Child struggling to decide UVA vs UMich

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t need to go off of who you know or car stickers. There is data on this. % of undergrads ending up in the DMV:

Ross: 3.8%
McIntire: 31.85%

Ford: not listed in the destinations above 10% (though grad is higher)
Batten: 75%

And so on.

Where are you getting your data? Not that I disbelieve you. I’m just curious.

Ross: https://michiganross.umich.edu/undergraduate/bba/careers/employment-data
McIntire: https://destinations.mcintire.virginia.edu/bs-commerce
Ford: https://careercenter.umich.edu/article/first-destination-profile
Batten: https://batten.virginia.edu/careers/career-services/employment-outcomes

Some of these don’t work well on mobile so you have to use desktop. For the UVA ones, you usually have to sum the different DMV locations (ie, they break it out by DC, Arlington, Tysons, etc.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don’t need to go off of who you know or car stickers. There is data on this. % of undergrads ending up in the DMV:

Ross: 3.8%
McIntire: 31.85%

Ford: not listed in the destinations above 10% (though grad is higher)
Batten: 75%

And so on.

and then multiply by the class size...

do they not teach math at UVA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don’t need to go off of who you know or car stickers. There is data on this. % of undergrads ending up in the DMV:

Ross: 3.8%
McIntire: 31.85%

Ford: not listed in the destinations above 10% (though grad is higher)
Batten: 75%

And so on.

So there are UM grads in DC and this doesn't account for LSA or the other colleges, nor is it weighted. Case closed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t need to go off of who you know or car stickers. There is data on this. % of undergrads ending up in the DMV:

Ross: 3.8%
McIntire: 31.85%

Ford: not listed in the destinations above 10% (though grad is higher)
Batten: 75%

And so on.

and then multiply by the class size...

do they not teach math at UVA?

They do. Do you think that Ross is over 8 times the size of McIntire, or similar for Ford?

Please tell us where you got your sterling math skills. And those outstanding critical thinking skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t need to go off of who you know or car stickers. There is data on this. % of undergrads ending up in the DMV:

Ross: 3.8%
McIntire: 31.85%

Ford: not listed in the destinations above 10% (though grad is higher)
Batten: 75%

And so on.

So there are UM grads in DC and this doesn't account for LSA or the other colleges, nor is it weighted. Case closed.

No one on this thread ever said there were zero UM grads in DC. A few said they hadn’t met any UM grads to highlight their main point, which is that the alumni network of UVA is much bigger here than UM, and that does indeed seem to be true. The percentages of UM grads landing here is small (it also doesn’t show up on the LSA list which goes as low as 6.4%, so it is below that). Weighting it doesn’t meaningfully change the result as the gap is so large.

I didn’t attend either of these schools. But it’s weird to try to imply that UM has the same alumni network here as UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t need to go off of who you know or car stickers. There is data on this. % of undergrads ending up in the DMV:

Ross: 3.8%
McIntire: 31.85%

Ford: not listed in the destinations above 10% (though grad is higher)
Batten: 75%

And so on.

So there are UM grads in DC and this doesn't account for LSA or the other colleges, nor is it weighted. Case closed.

No one on this thread ever said there were zero UM grads in DC. A few said they hadn’t met any UM grads to highlight their main point, which is that the alumni network of UVA is much bigger here than UM, and that does indeed seem to be true. The percentages of UM grads landing here is small (it also doesn’t show up on the LSA list which goes as low as 6.4%, so it is below that). Weighting it doesn’t meaningfully change the result as the gap is so large.

I didn’t attend either of these schools. But it’s weird to try to imply that UM has the same alumni network here as UVA.

Such a weird flex for someone who has no dog in this fight, or....



p.s. My takeaway is that UVA is indeed a regional school, which I didn't realize prior. Thanks for clarifying!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobel Prize winners don't teach undergraduates. They have zero impact on undergraduate life. PhD candidates will interact with them.

There's a reason the "NL Reserved" parking spots at Berkley are talked about. The only way to see a Nobel winner is to see them getting into or out of their car.

That’s not true. I literally took an undergrad class at Cal taught by a Nobel laureate.

How did it compare to your other undergrad classes at Cal?

I actually never understand why so many parents still have the high school mindset for college. The whole point of going to college is to get inspired in different aspects, including academically. So even though the dude may not be a “good teacher” according to the standard on here, I got what I wanted from his class. My best teacher was a young guy who ended up becoming super famous later. So in a place like Cal with tippy top academic research, even if you’re not taught by existing Nobel prize winners, you’re likely taught by *future* Nobel laureates and Fields medalists. Heck, my buddy took Calc from the dude who was instrumental in proving the final correct version of Fermat’s Last Theorem!

This brings up a related point about UMich vs UVA. No doubt UMich is in a higher league overall in terms of faculty research. As someone who has lived in different states and countries, most in other states/countries know about UMich’s high reputation, but UVA is rather overrated in the DMV area (same for UMD). If your kid has the potential to do well in a top school, pick UMich; if she needs more handholding, then perhaps UVA is the choice!

lol. Says the person who never attended UVA, nor has a child there! Proof please!

You’re right, I only have had personal experience with HYPSM and a few other top 20 (non-Michigan) colleges, but had indirect experience with schools below the top 20 (including UVA). But doesn’t it make my judgement more objective and non-provincial?

[Anonymous]

UVA if in state and the student doesn’t have a specific location preference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t need to go off of who you know or car stickers. There is data on this. % of undergrads ending up in the DMV:

Ross: 3.8%
McIntire: 31.85%

Ford: not listed in the destinations above 10% (though grad is higher)
Batten: 75%

And so on.

So there are UM grads in DC and this doesn't account for LSA or the other colleges, nor is it weighted. Case closed.

No one on this thread ever said there were zero UM grads in DC. A few said they hadn’t met any UM grads to highlight their main point, which is that the alumni network of UVA is much bigger here than UM, and that does indeed seem to be true. The percentages of UM grads landing here is small (it also doesn’t show up on the LSA list which goes as low as 6.4%, so it is below that). Weighting it doesn’t meaningfully change the result as the gap is so large.

I didn’t attend either of these schools. But it’s weird to try to imply that UM has the same alumni network here as UVA.

Such a weird flex for someone who has no dog in this fight, or....



p.s. My takeaway is that UVA is indeed a regional school, which I didn't realize prior. Thanks for clarifying!

No flex in sharing easily-findable data when people are weirdly debating based on vibes and bumper stickers.

No flex in a school being over represented in its largest nearby metro area. This is true of nearly every school. You find the same thing with UM and Chicago as you do with UVA and DC.

Not sure why you are so insecure about this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t need to go off of who you know or car stickers. There is data on this. % of undergrads ending up in the DMV:

Ross: 3.8%
McIntire: 31.85%

Ford: not listed in the destinations above 10% (though grad is higher)
Batten: 75%

And so on.

So there are UM grads in DC and this doesn't account for LSA or the other colleges, nor is it weighted. Case closed.

No one on this thread ever said there were zero UM grads in DC. A few said they hadn’t met any UM grads to highlight their main point, which is that the alumni network of UVA is much bigger here than UM, and that does indeed seem to be true. The percentages of UM grads landing here is small (it also doesn’t show up on the LSA list which goes as low as 6.4%, so it is below that). Weighting it doesn’t meaningfully change the result as the gap is so large.

I didn’t attend either of these schools. But it’s weird to try to imply that UM has the same alumni network here as UVA.

Such a weird flex for someone who has no dog in this fight, or....



p.s. My takeaway is that UVA is indeed a regional school, which I didn't realize prior. Thanks for clarifying!

People seem incapable of understanding nuance or even reason. No UVA is not a regional school. Every school - including the top ones - are going to have stronger representation in their region. I'm sure Stanford does fine and is represented in NYC but it's not going to rival Yale. Just as Yale does fine and is represented in San Fran but isn't going to rival Stanford there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t need to go off of who you know or car stickers. There is data on this. % of undergrads ending up in the DMV:

Ross: 3.8%
McIntire: 31.85%

Ford: not listed in the destinations above 10% (though grad is higher)
Batten: 75%

And so on.

So there are UM grads in DC and this doesn't account for LSA or the other colleges, nor is it weighted. Case closed.

No one on this thread ever said there were zero UM grads in DC. A few said they hadn’t met any UM grads to highlight their main point, which is that the alumni network of UVA is much bigger here than UM, and that does indeed seem to be true. The percentages of UM grads landing here is small (it also doesn’t show up on the LSA list which goes as low as 6.4%, so it is below that). Weighting it doesn’t meaningfully change the result as the gap is so large.

I didn’t attend either of these schools. But it’s weird to try to imply that UM has the same alumni network here as UVA.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will add that another factor is where your kid wants to live after college if they have any idea. UVA is great if want to stay in VA or DC area. So many alums, so many connections. I went to UVA for grad school and it's far more valuable to me in this area (DMV) than my underegrad alma mater even though undergrad was more prestigious. I either have personal connections or have an instant bond with fellow alums if meeting for the first time. Plus everyone already knows and respects the degree. I imagine it's the same for UMich in Chicago or Detroit but I don't live there so I can't say.

This is such a weird, tired argument. There are TONS of UM alum in DC. DH is an alum and kids went to JKLM school and so many parents sport UM gear. DC graduated 2 years ago, works in DC, and knows tons of UM friends here (some from DC originally, but not all).

UM has a huge alumni network in DC. They just did a private tour of the Air & Space museum last weekend.

I don't recall ever seeing U Mich gear in DMV, or meeting a U Mich grad. I see UVA gear All The Time and meet UVA grads all the time, or read about them in the news, see eg our new VA Gov.

You can't truly think that U Mich rivals UVA for alum network in VA/DC.

Really?!? You never see Michigan gear in the DMV? It’s everywhere. We live in NWDC and know many more Michigan grads than UVA grads. Of my kid’s class at a well known private HS, I can think of 9 families where at least one, if not both, of the parents went to Michigan. I know of one parent that went to UVA. I’m sure UVA is much more well represented in NoVA than in DC, as grads are either from there or choose to live there after college.

I think there are definitely social circles in play here.

Classic Maryland/Virginia and Democrat/Republican divides.

When I was a fed in a Cabinet agency long ago, there were 4 Michigan grads in my immediate workgroup. Law, Public Policy, Chemistry or Chemical Engineering, and Econ. ABD. And my manager who went to UMD undergrad and LSE grad school was born in Ann Arbor, so I think his dad had studied there.

But it's not just social circles. I have had the same experience as the PP in DC Biglaw. Have worked in two different top firms in DC that were both very snobby about their hiring. Both recruited from UVA, neither from Michigan. I don't recall any lawyers from Michigan even working at either. Lots of UVA lawyers. I'm sure Michigan law would have met their academic standards, yet they didn't fly out there to recruit. They did recruit at Ivies, UVA, Georgetown, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t need to go off of who you know or car stickers. There is data on this. % of undergrads ending up in the DMV:

Ross: 3.8%
McIntire: 31.85%

Ford: not listed in the destinations above 10% (though grad is higher)
Batten: 75%

And so on.

So there are UM grads in DC and this doesn't account for LSA or the other colleges, nor is it weighted. Case closed.

No one on this thread ever said there were zero UM grads in DC. A few said they hadn’t met any UM grads to highlight their main point, which is that the alumni network of UVA is much bigger here than UM, and that does indeed seem to be true. The percentages of UM grads landing here is small (it also doesn’t show up on the LSA list which goes as low as 6.4%, so it is below that). Weighting it doesn’t meaningfully change the result as the gap is so large.

I didn’t attend either of these schools. But it’s weird to try to imply that UM has the same alumni network here as UVA.

Such a weird flex for someone who has no dog in this fight, or....



p.s. My takeaway is that UVA is indeed a regional school, which I didn't realize prior. Thanks for clarifying!

It's not a flex, it's reality. From someone disinterested. You sound like you have some weird anti UVA agenda.

Look, this kid can go where they want. This is one factor of many, maybe not the most important but also something a 18 year old kid may not think about so I raised it. Not sure why this is so triggering to some of you. It's really just common sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will add that another factor is where your kid wants to live after college if they have any idea. UVA is great if want to stay in VA or DC area. So many alums, so many connections. I went to UVA for grad school and it's far more valuable to me in this area (DMV) than my underegrad alma mater even though undergrad was more prestigious. I either have personal connections or have an instant bond with fellow alums if meeting for the first time. Plus everyone already knows and respects the degree. I imagine it's the same for UMich in Chicago or Detroit but I don't live there so I can't say.

This is such a weird, tired argument. There are TONS of UM alum in DC. DH is an alum and kids went to JKLM school and so many parents sport UM gear. DC graduated 2 years ago, works in DC, and knows tons of UM friends here (some from DC originally, but not all).

UM has a huge alumni network in DC. They just did a private tour of the Air & Space museum last weekend.

I don't recall ever seeing U Mich gear in DMV, or meeting a U Mich grad. I see UVA gear All The Time and meet UVA grads all the time, or read about them in the news, see eg our new VA Gov.

You can't truly think that U Mich rivals UVA for alum network in VA/DC.

Really?!? You never see Michigan gear in the DMV? It’s everywhere. We live in NWDC and know many more Michigan grads than UVA grads. Of my kid’s class at a well known private HS, I can think of 9 families where at least one, if not both, of the parents went to Michigan. I know of one parent that went to UVA. I’m sure UVA is much more well represented in NoVA than in DC, as grads are either from there or choose to live there after college.

I think there are definitely social circles in play here.

Classic Maryland/Virginia and Democrat/Republican divides.

When I was a fed in a Cabinet agency long ago, there were 4 Michigan grads in my immediate workgroup. Law, Public Policy, Chemistry or Chemical Engineering, and Econ. ABD. And my manager who went to UMD undergrad and LSE grad school was born in Ann Arbor, so I think his dad had studied there.

But it's not just social circles. I have had the same experience as the PP in DC Biglaw. Have worked in two different top firms in DC that were both very snobby about their hiring. Both recruited from UVA, neither from Michigan. I don't recall any lawyers from Michigan even working at either. Lots of UVA lawyers. I'm sure Michigan law would have met their academic standards, yet they didn't fly out there to recruit. They did recruit at Ivies, UVA, Georgetown, etc.

I have been involved in non-big-law F500 corporate recruiting. These are the three reasons why schools get on to corporate recruiter lists:

1) Current employees went to school X
2) Past track record in last few hiring seasons of good hiring yield at school X
3) Rankings that HR can find

So individual employers/firms etc. tend to replicate their existing patterns. Going broad is expensive. During recessions, firms tend to drop schools off their list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will add that another factor is where your kid wants to live after college if they have any idea. UVA is great if want to stay in VA or DC area. So many alums, so many connections. I went to UVA for grad school and it's far more valuable to me in this area (DMV) than my underegrad alma mater even though undergrad was more prestigious. I either have personal connections or have an instant bond with fellow alums if meeting for the first time. Plus everyone already knows and respects the degree. I imagine it's the same for UMich in Chicago or Detroit but I don't live there so I can't say.

This is such a weird, tired argument. There are TONS of UM alum in DC. DH is an alum and kids went to JKLM school and so many parents sport UM gear. DC graduated 2 years ago, works in DC, and knows tons of UM friends here (some from DC originally, but not all).

UM has a huge alumni network in DC. They just did a private tour of the Air & Space museum last weekend.

I don't recall ever seeing U Mich gear in DMV, or meeting a U Mich grad. I see UVA gear All The Time and meet UVA grads all the time, or read about them in the news, see eg our new VA Gov.

You can't truly think that U Mich rivals UVA for alum network in VA/DC.

Really?!? You never see Michigan gear in the DMV? It’s everywhere. We live in NWDC and know many more Michigan grads than UVA grads. Of my kid’s class at a well known private HS, I can think of 9 families where at least one, if not both, of the parents went to Michigan. I know of one parent that went to UVA. I’m sure UVA is much more well represented in NoVA than in DC, as grads are either from there or choose to live there after college.

I think there are definitely social circles in play here.

Classic Maryland/Virginia and Democrat/Republican divides.

When I was a fed in a Cabinet agency long ago, there were 4 Michigan grads in my immediate workgroup. Law, Public Policy, Chemistry or Chemical Engineering, and Econ. ABD. And my manager who went to UMD undergrad and LSE grad school was born in Ann Arbor, so I think his dad had studied there.

But it's not just social circles. I have had the same experience as the PP in DC Biglaw. Have worked in two different top firms in DC that were both very snobby about their hiring. Both recruited from UVA, neither from Michigan. I don't recall any lawyers from Michigan even working at either. Lots of UVA lawyers. I'm sure Michigan law would have met their academic standards, yet they didn't fly out there to recruit. They did recruit at Ivies, UVA, Georgetown, etc.

I have been involved in non-big-law F500 corporate recruiting. These are the three reasons why schools get on to corporate recruiter lists:

1) Current employees went to school X
2) Past track record in last few hiring seasons of good hiring yield at school X
3) Rankings that HR can find

So individual employers/firms etc. tend to replicate their existing patterns. Going broad is expensive. During recessions, firms tend to drop schools off their list.

Yes but also proximity/convenience/expense. My DC biglaw firms didn't fly anyone across the country to Stanford. Obviously Stanford is excellent but I guess the expense/time didn't justify the trips. In contrast, could easily get interviews to UVA or Georgetown so they did.