Are We Crazy for Questioning a $250k US Degree and looking abroad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The vast majority of students clamoring for the US education are looking to get access to the US job market. It’s a purely financial decision for the most.

That doesn’t seem to make much sense based on what the recruiter person says (how they recruit from like the top 15 European colleges).

Is the idea that if you are physically here then an employer is more likely to sponsor you? I would think most end up returning to their home country as most Americans studying abroad end up doing.

That recruiter works for a company that employs .000000001% of college grads, with a stupid HR policy to boot. I would not take anything they say to determine choice of college. It’s just common sense that there are more employment opportunities in the region where you went to school (putting aside rural colleges I guess).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:for most kids, going to a top regional college makes the most sense. that's where the alumni base is. but nobody jumps all over posters when their Chicago kid (who plans on living as an adult in Chicago) chooses BC over Marquette. even though - and data proves this out - the hiring regionally in Chicago favors the Marquette grad.

also, another best of both worlds situation is school in UK and a "semester abroad" back in the US, which I've seen kids do

Well I would jump all over that parent if they were obsessing over the prestige of BC over Marquette. I think it’s ridiculous.

Why would you jump all over parents for ANY college decision. Absurd.

If they were here crowing about how BC was superior to Marquette then they would have started it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The vast majority of students clamoring for the US education are looking to get access to the US job market. It’s a purely financial decision for the most.

That doesn’t seem to make much sense based on what the recruiter person says (how they recruit from like the top 15 European colleges).

Is the idea that if you are physically here then an employer is more likely to sponsor you? I would think most end up returning to their home country as most Americans studying abroad end up doing.

That recruiter works for a company that employs .000000001% of college grads, with a stupid HR policy to boot. I would not take anything they say to determine choice of college. It’s just common sense that there are more employment opportunities in the region where you went to school (putting aside rural colleges I guess).

Not for internationals that originate from 1st world countries and have to deal with Visa issues. My guess is 90% return to their home country for work as most Americans end up doing.

The exception are people that are using college to effectively escape their home countries. They have different more desperate motivations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:for most kids, going to a top regional college makes the most sense. that's where the alumni base is. but nobody jumps all over posters when their Chicago kid (who plans on living as an adult in Chicago) chooses BC over Marquette. even though - and data proves this out - the hiring regionally in Chicago favors the Marquette grad.

also, another best of both worlds situation is school in UK and a "semester abroad" back in the US, which I've seen kids do

Well I would jump all over that parent if they were obsessing over the prestige of BC over Marquette. I think it’s ridiculous.

Why would you jump all over parents for ANY college decision. Absurd.

If they were here crowing about how BC was superior to Marquette then they would have started it.

but this is in your mind. this is living rent free in your head. this was not part of any scenario, ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one will admit it here- or very few- but most American colleges, or at least the ones discussed here- are grossly overpriced. We keep buying in because we’re too scared not to

I mean yes, if you are too good to send your kid to a SUNY and insist on Northeastern.

I'd much rather go to school in the UK than SUNY. sorry!

I think there are pluses and minuses.

Students at the SUNY schools probably have much better access to dorms and off-campus student apartments.

The career services office at the SUNY schools might be better.

Getting professors to write recommendations might be a lot easier.

The non-U.S./non-Canadian schools might offer:

- More diverse student bodies.

- A much more international outlook.

- A less selective application process than the flagships — in exchange for the students facing brutal weedout classes in the first year.

- Easier access to fun places to visit.

- A different but fun student culture.

- (In some situations) much cheaper tuition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one will admit it here- or very few- but most American colleges, or at least the ones discussed here- are grossly overpriced. We keep buying in because we’re too scared not to

I mean yes, if you are too good to send your kid to a SUNY and insist on Northeastern.

I'd much rather go to school in the UK than SUNY. sorry!

I think there are pluses and minuses.

Students at the SUNY schools probably have much better access to dorms and off-campus student apartments.

The career services office at the SUNY schools might be better.

Getting professors to write recommendations might be a lot easier.

The non-U.S./non-Canadian schools might offer:

- More diverse student bodies.

- A much more international outlook.

- A less selective application process than the flagships — in exchange for the students facing brutal weedout classes in the first year.

- Easier access to fun places to visit.

- A different but fun student culture.

- (In some situations) much cheaper tuition.

I'm pretty sure it's much simpler than this...they would rather go to college in London than Binghamton or Buffalo or other SUNY locations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The vast majority of students clamoring for the US education are looking to get access to the US job market. It’s a purely financial decision for the most.

That doesn’t seem to make much sense based on what the recruiter person says (how they recruit from like the top 15 European colleges).

Is the idea that if you are physically here then an employer is more likely to sponsor you? I would think most end up returning to their home country as most Americans studying abroad end up doing.

It is way easier to get someone to sponsor your visa if you’re are already here. You can start working on F1-OPT as part of your student visa while H1B is being processed. Some majors provide 3 year OPT. I haven’t met a student who came here just for education. I have met the wealthy ones though who came here for bragging rights and partying. They go back to their family businesses back home. I’m pretty sure there is a very small number that are here only for the education part of it.
Things have changed now though because of the economy. I know of recent graduates who don’t have any option but to go back because the clock is running out on their OPT.
People come to the US mostly for financial reasons. Once they’ve made their millions, a few go back for more meaningful social connections.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:for most kids, going to a top regional college makes the most sense. that's where the alumni base is. but nobody jumps all over posters when their Chicago kid (who plans on living as an adult in Chicago) chooses BC over Marquette. even though - and data proves this out - the hiring regionally in Chicago favors the Marquette grad.

also, another best of both worlds situation is school in UK and a "semester abroad" back in the US, which I've seen kids do

Well I would jump all over that parent if they were obsessing over the prestige of BC over Marquette. I think it’s ridiculous.

Why would you jump all over parents for ANY college decision. Absurd.

If they were here crowing about how BC was superior to Marquette then they would have started it.

but this is in your mind. this is living rent free in your head. this was not part of any scenario, ever.

Sigh. Read the thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one will admit it here- or very few- but most American colleges, or at least the ones discussed here- are grossly overpriced. We keep buying in because we’re too scared not to

I mean yes, if you are too good to send your kid to a SUNY and insist on Northeastern.

I'd much rather go to school in the UK than SUNY. sorry!

I think there are pluses and minuses.

Students at the SUNY schools probably have much better access to dorms and off-campus student apartments.

The career services office at the SUNY schools might be better.

Getting professors to write recommendations might be a lot easier.

The non-U.S./non-Canadian schools might offer:

- More diverse student bodies.

- A much more international outlook.

- A less selective application process than the flagships — in exchange for the students facing brutal weedout classes in the first year.

- Easier access to fun places to visit.

- A different but fun student culture.

- (In some situations) much cheaper tuition.

I'm pretty sure it's much simpler than this...they would rather go to college in London than Binghamton or Buffalo or other SUNY locations.

well, this. I'm the one who originally said my kids would have preferred UK over SUNY. We're from NY. I did take both my kids to look at Bing, which would be best for their areas of interest (which took some effort, Bing isn't so easy to get to)

I like a lot about Bing. It's a friggin bargain and educates plenty of bright kids. But it's very very blah. The doors, the campus, the classrooms, the dining hall. In many ways I'm proud NY has prioritized access over vibes (or a decent architect), but I totally get why my kids wrote it off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:for most kids, going to a top regional college makes the most sense. that's where the alumni base is. but nobody jumps all over posters when their Chicago kid (who plans on living as an adult in Chicago) chooses BC over Marquette. even though - and data proves this out - the hiring regionally in Chicago favors the Marquette grad.

also, another best of both worlds situation is school in UK and a "semester abroad" back in the US, which I've seen kids do

Well I would jump all over that parent if they were obsessing over the prestige of BC over Marquette. I think it’s ridiculous.

Why would you jump all over parents for ANY college decision. Absurd.

If they were here crowing about how BC was superior to Marquette then they would have started it.

but this is in your mind. this is living rent free in your head. this was not part of any scenario, ever.

Sigh. Read the thread.

I read it. Stop judging other kids' choices

[Anonymous]

Uk universities are also a lot more international than US ones. So the diversity equation is not even in question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We’ve been over this so many times. It’s clear what’s happening. Your kids can’t get into the Ivies or other top privates and you’re too embarrassed to say they’re going elsewhere in the USA, so you send them abroad and having made that decision you now insist that their educations are better, they’re having more fun, their job prospects are better etc.

What’s really going on is that instead of going to college with the unwashed American masses they’re doing it with the unwashed European ones for less money.

The top students in the world aren’t clamoring to study in Europe—they’re clamoring to study here.

Your kids are going to school with millions of other kids. They’re not going to Harvard.

What you’ve chosen to do is fine. Great. You do you. But it doesn’t make you special, it doesn’t make your kids special, and it certainly provides no license to tear down kids who aren’t doing the same thing. I guarantee you most kids at most everywhere are “having fun.“

I'm always fascinated by the confidence with which some people psychoanalyze the complex financial and educational decisions of hundreds of families they've never met.

The central premise that this is a 'backup plan' for students who can't get into top US schools is a tired, easily disproven myth. As I and many others here have shared, DD turned down two Ivies to study in the UK. Her story isn’t unique. This is not about rejection; it's about a different set of priorities with a desire for real-world global experience, not just one stamped with a familiar US ranking.

Frankly, the idea that all the world's 'top students' only clamor for US schools is an incredibly US-centric view of the world. Brilliant students everywhere have different goals and different definitions of 'the best.'

Ultimately, praising one path isn't an attack on another, and it certainly isn't a license to tear down the choices of others.

Anyway, for those of us who are actually interested in the productive conversation the OP started, let’s ignore these trolls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a degree from a solid British university that you’ve never heard of. I’ve had no problems getting jobs in the US. And as a hiring manager I care much more about experience and presentation of a candidate than what college an applicant attended. The don’t even remember the colleges any of the people I’ve hired attended.

Agree. As a hiring manager, I did not care about the school a candidate attended. If I had wanted to know more, I could have searched the internet. However, I never did that.

Another mom “hiring manager” here in the Bay Area for a well known tech firm. I apologize, but yes, we do care. we dont rank schools, but we do select where we are going to recruit from. It is a select group of about 20-25 schools in the US. WE do the same thing in Canada, UK and the EU. You might not like it, but this is how the world works in the upper echelons of corporate world. We have hired kids from the t15 UK schools mentioned in the other DCUM thread ahead of kids at t25-t50 in the US.

And yes, we know who ETH, TUM, Delft, KU Leuven, KTM is and all of the top UK unis discussed here. We have hired from all of them. And the vast majority of times, these are American kids coming back home.

Sure, while regional employers and others dont care, there is still a big segment of the market that does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve been over this so many times. It’s clear what’s happening. Your kids can’t get into the Ivies or other top privates and you’re too embarrassed to say they’re going elsewhere in the USA, so you send them abroad and having made that decision you now insist that their educations are better, they’re having more fun, their job prospects are better etc.

What’s really going on is that instead of going to college with the unwashed American masses they’re doing it with the unwashed European ones for less money.


Your kids are going to school with millions of other kids. They’re not going to Harvard.

What you’ve chosen to do is fine. Great. You do you. But it doesn’t make you special, it doesn’t make your kids special, and it certainly provides no license to tear down kids who aren’t doing the same thing. I guarantee you most kids at most everywhere are “having fun.“

I'm always fascinated by the confidence with which some people psychoanalyze the complex financial and educational decisions of hundreds of families they've never met.

The central premise that this is a 'backup plan' for students who can't get into top US schools is a tired, easily disproven myth. As I and many others here have shared, DD turned down two Ivies to study in the UK. Her story isn’t unique. This is not about rejection; it's about a different set of priorities with a desire for real-world global experience, not just one stamped with a familiar US ranking.

Frankly, the idea that all the world's 'top students' only clamor for US schools is an incredibly US-centric view of the world. Brilliant students everywhere have different goals and different definitions of 'the best.'

Ultimately, praising one path isn't an attack on another, and it certainly isn't a license to tear down the choices of others.

Anyway, for those of us who are actually interested in the productive conversation the OP started, let’s ignore these trolls.

Just because you say it anonymously doesn’t make it true. Very very few American families are turning down Ivy League schools to study in Europe. If your kids are, you are a real exception to the rule.

And that you are seriously asserting that the USA isn’t far and away the preferred destination for foreign students means that you have no credibility.

You clearly do not possess the ability to engage with what is actually written.

To be clear for everyone else following along:

1) My point was never that the US isn't a popular destination. My point was that the world's 'brilliant students' have many goals, and to assume they all prefer the US is a US-centric view. These are two very different statements.

2) You are arguing against a point nobody made, which is the definition of a strawman argument.

This is no longer a productive discussion. I won't be engaging with you further. I'm going back to the actual topic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one will admit it here- or very few- but most American colleges, or at least the ones discussed here- are grossly overpriced. We keep buying in because we’re too scared not to

I mean yes, if you are too good to send your kid to a SUNY and insist on Northeastern.

I'd much rather go to school in the UK than SUNY. sorry!

I think there are pluses and minuses.

Students at the SUNY schools probably have much better access to dorms and off-campus student apartments.

The career services office at the SUNY schools might be better.

Getting professors to write recommendations might be a lot easier.

The non-U.S./non-Canadian schools might offer:

- More diverse student bodies.

- A much more international outlook.

- A less selective application process than the flagships — in exchange for the students facing brutal weedout classes in the first year.

- Easier access to fun places to visit.

- A different but fun student culture.

- (In some situations) much cheaper tuition.

I'm pretty sure it's much simpler than this...they would rather go to college in London than Binghamton or Buffalo or other SUNY locations.

well, this. I'm the one who originally said my kids would have preferred UK over SUNY. We're from NY. I did take both my kids to look at Bing, which would be best for their areas of interest (which took some effort, Bing isn't so easy to get to)

I like a lot about Bing. It's a friggin bargain and educates plenty of bright kids. But it's very very blah. The doors, the campus, the classrooms, the dining hall. In many ways I'm proud NY has prioritized access over vibes (or a decent architect), but I totally get why my kids wrote it off.

Ok so you will pay the equivalent of a downpayment on a very nice house just so your kids can have better … doors … at college.