Current experience at Stuart Hobson?

[Anonymous]

If student experiences were the guiding factor, SH would do well among feeder grads I know. I do think SH’s larger pool of on grade level kids probably matters to their internal perception & the fact that UMC kids are less self-selecting (EH, in my experience, is largely a very specific type of UMC kid; SH the aperture is a little broader). I actually worry a little that EH doesn’t have more CAPE 5s because basically all the Maury grads I know there had 5s in ES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is now at both EH and SH approximately 30 students in each grade who get 4s and 5s on the CAPE math test. That is a cohort. Is Latin better? Most would say yes and especially yes if you care about having a decent high school locked in. But it is also now a very difficult lottery spot to land. Is Hardy better? Most would say yes but it is also a pretty lengthy daily commute from the eastern side of the city even with a lottery spot. Basis is pretty controversial - and the 5th grade waitlist movement and 7th-9th grade attrition there both speak to that. I think its increasingly common to not get into Latin, turn down Basis, and try a Hill area dcps middle school.

Sorry but 30 students who are grade level and above is good?? Grade level is the floor. Please let us know how many kids at SH and EH actually are above grade level. 4 or 5?

The data works out to about 3 kids who are above grade level.

Summary, there are no cohort of high performing kids in math at either schools.

Not sure where you are getting the 3 from?
For the sake of all the children in DC (not my own) do I wish they were all on grade level? Yes - bc it would positively impact their future academic years and beyond.
In the end of the day there seems to be two camps of people on this forum who have different perspectives/approaches to education, and like our super polarized world it seems like there is it is hard to get people to see their other perspective.
I will say two things (that I think have already been said...) My experience being at one of those two schools is that the teachers don't lower expectations, sadly some students do not complete or submit all assignments, but the essays, science projects, math tests, novels read, etc - they are on level and challenging. I am sure there are a lot of reasons why some work is not completed (absenteeism, missing some foundational skills etc) and that needs to be addressed to help those kids be successful, but it does not impact the quality of work/assignments the other kids are completing.
Second, and this seems really controversial on here for some reason, but it is really not helpful to define a whole school by looking at one CAPE/PARCC test score. Sure, it's all we have so I get why people look at it, and it does highlight overall trends and gaps, but for anybody who has worked in or is aware of what goes on in a school, it is far far far from an accurate way to capture what kids are actually learning/doing in a school.

Of course expectations are lowered when majority of kids are below grade level. We see that way earlier in upper elementary at title 1 schools.

I highly doubt it’s going to be any different and likely worst in middle school. If expectations were not lowered, then lots of these kids would not pass onto the next grade.

That’s the big issue in DCPS is social promotion. Nobody fails or gets held back, everyone moves on no matter what. Then deficiencies compound year after year and you are left with less then 5% of students on grade level by high school.

That "5% of students" number assumes that all of the students who are on grade level leave. Which historically may be the case at some schools. The interesting thing would be if they did not leave. Would still be a gap which would need to be addressed, but a larger cohort would travel though the grades, which I think is what we are seeing in some of the in bounds middle and high schools. The math my student is doing is challenging by any middle school standard, and the poetry, novels, and other ELA assignments impress me. Not to mention the other non-test subjects that people obsess less about.

And regards to the student conversations on sports teams, I have actually overheard some really interesting conversations among teammates where kids from various schools ask questions/learn about the things at the other schools that they had never heard before. In the end of the day there are lots of options that can work for lots of families, which I see as a good thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is now at both EH and SH approximately 30 students in each grade who get 4s and 5s on the CAPE math test. That is a cohort. Is Latin better? Most would say yes and especially yes if you care about having a decent high school locked in. But it is also now a very difficult lottery spot to land. Is Hardy better? Most would say yes but it is also a pretty lengthy daily commute from the eastern side of the city even with a lottery spot. Basis is pretty controversial - and the 5th grade waitlist movement and 7th-9th grade attrition there both speak to that. I think its increasingly common to not get into Latin, turn down Basis, and try a Hill area dcps middle school.

Sorry but 30 students who are grade level and above is good?? Grade level is the floor. Please let us know how many kids at SH and EH actually are above grade level. 4 or 5?

The data works out to about 3 kids who are above grade level.

Summary, there are no cohort of high performing kids in math at either schools.

Not sure where you are getting the 3 from?
For the sake of all the children in DC (not my own) do I wish they were all on grade level? Yes - bc it would positively impact their future academic years and beyond.
In the end of the day there seems to be two camps of people on this forum who have different perspectives/approaches to education, and like our super polarized world it seems like there is it is hard to get people to see their other perspective.
I will say two things (that I think have already been said...) My experience being at one of those two schools is that the teachers don't lower expectations, sadly some students do not complete or submit all assignments, but the essays, science projects, math tests, novels read, etc - they are on level and challenging. I am sure there are a lot of reasons why some work is not completed (absenteeism, missing some foundational skills etc) and that needs to be addressed to help those kids be successful, but it does not impact the quality of work/assignments the other kids are completing.
Second, and this seems really controversial on here for some reason, but it is really not helpful to define a whole school by looking at one CAPE/PARCC test score. Sure, it's all we have so I get why people look at it, and it does highlight overall trends and gaps, but for anybody who has worked in or is aware of what goes on in a school, it is far far far from an accurate way to capture what kids are actually learning/doing in a school.

Of course expectations are lowered when majority of kids are below grade level. We see that way earlier in upper elementary at title 1 schools.

I highly doubt it’s going to be any different and likely worst in middle school. If expectations were not lowered, then lots of these kids would not pass onto the next grade.

That’s the big issue in DCPS is social promotion. Nobody fails or gets held back, everyone moves on no matter what. Then deficiencies compound year after year and you are left with less then 5% of students on grade level by high school.

Totally agree. This is what I heard straight from the mouth of a DCPS middle school teacher. She said she isn't allowed to fail kids, which means, for example, if she assigns something, and they don't turn it in , she's not allowed to give them a zero. She has to manufacture a passing grade for everyone student, even when they are clearly not doing anything or learning. As a result, the assignment really is not actually required of any of kids. Of course that lowers the standards.

The deficiencies do compound, which is how you end up with a high school degree that is meaningless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is now at both EH and SH approximately 30 students in each grade who get 4s and 5s on the CAPE math test. That is a cohort. Is Latin better? Most would say yes and especially yes if you care about having a decent high school locked in. But it is also now a very difficult lottery spot to land. Is Hardy better? Most would say yes but it is also a pretty lengthy daily commute from the eastern side of the city even with a lottery spot. Basis is pretty controversial - and the 5th grade waitlist movement and 7th-9th grade attrition there both speak to that. I think its increasingly common to not get into Latin, turn down Basis, and try a Hill area dcps middle school.

Sorry but 30 students who are grade level and above is good?? Grade level is the floor. Please let us know how many kids at SH and EH actually are above grade level. 4 or 5?

The data works out to about 3 kids who are above grade level.

Summary, there are no cohort of high performing kids in math at either schools.

Not sure where you are getting the 3 from?
For the sake of all the children in DC (not my own) do I wish they were all on grade level? Yes - bc it would positively impact their future academic years and beyond.
In the end of the day there seems to be two camps of people on this forum who have different perspectives/approaches to education, and like our super polarized world it seems like there is it is hard to get people to see their other perspective.
I will say two things (that I think have already been said...) My experience being at one of those two schools is that the teachers don't lower expectations, sadly some students do not complete or submit all assignments, but the essays, science projects, math tests, novels read, etc - they are on level and challenging. I am sure there are a lot of reasons why some work is not completed (absenteeism, missing some foundational skills etc) and that needs to be addressed to help those kids be successful, but it does not impact the quality of work/assignments the other kids are completing.
Second, and this seems really controversial on here for some reason, but it is really not helpful to define a whole school by looking at one CAPE/PARCC test score. Sure, it's all we have so I get why people look at it, and it does highlight overall trends and gaps, but for anybody who has worked in or is aware of what goes on in a school, it is far far far from an accurate way to capture what kids are actually learning/doing in a school.

The only public school in DC that doesn’t socially promote is BASIS DC.

Not surprising that they have the highest test scores of any non-selective school in the city.


Of course expectations are lowered when majority of kids are below grade level. We see that way earlier in upper elementary at title 1 schools.

I highly doubt it’s going to be any different and likely worst in middle school. If expectations were not lowered, then lots of these kids would not pass onto the next grade.

That’s the big issue in DCPS is social promotion. Nobody fails or gets held back, everyone moves on no matter what. Then deficiencies compound year after year and you are left with less then 5% of students on grade level by high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If student experiences were the guiding factor, SH would do well among feeder grads I know. I do think SH’s larger pool of on grade level kids probably matters to their internal perception & the fact that UMC kids are less self-selecting (EH, in my experience, is largely a very specific type of UMC kid; SH the aperture is a little broader). I actually worry a little that EH doesn’t have more CAPE 5s because basically all the Maury grads I know there had 5s in ES.

The Maury kids I know who had 5s left for Latin and private schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If student experiences were the guiding factor, SH would do well among feeder grads I know. I do think SH’s larger pool of on grade level kids probably matters to their internal perception & the fact that UMC kids are less self-selecting (EH, in my experience, is largely a very specific type of UMC kid; SH the aperture is a little broader). I actually worry a little that EH doesn’t have more CAPE 5s because basically all the Maury grads I know there had 5s in ES.

The Maury kids I know who had 5s left for Latin and private schools.

How many Maury kids do you know? And how do you know their PARCC/CAPE scores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If student experiences were the guiding factor, SH would do well among feeder grads I know. I do think SH’s larger pool of on grade level kids probably matters to their internal perception & the fact that UMC kids are less self-selecting (EH, in my experience, is largely a very specific type of UMC kid; SH the aperture is a little broader). I actually worry a little that EH doesn’t have more CAPE 5s because basically all the Maury grads I know there had 5s in ES.

The Maury kids I know who had 5s left for Latin and private schools.

How many Maury kids do you know? And how do you know their PARCC/CAPE scores?

Considering we (Maury parents) never even got our last set of PARCC scores, it’s really interesting to me that this anon poster knows all of them. maybe she can look up my kid’s scores 😂

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is now at both EH and SH approximately 30 students in each grade who get 4s and 5s on the CAPE math test. That is a cohort. Is Latin better? Most would say yes and especially yes if you care about having a decent high school locked in. But it is also now a very difficult lottery spot to land. Is Hardy better? Most would say yes but it is also a pretty lengthy daily commute from the eastern side of the city even with a lottery spot. Basis is pretty controversial - and the 5th grade waitlist movement and 7th-9th grade attrition there both speak to that. I think its increasingly common to not get into Latin, turn down Basis, and try a Hill area dcps middle school.

Sorry but 30 students who are grade level and above is good?? Grade level is the floor. Please let us know how many kids at SH and EH actually are above grade level. 4 or 5?

The data works out to about 3 kids who are above grade level.

Summary, there are no cohort of high performing kids in math at either schools.

Not sure where you are getting the 3 from?
For the sake of all the children in DC (not my own) do I wish they were all on grade level? Yes - bc it would positively impact their future academic years and beyond.
In the end of the day there seems to be two camps of people on this forum who have different perspectives/approaches to education, and like our super polarized world it seems like there is it is hard to get people to see their other perspective.
I will say two things (that I think have already been said...) My experience being at one of those two schools is that the teachers don't lower expectations, sadly some students do not complete or submit all assignments, but the essays, science projects, math tests, novels read, etc - they are on level and challenging. I am sure there are a lot of reasons why some work is not completed (absenteeism, missing some foundational skills etc) and that needs to be addressed to help those kids be successful, but it does not impact the quality of work/assignments the other kids are completing.
Second, and this seems really controversial on here for some reason, but it is really not helpful to define a whole school by looking at one CAPE/PARCC test score. Sure, it's all we have so I get why people look at it, and it does highlight overall trends and gaps, but for anybody who has worked in or is aware of what goes on in a school, it is far far far from an accurate way to capture what kids are actually learning/doing in a school.

Of course expectations are lowered when majority of kids are below grade level. We see that way earlier in upper elementary at title 1 schools.

I highly doubt it’s going to be any different and likely worst in middle school. If expectations were not lowered, then lots of these kids would not pass onto the next grade.

That’s the big issue in DCPS is social promotion. Nobody fails or gets held back, everyone moves on no matter what. Then deficiencies compound year after year and you are left with less then 5% of students on grade level by high school.

Totally agree. This is what I heard straight from the mouth of a DCPS middle school teacher. She said she isn't allowed to fail kids, which means, for example, if she assigns something, and they don't turn it in , she's not allowed to give them a zero. She has to manufacture a passing grade for everyone student, even when they are clearly not doing anything or learning. As a result, the assignment really is not actually required of any of kids. Of course that lowers the standards.

The deficiencies do compound, which is how you end up with a high school degree that is meaningless.

you’ll be amazed to know EH actually gives Ds and Fs!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is now at both EH and SH approximately 30 students in each grade who get 4s and 5s on the CAPE math test. That is a cohort. Is Latin better? Most would say yes and especially yes if you care about having a decent high school locked in. But it is also now a very difficult lottery spot to land. Is Hardy better? Most would say yes but it is also a pretty lengthy daily commute from the eastern side of the city even with a lottery spot. Basis is pretty controversial - and the 5th grade waitlist movement and 7th-9th grade attrition there both speak to that. I think its increasingly common to not get into Latin, turn down Basis, and try a Hill area dcps middle school.

Sorry but 30 students who are grade level and above is good?? Grade level is the floor. Please let us know how many kids at SH and EH actually are above grade level. 4 or 5?

The data works out to about 3 kids who are above grade level.

Summary, there are no cohort of high performing kids in math at either schools.

Not sure where you are getting the 3 from?
For the sake of all the children in DC (not my own) do I wish they were all on grade level? Yes - bc it would positively impact their future academic years and beyond.
In the end of the day there seems to be two camps of people on this forum who have different perspectives/approaches to education, and like our super polarized world it seems like there is it is hard to get people to see their other perspective.
I will say two things (that I think have already been said...) My experience being at one of those two schools is that the teachers don't lower expectations, sadly some students do not complete or submit all assignments, but the essays, science projects, math tests, novels read, etc - they are on level and challenging. I am sure there are a lot of reasons why some work is not completed (absenteeism, missing some foundational skills etc) and that needs to be addressed to help those kids be successful, but it does not impact the quality of work/assignments the other kids are completing.
Second, and this seems really controversial on here for some reason, but it is really not helpful to define a whole school by looking at one CAPE/PARCC test score. Sure, it's all we have so I get why people look at it, and it does highlight overall trends and gaps, but for anybody who has worked in or is aware of what goes on in a school, it is far far far from an accurate way to capture what kids are actually learning/doing in a school.

Of course expectations are lowered when majority of kids are below grade level. We see that way earlier in upper elementary at title 1 schools.

I highly doubt it’s going to be any different and likely worst in middle school. If expectations were not lowered, then lots of these kids would not pass onto the next grade.

That’s the big issue in DCPS is social promotion. Nobody fails or gets held back, everyone moves on no matter what. Then deficiencies compound year after year and you are left with less then 5% of students on grade level by high school.

Totally agree. This is what I heard straight from the mouth of a DCPS middle school teacher. She said she isn't allowed to fail kids, which means, for example, if she assigns something, and they don't turn it in , she's not allowed to give them a zero. She has to manufacture a passing grade for everyone student, even when they are clearly not doing anything or learning. As a result, the assignment really is not actually required of any of kids. Of course that lowers the standards.

The deficiencies do compound, which is how you end up with a high school degree that is meaningless.

you’ll be amazed to know EH actually gives Ds and Fs!

I'm sure they do! Do kids who get Fs in 6th grade get to love on to 7th grade?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is now at both EH and SH approximately 30 students in each grade who get 4s and 5s on the CAPE math test. That is a cohort. Is Latin better? Most would say yes and especially yes if you care about having a decent high school locked in. But it is also now a very difficult lottery spot to land. Is Hardy better? Most would say yes but it is also a pretty lengthy daily commute from the eastern side of the city even with a lottery spot. Basis is pretty controversial - and the 5th grade waitlist movement and 7th-9th grade attrition there both speak to that. I think its increasingly common to not get into Latin, turn down Basis, and try a Hill area dcps middle school.

Sorry but 30 students who are grade level and above is good?? Grade level is the floor. Please let us know how many kids at SH and EH actually are above grade level. 4 or 5?

The data works out to about 3 kids who are above grade level.

Summary, there are no cohort of high performing kids in math at either schools.

Not sure where you are getting the 3 from?
For the sake of all the children in DC (not my own) do I wish they were all on grade level? Yes - bc it would positively impact their future academic years and beyond.
In the end of the day there seems to be two camps of people on this forum who have different perspectives/approaches to education, and like our super polarized world it seems like there is it is hard to get people to see their other perspective.
I will say two things (that I think have already been said...) My experience being at one of those two schools is that the teachers don't lower expectations, sadly some students do not complete or submit all assignments, but the essays, science projects, math tests, novels read, etc - they are on level and challenging. I am sure there are a lot of reasons why some work is not completed (absenteeism, missing some foundational skills etc) and that needs to be addressed to help those kids be successful, but it does not impact the quality of work/assignments the other kids are completing.
Second, and this seems really controversial on here for some reason, but it is really not helpful to define a whole school by looking at one CAPE/PARCC test score. Sure, it's all we have so I get why people look at it, and it does highlight overall trends and gaps, but for anybody who has worked in or is aware of what goes on in a school, it is far far far from an accurate way to capture what kids are actually learning/doing in a school.

Of course expectations are lowered when majority of kids are below grade level. We see that way earlier in upper elementary at title 1 schools.

I highly doubt it’s going to be any different and likely worst in middle school. If expectations were not lowered, then lots of these kids would not pass onto the next grade.

That’s the big issue in DCPS is social promotion. Nobody fails or gets held back, everyone moves on no matter what. Then deficiencies compound year after year and you are left with less then 5% of students on grade level by high school.

Totally agree. This is what I heard straight from the mouth of a DCPS middle school teacher. She said she isn't allowed to fail kids, which means, for example, if she assigns something, and they don't turn it in , she's not allowed to give them a zero. She has to manufacture a passing grade for everyone student, even when they are clearly not doing anything or learning. As a result, the assignment really is not actually required of any of kids. Of course that lowers the standards.

The deficiencies do compound, which is how you end up with a high school degree that is meaningless.

you’ll be amazed to know EH actually gives Ds and Fs!

I'm sure they do! Do kids who get Fs in 6th grade get to love on to 7th grade?

Yes!

[Anonymous]

Yes, you have to get more than 3 Fs to fail a grade in DCPS. You can also make those up in summer school, and as long as you get a D there, you pass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to get more than 3 Fs to fail a grade in DCPS. You can also make those up in summer school, and as long as you get a D there, you pass.

I know this is going too much into the weeds for this thread, and most people on here are focused on their child and their child's cohort, but making kids repeat grades (especially more than once, or if they are already old for their grade) has been proven to hurt the situation further. Having older kids in younger grades is not the solution.
Mandatory summer classes, or other types of classes in the next grade for remediation may work, because a kid who failed a class the previous year will be lost, confused, and not learn much in the next course in the sequence, furthering the likely hood of failure/not showing up in that next class as well. IMO the emphasis/focus needs to be on how to help those kids get what they need to graduate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to get more than 3 Fs to fail a grade in DCPS. You can also make those up in summer school, and as long as you get a D there, you pass.

I know this is going too much into the weeds for this thread, and most people on here are focused on their child and their child's cohort, but making kids repeat grades (especially more than once, or if they are already old for their grade) has been proven to hurt the situation further. Having older kids in younger grades is not the solution.
Mandatory summer classes, or other types of classes in the next grade for remediation may work, because a kid who failed a class the previous year will be lost, confused, and not learn much in the next course in the sequence, furthering the likely hood of failure/not showing up in that next class as well. IMO the emphasis/focus needs to be on how to help those kids get what they need to graduate.

Sure but do you see DCPS trying to do anything at all? Mandatory summer classes - no. Extend school year for bottom - no. Mandatory after school tutoring - no. Remediation classes - no, can’t do that because it’s tracking.

What does DCPS do? Socially promote all the kids. Lower the top to try to narrow the achievement gap instead of trying to bring up the bottom. Case in point is the home stay program. This program would absolutely help the kids spanish because it is real, full immersion. Take it away and the opportunity for the potential for stronger spanish learning is gone. Big missed opportunity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to get more than 3 Fs to fail a grade in DCPS. You can also make those up in summer school, and as long as you get a D there, you pass.

I know this is going too much into the weeds for this thread, and most people on here are focused on their child and their child's cohort, but making kids repeat grades (especially more than once, or if they are already old for their grade) has been proven to hurt the situation further. Having older kids in younger grades is not the solution.
Mandatory summer classes, or other types of classes in the next grade for remediation may work, because a kid who failed a class the previous year will be lost, confused, and not learn much in the next course in the sequence, furthering the likely hood of failure/not showing up in that next class as well. IMO the emphasis/focus needs to be on how to help those kids get what they need to graduate.

Nope.

https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/is-social-promotion-crippling-our-childrens-future-the-debate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You should let her go. My kid is at EH and the benefits of walking to school and continuity with ES friends is enormous. They get to grow in independence and they will not be harmed by being in school with less homogeneity.

EH is much more homogeneous than BASIS or the Latins