The insanity of 1%er East Coast parents and college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, life would be much easier if we lived in bumble town North Dakota and my kid just applied to State U or Directional State U. I am somewhat envious of that.

But we are not there.

What? Are you disgruntled because you are a 1%er with a kid who wants to go to an elite school because of name and thinks their wealth makes them entitled ? Those days were over a generation ago. Mine are at different ivies. We are top3% income ie full pay & make it work because we saved. Most there are on aid. Smart is the new rich. Me and many of my elite college peers went there highly aided in the 90s, now we make enough for our kids to be full pay. Since they are as smart or smarter than we are they got in just fine no hooks (in fact their demographic is a bit of a negative yet they still got in). There are plenty of non elite but still T75 for 1% wealth who are not in the top% of smarts/talent.

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make, that your kids only got in because they are full pay? And you’re only 3 percent not 1 percent?

The point is that the wealthy families believe their kids are entitled to a spot in elite colleges purely by virtue of their wealth, and are besides themselves when they realize this is not true.

In your view, what makes the supposed "elite colleges" elite today?

They have the highest percent of the smartest kids so they can have a broad collection of truly challenging courses, yet small enough to know faculty. Additionally they have almost unlimited resources for the students, including but not limited to real research and international summer experiences. The mix leads to the best outcomes, provided the student is ready for the competition

The mix is missing Upper Middle Class kids. It's super wealthy and those that get "meets need" funding. Or UMC kids with grandparents paying tuition or parents with inheritances that don't need to save for retirement.

$250k or $300k/year family from NYC (or any other big city w HCOL) with parents in their 40s/early 50s with more than one kid are not spending $90k per year to send one kid to college, because then they can't afford to live (unless they've been at high income level for a very, very long time).

The donut hole is real, and sending their uber smart UMC kids to SEC honors programs (or other lower ranked schools) where they can get big $ scholarships. This changes everything because the best and brightest aren't necessarily at Ivies/T25s, a lot of them are at schools they can afford instead. (And I'd argue that the kid who takes a full ride scholarship to a lower ranked school is "smarter" than one who takes loans and/or drains his parents' savings to attend T25).

Heck, if my kid could get a full ride at a lesser ranked school, I was UMC full pay, and had the $ banked for Ivy or Ivy+ -- I think the smarter choice is taking the full ride to the 100th ranked school and giving the kid the cash to invest -- probably come out WAY, WAY ahead (unless the goal is IB).

nah. we are doing it so are neighbors here and cousins in DMV. we are in a top public magnet high school in NJ/NY area and did not overspend, 53 yrs old. full pay for 2 kids is not going to be that hard with 300k with reasonable savings over the 18 years. once over 400k it is frankly cash-flowable. the so called donut hole is a small and overly whiny hole filled with folks who did not save much and overspend on housing and vacations. the top schools often pay some aid to people in the upper 200s without a lot of assets.

+1

Almost all of the "donut hole" families did not go from $50K to $200/250K overnight. They gradually increased. That means they had the chance to save 50-75% of their "increases" towards college (50 to college, 50 to retirement) and not upgrade their lifestyle, if they actually value education that much. It's a choice, and they could have made it.

Also, just because the donut hole kids with parents who chose not to save for them are not at T25 does NOT mean they accepted "lesser students". your "donut hole kid" is a dime a dozen, just like the other 90%+ that will be rejected from most T25 schools. 85%+ who apply are "qualified", yet get rejected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you think this is limited to the 1% you have blinkers on.

True but the point is it’s most insane for the 1%ers.

NO. It is easier for 1%. The degree to which it is "most insane" is entirely a dynamic they magic out of their own neuroses and has absolutely ZERO to do with actual limitations on their options.

The 1%ers who choose to go the route of massive donations or spending enormous sums on private school/test prep/college advising/etc. in order to guarantee their kids entry into one of a very narrow range of schools are just being stupid. That's it. It's a stupid game akin to the billionaires who compete over who has the biggest yacht. Only worse because in this scenario their children are the yachts and their educations are being used in a d*ck-measuring contest. Gross. But not actually that hard to opt out of. Just don't.

We are in the top 1% or .5%. I grew up as a poor immigrant kid. I was equally focused, if not more, than my current high school student. Education was my ticket out of poverty. There was no back up plan. My rich kid can go to any school and will probably do fine.

Ambition and striving are popular to put down on DCUM. I wonder if this is what non ambitious say. I hear this in real life from adults who come from family money, but are unimpressive themselves or have unimpressive children. They call the achieving people strivers and look down on them.

I am proud of my achievements. I am proud of my children’s achievements.

No one has an issue with achievement. They have issues with the borderline mental breakdown-level of obsession with getting into certain institutions because those institutions are “elite” and convey “status.” And with the lack of perspective, especially amongst the parents who should know better, to understand that there are many, many successful people who didn’t go that route. Because ultimately it is just one small piece of the puzzle.

How do you know someone is having breakdown level obsession around getting into certain institutions? Honestly, it just reads like your own kids are not competitive, you gave up, some other parents and kids are still in the running and that equals mental breakdown. Nobody is breaking down about not getting into Harvard, ok. They will be upset for a few days if they expected it, then they will move on.

OP here. I posted this because I know a family literally claiming to be in crisis and falling apart over a kid who appears to be headed for a state college.

This person likely knows you well enough to show you their raw feelings.

People fall apart over vanity, sports, promotions, anything really.

I wish there were anything actually self-aware about it. I’m just subjected to endless stream-of-consciousness anxious blather.

I’m Asian American and education is embedded in our culture. Education is respected and the level of school matters. I try not to care and I am very well aware that one can be successful and happy in life without attending a prestigious university. We still want our children to get the best education they can receive.

+++1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you think this is limited to the 1% you have blinkers on.

True but the point is it’s most insane for the 1%ers.

NO. It is easier for 1%. The degree to which it is "most insane" is entirely a dynamic they magic out of their own neuroses and has absolutely ZERO to do with actual limitations on their options.

The 1%ers who choose to go the route of massive donations or spending enormous sums on private school/test prep/college advising/etc. in order to guarantee their kids entry into one of a very narrow range of schools are just being stupid. That's it. It's a stupid game akin to the billionaires who compete over who has the biggest yacht. Only worse because in this scenario their children are the yachts and their educations are being used in a d*ck-measuring contest. Gross. But not actually that hard to opt out of. Just don't.

We are in the top 1% or .5%. I grew up as a poor immigrant kid. I was equally focused, if not more, than my current high school student. Education was my ticket out of poverty. There was no back up plan. My rich kid can go to any school and will probably do fine.

Ambition and striving are popular to put down on DCUM. I wonder if this is what non ambitious say. I hear this in real life from adults who come from family money, but are unimpressive themselves or have unimpressive children. They call the achieving people strivers and look down on them.

I am proud of my achievements. I am proud of my children’s achievements.

The only “achievement” you mentioned is wealth.

DP. But what did you achieve? Do share!

Not the PP but I was from a broken single-parent home and went to an elite college on full pell grants and lots of aid. Like a couple other PPs I worked hard to make a better future. I had 99th %ile SAT scores and was Salutatorian, no FGLI boost back then. I have plenty of money, alas based on google I am not the vaunted "1%" income this thread refers to. I am however very wealthy and am full pay for my kids. The $ is not why I am proud. I am proud of what I achieved because I am a doctor and the head of my division. My spouse who was also poor is now a lawyer at a top firm. They worked hard as well to get where they have gotten, but our elite school was a huge part of our success. The support and structured advice we got there was immeasurable. Once we knew our children had the academic capacity and raw intelligence mixed with drive to have a good shot at a T20, of course we moved them to the top private school and encouraged them. Of course they did not need tutors or any fake EC/nonprofit-starting or anything like DCUM people do. Rather we encouraged them to be their own best, put energy into ECs they enjoyed, and be resilient. We did not want elites for $, rather for the same benefits we got: super smart peers, faculty who care and encourage all students, and every door open to them with more resources than imaginable. My kids are at T10/ivies and will likely go into medicine and a phD, which are not top-1% lucrative, and we could not care less. They can teach high school if they want, we do not care! The point is to get the best education and a leg up to get into any career, and the elites provide that. From my point of view elites are about exposure to to brilliance and endless possibilities. Luckily these schools are more socioeconomically diverse and more welcoming places to poor kids these days. Financial aid kids from public schools were a minority back in '91 and '93. There was never desperation on our part, just encouragement to try for the best. We considered anywhere in the T30ish to be a huge win, it was not top10 or bust

the elite colleges are not economically diverse.

They are now 'rich and poor'--which is diverse but misses the middle. Ivies/Hopkins--HHI under $150-200k are free. Donut holes ($175k-300kHHI) can't stomach $90k/year (unless education was a huge priority and many, many lifestyle sacrifices). Rest are rich families--or rich grandparents paying for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you think this is limited to the 1% you have blinkers on.

True but the point is it’s most insane for the 1%ers.

NO. It is easier for 1%. The degree to which it is "most insane" is entirely a dynamic they magic out of their own neuroses and has absolutely ZERO to do with actual limitations on their options.

The 1%ers who choose to go the route of massive donations or spending enormous sums on private school/test prep/college advising/etc. in order to guarantee their kids entry into one of a very narrow range of schools are just being stupid. That's it. It's a stupid game akin to the billionaires who compete over who has the biggest yacht. Only worse because in this scenario their children are the yachts and their educations are being used in a d*ck-measuring contest. Gross. But not actually that hard to opt out of. Just don't.

We are in the top 1% or .5%. I grew up as a poor immigrant kid. I was equally focused, if not more, than my current high school student. Education was my ticket out of poverty. There was no back up plan. My rich kid can go to any school and will probably do fine.

Ambition and striving are popular to put down on DCUM. I wonder if this is what non ambitious say. I hear this in real life from adults who come from family money, but are unimpressive themselves or have unimpressive children. They call the achieving people strivers and look down on them.

I am proud of my achievements. I am proud of my children’s achievements.

The only “achievement” you mentioned is wealth.

DP. But what did you achieve? Do share!

Not the PP but I was from a broken single-parent home and went to an elite college on full pell grants and lots of aid. Like a couple other PPs I worked hard to make a better future. I had 99th %ile SAT scores and was Salutatorian, no FGLI boost back then. I have plenty of money, alas based on google I am not the vaunted "1%" income this thread refers to. I am however very wealthy and am full pay for my kids. The $ is not why I am proud. I am proud of what I achieved because I am a doctor and the head of my division. My spouse who was also poor is now a lawyer at a top firm. They worked hard as well to get where they have gotten, but our elite school was a huge part of our success. The support and structured advice we got there was immeasurable. Once we knew our children had the academic capacity and raw intelligence mixed with drive to have a good shot at a T20, of course we moved them to the top private school and encouraged them. Of course they did not need tutors or any fake EC/nonprofit-starting or anything like DCUM people do. Rather we encouraged them to be their own best, put energy into ECs they enjoyed, and be resilient. We did not want elites for $, rather for the same benefits we got: super smart peers, faculty who care and encourage all students, and every door open to them with more resources than imaginable. My kids are at T10/ivies and will likely go into medicine and a phD, which are not top-1% lucrative, and we could not care less. They can teach high school if they want, we do not care! The point is to get the best education and a leg up to get into any career, and the elites provide that. From my point of view elites are about exposure to to brilliance and endless possibilities. Luckily these schools are more socioeconomically diverse and more welcoming places to poor kids these days. Financial aid kids from public schools were a minority back in '91 and '93. There was never desperation on our part, just encouragement to try for the best. We considered anywhere in the T30ish to be a huge win, it was not top10 or bust

the elite colleges are not economically diverse.

They are now 'rich and poor'--which is diverse but misses the middle. Ivies/Hopkins--HHI under $150-200k are free. Donut holes ($175k-300kHHI) can't stomach $90k/year (unless education was a huge priority and many, many lifestyle sacrifices). Rest are rich families--or rich grandparents paying for it.

The elite colleges are much more economically diverse than they used to be and the elite colleges are the most economically diverse of all colleges out there. They have super poor all the way up to top 0.1% and they give the most aid to the UMC-not-poor 150k-250k folks.
270k HHI and we get some financial aid from the ivy our kid attends. DC got into 3 T15/ivy schools and the highest ranked one gave the best aid. Below T15 gave none. We are not at all poor. Yet we get aid. People with 200k or less go for FREE. The group between 200 and about 280k get some need base aid depending on assets. There is no world in which making in the 200s is POOR. Come off it and get perspective from real poor people, or those of us who grew up poor, ie well below median household income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, life would be much easier if we lived in bumble town North Dakota and my kid just applied to State U or Directional State U. I am somewhat envious of that.

But we are not there.

What? Are you disgruntled because you are a 1%er with a kid who wants to go to an elite school because of name and thinks their wealth makes them entitled ? Those days were over a generation ago. Mine are at different ivies. We are top3% income ie full pay & make it work because we saved. Most there are on aid. Smart is the new rich. Me and many of my elite college peers went there highly aided in the 90s, now we make enough for our kids to be full pay. Since they are as smart or smarter than we are they got in just fine no hooks (in fact their demographic is a bit of a negative yet they still got in). There are plenty of non elite but still T75 for 1% wealth who are not in the top% of smarts/talent.

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make, that your kids only got in because they are full pay? And you’re only 3 percent not 1 percent?

The point is that the wealthy families believe their kids are entitled to a spot in elite colleges purely by virtue of their wealth, and are besides themselves when they realize this is not true.

In your view, what makes the supposed "elite colleges" elite today?

They have the highest percent of the smartest kids so they can have a broad collection of truly challenging courses, yet small enough to know faculty. Additionally they have almost unlimited resources for the students, including but not limited to real research and international summer experiences. The mix leads to the best outcomes, provided the student is ready for the competition

The mix is missing Upper Middle Class kids. It's super wealthy and those that get "meets need" funding. Or UMC kids with grandparents paying tuition or parents with inheritances that don't need to save for retirement.

$250k or $300k/year family from NYC (or any other big city w HCOL) with parents in their 40s/early 50s with more than one kid are not spending $90k per year to send one kid to college, because then they can't afford to live (unless they've been at high income level for a very, very long time).

The donut hole is real, and sending their uber smart UMC kids to SEC honors programs (or other lower ranked schools) where they can get big $ scholarships. This changes everything because the best and brightest aren't necessarily at Ivies/T25s, a lot of them are at schools they can afford instead. (And I'd argue that the kid who takes a full ride scholarship to a lower ranked school is "smarter" than one who takes loans and/or drains his parents' savings to attend T25).

Heck, if my kid could get a full ride at a lesser ranked school, I was UMC full pay, and had the $ banked for Ivy or Ivy+ -- I think the smarter choice is taking the full ride to the 100th ranked school and giving the kid the cash to invest -- probably come out WAY, WAY ahead (unless the goal is IB).

nah. we are doing it so are neighbors here and cousins in DMV. we are in a top public magnet high school in NJ/NY area and did not overspend, 53 yrs old. full pay for 2 kids is not going to be that hard with 300k with reasonable savings over the 18 years. once over 400k it is frankly cash-flowable. the so called donut hole is a small and overly whiny hole filled with folks who did not save much and overspend on housing and vacations. the top schools often pay some aid to people in the upper 200s without a lot of assets.

+1

Almost all of the "donut hole" families did not go from $50K to $200/250K overnight. They gradually increased. That means they had the chance to save 50-75% of their "increases" towards college (50 to college, 50 to retirement) and not upgrade their lifestyle, if they actually value education that much. It's a choice, and they could have made it.

Also, just because the donut hole kids with parents who chose not to save for them are not at T25 does NOT mean they accepted "lesser students". your "donut hole kid" is a dime a dozen, just like the other 90%+ that will be rejected from most T25 schools. 85%+ who apply are "qualified", yet get rejected.

+100

[Anonymous]

I had a client with a net worth of $20MM+. Client was crazy worried about his DC's university and career prospects. I asked why worry (given the net worth). Client responded that the $20MM can vanish in a heartbeat.

However, realistically, a Harvard degree's worth is more likely to vanish in heartbeat (because of drugs, mental breakdown, lack of ambition).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you think this is limited to the 1% you have blinkers on.

True but the point is it’s most insane for the 1%ers.

NO. It is easier for 1%. The degree to which it is "most insane" is entirely a dynamic they magic out of their own neuroses and has absolutely ZERO to do with actual limitations on their options.

The 1%ers who choose to go the route of massive donations or spending enormous sums on private school/test prep/college advising/etc. in order to guarantee their kids entry into one of a very narrow range of schools are just being stupid. That's it. It's a stupid game akin to the billionaires who compete over who has the biggest yacht. Only worse because in this scenario their children are the yachts and their educations are being used in a d*ck-measuring contest. Gross. But not actually that hard to opt out of. Just don't.

We are in the top 1% or .5%. I grew up as a poor immigrant kid. I was equally focused, if not more, than my current high school student. Education was my ticket out of poverty. There was no back up plan. My rich kid can go to any school and will probably do fine.

Ambition and striving are popular to put down on DCUM. I wonder if this is what non ambitious say. I hear this in real life from adults who come from family money, but are unimpressive themselves or have unimpressive children. They call the achieving people strivers and look down on them.

I am proud of my achievements. I am proud of my children’s achievements.

No one has an issue with achievement. They have issues with the borderline mental breakdown-level of obsession with getting into certain institutions because those institutions are “elite” and convey “status.” And with the lack of perspective, especially amongst the parents who should know better, to understand that there are many, many successful people who didn’t go that route. Because ultimately it is just one small piece of the puzzle.

How do you know someone is having breakdown level obsession around getting into certain institutions? Honestly, it just reads like your own kids are not competitive, you gave up, some other parents and kids are still in the running and that equals mental breakdown. Nobody is breaking down about not getting into Harvard, ok. They will be upset for a few days if they expected it, then they will move on.

OP here. I posted this because I know a family literally claiming to be in crisis and falling apart over a kid who appears to be headed for a state college.

This person likely knows you well enough to show you their raw feelings.

People fall apart over vanity, sports, promotions, anything really.

I wish there were anything actually self-aware about it. I’m just subjected to endless stream-of-consciousness anxious blather.

I’m Asian American and education is embedded in our culture. Education is respected and the level of school matters. I try not to care and I am very well aware that one can be successful and happy in life without attending a prestigious university. We still want our children to get the best education they can receive.

+++1

Prestigious is not nearly the same as best education.

You are shamefully hiding your social striving behind a cheap mask of "valuing education" and fooling no one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would secretly be upset if my child went to a state school. I would not openly freak out like OP is saying.

Your kid is non secretly upset with your parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in the peanut gallery watching several 1%ers in the college admissions process. It is INSANE. please folks get ahold of yourselves. Your super privileged kids are going to be fine.

So this confirms the help is eavesdropping on our private discussions.

The biglaw partners ARE the help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you think this is limited to the 1% you have blinkers on.

True but the point is it’s most insane for the 1%ers.

NO. It is easier for 1%. The degree to which it is "most insane" is entirely a dynamic they magic out of their own neuroses and has absolutely ZERO to do with actual limitations on their options.

The 1%ers who choose to go the route of massive donations or spending enormous sums on private school/test prep/college advising/etc. in order to guarantee their kids entry into one of a very narrow range of schools are just being stupid. That's it. It's a stupid game akin to the billionaires who compete over who has the biggest yacht. Only worse because in this scenario their children are the yachts and their educations are being used in a d*ck-measuring contest. Gross. But not actually that hard to opt out of. Just don't.

We are in the top 1% or .5%. I grew up as a poor immigrant kid. I was equally focused, if not more, than my current high school student. Education was my ticket out of poverty. There was no back up plan. My rich kid can go to any school and will probably do fine.

Ambition and striving are popular to put down on DCUM. I wonder if this is what non ambitious say. I hear this in real life from adults who come from family money, but are unimpressive themselves or have unimpressive children. They call the achieving people strivers and look down on them.

I am proud of my achievements. I am proud of my children’s achievements.

No one has an issue with achievement. They have issues with the borderline mental breakdown-level of obsession with getting into certain institutions because those institutions are “elite” and convey “status.” And with the lack of perspective, especially amongst the parents who should know better, to understand that there are many, many successful people who didn’t go that route. Because ultimately it is just one small piece of the puzzle.

How do you know someone is having breakdown level obsession around getting into certain institutions? Honestly, it just reads like your own kids are not competitive, you gave up, some other parents and kids are still in the running and that equals mental breakdown. Nobody is breaking down about not getting into Harvard, ok. They will be upset for a few days if they expected it, then they will move on.

OP here. I posted this because I know a family literally claiming to be in crisis and falling apart over a kid who appears to be headed for a state college.

This person likely knows you well enough to show you their raw feelings.

People fall apart over vanity, sports, promotions, anything really.

I wish there were anything actually self-aware about it. I’m just subjected to endless stream-of-consciousness anxious blather.

I’m Asian American and education is embedded in our culture. Education is respected and the level of school matters. I try not to care and I am very well aware that one can be successful and happy in life without attending a prestigious university. We still want our children to get the best education they can receive.

+++1

Prestigious is not nearly the same as best education.

You are shamefully hiding your social striving behind a cheap mask of "valuing education" and fooling no one.

+1

(Wait, sorry, I meant +++1)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, life would be much easier if we lived in bumble town North Dakota and my kid just applied to State U or Directional State U. I am somewhat envious of that.

But we are not there.

What? Are you disgruntled because you are a 1%er with a kid who wants to go to an elite school because of name and thinks their wealth makes them entitled ? Those days were over a generation ago. Mine are at different ivies. We are top3% income ie full pay & make it work because we saved. Most there are on aid. Smart is the new rich. Me and many of my elite college peers went there highly aided in the 90s, now we make enough for our kids to be full pay. Since they are as smart or smarter than we are they got in just fine no hooks (in fact their demographic is a bit of a negative yet they still got in). There are plenty of non elite but still T75 for 1% wealth who are not in the top% of smarts/talent.

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make, that your kids only got in because they are full pay? And you’re only 3 percent not 1 percent?

The point is that the wealthy families believe their kids are entitled to a spot in elite colleges purely by virtue of their wealth, and are besides themselves when they realize this is not true.

In your view, what makes the supposed "elite colleges" elite today?

They have the highest percent of the smartest kids so they can have a broad collection of truly challenging courses, yet small enough to know faculty. Additionally they have almost unlimited resources for the students, including but not limited to real research and international summer experiences. The mix leads to the best outcomes, provided the student is ready for the competition

The mix is missing Upper Middle Class kids. It's super wealthy and those that get "meets need" funding. Or UMC kids with grandparents paying tuition or parents with inheritances that don't need to save for retirement.

$250k or $300k/year family from NYC (or any other big city w HCOL) with parents in their 40s/early 50s with more than one kid are not spending $90k per year to send one kid to college, because then they can't afford to live (unless they've been at high income level for a very, very long time).

The donut hole is real, and sending their uber smart UMC kids to SEC honors programs (or other lower ranked schools) where they can get big $ scholarships. This changes everything because the best and brightest aren't necessarily at Ivies/T25s, a lot of them are at schools they can afford instead. (And I'd argue that the kid who takes a full ride scholarship to a lower ranked school is "smarter" than one who takes loans and/or drains his parents' savings to attend T25).

Heck, if my kid could get a full ride at a lesser ranked school, I was UMC full pay, and had the $ banked for Ivy or Ivy+ -- I think the smarter choice is taking the full ride to the 100th ranked school and giving the kid the cash to invest -- probably come out WAY, WAY ahead (unless the goal is IB).

nah. we are doing it so are neighbors here and cousins in DMV. we are in a top public magnet high school in NJ/NY area and did not overspend, 53 yrs old. full pay for 2 kids is not going to be that hard with 300k with reasonable savings over the 18 years. once over 400k it is frankly cash-flowable. the so called donut hole is a small and overly whiny hole filled with folks who did not save much and overspend on housing and vacations. the top schools often pay some aid to people in the upper 200s without a lot of assets.

Point is there are many extremely smart kids (near perfect SAT with little/no prep types) that have no hope of attending ivies or ivy + bc of the cost.

CSS calculations don’t care if you’ve made $300k/yr for the past 20 years or if you made $100k/yr until 2 years ago. Big difference. Most donut hole families are recent to high income, or small business owners.

Regardless, my point stands, the best and brightest are not all going to ivys. Low income smart kids and high income/wealthy smart/smartish kids. But not necessarily the cream of the crop, bc it’s not affordable. Ivys and ivy plus are not economically diverse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had a client with a net worth of $20MM+. Client was crazy worried about his DC's university and career prospects. I asked why worry (given the net worth). Client responded that the $20MM can vanish in a heartbeat.

However, realistically, a Harvard degree's worth is more likely to vanish in heartbeat (because of drugs, mental breakdown, lack of ambition).

Anyone who think 20MM can vanish "in a heartbeat" is doing it wrong.

My parents are worth about that and they have two kids with a ton of issues (no careers of note, drug/alcohol problems, divorce, etc.) and they still don't worry their money will vanish. And that's even with helping my siblings out a lot. Once you hit 5MM you gain a lot of freedom in how you invest and protect your assets. Even with problem children you don't have worry about much with 20MM. Also you can do what my parents are doing and view your charitable giving as your legacy instead of assuming your kids will be it (I'm the successful child but as as a result I genuinely do not need their money).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, life would be much easier if we lived in bumble town North Dakota and my kid just applied to State U or Directional State U. I am somewhat envious of that.

But we are not there.

If it really would have been easier, you would have moved there and taken the commensurate pay cut.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I had a client with a net worth of $20MM+. Client was crazy worried about his DC's university and career prospects. I asked why worry (given the net worth). Client responded that the $20MM can vanish in a heartbeat.

However, realistically, a Harvard degree's worth is more likely to vanish in heartbeat (because of drugs, mental breakdown, lack of ambition).

Anyone who think 20MM can vanish "in a heartbeat" is doing it wrong.

My parents are worth about that and they have two kids with a ton of issues (no careers of note, drug/alcohol problems, divorce, etc.) and they still don't worry their money will vanish. And that's even with helping my siblings out a lot. Once you hit 5MM you gain a lot of freedom in how you invest and protect your assets. Even with problem children you don't have worry about much with 20MM. Also you can do what my parents are doing and view your charitable giving as your legacy instead of assuming your kids will be it (I'm the successful child but as as a result I genuinely do not need their money).

you clearly haven't had a family member diagnosed with cancer

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If you think this is limited to the 1% you have blinkers on.

True but the point is it’s most insane for the 1%ers.

NO. It is easier for 1%. The degree to which it is "most insane" is entirely a dynamic they magic out of their own neuroses and has absolutely ZERO to do with actual limitations on their options.

The 1%ers who choose to go the route of massive donations or spending enormous sums on private school/test prep/college advising/etc. in order to guarantee their kids entry into one of a very narrow range of schools are just being stupid. That's it. It's a stupid game akin to the billionaires who compete over who has the biggest yacht. Only worse because in this scenario their children are the yachts and their educations are being used in a d*ck-measuring contest. Gross. But not actually that hard to opt out of. Just don't.

We are in the top 1% or .5%. I grew up as a poor immigrant kid. I was equally focused, if not more, than my current high school student. Education was my ticket out of poverty. There was no back up plan. My rich kid can go to any school and will probably do fine.

Ambition and striving are popular to put down on DCUM. I wonder if this is what non ambitious say. I hear this in real life from adults who come from family money, but are unimpressive themselves or have unimpressive children. They call the achieving people strivers and look down on them.

I am proud of my achievements. I am proud of my children’s achievements.

No one has an issue with achievement. They have issues with the borderline mental breakdown-level of obsession with getting into certain institutions because those institutions are “elite” and convey “status.” And with the lack of perspective, especially amongst the parents who should know better, to understand that there are many, many successful people who didn’t go that route. Because ultimately it is just one small piece of the puzzle.

How do you know someone is having breakdown level obsession around getting into certain institutions? Honestly, it just reads like your own kids are not competitive, you gave up, some other parents and kids are still in the running and that equals mental breakdown. Nobody is breaking down about not getting into Harvard, ok. They will be upset for a few days if they expected it, then they will move on.

OP here. I posted this because I know a family literally claiming to be in crisis and falling apart over a kid who appears to be headed for a state college.

This person likely knows you well enough to show you their raw feelings.

People fall apart over vanity, sports, promotions, anything really.

I wish there were anything actually self-aware about it. I’m just subjected to endless stream-of-consciousness anxious blather.

I’m Asian American and education is embedded in our culture. Education is respected and the level of school matters. I try not to care and I am very well aware that one can be successful and happy in life without attending a prestigious university. We still want our children to get the best education they can receive.

+++1

Prestigious is not nearly the same as best education.

You are shamefully hiding your social striving behind a cheap mask of "valuing education" and fooling no one.

Can you name a school with an education at the level of HYPSM/WASP with a ranking outside T100?