How the hell is anyone supposed to get into college now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is friendly with a kid who is one of the top 10 chess players in the country for his age. Near perfect GPA, SATs, and a boatload of other fairly impressive ECs. Advanced 3+ years in math, was taking college courses as a sophomore. Got rejected from Harvard. (Did get into Yale, but still - what else was Harvard looking for?)

Math geek/chess player is one of the most generic types of smart boy. Has been true for centuries.

It's unfortunate we don't value this type of student. Those who study, do activities, and positively contribute to their community. Watching the news this spring....take your pick.

I think the point was that this profile is presumably very common in the application pool, making it more difficult to stand out. Not they are not valued. The schools in question likely have many students that are similar to this profile, but they also want musicians, artists, humanities focused, athletes, etc.

We dont know the students intended major or the specifics of EC interests, but in this case Harvard decided they had this profile covered by other candidates they felt were a better fit and/or met the specific institutional priorities that had that year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like so many straight A students who were chief school newspaper editor, captain of a varsity sports team, volunteering, and more who can't even get to VA Tech. I don't know what people who get into schools like Michigan or the Ivy Leagues are doing in high school.

My daughter's friend who got into Yale was an Asian male with a very high wGPA who won Science Olympiad competitions and is an advanced string player.

Straight A doesn't mean anything, OP, you should know this. There is a world's difference between an A in a regular classs and an A in an AP class. Kids who get into the top colleges have 10+ APs, have a national level EC, etc. Your newpaper editing and team captainship worked a generation ago, but not today.

This is sounds exhausting. Kids have no time to be kids.

I am 44, and in my European country, high school was a stressful workathon culminating in one heck of a national exam week. I was so stressed out I couldn't eat on the first day of national exams. But that's nowhere near the worst. My cousins come from a country in Asia known for its teen suicide rate due to exam failure. Over there, when school ends for the day, the kids go to afternoon prep schools to cram. I know *elementary school kids* who had tutors to prepare for admission into the most prestigious afternoon prep schools!!! Separate from their regular school! HOW CRAZY IS THAT?!?

All to say: don't ever believe the US has it bad. I promise you, even for the kids who take grades seriously... it's still a layabout's paradise.

Huh? My NYC sibling had a tutor for her 2yo to prep for preschool admissions to get into the right preschool that would line up for the right elementary. That was over 20 years ago. She had two kids - one ended up graduating from Wash U and is unemployed. The other is at an Ivy.

One of my kids had a tutor by elementary. All had tutors in high school and SAT prep. All took multiple APs, as early as 9th grade. The thing about US education isn’t that it’s laid back - it’s that it’s very individual. It’s a huge country and getting into the top 10-15 schools is very hard - but no one will force you to do those things. There are a lot of less competitive options and that’s where most of the laid back kids will end up.

And yet mine and many others are in ivies, unhooked , and got into the "top" preK and elementary, and later magnet high school, based on testing with no tutor and no prep. Rose to the top. There are naturally intelligent , self-disciplined motivated and focused kids out there. The ivies are chock full of them. Why would any parent have their kid in a school they only could survive with tutoring?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like so many straight A students who were chief school newspaper editor, captain of a varsity sports team, volunteering, and more who can't even get to VA Tech. I don't know what people who get into schools like Michigan or the Ivy Leagues are doing in high school.

My daughter's friend who got into Yale was an Asian male with a very high wGPA who won Science Olympiad competitions and is an advanced string player.

Straight A doesn't mean anything, OP, you should know this. There is a world's difference between an A in a regular classs and an A in an AP class. Kids who get into the top colleges have 10+ APs, have a national level EC, etc. Your newpaper editing and team captainship worked a generation ago, but not today.

This is sounds exhausting. Kids have no time to be kids.

I am 44, and in my European country, high school was a stressful workathon culminating in one heck of a national exam week. I was so stressed out I couldn't eat on the first day of national exams. But that's nowhere near the worst. My cousins come from a country in Asia known for its teen suicide rate due to exam failure. Over there, when school ends for the day, the kids go to afternoon prep schools to cram. I know *elementary school kids* who had tutors to prepare for admission into the most prestigious afternoon prep schools!!! Separate from their regular school! HOW CRAZY IS THAT?!?

All to say: don't ever believe the US has it bad. I promise you, even for the kids who take grades seriously... it's still a layabout's paradise.

Huh? My NYC sibling had a tutor for her 2yo to prep for preschool admissions to get into the right preschool that would line up for the right elementary. That was over 20 years ago. She had two kids - one ended up graduating from Wash U and is unemployed. The other is at an Ivy.

One of my kids had a tutor by elementary. All had tutors in high school and SAT prep. All took multiple APs, as early as 9th grade. The thing about US education isn’t that it’s laid back - it’s that it’s very individual. It’s a huge country and getting into the top 10-15 schools is very hard - but no one will force you to do those things. There are a lot of less competitive options and that’s where most of the laid back kids will end up.

And yet mine and many others are in ivies, unhooked , and got into the "top" preK and elementary, and later magnet high school, based on testing with no tutor and no prep. Rose to the top. There are naturally intelligent , self-disciplined motivated and focused kids out there. The ivies are chock full of them. Why would any parent have their kid in a school they only could survive with tutoring?

Ha, I just saw Sara H.'s blog, which I had reached since others had mentioned her, and they have a tutor already lined up for her kid's 9th grade math class... . My kids' private is also chock full of kids with tutors. It is really sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Then go to a less selective school. You can study CS in lots of places. In VA, you could go to UMW (91% admit rate) and a high-stats student would get merit making the cost <$20k/year.

You can study CS in lots of places, but the outcome is not the same. As you would expect, the average salary at age 25 and age 45 of a CS grads from UMW is far less than that of a CS grad from VT or UVA or an OOS selective institution.

Sensible major at less selective school >>> dumb major at more selective school
Sensible major at more selective school >>> sensible major at less selective school

CS is vocational

Meaning you will have a hard time getting into a selective top-tier college unless you can prove you have something else/special/pointy/quirky filled w/intellectual vitality to the table.

No AO wants a vocational robot to take the spot.

[Anonymous]

How is it sad to admit your child needs extra help and get them a good tutor?

Am I missing something?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does national level ECs (extra curriculars)” mean?

Regeneron science winner
National chess champion
Top ranked national figure skater
National Debate finalist

There are many other examples…you compete against people from all over the country

Nobody can accomplish that realistically even with hard work

That's right. There are some who can, and THEY are admitted to Ivy league schools. If it feels impossible for your kid, it's because they don't belong there. complaining about this is like the parent of a 5'2" kid complaining that he can't make it on a competitive basketball team. They either have it or they don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Getting into the second tier schools like Mich really isn’t that hard. You just need the stats and scores. And you need to be strategic, know which regions and which schools the college likes the pull kids from. There are schools that have 3-4 kids accepted into Mich every year. This may not be where your HS sends kids. So figure out if they send kids to NYU or another school.

It is hard if you don’t attend the high schools where they take 3-4 kids per year. Michigan only takes 4,000 OOS students.

Your post contradicts itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting into the second tier schools like Mich really isn’t that hard. You just need the stats and scores. And you need to be strategic, know which regions and which schools the college likes the pull kids from. There are schools that have 3-4 kids accepted into Mich every year. This may not be where your HS sends kids. So figure out if they send kids to NYU or another school.

I disagree. Michigan routinely denies valedictorians

Sure, but many others are getting in. If you're a valedictorian at a half decent school, you can get into UMich. DP.

You have to afford the neighborhood with the decent high school. No, it’s not easy to get into Michigan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Go to a top private school. You can get into Yale or another top10 school without the nationally ranked extracurriculars. Just do extremely well in school (top 5-10%) and have ordinary extracurriculars (head of a few clubs, etc). It's extremely hard to be at or near the top of a class of very bright kids but it's a pretty reliable formula.

lol!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How is it sad to admit your child needs extra help and get them a good tutor?

Am I missing something?

I am not the PP. Reading the thread and the mentions of "sad" the word seems to relate to parents getting tutors early on just to have their kid barely cling to the top math group, or get into a top magnet high school, all the while pushing and pushing their kid to gun for ivies or even "lower" T20s when these colleges are filled with students who sailed through the hardest high school programs with no tutors. That is how I interpret it, for one: it is indeed sad to tiger-parent your child to try to be something they are not, rather than be in the math level they naturally should be in, even if that is just average in their ridiculous private school, and then trust the process that they will land in a college that suits them, where they have a chance to keep up with the other students or even stand out a little. This race to the top schools that everyone (on DCum) craves yet only a small portion of high school students academically can handle is troubling and wrong. Accept the kid you have at the level they naturally are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go to a top private school. You can get into Yale or another top10 school without the nationally ranked extracurriculars. Just do extremely well in school (top 5-10%) and have ordinary extracurriculars (head of a few clubs, etc). It's extremely hard to be at or near the top of a class of very bright kids but it's a pretty reliable formula.

lol!

DP. You laugh, but many of DC's peers at a top university saw the school as a "Backup," because their school is very well connected. You can really do the bare minimum at some private schools and get into some awesome colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting into the second tier schools like Mich really isn’t that hard. You just need the stats and scores. And you need to be strategic, know which regions and which schools the college likes the pull kids from. There are schools that have 3-4 kids accepted into Mich every year. This may not be where your HS sends kids. So figure out if they send kids to NYU or another school.

I disagree. Michigan routinely denies valedictorians

Sure, but many others are getting in. If you're a valedictorian at a half decent school, you can get into UMich. DP.

You have to afford the neighborhood with the decent high school. No, it’s not easy to get into Michigan.

For the public magnets/gov schools such as TJ and others, Michigan is a "backup"/likely or at worst a match school for the entire top 10%, many of whom land at ivy/plus. From the perspective of those students, Michigan is "easy". UVA in state is also a backup/likely for top students at these schools. For some of these magnets you can live in below-average HHI/housing and test in to these high schools from many different areas/districts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like so many straight A students who were chief school newspaper editor, captain of a varsity sports team, volunteering, and more who can't even get to VA Tech. I don't know what people who get into schools like Michigan or the Ivy Leagues are doing in high school.

My daughter's friend who got into Yale was an Asian male with a very high wGPA who won Science Olympiad competitions and is an advanced string player.

Straight A doesn't mean anything, OP, you should know this. There is a world's difference between an A in a regular classs and an A in an AP class. Kids who get into the top colleges have 10+ APs, have a national level EC, etc. Your newpaper editing and team captainship worked a generation ago, but not today.

This is sounds exhausting. Kids have no time to be kids.

I am 44, and in my European country, high school was a stressful workathon culminating in one heck of a national exam week. I was so stressed out I couldn't eat on the first day of national exams. But that's nowhere near the worst. My cousins come from a country in Asia known for its teen suicide rate due to exam failure. Over there, when school ends for the day, the kids go to afternoon prep schools to cram. I know *elementary school kids* who had tutors to prepare for admission into the most prestigious afternoon prep schools!!! Separate from their regular school! HOW CRAZY IS THAT?!?

All to say: don't ever believe the US has it bad. I promise you, even for the kids who take grades seriously... it's still a layabout's paradise.

Huh? My NYC sibling had a tutor for her 2yo to prep for preschool admissions to get into the right preschool that would line up for the right elementary. That was over 20 years ago. She had two kids - one ended up graduating from Wash U and is unemployed. The other is at an Ivy.

One of my kids had a tutor by elementary. All had tutors in high school and SAT prep. All took multiple APs, as early as 9th grade. The thing about US education isn’t that it’s laid back - it’s that it’s very individual. It’s a huge country and getting into the top 10-15 schools is very hard - but no one will force you to do those things. There are a lot of less competitive options and that’s where most of the laid back kids will end up.

And yet mine and many others are in ivies, unhooked , and got into the "top" preK and elementary, and later magnet high school, based on testing with no tutor and no prep. Rose to the top. There are naturally intelligent , self-disciplined motivated and focused kids out there. The ivies are chock full of them. Why would any parent have their kid in a school they only could survive with tutoring?

+100

My unhooked kid is headed to an Ivy. You could tell from when he was little. We never tutored or test prepped and he was self-motivated—-but frankly never had to study or struggle like other kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is it sad to admit your child needs extra help and get them a good tutor?

Am I missing something?

I am not the PP. Reading the thread and the mentions of "sad" the word seems to relate to parents getting tutors early on just to have their kid barely cling to the top math group, or get into a top magnet high school, all the while pushing and pushing their kid to gun for ivies or even "lower" T20s when these colleges are filled with students who sailed through the hardest high school programs with no tutors. That is how I interpret it, for one: it is indeed sad to tiger-parent your child to try to be something they are not, rather than be in the math level they naturally should be in, even if that is just average in their ridiculous private school, and then trust the process that they will land in a college that suits them, where they have a chance to keep up with the other students or even stand out a little. This race to the top schools that everyone (on DCum) craves yet only a small portion of high school students academically can handle is troubling and wrong. Accept the kid you have at the level they naturally are.

it's not that simple. my kid can handle work easily but will only work as much as is needed to be at the very top among perceived peers. for this reason we needed to push for "good schools", and later, magnet and top colleges.

[Anonymous]

OP it can be done. Husband + I both grew up poor and graduated from Dummy State U undergrad + grad. Kid went to Harvard. First Ivy Leaguer in entire family. I bought several college books on Amazon when they were 12 and figured out a game plan for success. It worked.