Engineering schools that won’t crush my child’s soul

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Part of why engineering rank does not matter so much is that most test questions have known mathematical answers (not usually subjective questions such as essays), part is ABET outlining what topics various courses should cover and outlining what courses to include in degree requirements, part is that roughly the same questions get asked.

+1000

Mechanics 101 is the same basically everywhere. The correct answer is one answer (maybe a few paths to get to it). But it's not subjective. You either understand the material or you don't.

And for many engineering students, the programs are not difficult. My Chem Eng kid thinks Thermo and Heat and mass transfer are fun courses and easily had a 95%+ in both. That is why they are a Chem eng major and not a history major---it's what they love and enjoy and are naturally good at.

My other kid---no way in hell would they survive a strong STEM program (did finance instead and did well but more math focused than math and science)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of why engineering rank does not matter so much is that most test questions have known mathematical answers (not usually subjective questions such as essays), part is ABET outlining what topics various courses should cover and outlining what courses to include in degree requirements, part is that roughly the same questions get asked.

lol what? Does premed major and subjects have unknown and different answers? Business finance classes are different school to school...economic principles different per school? Nonsense. Engineering rank matters more than any major. Maker spaces, research opportunities/money for research, top notch professors and instruction all matter!!!

No it does not!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone recommending private schools for engineering that cost $90k a year?

Well plenty of them give excellent merit.

CWRU gave my kid $42K/year (a few years ago), so almost 75% of tuition.
WPI gave my kid $28K/year the same time (so almost 50% of tuition).

All of that was without even "searching for merit"---had we wanted/needed it, kid could have found much more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of why engineering rank does not matter so much is that most test questions have known mathematical answers (not usually subjective questions such as essays), part is ABET outlining what topics various courses should cover and outlining what courses to include in degree requirements, part is that roughly the same questions get asked.

lol what? Does premed major and subjects have unknown and different answers? Business finance classes are different school to school...economic principles different per school? Nonsense. Engineering rank matters more than any major. Maker spaces, research opportunities/money for research, top notch professors and instruction all matter!!!

No it does not!

Alex, I'll take what people say that get rejected from Top Engineering Schools for $100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of why engineering rank does not matter so much is that most test questions have known mathematical answers (not usually subjective questions such as essays), part is ABET outlining what topics various courses should cover and outlining what courses to include in degree requirements, part is that roughly the same questions get asked.

lol what? Does premed major and subjects have unknown and different answers? Business finance classes are different school to school...economic principles different per school? Nonsense. Engineering rank matters more than any major. Maker spaces, research opportunities/money for research, top notch professors and instruction all matter!!!

No it does not!

Alex, I'll take what people say that get rejected from Top Engineering Schools for $100

-100. The above is just the usual DCUM obsession with "rank" and is not reality.

Premed GPA has lots of courses (often the humanities courses) that have subjective answers. Same for Economic theories -- outside of Quantitative Economics. Same for a marketing degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of why engineering rank does not matter so much is that most test questions have known mathematical answers (not usually subjective questions such as essays), part is ABET outlining what topics various courses should cover and outlining what courses to include in degree requirements, part is that roughly the same questions get asked.

lol what? Does premed major and subjects have unknown and different answers? Business finance classes are different school to school...economic principles different per school? Nonsense. Engineering rank matters more than any major. Maker spaces, research opportunities/money for research, top notch professors and instruction all matter!!!

No it does not!

Alex, I'll take what people say that get rejected from Top Engineering Schools for $100

-100. The above is just the usual DCUM obsession with "rank" and is not reality.

Premed GPA has lots of courses (often the humanities courses) that have subjective answers. Same for Economic theories -- outside of Quantitative Economics. Same for a marketing degree.

-1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of why engineering rank does not matter so much is that most test questions have known mathematical answers (not usually subjective questions such as essays), part is ABET outlining what topics various courses should cover and outlining what courses to include in degree requirements, part is that roughly the same questions get asked.

lol what? Does premed major and subjects have unknown and different answers? Business finance classes are different school to school...economic principles different per school? Nonsense. Engineering rank matters more than any major. Maker spaces, research opportunities/money for research, top notch professors and instruction all matter!!!

No it does not!

Alex, I'll take what people say that get rejected from Top Engineering Schools for $100

-100. The above is just the usual DCUM obsession with "rank" and is not reality.

Premed GPA has lots of courses (often the humanities courses) that have subjective answers. Same for Economic theories -- outside of Quantitative Economics. Same for a marketing degree.

Engineers take humanities courses…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of why engineering rank does not matter so much is that most test questions have known mathematical answers (not usually subjective questions such as essays), part is ABET outlining what topics various courses should cover and outlining what courses to include in degree requirements, part is that roughly the same questions get asked.

+1000

Mechanics 101 is the same basically everywhere. The correct answer is one answer (maybe a few paths to get to it). But it's not subjective. You either understand the material or you don't.

And for many engineering students, the programs are not difficult. My Chem Eng kid thinks Thermo and Heat and mass transfer are fun courses and easily had a 95%+ in both. That is why they are a Chem eng major and not a history major---it's what they love and enjoy and are naturally good at.

My other kid---no way in hell would they survive a strong STEM program (did finance instead and did well but more math focused than math and science)

My kid doing well both as an Engineering major with a minor in Finance at a top school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of why engineering rank does not matter so much is that most test questions have known mathematical answers (not usually subjective questions such as essays), part is ABET outlining what topics various courses should cover and outlining what courses to include in degree requirements, part is that roughly the same questions get asked.

+1000

Mechanics 101 is the same basically everywhere. The correct answer is one answer (maybe a few paths to get to it). But it's not subjective. You either understand the material or you don't.

And for many engineering students, the programs are not difficult. My Chem Eng kid thinks Thermo and Heat and mass transfer are fun courses and easily had a 95%+ in both. That is why they are a Chem eng major and not a history major---it's what they love and enjoy and are naturally good at.

My other kid---no way in hell would they survive a strong STEM program (did finance instead and did well but more math focused than math and science)

My kid doing well both as an Engineering major with a minor in Finance at a top school.

Of course

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of why engineering rank does not matter so much is that most test questions have known mathematical answers (not usually subjective questions such as essays), part is ABET outlining what topics various courses should cover and outlining what courses to include in degree requirements, part is that roughly the same questions get asked.

lol what? Does premed major and subjects have unknown and different answers? Business finance classes are different school to school...economic principles different per school? Nonsense. Engineering rank matters more than any major. Maker spaces, research opportunities/money for research, top notch professors and instruction all matter!!!

No it does not!

Alex, I'll take what people say that get rejected from Top Engineering Schools for $100

100%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of why engineering rank does not matter so much is that most test questions have known mathematical answers (not usually subjective questions such as essays), part is ABET outlining what topics various courses should cover and outlining what courses to include in degree requirements, part is that roughly the same questions get asked.

+1000

Mechanics 101 is the same basically everywhere. The correct answer is one answer (maybe a few paths to get to it). But it's not subjective. You either understand the material or you don't.

And for many engineering students, the programs are not difficult. My Chem Eng kid thinks Thermo and Heat and mass transfer are fun courses and easily had a 95%+ in both. That is why they are a Chem eng major and not a history major---it's what they love and enjoy and are naturally good at.

My other kid---no way in hell would they survive a strong STEM program (did finance instead and did well but more math focused than math and science)

No it is not. The pace and depth at a top school in calc, thermo, quantum, even gen chem and physics are quite different at a top school versus not: psets are much harder, tests are harder, and the pace is faster at top schools.

Those who have taught atT100 vs T30 vs T10 know. The differences exist in humanities too. When the average student in a course has an SAT of 1350 that is approached differently than when the average student is above 1500 if not 1550+ (in top schools).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 2.7/4.0 undergrad engineering degree from a lower ranked engineering program has never held me back careerwise. I can and do solve real problems on the job, and that is what matters. On the job is always "open book", unlike the academic tests of memorization.

Yup, you definitely went to a lower ranked program. Higher ranked programs teach their students to solve problems they've never seen before, so they can graduate and solve problems that no one has seen or solved before.

YES. This is the key to top schools, whether it be Engineering or other stem: They teach how to problem solve and they do it by having difficult psets and exams such that 1/3 + of the questions require detailed application of knowledge and understanding of material beyond the scope of the course. Current research problems that have no answer could be on them. The high score could be 78% correct and the professor could say well that is a record high for this exam, and brag about trying to stump them even more next time. It is not MIT alone that does this.
Cornell, Stanford, Penn, Princeton, CMU, JHU, Harvard, and 3-4 more are known for this type of rigor in Engineering courses.
No these are not "soul crushing" environments OP, they are invigorating! Because essentially all students accepted to the E programs are top students, there is not "weedout": the median score of 60% correct will be a B+. The kid with the 78% gets an A as does the rest of the top 1/4 or so, then A-. Very few get Cs for the semester grade, even if they were well below median (B-/C+)on one exam they seek help and improve. The professors want them to improve. Grad TAs help everyone too: these are phD students who have been accepted to these top departments; all had 3.9+ in their undergrad or they would not be at a top school for phD. Undergrad learning assistants who took the course previously are invited to assist because they were top 1-2 students, and are quite helpful, contributing to the collaborative nature of these programs. The students work extremely hard and are challenged; the pressure is lessened by the fact that it is rare to get a C for the semester and 30-40% get A- or A.

[Anonymous]

The "top schools" poster is exhausting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 2.7/4.0 undergrad engineering degree from a lower ranked engineering program has never held me back careerwise. I can and do solve real problems on the job, and that is what matters. On the job is always "open book", unlike the academic tests of memorization.

Yup, you definitely went to a lower ranked program. Higher ranked programs teach their students to solve problems they've never seen before, so they can graduate and solve problems that no one has seen or solved before.

YES. This is the key to top schools, whether it be Engineering or other stem: They teach how to problem solve and they do it by having difficult psets and exams such that 1/3 + of the questions require detailed application of knowledge and understanding of material beyond the scope of the course. Current research problems that have no answer could be on them. The high score could be 78% correct and the professor could say well that is a record high for this exam, and brag about trying to stump them even more next time. It is not MIT alone that does this.
Cornell, Stanford, Penn, Princeton, CMU, JHU, Harvard, and 3-4 more are known for this type of rigor in Engineering courses.
No these are not "soul crushing" environments OP, they are invigorating! Because essentially all students accepted to the E programs are top students, there is not "weedout": the median score of 60% correct will be a B+. The kid with the 78% gets an A as does the rest of the top 1/4 or so, then A-. Very few get Cs for the semester grade, even if they were well below median (B-/C+)on one exam they seek help and improve. The professors want them to improve. Grad TAs help everyone too: these are phD students who have been accepted to these top departments; all had 3.9+ in their undergrad or they would not be at a top school for phD. Undergrad learning assistants who took the course previously are invited to assist because they were top 1-2 students, and are quite helpful, contributing to the collaborative nature of these programs. The students work extremely hard and are challenged; the pressure is lessened by the fact that it is rare to get a C for the semester and 30-40% get A- or A.

+1

It’s definitely hard, but many of the kids at the top schools love a challenge.

It’s only “soul crushing” for kids who aren’t extremely driven or are in engineering for the wrong reasons.

If OP’s kid is at a TJ-caliber school then he may want the peer group and the challenge that a top school provides. I wouldn’t eliminate any schools at this point in the search.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of why engineering rank does not matter so much is that most test questions have known mathematical answers (not usually subjective questions such as essays), part is ABET outlining what topics various courses should cover and outlining what courses to include in degree requirements, part is that roughly the same questions get asked.

+1000

Mechanics 101 is the same basically everywhere. The correct answer is one answer (maybe a few paths to get to it). But it's not subjective. You either understand the material or you don't.

And for many engineering students, the programs are not difficult. My Chem Eng kid thinks Thermo and Heat and mass transfer are fun courses and easily had a 95%+ in both. That is why they are a Chem eng major and not a history major---it's what they love and enjoy and are naturally good at.

My other kid---no way in hell would they survive a strong STEM program (did finance instead and did well but more math focused than math and science)

No it is not. The pace and depth at a top school in calc, thermo, quantum, even gen chem and physics are quite different at a top school versus not: psets are much harder, tests are harder, and the pace is faster at top schools.

Those who have taught atT100 vs T30 vs T10 know. The differences exist in humanities too. When the average student in a course has an SAT of 1350 that is approached differently than when the average student is above 1500 if not 1550+ (in top schools).

+100