Engineering schools that won’t crush my child’s soul

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of why engineering rank does not matter so much is that most test questions have known mathematical answers (not usually subjective questions such as essays), part is ABET outlining what topics various courses should cover and outlining what courses to include in degree requirements, part is that roughly the same questions get asked.

+1000

Mechanics 101 is the same basically everywhere. The correct answer is one answer (maybe a few paths to get to it). But it's not subjective. You either understand the material or you don't.

And for many engineering students, the programs are not difficult. My Chem Eng kid thinks Thermo and Heat and mass transfer are fun courses and easily had a 95%+ in both. That is why they are a Chem eng major and not a history major---it's what they love and enjoy and are naturally good at.

My other kid---no way in hell would they survive a strong STEM program (did finance instead and did well but more math focused than math and science)

No it is not. The pace and depth at a top school in calc, thermo, quantum, even gen chem and physics are quite different at a top school versus not: psets are much harder, tests are harder, and the pace is faster at top schools.

Those who have taught atT100 vs T30 vs T10 know. The differences exist in humanities too. When the average student in a course has an SAT of 1350 that is approached differently than when the average student is above 1500 if not 1550+ (in top schools).

This just isn’t true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The "top schools" poster is exhausting.

Almost as exhausting as "all schools are the same doesn't matter" poster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 2.7/4.0 undergrad engineering degree from a lower ranked engineering program has never held me back careerwise. I can and do solve real problems on the job, and that is what matters. On the job is always "open book", unlike the academic tests of memorization.

Yup, you definitely went to a lower ranked program. Higher ranked programs teach their students to solve problems they've never seen before, so they can graduate and solve problems that no one has seen or solved before.

YES. This is the key to top schools, whether it be Engineering or other stem: They teach how to problem solve and they do it by having difficult psets and exams such that 1/3 + of the questions require detailed application of knowledge and understanding of material beyond the scope of the course. Current research problems that have no answer could be on them. The high score could be 78% correct and the professor could say well that is a record high for this exam, and brag about trying to stump them even more next time. It is not MIT alone that does this.
Cornell, Stanford, Penn, Princeton, CMU, JHU, Harvard, and 3-4 more are known for this type of rigor in Engineering courses.
No these are not "soul crushing" environments OP, they are invigorating! Because essentially all students accepted to the E programs are top students, there is not "weedout": the median score of 60% correct will be a B+. The kid with the 78% gets an A as does the rest of the top 1/4 or so, then A-. Very few get Cs for the semester grade, even if they were well below median (B-/C+)on one exam they seek help and improve. The professors want them to improve. Grad TAs help everyone too: these are phD students who have been accepted to these top departments; all had 3.9+ in their undergrad or they would not be at a top school for phD. Undergrad learning assistants who took the course previously are invited to assist because they were top 1-2 students, and are quite helpful, contributing to the collaborative nature of these programs. The students work extremely hard and are challenged; the pressure is lessened by the fact that it is rare to get a C for the semester and 30-40% get A- or A.

+1

It’s definitely hard, but many of the kids at the top schools love a challenge.

It’s only “soul crushing” for kids who aren’t extremely driven or are in engineering for the wrong reasons.

If OP’s kid is at a TJ-caliber school then he may want the peer group and the challenge that a top school provides. I wouldn’t eliminate any schools at this point in the search.

Here we have a cautionary tale on why it’s important to avoid soul crushing schools and people!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 2.7/4.0 undergrad engineering degree from a lower ranked engineering program has never held me back careerwise. I can and do solve real problems on the job, and that is what matters. On the job is always "open book", unlike the academic tests of memorization.

Yup, you definitely went to a lower ranked program. Higher ranked programs teach their students to solve problems they've never seen before, so they can graduate and solve problems that no one has seen or solved before.

YES. This is the key to top schools, whether it be Engineering or other stem: They teach how to problem solve and they do it by having difficult psets and exams such that 1/3 + of the questions require detailed application of knowledge and understanding of material beyond the scope of the course. Current research problems that have no answer could be on them. The high score could be 78% correct and the professor could say well that is a record high for this exam, and brag about trying to stump them even more next time. It is not MIT alone that does this.
Cornell, Stanford, Penn, Princeton, CMU, JHU, Harvard, and 3-4 more are known for this type of rigor in Engineering courses.
No these are not "soul crushing" environments OP, they are invigorating! Because essentially all students accepted to the E programs are top students, there is not "weedout": the median score of 60% correct will be a B+. The kid with the 78% gets an A as does the rest of the top 1/4 or so, then A-. Very few get Cs for the semester grade, even if they were well below median (B-/C+)on one exam they seek help and improve. The professors want them to improve. Grad TAs help everyone too: these are phD students who have been accepted to these top departments; all had 3.9+ in their undergrad or they would not be at a top school for phD. Undergrad learning assistants who took the course previously are invited to assist because they were top 1-2 students, and are quite helpful, contributing to the collaborative nature of these programs. The students work extremely hard and are challenged; the pressure is lessened by the fact that it is rare to get a C for the semester and 30-40% get A- or A.

+1

It’s definitely hard, but many of the kids at the top schools love a challenge.

It’s only “soul crushing” for kids who aren’t extremely driven or are in engineering for the wrong reasons.

If OP’s kid is at a TJ-caliber school then he may want the peer group and the challenge that a top school provides. I wouldn’t eliminate any schools at this point in the search.

Here we have a cautionary tale on why it’s important to avoid soul crushing schools and people!

Different people have different experiences. No need to be a dick about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DD is at Colorado School of Mines. Could not be happier. She's involved in the nerdy engineering culture and the sporty snowboarding/hiking culture. It's such a supportive, collaborative environment. She's in a learning community so she has built in academic support on her floor. The school is small enough that she has upperclassman as friends and they provide practical guidance about the classes and how to survive. She's on a team preparing for the engineering competitions in April, is on the dive team, and is taking a leadership role in the jewish organization on campus. I could not have wished for a better fit for her. Some of her friends are a bit goofy but no more so than any late teen, early 20s kid. DS is on the spectrum so she knows what ND is. She is not and has found a great group of friends.

Love this! Have a DC who was accepted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can anyone compare Mines vs Virginia Tech? Thank you!

11:03 again. DD dismissed Tech. I'm sure it's a great school but it wasn't what she was looking for. Mines is small. DD knows a lot of kids and professors. She's just comfortable there. It's about 45 min west of DIA. The flight home is roughly 3.5 hrs. Since IAD and DIA are both UA hubs, flights seem to go all the time. It's relatively easy to get to the airport from campus. Mines does have a football team, but football isn't a big deal. There are a few frat/sororities on campus but not an overwhelming greek culture. The town of Golden is adorable and the school and the town are tightly integrated. Many of the Mines kids went to the HS homecoming parade to cheer on the kids. DD loves to bake and there's a small shopping center across the street from campus with a Safeway. She's always running to the grocery store to pick up eggs, milk, chocolate etc. There is a kitchen in her dorm that she uses. As I said earlier, it does have a nerdy culture but it's also very inclusive. DD has felt welcomed into every activity she has tried. It helps if your kid likes the outdoors.

Mines does an amazing job with freshman orientation. It's the week before classes start and includes a 2 night overnight off campus. At the end, there is big hike. Freshman get their hardhat and the upperclassman throw paint at them as they climb. Call it the induction ceremony if you will. It creates a sense of unity and belonging. One of people DD met on the hike was the president of the university. She and he chatted. To her, he was just another adult. But she mentioned that she was interested in a specific company and a program they offered on campus. He told her to email him the next week to set up an appt to discuss it further with him. She has her summer internship lined up as a result of that conversation.

Classes aren't overly challenging. She had AP Physics, Chem, and BC. Most of this semester has been a review. She could have opted into higher level classes but chose not to. Many of her friends also chose to repeat the AP material. Freshman fall courses are fairly standard. She was given her course schedule even before she got to campus. Both programs are ABET so academically there probably isn't that much of a difference.

+1 Again, this post make me so happy.

[Anonymous]

NM Tech is another smaller STEam school with a very supportive environment. It also has surprisingly strong internship placement with multiple research labs and facilities in the state. Worth a look. Lots of their students go on to get advanced degrees in STEM at other colleges.

[Anonymous]

STEM not STEam

[Anonymous]

What's the environment like at places like Perdue and GA Tech? (And if they are super competitive and "soul-crushing," are there ways or fun traditions to lighten things up?)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's the environment like at places like Perdue and GA Tech? (And if they are super competitive and "soul-crushing," are there ways or fun traditions to lighten things up?)

Curious about this, too.

And are there are schools more known for churn - more work, more projects, more production - vs schools known for more depth or interdisciplinary work within or beyond engineering?

[Anonymous]

perdue famous for chicken chopping sweatshops

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's the environment like at places like Perdue and GA Tech? (And if they are super competitive and "soul-crushing," are there ways or fun traditions to lighten things up?)

My DS is a freshman Engineering major at Georgia Tech. Obviously, it's difficult academic wise, but it's been an extremely supportive environment there for him from the students, professors and on. They will give you and provide the resources for your student to obtain as much help as they need to be successful there. He truly loves everything about it. We couldn't be more pleased.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's the environment like at places like Perdue and GA Tech? (And if they are super competitive and "soul-crushing," are there ways or fun traditions to lighten things up?)

Just to add, Georgia Tech is very rich in traditions. There are so many activities for the students sponsored by the Institute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Auburn

Good school, but does not fit OP's specific criteria.

How so?

[Anonymous]

"crush my child's soul" sounds awfully dramatic... engineering is hard but if your kid is reasonably smart and works hard, nothing will get crushed.

- engineer