Why do Disney vacationers seem uniquely subjected to social vitriol?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disney adults have main character syndrome. They act inappropriately in the parks with performative crying during character greets, trying to get attention, demanding special pixie dusting from cast members. They pretend that the characters and stories are real, which is what 4 year olds do, but adults should know it’s not real. It’s a weird form of escapism from the adult world. And now Disney has leaned into catering to this population. They aren’t going to the rides and attractions that normally were popular with adults at Disney world and are crowding the kid rides and activities.

You wouldn’t know any of this if you don’t follow them on social media making you part of the problem. I don’t use social media (except DCUM) and have no idea what you are even talking about.

All you had to do was go to Disney world to see it. Hugging and crying and jumping up and down when Minnie Mouse appears isn’t normal.

These people also shove past kids, push them out of the way, and stand in front of them during fireworks. That’s why I don’t feel bad when dads put kids on their shoulders and block the views of people who do this crap.

Pushing and shoving is wrong at any age. But kids don’t “own” Disney, much to your obvious dismay.

No they don’t, which is why I don’t care when they get their view blocked so actual kids can see.

Ooh! You really showed them!

In what way? I can laugh from afar at the disappointment at not being able to see the fireworks show for the 39th time because a kid blocked their view.

Didn’t happen. Many Disney regulars don’t care about fireworks because they know it’s a secret time with shorter lines. And regulars who do care about a food view of fireworks know when and where to stake out a front row spot that won’t be obstructed by shoulder kids. The only people obstructed by your kid were other normal families who didn’t know any better. No “Disney Adult” stands 3 rows back for fireworks and expects an unobstructed view.

No way. The regulars are the ones who know to stake out their spot 2 hours in advance. Nobody else wants to waste 2 hours of park time. The season pass people show up just to do that and don’t care because they will be back in a few days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you took away all their photos and social media the luster would be gone for them. They seem to want to be this way for online bragging rights?

It would be an amazing social experiment to black box anyone having an experience. You get to have the experience, but no recording. Still happy?

+1

I think this is a huge part of it. Camera phones + SM have changed a lot of things, and Disney parks are a flashpoint.

And to be fair it's not just Disney. I'm the poster who's been to the Netherlands a lot for work and family and the number of people who go into Mauritshuis just to get in a line to take a picture with Girl with a Pearl Earring and then leave is pretty sad. I'm not sure they even look at the painting.

I also think Disney is trading in nostalgia from being better when people were kids, so they get the warm fuzzies. I remember just how amazing that puppet parade they had at EPCOT was. So they're trading off nostalgia for adults while not actually building those fundamental experiences with today's kids.

What are these puppets you keep talking about?

The millennium puppet parade. I grew up in Orlando and back then Disney had a lot of opportunities to go for free (my choir and band performed a lot and they'd give us free tickets). My younger sibling got to dance with the puppets.

When I worked at Disney we also had a roving talking robot in our section (a guy dressed as a tourist was secretly controlling it from a few feet away).

Back then was like 30 years ago. No wonder you seem so out of touch.

A) Again, I kept season status going for quite a while when I visited home and B) I still know people who work there because some of my work friends stayed on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you took away all their photos and social media the luster would be gone for them. They seem to want to be this way for online bragging rights?

It would be an amazing social experiment to black box anyone having an experience. You get to have the experience, but no recording. Still happy?

+1

I think this is a huge part of it. Camera phones + SM have changed a lot of things, and Disney parks are a flashpoint.

And to be fair it's not just Disney. I'm the poster who's been to the Netherlands a lot for work and family and the number of people who go into Mauritshuis just to get in a line to take a picture with Girl with a Pearl Earring and then leave is pretty sad. I'm not sure they even look at the painting.

I also think Disney is trading in nostalgia from being better when people were kids, so they get the warm fuzzies. I remember just how amazing that puppet parade they had at EPCOT was. So they're trading off nostalgia for adults while not actually building those fundamental experiences with today's kids.

What are these puppets you keep talking about?

The millennium puppet parade. I grew up in Orlando and back then Disney had a lot of opportunities to go for free (my choir and band performed a lot and they'd give us free tickets). My younger sibling got to dance with the puppets.

When I worked at Disney we also had a roving talking robot in our section (a guy dressed as a tourist was secretly controlling it from a few feet away).

Back then was like 30 years ago. No wonder you seem so out of touch.

A) Again, I kept season status going for quite a while when I visited home and B) I still know people who work there because some of my work friends stayed on.

You’re the fool who was insisting that you had to book restaurants “6 months in advance!” Again and again. You know nothing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

You chose a city with fewer attractions so it was easier to navigate. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. The point about the Disney top rides is that they are the top rides in the world - Guardians of the Galaxy is a $1 billion dollar marvel of engineering and entertainment. So yes it is worth doing the (tiny) amount of planning - likely no different than going to the Eiffel Tower - to ride it. There are like 2 rides at Disney that require that level of planning (Guardians and Slinky) and if you like rides the effort is 100% worth it. You’re comparing apples and oranges and declaring oranges superior. There is zero comparison between Guardians of the Galaxy and having a cookie in a suburban Dutch town.

NP. I vote for the cookie in Leiden any day.

Borrrring

If you've never had a fresh stroopwaffle, you're missing out. A dole whip doesn't come close.

Sure keep telling yourself that your kids really had SO MUCH FUN eating a fresh stroopwaffle in Leiden - they would definitely not have enjoyed Disneyworld at all. Maybe the history of stroopwaffle will become their area of special interest for their college applications in 10 years. Good to think ahead.

This is so deranged.

Also, I have taken my kid to Disney. He's had dole whip. Again, I used to work at the Magic Kingdom. The cult attitude toward basic Disney stuff like soft serve and hot dogs is so bizarre.

To be clear my comment was not about dole whip in isolation. It was about fooling yourself into thinking your kids would rather have a local cookie in a suburban Dutch city than go to Disneyworld.

I mean, literally yes? Because my kid wants to visit his cousins. My kid hasn't asked to go back to Disney.

Not really the flex you think it is.

A lot of kids do grow out of Disney but you shouldn’t discourage your kid from liking kid things.

Sounds like the kid is an only and has to enjoy what his parents want to do because they aren’t into kids.

As a former Disney employee, this is actually more what adults do to their kids. The kid would rather just have pool time or feed popcorn to a bird and the parent is stressing out about making sure their kid rides Haunted Mansion or whatever. And then they get upset when their kid isn't enjoying every second because mom and dad paid so much money to be there.

Then my colleagues and I would swoop in with our little games, pins, and stickers to diffuse the situation. It was surprisingly effective.

That’s because the parents want their money’s worth. It’s not a bad deal when you can spend 12 hours there. But this is vacationing with kids no matter where you go. There are highs and lows and most people look back and remember the highs. They block out the tantrums at the airport, the diaper blowout on the plane, the cold they caught on the way, the food poisoning and sunburns, etc.

And I'll tell anyone who takes their kid to Disney, there is no getting your money's worth, not at the expense of your kids. The money is spent and screaming at your kids isn't going to make the vacation any better. I've seen melt down after meltdown of overtired, hot kids and parents who get upset their kid isn't grateful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you took away all their photos and social media the luster would be gone for them. They seem to want to be this way for online bragging rights?

It would be an amazing social experiment to black box anyone having an experience. You get to have the experience, but no recording. Still happy?

+1

I think this is a huge part of it. Camera phones + SM have changed a lot of things, and Disney parks are a flashpoint.

And to be fair it's not just Disney. I'm the poster who's been to the Netherlands a lot for work and family and the number of people who go into Mauritshuis just to get in a line to take a picture with Girl with a Pearl Earring and then leave is pretty sad. I'm not sure they even look at the painting.

I also think Disney is trading in nostalgia from being better when people were kids, so they get the warm fuzzies. I remember just how amazing that puppet parade they had at EPCOT was. So they're trading off nostalgia for adults while not actually building those fundamental experiences with today's kids.

What are these puppets you keep talking about?

The millennium puppet parade. I grew up in Orlando and back then Disney had a lot of opportunities to go for free (my choir and band performed a lot and they'd give us free tickets). My younger sibling got to dance with the puppets.

When I worked at Disney we also had a roving talking robot in our section (a guy dressed as a tourist was secretly controlling it from a few feet away).

Back then was like 30 years ago. No wonder you seem so out of touch.

A) Again, I kept season status going for quite a while when I visited home and B) I still know people who work there because some of my work friends stayed on.

Your work friends who “stayed on” are just another form of Disney Adults. Which I have no problem with, btw.

[Anonymous]

If Disney wants to max profits, why aren’t they getting rid of the cheaper pixie passes and Florida resident passes? Out of state guests spend more because they come less often. Local guests go nonstop and spend less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

You chose a city with fewer attractions so it was easier to navigate. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. The point about the Disney top rides is that they are the top rides in the world - Guardians of the Galaxy is a $1 billion dollar marvel of engineering and entertainment. So yes it is worth doing the (tiny) amount of planning - likely no different than going to the Eiffel Tower - to ride it. There are like 2 rides at Disney that require that level of planning (Guardians and Slinky) and if you like rides the effort is 100% worth it. You’re comparing apples and oranges and declaring oranges superior. There is zero comparison between Guardians of the Galaxy and having a cookie in a suburban Dutch town.

NP. I vote for the cookie in Leiden any day.

Borrrring

If you've never had a fresh stroopwaffle, you're missing out. A dole whip doesn't come close.

Sure keep telling yourself that your kids really had SO MUCH FUN eating a fresh stroopwaffle in Leiden - they would definitely not have enjoyed Disneyworld at all. Maybe the history of stroopwaffle will become their area of special interest for their college applications in 10 years. Good to think ahead.

This is so deranged.

Also, I have taken my kid to Disney. He's had dole whip. Again, I used to work at the Magic Kingdom. The cult attitude toward basic Disney stuff like soft serve and hot dogs is so bizarre.

To be clear my comment was not about dole whip in isolation. It was about fooling yourself into thinking your kids would rather have a local cookie in a suburban Dutch city than go to Disneyworld.

I mean, literally yes? Because my kid wants to visit his cousins. My kid hasn't asked to go back to Disney.

Not really the flex you think it is.

A lot of kids do grow out of Disney but you shouldn’t discourage your kid from liking kid things.

Sounds like the kid is an only and has to enjoy what his parents want to do because they aren’t into kids.

As a former Disney employee, this is actually more what adults do to their kids. The kid would rather just have pool time or feed popcorn to a bird and the parent is stressing out about making sure their kid rides Haunted Mansion or whatever. And then they get upset when their kid isn't enjoying every second because mom and dad paid so much money to be there.

Then my colleagues and I would swoop in with our little games, pins, and stickers to diffuse the situation. It was surprisingly effective.

That’s because the parents want their money’s worth. It’s not a bad deal when you can spend 12 hours there. But this is vacationing with kids no matter where you go. There are highs and lows and most people look back and remember the highs. They block out the tantrums at the airport, the diaper blowout on the plane, the cold they caught on the way, the food poisoning and sunburns, etc.

And I'll tell anyone who takes their kid to Disney, there is no getting your money's worth, not at the expense of your kids. The money is spent and screaming at your kids isn't going to make the vacation any better. I've seen melt down after meltdown of overtired, hot kids and parents who get upset their kid isn't grateful.

That’s kids these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

You chose a city with fewer attractions so it was easier to navigate. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. The point about the Disney top rides is that they are the top rides in the world - Guardians of the Galaxy is a $1 billion dollar marvel of engineering and entertainment. So yes it is worth doing the (tiny) amount of planning - likely no different than going to the Eiffel Tower - to ride it. There are like 2 rides at Disney that require that level of planning (Guardians and Slinky) and if you like rides the effort is 100% worth it. You’re comparing apples and oranges and declaring oranges superior. There is zero comparison between Guardians of the Galaxy and having a cookie in a suburban Dutch town.

NP. I vote for the cookie in Leiden any day.

Borrrring

If you've never had a fresh stroopwaffle, you're missing out. A dole whip doesn't come close.

Sure keep telling yourself that your kids really had SO MUCH FUN eating a fresh stroopwaffle in Leiden - they would definitely not have enjoyed Disneyworld at all. Maybe the history of stroopwaffle will become their area of special interest for their college applications in 10 years. Good to think ahead.

This is so deranged.

Also, I have taken my kid to Disney. He's had dole whip. Again, I used to work at the Magic Kingdom. The cult attitude toward basic Disney stuff like soft serve and hot dogs is so bizarre.

To be clear my comment was not about dole whip in isolation. It was about fooling yourself into thinking your kids would rather have a local cookie in a suburban Dutch city than go to Disneyworld.

I mean, literally yes? Because my kid wants to visit his cousins. My kid hasn't asked to go back to Disney.

Not really the flex you think it is.

A lot of kids do grow out of Disney but you shouldn’t discourage your kid from liking kid things.

Sounds like the kid is an only and has to enjoy what his parents want to do because they aren’t into kids.

As a former Disney employee, this is actually more what adults do to their kids. The kid would rather just have pool time or feed popcorn to a bird and the parent is stressing out about making sure their kid rides Haunted Mansion or whatever. And then they get upset when their kid isn't enjoying every second because mom and dad paid so much money to be there.

Then my colleagues and I would swoop in with our little games, pins, and stickers to diffuse the situation. It was surprisingly effective.

That’s because the parents want their money’s worth. It’s not a bad deal when you can spend 12 hours there. But this is vacationing with kids no matter where you go. There are highs and lows and most people look back and remember the highs. They block out the tantrums at the airport, the diaper blowout on the plane, the cold they caught on the way, the food poisoning and sunburns, etc.

And I'll tell anyone who takes their kid to Disney, there is no getting your money's worth, not at the expense of your kids. The money is spent and screaming at your kids isn't going to make the vacation any better. I've seen melt down after meltdown of overtired, hot kids and parents who get upset their kid isn't grateful.

Ok. But that isn’t the fault of Disney or Disney Adults. That’s the fault of the parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you took away all their photos and social media the luster would be gone for them. They seem to want to be this way for online bragging rights?

It would be an amazing social experiment to black box anyone having an experience. You get to have the experience, but no recording. Still happy?

+1

I think this is a huge part of it. Camera phones + SM have changed a lot of things, and Disney parks are a flashpoint.

And to be fair it's not just Disney. I'm the poster who's been to the Netherlands a lot for work and family and the number of people who go into Mauritshuis just to get in a line to take a picture with Girl with a Pearl Earring and then leave is pretty sad. I'm not sure they even look at the painting.

I also think Disney is trading in nostalgia from being better when people were kids, so they get the warm fuzzies. I remember just how amazing that puppet parade they had at EPCOT was. So they're trading off nostalgia for adults while not actually building those fundamental experiences with today's kids.

What are these puppets you keep talking about?

The millennium puppet parade. I grew up in Orlando and back then Disney had a lot of opportunities to go for free (my choir and band performed a lot and they'd give us free tickets). My younger sibling got to dance with the puppets.

When I worked at Disney we also had a roving talking robot in our section (a guy dressed as a tourist was secretly controlling it from a few feet away).

Back then was like 30 years ago. No wonder you seem so out of touch.

A) Again, I kept season status going for quite a while when I visited home and B) I still know people who work there because some of my work friends stayed on.

You’re the fool who was insisting that you had to book restaurants “6 months in advance!” Again and again. You know nothing.

Good lord, it was absolutely true for certain things for a while (Be Our Guest when it first opened?). Being pedantic isn't cute.

I mean if you want to see why people hate Disney adults, this right here. We got harassed by people like this all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If Disney wants to max profits, why aren’t they getting rid of the cheaper pixie passes and Florida resident passes? Out of state guests spend more because they come less often. Local guests go nonstop and spend less.

Clearly they decided the resident passes are still profitable. And out of state guests with property in Florida can still buy the discounted passes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you took away all their photos and social media the luster would be gone for them. They seem to want to be this way for online bragging rights?

It would be an amazing social experiment to black box anyone having an experience. You get to have the experience, but no recording. Still happy?

+1

I think this is a huge part of it. Camera phones + SM have changed a lot of things, and Disney parks are a flashpoint.

And to be fair it's not just Disney. I'm the poster who's been to the Netherlands a lot for work and family and the number of people who go into Mauritshuis just to get in a line to take a picture with Girl with a Pearl Earring and then leave is pretty sad. I'm not sure they even look at the painting.

I also think Disney is trading in nostalgia from being better when people were kids, so they get the warm fuzzies. I remember just how amazing that puppet parade they had at EPCOT was. So they're trading off nostalgia for adults while not actually building those fundamental experiences with today's kids.

What are these puppets you keep talking about?

The millennium puppet parade. I grew up in Orlando and back then Disney had a lot of opportunities to go for free (my choir and band performed a lot and they'd give us free tickets). My younger sibling got to dance with the puppets.

When I worked at Disney we also had a roving talking robot in our section (a guy dressed as a tourist was secretly controlling it from a few feet away).

Back then was like 30 years ago. No wonder you seem so out of touch.

A) Again, I kept season status going for quite a while when I visited home and B) I still know people who work there because some of my work friends stayed on.

Your work friends who “stayed on” are just another form of Disney Adults. Which I have no problem with, btw.

I mean, not really. The union used to make Disney benefits decent if you managed to get full time. Getting full time was pretty difficult, however.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you took away all their photos and social media the luster would be gone for them. They seem to want to be this way for online bragging rights?

It would be an amazing social experiment to black box anyone having an experience. You get to have the experience, but no recording. Still happy?

+1

I think this is a huge part of it. Camera phones + SM have changed a lot of things, and Disney parks are a flashpoint.

And to be fair it's not just Disney. I'm the poster who's been to the Netherlands a lot for work and family and the number of people who go into Mauritshuis just to get in a line to take a picture with Girl with a Pearl Earring and then leave is pretty sad. I'm not sure they even look at the painting.

I also think Disney is trading in nostalgia from being better when people were kids, so they get the warm fuzzies. I remember just how amazing that puppet parade they had at EPCOT was. So they're trading off nostalgia for adults while not actually building those fundamental experiences with today's kids.

What are these puppets you keep talking about?

The millennium puppet parade. I grew up in Orlando and back then Disney had a lot of opportunities to go for free (my choir and band performed a lot and they'd give us free tickets). My younger sibling got to dance with the puppets.

When I worked at Disney we also had a roving talking robot in our section (a guy dressed as a tourist was secretly controlling it from a few feet away).

Back then was like 30 years ago. No wonder you seem so out of touch.

A) Again, I kept season status going for quite a while when I visited home and B) I still know people who work there because some of my work friends stayed on.

You’re the fool who was insisting that you had to book restaurants “6 months in advance!” Again and again. You know nothing.

Good lord, it was absolutely true for certain things for a while (Be Our Guest when it first opened?). Being pedantic isn't cute.

I mean if you want to see why people hate Disney adults, this right here. We got harassed by people like this all the time.

DP here. I don’t think it’s “pedantic.” You are trying to act like an expert while judging Disney Adults but also revealing your information is very outdated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

You chose a city with fewer attractions so it was easier to navigate. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. The point about the Disney top rides is that they are the top rides in the world - Guardians of the Galaxy is a $1 billion dollar marvel of engineering and entertainment. So yes it is worth doing the (tiny) amount of planning - likely no different than going to the Eiffel Tower - to ride it. There are like 2 rides at Disney that require that level of planning (Guardians and Slinky) and if you like rides the effort is 100% worth it. You’re comparing apples and oranges and declaring oranges superior. There is zero comparison between Guardians of the Galaxy and having a cookie in a suburban Dutch town.

NP. I vote for the cookie in Leiden any day.

Borrrring

If you've never had a fresh stroopwaffle, you're missing out. A dole whip doesn't come close.

Sure keep telling yourself that your kids really had SO MUCH FUN eating a fresh stroopwaffle in Leiden - they would definitely not have enjoyed Disneyworld at all. Maybe the history of stroopwaffle will become their area of special interest for their college applications in 10 years. Good to think ahead.

This is so deranged.

Also, I have taken my kid to Disney. He's had dole whip. Again, I used to work at the Magic Kingdom. The cult attitude toward basic Disney stuff like soft serve and hot dogs is so bizarre.

To be clear my comment was not about dole whip in isolation. It was about fooling yourself into thinking your kids would rather have a local cookie in a suburban Dutch city than go to Disneyworld.

I mean, literally yes? Because my kid wants to visit his cousins. My kid hasn't asked to go back to Disney.

Not really the flex you think it is.

A lot of kids do grow out of Disney but you shouldn’t discourage your kid from liking kid things.

Sounds like the kid is an only and has to enjoy what his parents want to do because they aren’t into kids.

As a former Disney employee, this is actually more what adults do to their kids. The kid would rather just have pool time or feed popcorn to a bird and the parent is stressing out about making sure their kid rides Haunted Mansion or whatever. And then they get upset when their kid isn't enjoying every second because mom and dad paid so much money to be there.

Then my colleagues and I would swoop in with our little games, pins, and stickers to diffuse the situation. It was surprisingly effective.

As you say, many of them would prefer the pool.

We never took our kids because a family at school described a miserable experience queueing all day for three rides with their kids pleading to go back to the hotel to play in the pool.

We did take them to real medieval castles to play with catapults and bows and arrows, and to the Great Barrier Reef to see the sealife, and to mountains around the world to ski.

Now that they are adults, they haven't taken themselves to Disney World, so don't seem too emotionally deprived

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

You chose a city with fewer attractions so it was easier to navigate. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. The point about the Disney top rides is that they are the top rides in the world - Guardians of the Galaxy is a $1 billion dollar marvel of engineering and entertainment. So yes it is worth doing the (tiny) amount of planning - likely no different than going to the Eiffel Tower - to ride it. There are like 2 rides at Disney that require that level of planning (Guardians and Slinky) and if you like rides the effort is 100% worth it. You’re comparing apples and oranges and declaring oranges superior. There is zero comparison between Guardians of the Galaxy and having a cookie in a suburban Dutch town.

NP. I vote for the cookie in Leiden any day.

Borrrring

If you've never had a fresh stroopwaffle, you're missing out. A dole whip doesn't come close.

Sure keep telling yourself that your kids really had SO MUCH FUN eating a fresh stroopwaffle in Leiden - they would definitely not have enjoyed Disneyworld at all. Maybe the history of stroopwaffle will become their area of special interest for their college applications in 10 years. Good to think ahead.

This is so deranged.

Also, I have taken my kid to Disney. He's had dole whip. Again, I used to work at the Magic Kingdom. The cult attitude toward basic Disney stuff like soft serve and hot dogs is so bizarre.

To be clear my comment was not about dole whip in isolation. It was about fooling yourself into thinking your kids would rather have a local cookie in a suburban Dutch city than go to Disneyworld.

I mean, literally yes? Because my kid wants to visit his cousins. My kid hasn't asked to go back to Disney.

Not really the flex you think it is.

A lot of kids do grow out of Disney but you shouldn’t discourage your kid from liking kid things.

Sounds like the kid is an only and has to enjoy what his parents want to do because they aren’t into kids.

As a former Disney employee, this is actually more what adults do to their kids. The kid would rather just have pool time or feed popcorn to a bird and the parent is stressing out about making sure their kid rides Haunted Mansion or whatever. And then they get upset when their kid isn't enjoying every second because mom and dad paid so much money to be there.

Then my colleagues and I would swoop in with our little games, pins, and stickers to diffuse the situation. It was surprisingly effective.

As you say, many of them would prefer the pool.

We never took our kids because a family at school described a miserable experience queueing all day for three rides with their kids pleading to go back to the hotel to play in the pool.

We did take them to real medieval castles to play with catapults and bows and arrows, and to the Great Barrier Reef to see the sealife, and to mountains around the world to ski.

Now that they are adults, they haven't taken themselves to Disney World, so don't seem too emotionally deprived

So you are judging something you haven’t tried.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you took away all their photos and social media the luster would be gone for them. They seem to want to be this way for online bragging rights?

It would be an amazing social experiment to black box anyone having an experience. You get to have the experience, but no recording. Still happy?

+1

I think this is a huge part of it. Camera phones + SM have changed a lot of things, and Disney parks are a flashpoint.

And to be fair it's not just Disney. I'm the poster who's been to the Netherlands a lot for work and family and the number of people who go into Mauritshuis just to get in a line to take a picture with Girl with a Pearl Earring and then leave is pretty sad. I'm not sure they even look at the painting.

I also think Disney is trading in nostalgia from being better when people were kids, so they get the warm fuzzies. I remember just how amazing that puppet parade they had at EPCOT was. So they're trading off nostalgia for adults while not actually building those fundamental experiences with today's kids.

What are these puppets you keep talking about?

The millennium puppet parade. I grew up in Orlando and back then Disney had a lot of opportunities to go for free (my choir and band performed a lot and they'd give us free tickets). My younger sibling got to dance with the puppets.

When I worked at Disney we also had a roving talking robot in our section (a guy dressed as a tourist was secretly controlling it from a few feet away).

Back then was like 30 years ago. No wonder you seem so out of touch.

A) Again, I kept season status going for quite a while when I visited home and B) I still know people who work there because some of my work friends stayed on.

You’re the fool who was insisting that you had to book restaurants “6 months in advance!” Again and again. You know nothing.

Good lord, it was absolutely true for certain things for a while (Be Our Guest when it first opened?). Being pedantic isn't cute.

I mean if you want to see why people hate Disney adults, this right here. We got harassed by people like this all the time.

DP here. I don’t think it’s “pedantic.” You are trying to act like an expert while judging Disney Adults but also revealing your information is very outdated.

Denying the Enshittification is a bizarre take. I'm in a position to be familiar with the decline basically over decades. It accelerated significantly post COVID.

Again what we're conveying is Disney is taking away things that made the parks better while asking you to pay more and more money. And pay for things that used to be free.

You want to buy into that, fine.