Anyone have a high stats kid who ended up at their true safety school?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Yes. Friend was NMSF, 1590, top 5%, tons of rigor including AP Stat and BC Calc. Applied nursing to UVA and UNC from oos. Thought scores were good enough so didn't try elsewhere. Ended up at state university but not even in nursing program.
Now....mistake was only having two reaches. And nursing makes everything unsafe.

OOS is always a crapshoot, sure, but instate, Nursing

If she's not getting into nursing instate, who is?!

Is she permanently blocked from nursing, or just has to apply after first year?

Direct entry nursing is VERY competitive. I am in another state with our flagship acceptance rate of 65% but the BSN has 6% acceptance rate. I am sure UVA nursing is even more difficult to get into. I don't know who actually get in. People on DCUM don't really talk about nursing programs.

This is really interesting to me. I thought nursing was like teaching. Isn't there a shortage of well-trained nurses? Why aren't the programs expanding?

I likewise thought the same and had my eyes opened when DC went thru the application process this past cycle. Direct admit is indeed difficult and some schools don’t even offer it.

It’s just one of the reasons DC took a direct slot at a lower-ranked school (that still has a Level 1 trauma teaching hospital on campus). While it’s “direct,” it is still dependent on a 3.0 in certain prescribed classes like chemistry and biology. Didn’t want to have to “apply” yet again next Spring.

After much conversation with family and friends who are RNs, we’re still unsure it’s worthy of a $100K+ (total) degree when, as has also been pointed out here on DCUM, that the undergrad diploma location is largely a shoulder-shrug. DC has aspirations of NP or PA so it’s as much of a “see how it goes” as the actual degree. Plus, DC worked their a$$ off to have good enough grades, scores and ECs to get enough merit to keep the cost <= any other STEM (where the “M” could mean Medical) degree that has a lot of post-grad and occupational options.

So we are their biggest cheering section, atm.

DP. We know someone in the same situation and were wondering (to ourselves) why the student didn't simply go to a less expensive in-state university for nursing. It really doesn't matter where you go for undergrad nursing.

Why are people so mystified that someone might pay more than the bare minimum for a degree? Do people always go with the cheapest option when they pay for a house, car, wedding ring, watch, suit, vacation, bottle of wine, computer, TV, or dinner?

Unless you have a lot of money, yes, people on budgets go for the cheaper house, ring, tv, dinner, etc...

Also, that dinner is like $50, compared to $85K+ per year. Splurging on a nice tv, or vacation is not the same as spending that much money for a college education that you pay for four years.

How privileged you are to not realize this. Perhaps you should get out of your bubble, just a bit.

Yes, but the point is, some people have the money to spend. Maybe it's grandparents' money (often it is), maybe they've just saved forever, whatever. Maybe they just have one kid and this is what they want to spend it on. That people have different spending priorities should not be so shocking.

Personally, we are spending money on a more expensive, selective college for our oldest and I have a close friend with similar earnings who spends more money on houses, cars, vacations, spas, etc., who I know finds it silly. I didn't say anything when they made their kid choose a far less selective state school over the private he really wanted. It's all about choices.

The vast majority of colleges aren't worth $60K+/year from an ROI standpoint.

Your priority is spending money on your kid's college experience; others prioritize their vacations, or in our case, retirement.

Personally, I think it's silly to spend that much money on college just for the 4 years of that particular college experience. If they want to experience being out of state, they can get a job out of state and experience that. Heck, DH got a job across the pond to experience being out of the country.

Generally, people spend 10+ years in their house, so I can understand wanting a nice house. It also appreciates better.

I don't drive nice cars or buy name brand clothes, but we do prioritize experiences like traveling, and retirement.

The outcome for a kid who went to a $40K school vs most $60K+ school for the same major isn't all that different.

Again, that's your opinion. It's not all about the "outcome" -- which I assume you mean is the job? People have different amounts of money and value it different ways. I genuinely believe you make different kinds of connections and relationships in different schools settings that follow you all your life, for example. That's worth the money to me. You can do what you want with your money.

Well duh, but the vast majority of people do need to think about ROI. If you only care about the MRS degree, then sure. But outside T20, the vast majority of colleges aren't worth that much money in terms of career and income outcomes.

You’re hyper focussed on quantifiable numeric returns. The easiest to pinpoint probably (eg, salary at year 1 and salary at year 4). We get that.

A lot of us, especially in DC and NYC (note: DC does not include NoVa. It’s DC) are less observant with plotting ROI data on a graph as the only metric. We can afford to prioritize softer criteria.

eh.. a lot of us in the DC area cannot afford to not think about ROI. Read through the forum about college costs.

And certainly the vast majority of parents in America need to think about ROI.

you realize that not everyone on this forum is from the DC area or NY, right?)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Yes. Friend was NMSF, 1590, top 5%, tons of rigor including AP Stat and BC Calc. Applied nursing to UVA and UNC from oos. Thought scores were good enough so didn't try elsewhere. Ended up at state university but not even in nursing program.
Now....mistake was only having two reaches. And nursing makes everything unsafe.

OOS is always a crapshoot, sure, but instate, Nursing

If she's not getting into nursing instate, who is?!

Is she permanently blocked from nursing, or just has to apply after first year?

Direct entry nursing is VERY competitive. I am in another state with our flagship acceptance rate of 65% but the BSN has 6% acceptance rate. I am sure UVA nursing is even more difficult to get into. I don't know who actually get in. People on DCUM don't really talk about nursing programs.

This is really interesting to me. I thought nursing was like teaching. Isn't there a shortage of well-trained nurses? Why aren't the programs expanding?

I likewise thought the same and had my eyes opened when DC went thru the application process this past cycle. Direct admit is indeed difficult and some schools don’t even offer it.

It’s just one of the reasons DC took a direct slot at a lower-ranked school (that still has a Level 1 trauma teaching hospital on campus). While it’s “direct,” it is still dependent on a 3.0 in certain prescribed classes like chemistry and biology. Didn’t want to have to “apply” yet again next Spring.

After much conversation with family and friends who are RNs, we’re still unsure it’s worthy of a $100K+ (total) degree when, as has also been pointed out here on DCUM, that the undergrad diploma location is largely a shoulder-shrug. DC has aspirations of NP or PA so it’s as much of a “see how it goes” as the actual degree. Plus, DC worked their a$$ off to have good enough grades, scores and ECs to get enough merit to keep the cost <= any other STEM (where the “M” could mean Medical) degree that has a lot of post-grad and occupational options.

So we are their biggest cheering section, atm.

DP. We know someone in the same situation and were wondering (to ourselves) why the student didn't simply go to a less expensive in-state university for nursing. It really doesn't matter where you go for undergrad nursing.

Why are people so mystified that someone might pay more than the bare minimum for a degree? Do people always go with the cheapest option when they pay for a house, car, wedding ring, watch, suit, vacation, bottle of wine, computer, TV, or dinner?

Unless you have a lot of money, yes, people on budgets go for the cheaper house, ring, tv, dinner, etc...

Also, that dinner is like $50, compared to $85K+ per year. Splurging on a nice tv, or vacation is not the same as spending that much money for a college education that you pay for four years.

How privileged you are to not realize this. Perhaps you should get out of your bubble, just a bit.

Yes, but the point is, some people have the money to spend. Maybe it's grandparents' money (often it is), maybe they've just saved forever, whatever. Maybe they just have one kid and this is what they want to spend it on. That people have different spending priorities should not be so shocking.

Personally, we are spending money on a more expensive, selective college for our oldest and I have a close friend with similar earnings who spends more money on houses, cars, vacations, spas, etc., who I know finds it silly. I didn't say anything when they made their kid choose a far less selective state school over the private he really wanted. It's all about choices.

The vast majority of colleges aren't worth $60K+/year from an ROI standpoint.

Your priority is spending money on your kid's college experience; others prioritize their vacations, or in our case, retirement.

Personally, I think it's silly to spend that much money on college just for the 4 years of that particular college experience. If they want to experience being out of state, they can get a job out of state and experience that. Heck, DH got a job across the pond to experience being out of the country.

Generally, people spend 10+ years in their house, so I can understand wanting a nice house. It also appreciates better.

I don't drive nice cars or buy name brand clothes, but we do prioritize experiences like traveling, and retirement.

The outcome for a kid who went to a $40K school vs most $60K+ school for the same major isn't all that different.

Again, that's your opinion. It's not all about the "outcome" -- which I assume you mean is the job? People have different amounts of money and value it different ways. I genuinely believe you make different kinds of connections and relationships in different schools settings that follow you all your life, for example. That's worth the money to me. You can do what you want with your money.

Well duh, but the vast majority of people do need to think about ROI. If you only care about the MRS degree, then sure. But outside T20, the vast majority of colleges aren't worth that much money in terms of career and income outcomes.

You’re hyper focussed on quantifiable numeric returns. The easiest to pinpoint probably (eg, salary at year 1 and salary at year 4). We get that.

A lot of us, especially in DC and NYC (note: DC does not include NoVa. It’s DC) are less observant with plotting ROI data on a graph as the only metric. We can afford to prioritize softer criteria.

eh.. a lot of us in the DC area cannot afford to not think about ROI. Read through the forum about college costs.

And certainly the vast majority of parents in America need to think about ROI.

you realize that not everyone on this forum is from the DC area or NY, right?)

ROI is hard to quantify and to me encompasses softer criteria as well as the hard numbers. So we saw it as striking the right balance for the particular kid's desires, career goals, our budgets.

#1 was easy -- VT was his #1 choice but was also a safety (based on acceptance rate for his major) and he's taking one of the highest starting-salary majors at the school. He had no interest in spending more, applying to other schools, has been very happy and as a senior has a job waiting for after graduation. In two years will have more than earned what his education cost.

#2 was more challenging - wants to go into a career field that's not very high paying but valuable and something she has a real passion for. Wanted a LAC environment, will need to go to grad school, college prestige doesn't seem to be an important factor in this field but experience is. So she goes to a regional LAC where her major is one of the school's biggest programs, they have some unique opportunities to get experience while in school, and she had an internship after 1st year with a college connection. She could have been competitive for highly ranked LACs but that would unreasonably stretch our budget so she picked a school that was a good fit and, after merit, costs similar to VT. She could have gone to UMW for half the cost if all we cared about was out-of-pocket expense but the other elements (environment, strength of major, her desire to go OOS) also had value. But, they didn't have enough value that we'd have been willing to spend $60K+.

[Anonymous]

saw this on r/collegeresults.

it was surprising to me.

https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/1fyggrq/good_newsbad_news_from_a_parent_signing_off_from/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS had 4.0 GPA with 1590 SAT, and was accepted to an Ivy. He turned it down to attend George Mason on a full tuition+room/board scholarship because we would have to pay almost 85K per year, and we didn't receive any financial aid at the Ivy where he was accepted. Fast-forward to today, he is currently at UVA medical school.

Smart Choice!!!! Now he can graduate medical school without added debt from Undergrad (and possibly without much debt at all if you are able to help him).
Also, it is much easier to get high GPA, research, excellent recommendations at a "slightly lower ranked school" where your kid is Top Dog. THat's what med schools want to see. And in reality, where you go for undergrad does not affect medical school. It may just "seem that way" because people who can be full pay at Ivy are also the ones who can be full pay at medical school and don't have to search for the "most affordable medical school"

Sorry if this is a gumb question, but how did he go from george Mason to UVA

Because students from non Top 25 undergrads can easily get into top 50 medical schools.
Not that difficult to understand. Go to a school where you are in the top 15-20% and there is a real difference between the top 20% and the 50th percentile, and your kid will be able to do well, have an amazing gpa (if they put in the work) and have the connections to get excellent recommendations as a truly top undergrad student.

mUch harder to differentiate yourself at a school filled with strivers where everyone had a 3.9+ HS gpa and expects to always do well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:saw this on r/collegeresults.

it was surprising to me.

https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/1fyggrq/good_newsbad_news_from_a_parent_signing_off_from/

What exactly was surprising?

She got accepted at safety and targets. Everything else is a reach (with sub 20% acceptance rates or very close to it). So yeah, not shocking to get rejections from most or all of those. That is why you have targets and safeties

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A friend’s DD with an UW 4.0 and 1540 SAT got into zero colleges they applied. Not a single one. Obviously they didn’t have a true safety on the list but did have some schools ranked out of the top 50. They ended up scrambling and applying to rolling admission colleges in the UK and attended one.

That is absolutely bananas!!!

For sure, it is a different ballgame than when I applied 25 years ago. Wow! I will have to continue to learn more for my DC who is currently in middle school.

Does anyone expect this situation with college costs and acceptances to get better in the next few years?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:saw this on r/collegeresults.

it was surprising to me.

https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/1fyggrq/good_newsbad_news_from_a_parent_signing_off_from/

What exactly was surprising?

She got accepted at safety and targets. Everything else is a reach (with sub 20% acceptance rates or very close to it). So yeah, not shocking to get rejections from most or all of those. That is why you have targets and safeties

+1 this is to be expected. Really think about the psychological impact of applying to a lot of reaches and getting denial after denial after denial. Not fun. The search process really needs to focus on finding safeties and targets you feel really good about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:saw this on r/collegeresults.

it was surprising to me.

https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/1fyggrq/good_newsbad_news_from_a_parent_signing_off_from/

-sick as it may sound(?). Not surprising. EC's seemed blah, run of the mill, perhaps below avg for her cohort. Personal statement was possibly polarizing, risky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:saw this on r/collegeresults.

it was surprising to me.

https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/1fyggrq/good_newsbad_news_from_a_parent_signing_off_from/

ouch

[Anonymous]

Also, kid got into unc. That was a reach. Seems like a happy ending.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Yes, ended up at UMD for CS major, with merit.

They applied to 4 reaches, and 2 targets, and the one UMD safety.

1580 sat
4.0 uwgpa, 4.92 wgpa from a magnet program

They seem happy there and will do a 3+1 masters program. They are also a dual math major. So, they will graduate with 2 bachelors and 1 masters in four years, all for under $120K. Not too bad.

I know of another magnet student who also ended up in the same boat as my DC.

CS major is just tough.

I wouldn't call a computer science major at the #44 university with a top20 computer science program "true safety" by any definition of the phrase. Isn't that a reach for everyone?
i'm glad it worked out.

What makes you think the safeties and reaches are the same for everyone? Are you assuming the college application process is a true lottery? Your understanding is totally wrong.

Unless the acceptance rate into UMD (or anywhere) is 50%+, then it simply cannot be a "Safety" for anyone. The CS acceptance rate at UMD is around 16-20%. That makes it a REACH for literally everyone. Doesn't matter your stats. There will be plenty of Top stats kids who are rejected because they reject 80%+

Wrong. You either don’t know what a safety is or you don’t understand how college admissions work.

NP. A true safety *for a high stats student* has an acceptance rate well over 50%.

Again, you’re saying the chances for everyone should be the same, which is simply false. While safeties doesn’t mean guaranteed, but high stats kids have much better chance than their low stats counterparts.

No, I am saying that EVEN for a high stats student, the acceptance rate must be well over 50% for a true safety. Lower than that, there is too much uncertainty, not sufficient assurance of admission.

Note that many colleges in the 40 to 55 ish % range tend to yield protect. Call these low targets.

This is just not true. My kid had a 1600, 3 800 IIs, quite a few 5 APs, pretty good grades with maximum rigor and great extracurriculars with some national awards. Guidance counselor said Michigan, Wisconsin and 2 UCs were all true safeties for her because their admissions are very stats based and she plotted out as 95%+. (GC was right.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, ended up at UMD for CS major, with merit.

They applied to 4 reaches, and 2 targets, and the one UMD safety.

1580 sat
4.0 uwgpa, 4.92 wgpa from a magnet program

They seem happy there and will do a 3+1 masters program. They are also a dual math major. So, they will graduate with 2 bachelors and 1 masters in four years, all for under $120K. Not too bad.

I know of another magnet student who also ended up in the same boat as my DC.

CS major is just tough.

I wouldn't call a computer science major at the #44 university with a top20 computer science program "true safety" by any definition of the phrase. Isn't that a reach for everyone?
i'm glad it worked out.

What makes you think the safeties and reaches are the same for everyone? Are you assuming the college application process is a true lottery? Your understanding is totally wrong.

Unless the acceptance rate into UMD (or anywhere) is 50%+, then it simply cannot be a "Safety" for anyone. The CS acceptance rate at UMD is around 16-20%. That makes it a REACH for literally everyone. Doesn't matter your stats. There will be plenty of Top stats kids who are rejected because they reject 80%+

Wrong. You either don’t know what a safety is or you don’t understand how college admissions work.

NP. A true safety *for a high stats student* has an acceptance rate well over 50%.

Again, you’re saying the chances for everyone should be the same, which is simply false. While safeties doesn’t mean guaranteed, but high stats kids have much better chance than their low stats counterparts.

No, I am saying that EVEN for a high stats student, the acceptance rate must be well over 50% for a true safety. Lower than that, there is too much uncertainty, not sufficient assurance of admission.

Note that many colleges in the 40 to 55 ish % range tend to yield protect. Call these low targets.

This is just not true. My kid had a 1600, 3 800 IIs, quite a few 5 APs, pretty good grades with maximum rigor and great extracurriculars with some national awards. Guidance counselor said Michigan, Wisconsin and 2 UCs were all true safeties for her because their admissions are very stats based and she plotted out as 95%+. (GC was right.)

Just because your DD ended up getting into these schools does NOT mean that she had a 95% chance of getting in. That’s not how probability works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:saw this on r/collegeresults.

it was surprising to me.

https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/1fyggrq/good_newsbad_news_from_a_parent_signing_off_from/

-sick as it may sound(?). Not surprising. EC's seemed blah, run of the mill, perhaps below avg for her cohort. Personal statement was possibly polarizing, risky.

probably....
there's a lot of eye-opening stuff on r/collegeresults

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, ended up at UMD for CS major, with merit.

They applied to 4 reaches, and 2 targets, and the one UMD safety.

1580 sat
4.0 uwgpa, 4.92 wgpa from a magnet program

They seem happy there and will do a 3+1 masters program. They are also a dual math major. So, they will graduate with 2 bachelors and 1 masters in four years, all for under $120K. Not too bad.

I know of another magnet student who also ended up in the same boat as my DC.

CS major is just tough.

I wouldn't call a computer science major at the #44 university with a top20 computer science program "true safety" by any definition of the phrase. Isn't that a reach for everyone?
i'm glad it worked out.

What makes you think the safeties and reaches are the same for everyone? Are you assuming the college application process is a true lottery? Your understanding is totally wrong.

Unless the acceptance rate into UMD (or anywhere) is 50%+, then it simply cannot be a "Safety" for anyone. The CS acceptance rate at UMD is around 16-20%. That makes it a REACH for literally everyone. Doesn't matter your stats. There will be plenty of Top stats kids who are rejected because they reject 80%+

Wrong. You either don’t know what a safety is or you don’t understand how college admissions work.

NP. A true safety *for a high stats student* has an acceptance rate well over 50%.

Again, you’re saying the chances for everyone should be the same, which is simply false. While safeties doesn’t mean guaranteed, but high stats kids have much better chance than their low stats counterparts.

No, I am saying that EVEN for a high stats student, the acceptance rate must be well over 50% for a true safety. Lower than that, there is too much uncertainty, not sufficient assurance of admission.

Note that many colleges in the 40 to 55 ish % range tend to yield protect. Call these low targets.

This is just not true. My kid had a 1600, 3 800 IIs, quite a few 5 APs, pretty good grades with maximum rigor and great extracurriculars with some national awards. Guidance counselor said Michigan, Wisconsin and 2 UCs were all true safeties for her because their admissions are very stats based and she plotted out as 95%+. (GC was right.)

SAT IIs were discontinued in 2021.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:saw this on r/collegeresults.

it was surprising to me.

https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/1fyggrq/good_newsbad_news_from_a_parent_signing_off_from/

I looked at the post. My take is that the student's essays read as "hot mess"/"red flag" to the most elite schools. And in no way do I intend that to be homophobic. One essay was described as about a dead half-brother revelation (TMI, family business) and another as a campaign to undermine a school policy/program (there are more professional and impressive ways to advocate).

Very successful people can come from all circumstances and POVs. But they know what impresses an audience. I think the student may have been authentic but fell flat with elites that can be ultra-picky about candidates.