The only way to have equity is to drag down the top performers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

So… we should take away what they are doing for gifted kids to make things more equitable for kids with disabilities? I.e. “kids with disabilities aren’t getting enough so gifted kids should get even less.” Is that your argument? How does taking away gifted ed opportunities fix the special ed problem? Hint, it doesn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

+1. Any school district could always do more but within the framework of Maryland law, which is too provide services for gifted students beyond what is normally available, I think they're more than meeting their legal obligations. I also think they're providing more than 99% of school districts, and I don't think most districts are failing gifted kids. You're not entitled to a perfect education for a gifted or disabled kid, speaking as the parent of both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

So… we should take away what they are doing for gifted kids to make things more equitable for kids with disabilities? I.e. “kids with disabilities aren’t getting enough so gifted kids should get even less.” Is that your argument? How does taking away gifted ed opportunities fix the special ed problem? Hint, it doesn’t.

No, I'm not arguing that at all. I'm saying your comparisons to special education are ignorant, offensive, and simply false.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

+1. Any school district could always do more but within the framework of Maryland law, which is too provide services for gifted students beyond what is normally available, I think they're more than meeting their legal obligations. I also think they're providing more than 99% of school districts, and I don't think most districts are failing gifted kids. You're not entitled to a perfect education for a gifted or disabled kid, speaking as the parent of both.

lol no one is talking about a *perfect* education. Please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

So… we should take away what they are doing for gifted kids to make things more equitable for kids with disabilities? I.e. “kids with disabilities aren’t getting enough so gifted kids should get even less.” Is that your argument? How does taking away gifted ed opportunities fix the special ed problem? Hint, it doesn’t.

No, I'm not arguing that at all. I'm saying your comparisons to special education are ignorant, offensive, and simply false.

You keep hammering on the same thing, but you're ignoring what's being said. BOTH special education and gifted education fall under the umbrella of special education and educational differentiation. You can get mad at the educational philosophy/system that has grouped them together all you want, but what is being said is not with the intent to offend, and it's certainly not ignorance. You seem to be ignorant to how educational systems categorize special education with gifted education. Why do you keep coming at this in such a triggered way? Why does it have to be pitting one group of students against another group of students (never mind as PP noted the many twice exceptional gifted students who have IEPs etc)? Don't you see that so much more could be accomplished in actual REAL pressure on MCPS if you approached it as an all boats rising situation? We should have parent solidarity across ALL needs of differentiation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

+1. Any school district could always do more but within the framework of Maryland law, which is too provide services for gifted students beyond what is normally available, I think they're more than meeting their legal obligations. I also think they're providing more than 99% of school districts, and I don't think most districts are failing gifted kids. You're not entitled to a perfect education for a gifted or disabled kid, speaking as the parent of both.

lol no one is talking about a *perfect* education. Please.

If you're not happy with the accelerated offerings in MCPS, then that must be what you're talking about. Most of your country would kill to have what our kids have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

+1. Any school district could always do more but within the framework of Maryland law, which is too provide services for gifted students beyond what is normally available, I think they're more than meeting their legal obligations. I also think they're providing more than 99% of school districts, and I don't think most districts are failing gifted kids. You're not entitled to a perfect education for a gifted or disabled kid, speaking as the parent of both.

lol no one is talking about a *perfect* education. Please.

If you're not happy with the accelerated offerings in MCPS, then that must be what you're talking about. Most of your country would kill to have what our kids have.

And yet, MCPS is destroying what they had — getting rid of ELC is just the tip of the iceberg.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

+1. Any school district could always do more but within the framework of Maryland law, which is too provide services for gifted students beyond what is normally available, I think they're more than meeting their legal obligations. I also think they're providing more than 99% of school districts, and I don't think most districts are failing gifted kids. You're not entitled to a perfect education for a gifted or disabled kid, speaking as the parent of both.

lol no one is talking about a *perfect* education. Please.

If you're not happy with the accelerated offerings in MCPS, then that must be what you're talking about. Most of your country would kill to have what our kids have.

Oh it "must be," thanks for putting words in my mouth that I'm not actually saying. You're pretty good at that aren't you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

+1. Any school district could always do more but within the framework of Maryland law, which is too provide services for gifted students beyond what is normally available, I think they're more than meeting their legal obligations. I also think they're providing more than 99% of school districts, and I don't think most districts are failing gifted kids. You're not entitled to a perfect education for a gifted or disabled kid, speaking as the parent of both.

lol no one is talking about a *perfect* education. Please.

If you're not happy with the accelerated offerings in MCPS, then that must be what you're talking about. Most of your country would kill to have what our kids have.

And yet, MCPS is destroying what they had — getting rid of ELC is just the tip of the iceberg.

Bingo

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

So… we should take away what they are doing for gifted kids to make things more equitable for kids with disabilities? I.e. “kids with disabilities aren’t getting enough so gifted kids should get even less.” Is that your argument? How does taking away gifted ed opportunities fix the special ed problem? Hint, it doesn’t.

No, I'm not arguing that at all. I'm saying your comparisons to special education are ignorant, offensive, and simply false.

You keep hammering on the same thing, but you're ignoring what's being said. BOTH special education and gifted education fall under the umbrella of special education and educational differentiation. You can get mad at the educational philosophy/system that has grouped them together all you want, but what is being said is not with the intent to offend, and it's certainly not ignorance. You seem to be ignorant to how educational systems categorize special education with gifted education. Why do you keep coming at this in such a triggered way? Why does it have to be pitting one group of students against another group of students (never mind as PP noted the many twice exceptional gifted students who have IEPs etc)? Don't you see that so much more could be accomplished in actual REAL pressure on MCPS if you approached it as an all boats rising situation? We should have parent solidarity across ALL needs of differentiation.

I'm not the one that started the comparison between gifted students and special with special needs. For example:

If education for ALL is really what we are aiming for, and if we are okay with tiny, publicly-funded classes for special ed, then we should be okay paying for similar classes for gifted kids.

But we’re not.

Because of the optics- nobody in the US really likes gifted kids! Like, culturally.

And

Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

Your claim that you want to pursue a "rising tide lifts all boats" strategy might be more credible if you weren't focused on a single policy aimed at advantaged students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

So… we should take away what they are doing for gifted kids to make things more equitable for kids with disabilities? I.e. “kids with disabilities aren’t getting enough so gifted kids should get even less.” Is that your argument? How does taking away gifted ed opportunities fix the special ed problem? Hint, it doesn’t.

No, I'm not arguing that at all. I'm saying your comparisons to special education are ignorant, offensive, and simply false.

You keep hammering on the same thing, but you're ignoring what's being said. BOTH special education and gifted education fall under the umbrella of special education and educational differentiation. You can get mad at the educational philosophy/system that has grouped them together all you want, but what is being said is not with the intent to offend, and it's certainly not ignorance. You seem to be ignorant to how educational systems categorize special education with gifted education. Why do you keep coming at this in such a triggered way? Why does it have to be pitting one group of students against another group of students (never mind as PP noted the many twice exceptional gifted students who have IEPs etc)? Don't you see that so much more could be accomplished in actual REAL pressure on MCPS if you approached it as an all boats rising situation? We should have parent solidarity across ALL needs of differentiation.

I'm not the one that started the comparison between gifted students and special with special needs. For example:

If education for ALL is really what we are aiming for, and if we are okay with tiny, publicly-funded classes for special ed, then we should be okay paying for similar classes for gifted kids.

But we’re not.

Because of the optics- nobody in the US really likes gifted kids! Like, culturally.

And

Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

Your claim that you want to pursue a "rising tide lifts all boats" strategy might be more credible if you weren't focused on a single policy aimed at advantaged students.

I have come to the conclusion that you're being willfully dense. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. Full stop. What PP was pointing out was that even though its the same policy, culturally there's a lot more public support for special education than for gifted education. Like for example how you flipped out about even including those two types of education under the same umbrella. We understand and agree with you that MCPS should be doing more for special education. See? That's not hard. Now try the other way around without flipping out and using whatever shaming words you want to drag up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do people say it’s offensive to talk about special ed but so easily feel like they can tell the parent of a gift child “they’ll be fine”? It’s so clearly a double standard. Public tax dollars should support both.

I don't say gift kids will be "fine". I do think they need services. I take offense at the implication that kids with disabilities in self contained classrooms some kind of affront to your gifted child or a sign your kid is being treated unfairly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people say it’s offensive to talk about special ed but so easily feel like they can tell the parent of a gift child “they’ll be fine”? It’s so clearly a double standard. Public tax dollars should support both.

I don't say gift kids will be "fine". I do think they need services. I take offense at the implication that kids with disabilities in self contained classrooms some kind of affront to your gifted child or a sign your kid is being treated unfairly.

Well you're getting triggered by things that aren't being said, so good luck with that

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

What schools are you looking at? Only the W schools, Blair, and a few others have a huge number of advanced classes. Ours does not.