spin-off! What is so awful about attending school with exclusively upper middle class kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids do not have interaction with kids in low socioeconomic level in school but they do in - sports, neighborhood, church, community center. So I think you are missing the point that my kids get this experience in other aspects of life.

I'm not the poster you're responding to (at least I think not), but if you're getting exposure to diverse SES in your neighborhood, then that's a totally different ballgame. Just curious, are you in a east of the part DC neighborhood but send your kids to a private? And what churches have a lot of SES diversity? (again, just curious)

As for the poster in the JKLMM schools, I think you're right, you're not going to get a ton of exposure to different SES in those schools either - the demographics of the neighborhoods dictate that (I imagine there is some diversity though, through the OB process, although it's not necessarily going to be much lower SES).

We are in MoCo - in a neighborhood where govt. subsidized housing is weaved into the neighborhood. The kids from those houses play basketball at the courts in the neighborhood and play at the playground.

I am not sure of the diversity in our church - I mean how much can you learn over a donut. But, we collect books and deliver them to kids in Southwestern Virginia to kids that can't afford books. We don't just drop and run so the kids get that experience.

My kids are also part of a program at the community center. I only know that the emotionally disabled kids attend this because my kid's public school friends told me - I guess they are in separate classes.

Also, I attended my H 25 yr reunion at one of these upper middle class schools and there were just as many teachers, military and cops as there were doctor, lawyers and indian chiefs.

Also, Gonzaga has a soup kitchen on the campus.

There is something called the Washington Jesuit Academy in DC (http://www.wjacademy.org/) - a fully funded middle school for at risk youths. Many of the schools that are regularly scorned on this web site raise money all year long to fund this free school. They have events like the Washington Jesuit Classic (Basketball and Lacrosse), alumni have fund raisers also - all proceeds go to this school.

I think there is a lot of imagining what goes on in these school that is not true. Also, I think there is an expectation for upper middle class kids to act better than the rest of the kids just because they have money. They are sometimes bratty and spoil - the expectations placed on them are unreasonable. If we placed judgements on public school kids the way you guys place judgement on private school kids it would be called bigotry.

The point of this post was not do rich kids play with poor kids. The point of this post was what is soooo awful about upper middle class schools. Nobody has really pointed out what is awful.

I challenge anybody to look deep inside themselves and explain why they get some sort of joy when they hear a private school kid got in a little or a lot of trouble or they see them smoking a cigarette at the mall with their blazer on. I mean what is that all about? Why do you hate these kids so much?

[Anonymous]

12:17 has got to be one of the most pointless and stupid posts on this thread, and that's saying a lot, because the bar on this thread is pretty low.

The limited topic of this thread is: is there diversity in private schools? Go back and read the header until this is clear to you.

Nobody on this thread has said that private schools are "sooo awful" like you say in para 3. Nobody "hates" private school kids like you say in your last para. My kids have attended private schools, and other posters say their kids have attended private schools -- we certainly don't hate our own kids! How the hell are you extrapolating these inferences from this discussion?

I think you completely missed the point of the poster you responded to (not me). In fact, I think you've missed the point of most of this thread.

We are saying private schools are good for many things, like small size -- BUT they don't have true diversity. Then the talk has gone on to if and how you can expose your private school kids to diversity.

In your real-life relationships, do you usually ignore what people are saying, and accuse them of things they never said? Do you react this emotionally in all your relationships?

To respond to the points you make. Do your kids actually play with the low-SES kids after they leave the sandbox? Because 2-3-4 year olds are too young to get this. Are your kids old enough to play with the kids on the basketball courts you mention, and do they play with them? Frankly, mentioning your kids donate to the Washington Jesuit Academy sounds like "let them eat bread" if your kids never visit the place. Throwing out a mention of Gonzaga's soup kitchen is stupid if your kids don't go to Gonzaga.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I think there is a lot of imagining what goes on in these school that is not true. Also, I think there is an expectation for upper middle class kids to act better than the rest of the kids just because they have money. They are sometimes bratty and spoil - the expectations placed on them are unreasonable. If we placed judgements on public school kids the way you guys place judgement on private school kids it would be called bigotry.

The point of this post was not do rich kids play with poor kids. The point of this post was what is soooo awful about upper middle class schools. Nobody has really pointed out what is awful.

I challenge anybody to look deep inside themselves and explain why they get some sort of joy when they hear a private school kid got in a little or a lot of trouble or they see them smoking a cigarette at the mall with their blazer on. I mean what is that all about? Why do you hate these kids so much?

This explains a lot. You've missed the point of the entire thread. Please read the header. And then go back and read the responses, and notice how people are responded to the subject header. You've apparently been carrying on a conversation about an issue that nobody else is talking about. Nobody hates upper middle class schools or the kids that attend them. Nobody was talking about that. They were talking about the very narrow issue of how to expose your kids to meaningful diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I send my kid to an ethnically diverse private school because it's a better school for child than the public school options I have. He is in K, and at his school, he is given on average 2 hours of outdoor free play/recess/PE PER DAY. He's not given homework, and the academic expectations are age-appropriate. The teachers are loving, observant, and extremely mindful to developing a curriculum that is appropriate. My son loves his school, and I am a big fan. I say this as a woman of color who is also an educator. There is extremely little economic diversity at his school, which is a negative factor, but all the other positives outweigh this aspect.

Ditto - except I am white - what is so awful about that?

That sound you hear is me banging my head against the table.

It's been said over and over on this thread, by me and by several others, that there is almost no socio-economic diversity in DC private schools. So when your kid befriends minorities at the private school, he or she is making friends kids who do have a different outlook, but minority kids from a lower social class often have a radically different outlook, different tastes in music, different goals in life (especially if college isn't affordable). Your kid will not meet these low-SES kids.

You mean, economic diversity, because there is arguably social diversity at DS's school. I'm the original PP, and I acknowledge the lack of economic diversity. But, I've also decided that the lack of economic diversity at this private school did not outweigh all the other positive factors that I find at DS's school. I don't think that it's wise to make a decision based upon any single factor. In fact, I think that it's pretty irresponsible to say that certain schools a superior to others simply due to evidence of economic diversity. You have to find the school that is right for your child. I know that my child would have hated school and been miserable in a DCPS system where there was PE offered once per week and 30 minutes of outdoor play daily.

[Anonymous]

"Socio-economic diversity" is a so-called "term of art" and refers to a whole range of social attributes that may come with lower income.

That said, I agree that choosing a school involves a number of factors, and the relative importance of any factor depends on the kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:12:17 has got to be one of the most pointless and stupid posts on this thread, and that's saying a lot, because the bar on this thread is pretty low.

The limited topic of this thread is: is there diversity in private schools? Go back and read the header until this is clear to you.

Nobody on this thread has said that private schools are "sooo awful" like you say in para 3. Nobody "hates" private school kids like you say in your last para. My kids have attended private schools, and other posters say their kids have attended private schools -- we certainly don't hate our own kids! How the hell are you extrapolating these inferences from this discussion?

I think you completely missed the point of the poster you responded to (not me). In fact, I think you've missed the point of most of this thread.

We are saying private schools are good for many things, like small size -- BUT they don't have true diversity. Then the talk has gone on to if and how you can expose your private school kids to diversity.

In your real-life relationships, do you usually ignore what people are saying, and accuse them of things they never said? Do you react this emotionally in all your relationships?

To respond to the points you make. Do your kids actually play with the low-SES kids after they leave the sandbox? Because 2-3-4 year olds are too young to get this. Are your kids old enough to play with the kids on the basketball courts you mention, and do they play with them? Frankly, mentioning your kids donate to the Washington Jesuit Academy sounds like "let them eat bread" if your kids never visit the place. Throwing out a mention of Gonzaga's soup kitchen is stupid if your kids don't go to Gonzaga.

Nice ad hominem statement.

Yes - there is diversity in private schools just not poor kids.
My real life relationships are rich which is why I don't depend on schools to provide low income kids for my kids to be "immunized" from.
Yes my kids play with anybody at the basketball courts (and since they don't go to public school - they don't know what lunch table they sit at).
Saying being a part of Jesuit fund raisers is like saying "let them eat bread" is crazy. It is like saying going to the Race for the Cure is like saying "let them eat chemotherapy" - Give me a break! We also say "let them read books"
Yes we are affiliated with Gonzaga. I think high school is age appropriate for soup kitchens - we are not at that point yet so I choose age appropriate ways to give back right now.

My kids have had multiple experiences of rude comments made to my children - mostly by adults - due to the sweatshirt they are wearing or because they wear a shirt and tie - it is obvious they go to private school. People are bitter and make assumptions - I did not say you are.

Just this weekend a prejudice statement was made on the sidelines of a soccer game about the hispanic team we were playing and my son said "Mrs. X - don't say that". It was a moment of great awkwardness followed by great pride.

We are all trying to raise our kids with compassion and kindness towards all people.

Have a nice day!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Nice ad hominem statement.

Yes - there is diversity in private schools just not poor kids.
My real life relationships are rich which is why I don't depend on schools to provide low income kids for my kids to be "immunized" from.
Yes my kids play with anybody at the basketball courts (and since they don't go to public school - they don't know what lunch table they sit at).
Saying being a part of Jesuit fund raisers is like saying "let them eat bread" is crazy. It is like saying going to the Race for the Cure is like saying "let them eat chemotherapy" - Give me a break! We also say "let them read books"
Yes we are affiliated with Gonzaga. I think high school is age appropriate for soup kitchens - we are not at that point yet so I choose age appropriate ways to give back right now.

My kids have had multiple experiences of rude comments made to my children - mostly by adults - due to the sweatshirt they are wearing or because they wear a shirt and tie - it is obvious they go to private school. People are bitter and make assumptions - I did not say you are.

Just this weekend a prejudice statement was made on the sidelines of a soccer game about the hispanic team we were playing and my son said "Mrs. X - don't say that". It was a moment of great awkwardness followed by great pride.

We are all trying to raise our kids with compassion and kindness towards all people.

Have a nice day!

Hopeless.

[Anonymous]

Working at a soup kitchen or holding a bake sale for children in South America is fine. However, these activities don't really encourage children to identify with, and understand, those eating at the soup kitchen or benefiting from the bake sale. It's nice to think of yourself as lord or lady bountiful swooping in to take care of those "less fortunate." However, many people want their children to interact with a diverse group of peers -- rich, not rich, black, white, Muslim, Christian, etc. -- in authentic settings where they are equal. School is a great place where this can occur, for many, many hours throughout the day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Working at a soup kitchen or holding a bake sale for children in South America is fine. However, these activities don't really encourage children to identify with, and understand, those eating at the soup kitchen or benefiting from the bake sale. It's nice to think of yourself as lord or lady bountiful swooping in to take care of those "less fortunate." However, many people want their children to interact with a diverse group of peers -- rich, not rich, black, white, Muslim, Christian, etc. -- in authentic settings where they are equal. School is a great place where this can occur, for many, many hours throughout the day.

GOOD LUCK finding a public school that will be able to address the extremely important issue of religious diversity in any meaningful way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Working at a soup kitchen or holding a bake sale for children in South America is fine. However, these activities don't really encourage children to identify with, and understand, those eating at the soup kitchen or benefiting from the bake sale. It's nice to think of yourself as lord or lady bountiful swooping in to take care of those "less fortunate." However, many people want their children to interact with a diverse group of peers -- rich, not rich, black, white, Muslim, Christian, etc. -- in authentic settings where they are equal. School is a great place where this can occur, for many, many hours throughout the day.

Hopeless

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Working at a soup kitchen or holding a bake sale for children in South America is fine. However, these activities don't really encourage children to identify with, and understand, those eating at the soup kitchen or benefiting from the bake sale. It's nice to think of yourself as lord or lady bountiful swooping in to take care of those "less fortunate." However, many people want their children to interact with a diverse group of peers -- rich, not rich, black, white, Muslim, Christian, etc. -- in authentic settings where they are equal. School is a great place where this can occur, for many, many hours throughout the day.

GOOD LUCK finding a public school that will be able to address the extremely important issue of religious diversity in any meaningful way.

Seriously? Public schools have tons of religious diversity, way more than privates. The muslim Somali kids are among the hardest-working kids in my DC's public middle school. And yes, these muslim kids are part of the honors and magnet programs, and my kid is interacting with them.

How many muslim kids are there in your private school? Two or three? There was one in my DC's private school, and that kid was only half muslim, and was being raised christian to boot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Working at a soup kitchen or holding a bake sale for children in South America is fine. However, these activities don't really encourage children to identify with, and understand, those eating at the soup kitchen or benefiting from the bake sale. It's nice to think of yourself as lord or lady bountiful swooping in to take care of those "less fortunate." However, many people want their children to interact with a diverse group of peers -- rich, not rich, black, white, Muslim, Christian, etc. -- in authentic settings where they are equal. School is a great place where this can occur, for many, many hours throughout the day.

I know! The whole noblesse oblige thing makes me laugh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
GOOD LUCK finding a public school that will be able to address the extremely important issue of religious diversity in any meaningful way.

The sheer idiocy of this statement is breath-taking!

[Anonymous]

To the PPs who are poo poo-ing the soup kitchens, what would you have these people do? You can use this hypothetical to answer.

Assume the Smith Family lives in-boundary for a JKLMM school. Also assume the Smith family can pay for all of their children to go to private school or they can send some or all to public school.

Public school would do little in terms of providing economic and, frankly, racial diversity because of the neighborhood it is in and because there are extremely few OOB spots.

Private school would provide little economic diversity (despite the fact that the Smiths do all they can to support financial aid), but would improve the racial and religious diversity.

The Smiths choose private school, but the Smiths also want their children to know that they have much to be thankful for. Should the Smiths:
A. Teach the kids about giving back and doing meaningful volunteering?
B. Not do anything to help others because the DCUMs say it looks like some noblesse oblige BS,
C. Send the kids to public anyway just so they can hopefully meet and befriend the one or two OOB kids in their grade, even though the grade has 125 kids in it?
D. Not teach them anything about others and let them find out for themselves people live in different ways than everyone in their school or neighborhood?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the PPs who are poo poo-ing the soup kitchens, what would you have these people do? You can use this hypothetical to answer.

Assume the Smith Family lives in-boundary for a JKLMM school. Also assume the Smith family can pay for all of their children to go to private school or they can send some or all to public school.

Public school would do little in terms of providing economic and, frankly, racial diversity because of the neighborhood it is in and because there are extremely few OOB spots.

Private school would provide little economic diversity (despite the fact that the Smiths do all they can to support financial aid), but would improve the racial and religious diversity.

The Smiths choose private school, but the Smiths also want their children to know that they have much to be thankful for. Should the Smiths:
A. Teach the kids about giving back and doing meaningful volunteering?
B. Not do anything to help others because the DCUMs say it looks like some noblesse oblige BS,
C. Send the kids to public anyway just so they can hopefully meet and befriend the one or two OOB kids in their grade, even though the grade has 125 kids in it?
D. Not teach them anything about others and let them find out for themselves people live in different ways than everyone in their school or neighborhood?

The problem in your scenario is that the parents themselves are not living their lives in a way that enables authentic relationships with people of different races and SES. If kids live in an all white expensive neighborhood, and their parents don't have friends or relatives of other races or economic circumstances, and they don't worship somewhere where they will meet those people, then their experiences of diversity will always be a bit like a trip to see amueum exhibit.