Benefits of taking Algebra 1 in 6th grade

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Great! People who don't want math acceleration can opt out, and those who want it can have it available. Everyone should choose what they think works best for their child.

Anyone who truly believes that math acceleration confers no benefit shouldn't be bothered by other kids who do accelerate.

Sounds about right.

But if you go on a public forum claiming it’s beneficial for admissions at top colleges, don’t be surprised if you get some pushback.

Where would the advanced students go if not to top colleges? Of course not all, but a good number get offers from best colleges.

If 700 kids take Algebra in 6 in one district alone, it’s not possible that half of it will make it to top colleges. Probably not even 10%.

Colleges want to see a rigorous coursework and evidence the student can handle the classes for intended major. A kid entering high school at geometry, getting A, and completing AP calculus BC with 5, will check the most rigorous mark, and there’s no reason to believe they can’t handle more advanced college classes.

Taking more math classes won’t change that, it just means the kid was set on that path from elementary school because the parents put in the effort. Look up details in Harvard vs. Fair Admissions, at no point the DE math came out as a factor.

It’s going to be down to other things first and DE math has a negligible impact.

Colleges won't know that when they need to admit. They'll at most see the grades for the first quarter of Calc BC, and they won't have an AP score in the application packet for a kid taking BC in 12th. Kids who take BC in 11th will have both a full course grade and the AP score available in their application packet.

For the second bolded point, that depends entirely on the school district. In FCPS and LCPS, 7th grade Algebra has very little to do with parental effort and a lot more to do with natural math aptitude. The bar is not high, and many kids clear the bar with nothing more than the math taught in their schools.

If a student enters high school at precalculus, it is expected they’ll keep taking math over the years, and that implies math offered at high school or outside, and will include Calculus, Statistics, and others like Multivariable.

If a student enters high school at geometry, taking a regular progression of one math class per year they’ll end up at Calculus in senior year. While AP exam is not available, grades in first semester are.

Both are taking full advantage of what’s available to them in high school, colleges won’t be looking at what was done in middle school. It’s not expected students use their summers to advance in math.

One caveat is that students advanced in math often do other activities that make them better applicants, but that a classic example of correlation without causation.

People are so invested in believing their kid has a leg up, there’s nothing to convince them otherwise.

If your high school offers through multivariable calculus and your student enters high school in geometry and takes up through calc AB…no, they aren’t taking advantage of what is available to them. They are taking what’s appropriate for them, but that’s different from what’s available

Ok, somehow you know better than colleges themselves, but haven’t provided anything to substantiate your deeply held belief:

Here is what MIT says about the coursework in high school:

“To be clear, we do not expect students do anything above and beyond what is required to demonstrate their readiness for the MIT education. However, we also know that many of our applicants have interests, aptitudes, and curiosities that may carry themselves beyond what is offered at their local high school, and the resources here may help you explore those further if you wish.⁠”

Readiness is detailed in this link, Calculus being highest level of math that’s expected:
https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

You’re so enamored of the idea that your kid has a leg up from taking algebra in 6th grade that there’s nothing that could change your mind about it.

If your interest in math is leading to taking dual enrollment classes, that’s great. If your thing is being part of math club and tutor other students, doing research, or whatever floats your boat, that’s equally good. You won’t be dinged because you “only” took Calculus.

Please realize “readiness” for applicants is the minimum to apply. If you like at who is actually admitted and attends, the vast majority have had math beyond calc BC

If they took Statistics they'd understand the difference between correlation and causation.

MIT smirks at the "rigor" of a high school / dual Enrollment Multivariable Calc / Linear Algebra class. That's not what impresses them.

+1

What are you talking about? It isn’t what impresses them per se, but the majority of applicants getting accepted are going to have post BC calc math (among other impressive things).

That’s likely true for math majors, not sure you can generalize to all admits.

If you read what MIT says about post BC Calculus it’s clear those classes don’t carry as much weight as APs in Physics and Chemistry.

The rigor in DE varies widely, just from my kid taking Multivariable at the local community college, it’s easy to get an A without mastery and they don’t even cover the entire material. Colleges know this very well, yes, it adds something, but it won’t be the determining factor. And it’s not required, someone getting a 5 in Calculus BC would have absolutely no problem acing the community college Multivariable, so it’s not really a significant differentiator.

Since the acceleration occurs mostly in middle school, it says very little about talent and ability and more about socioeconomic status, it’s mostly parents buying enrichment and pushing for higher math placement. Again colleges know this, it’s not a secret to anyone, and it’s not the back door to top colleges as some claim.

The colleges know your socioeconomic status. Obviously, they’ll treat FGLI kids differently from UMC ones. If you’re a UMC kid, and most of the top kids from your school are in multivariable, you’ll look like a kid who is less motivated or less intelligent than your peer group.

You won’t look less motivated and less intelligent because your parents weren’t pushy enough to place you in Algebra in 6th grade. So much cope and wishful thinking from tiger parents.

You can still do Algebra in 7th and have no dual enrollment math if the school enforces Calculus AB then BC sequence or the student chooses to take AP Statistics in senior year. It’s not going to be looked down at.

Easy fix: take the AP AB exam as external student, then they have to admit you to BC directly.

No they don't. And good luck finding a spot

They do if the class is AP/DE and the participating college through which the class is offered accepts AP credit for Calc AB.

AP, which is what you were talking about, is not offered through a college.

Suppose the school says they won't offer high school credit for an AB score. What would your next steps be?

We don't need or want high school credit for AB. There's just not enough room in the schedule for AB given all the other AP courses DC will have to take in their sophomore year. Plus there needs to be room for fun classes like band/orchestra, foreign languages, and perhaps another elective like Robotics.

We just insist on being placed into the DE/AP Calculus BC course since we meet the prerequisites as posed by the college undersigning the DE portion.
Again, the courses are AP/DE (combined), not just AP. Students receive both DE credit and can take the AP exam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great! People who don't want math acceleration can opt out, and those who want it can have it available. Everyone should choose what they think works best for their child.

Anyone who truly believes that math acceleration confers no benefit shouldn't be bothered by other kids who do accelerate.

Sounds about right.

But if you go on a public forum claiming it’s beneficial for admissions at top colleges, don’t be surprised if you get some pushback.

Where would the advanced students go if not to top colleges? Of course not all, but a good number get offers from best colleges.

If 700 kids take Algebra in 6 in one district alone, it’s not possible that half of it will make it to top colleges. Probably not even 10%.

Colleges want to see a rigorous coursework and evidence the student can handle the classes for intended major. A kid entering high school at geometry, getting A, and completing AP calculus BC with 5, will check the most rigorous mark, and there’s no reason to believe they can’t handle more advanced college classes.

Taking more math classes won’t change that, it just means the kid was set on that path from elementary school because the parents put in the effort. Look up details in Harvard vs. Fair Admissions, at no point the DE math came out as a factor.

It’s going to be down to other things first and DE math has a negligible impact.

Colleges won't know that when they need to admit. They'll at most see the grades for the first quarter of Calc BC, and they won't have an AP score in the application packet for a kid taking BC in 12th. Kids who take BC in 11th will have both a full course grade and the AP score available in their application packet.

For the second bolded point, that depends entirely on the school district. In FCPS and LCPS, 7th grade Algebra has very little to do with parental effort and a lot more to do with natural math aptitude. The bar is not high, and many kids clear the bar with nothing more than the math taught in their schools.

If a student enters high school at precalculus, it is expected they’ll keep taking math over the years, and that implies math offered at high school or outside, and will include Calculus, Statistics, and others like Multivariable.

If a student enters high school at geometry, taking a regular progression of one math class per year they’ll end up at Calculus in senior year. While AP exam is not available, grades in first semester are.

Both are taking full advantage of what’s available to them in high school, colleges won’t be looking at what was done in middle school. It’s not expected students use their summers to advance in math.

One caveat is that students advanced in math often do other activities that make them better applicants, but that a classic example of correlation without causation.

People are so invested in believing their kid has a leg up, there’s nothing to convince them otherwise.

If your high school offers through multivariable calculus and your student enters high school in geometry and takes up through calc AB…no, they aren’t taking advantage of what is available to them. They are taking what’s appropriate for them, but that’s different from what’s available

Ok, somehow you know better than colleges themselves, but haven’t provided anything to substantiate your deeply held belief:

Here is what MIT says about the coursework in high school:

“To be clear, we do not expect students do anything above and beyond what is required to demonstrate their readiness for the MIT education. However, we also know that many of our applicants have interests, aptitudes, and curiosities that may carry themselves beyond what is offered at their local high school, and the resources here may help you explore those further if you wish.⁠”

Readiness is detailed in this link, Calculus being highest level of math that’s expected:
https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

You’re so enamored of the idea that your kid has a leg up from taking algebra in 6th grade that there’s nothing that could change your mind about it.

If your interest in math is leading to taking dual enrollment classes, that’s great. If your thing is being part of math club and tutor other students, doing research, or whatever floats your boat, that’s equally good. You won’t be dinged because you “only” took Calculus.

Please realize “readiness” for applicants is the minimum to apply. If you like at who is actually admitted and attends, the vast majority have had math beyond calc BC

If they took Statistics they'd understand the difference between correlation and causation.

MIT smirks at the "rigor" of a high school / dual Enrollment Multivariable Calc / Linear Algebra class. That's not what impresses them.

+1

What are you talking about? It isn’t what impresses them per se, but the majority of applicants getting accepted are going to have post BC calc math (among other impressive things).

That’s likely true for math majors, not sure you can generalize to all admits.

If you read what MIT says about post BC Calculus it’s clear those classes don’t carry as much weight as APs in Physics and Chemistry.

The rigor in DE varies widely, just from my kid taking Multivariable at the local community college, it’s easy to get an A without mastery and they don’t even cover the entire material. Colleges know this very well, yes, it adds something, but it won’t be the determining factor. And it’s not required, someone getting a 5 in Calculus BC would have absolutely no problem acing the community college Multivariable, so it’s not really a significant differentiator.

Since the acceleration occurs mostly in middle school, it says very little about talent and ability and more about socioeconomic status, it’s mostly parents buying enrichment and pushing for higher math placement. Again colleges know this, it’s not a secret to anyone, and it’s not the back door to top colleges as some claim.

The colleges know your socioeconomic status. Obviously, they’ll treat FGLI kids differently from UMC ones. If you’re a UMC kid, and most of the top kids from your school are in multivariable, you’ll look like a kid who is less motivated or less intelligent than your peer group.

You won’t look less motivated and less intelligent because your parents weren’t pushy enough to place you in Algebra in 6th grade. So much cope and wishful thinking from tiger parents.

You can still do Algebra in 7th and have no dual enrollment math if the school enforces Calculus AB then BC sequence or the student chooses to take AP Statistics in senior year. It’s not going to be looked down at.

The goalposts keep moving here. Are you arguing that 6th grade vs. 7th grade algebra doesn't matter, or are you arguing that 7th vs. 8th doesn't matter? Whether 6th grade algebra matters is a bit of a trick question. The HYPSM math departments are looking for the kids who are medalling in USAMO, attending MOP, running math clubs, and in all ways showing an enthusiasm for math. Neither the kid with 6th grade Algebra nor the one with 8th grade Algebra have much of a chance without having a strong all around package.

Aside from that, the kids who take Calc BC in 11th have the opportunity to have full grades and AP scores recorded for both Calc BC and AP Physic C (M and E&M) at the time of application. Colleges at least have confirmation that the kids are fully capable of handling rigorous STEM classes. If the kid doesn't take Calc BC until 12th, they also can't take AP Physic C until 12th. The colleges won't know if the kid is actually capable or whether any grades are inflated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great! People who don't want math acceleration can opt out, and those who want it can have it available. Everyone should choose what they think works best for their child.

Anyone who truly believes that math acceleration confers no benefit shouldn't be bothered by other kids who do accelerate.

Sounds about right.

But if you go on a public forum claiming it’s beneficial for admissions at top colleges, don’t be surprised if you get some pushback.

Where would the advanced students go if not to top colleges? Of course not all, but a good number get offers from best colleges.

If 700 kids take Algebra in 6 in one district alone, it’s not possible that half of it will make it to top colleges. Probably not even 10%.

Colleges want to see a rigorous coursework and evidence the student can handle the classes for intended major. A kid entering high school at geometry, getting A, and completing AP calculus BC with 5, will check the most rigorous mark, and there’s no reason to believe they can’t handle more advanced college classes.

Taking more math classes won’t change that, it just means the kid was set on that path from elementary school because the parents put in the effort. Look up details in Harvard vs. Fair Admissions, at no point the DE math came out as a factor.

It’s going to be down to other things first and DE math has a negligible impact.

Colleges won't know that when they need to admit. They'll at most see the grades for the first quarter of Calc BC, and they won't have an AP score in the application packet for a kid taking BC in 12th. Kids who take BC in 11th will have both a full course grade and the AP score available in their application packet.

For the second bolded point, that depends entirely on the school district. In FCPS and LCPS, 7th grade Algebra has very little to do with parental effort and a lot more to do with natural math aptitude. The bar is not high, and many kids clear the bar with nothing more than the math taught in their schools.

If a student enters high school at precalculus, it is expected they’ll keep taking math over the years, and that implies math offered at high school or outside, and will include Calculus, Statistics, and others like Multivariable.

If a student enters high school at geometry, taking a regular progression of one math class per year they’ll end up at Calculus in senior year. While AP exam is not available, grades in first semester are.

Both are taking full advantage of what’s available to them in high school, colleges won’t be looking at what was done in middle school. It’s not expected students use their summers to advance in math.

One caveat is that students advanced in math often do other activities that make them better applicants, but that a classic example of correlation without causation.

People are so invested in believing their kid has a leg up, there’s nothing to convince them otherwise.

If your high school offers through multivariable calculus and your student enters high school in geometry and takes up through calc AB…no, they aren’t taking advantage of what is available to them. They are taking what’s appropriate for them, but that’s different from what’s available

Ok, somehow you know better than colleges themselves, but haven’t provided anything to substantiate your deeply held belief:

Here is what MIT says about the coursework in high school:

“To be clear, we do not expect students do anything above and beyond what is required to demonstrate their readiness for the MIT education. However, we also know that many of our applicants have interests, aptitudes, and curiosities that may carry themselves beyond what is offered at their local high school, and the resources here may help you explore those further if you wish.⁠”

Readiness is detailed in this link, Calculus being highest level of math that’s expected:
https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

You’re so enamored of the idea that your kid has a leg up from taking algebra in 6th grade that there’s nothing that could change your mind about it.

If your interest in math is leading to taking dual enrollment classes, that’s great. If your thing is being part of math club and tutor other students, doing research, or whatever floats your boat, that’s equally good. You won’t be dinged because you “only” took Calculus.

Please realize “readiness” for applicants is the minimum to apply. If you like at who is actually admitted and attends, the vast majority have had math beyond calc BC

If they took Statistics they'd understand the difference between correlation and causation.

MIT smirks at the "rigor" of a high school / dual Enrollment Multivariable Calc / Linear Algebra class. That's not what impresses them.

+1

What are you talking about? It isn’t what impresses them per se, but the majority of applicants getting accepted are going to have post BC calc math (among other impressive things).

That’s likely true for math majors, not sure you can generalize to all admits.

If you read what MIT says about post BC Calculus it’s clear those classes don’t carry as much weight as APs in Physics and Chemistry.

The rigor in DE varies widely, just from my kid taking Multivariable at the local community college, it’s easy to get an A without mastery and they don’t even cover the entire material. Colleges know this very well, yes, it adds something, but it won’t be the determining factor. And it’s not required, someone getting a 5 in Calculus BC would have absolutely no problem acing the community college Multivariable, so it’s not really a significant differentiator.

Since the acceleration occurs mostly in middle school, it says very little about talent and ability and more about socioeconomic status, it’s mostly parents buying enrichment and pushing for higher math placement. Again colleges know this, it’s not a secret to anyone, and it’s not the back door to top colleges as some claim.

The colleges know your socioeconomic status. Obviously, they’ll treat FGLI kids differently from UMC ones. If you’re a UMC kid, and most of the top kids from your school are in multivariable, you’ll look like a kid who is less motivated or less intelligent than your peer group.

You won’t look less motivated and less intelligent because your parents weren’t pushy enough to place you in Algebra in 6th grade. So much cope and wishful thinking from tiger parents.

You can still do Algebra in 7th and have no dual enrollment math if the school enforces Calculus AB then BC sequence or the student chooses to take AP Statistics in senior year. It’s not going to be looked down at.

Easy fix: take the AP AB exam as external student, then they have to admit you to BC directly.

No they don't. And good luck finding a spot

They do if the class is AP/DE and the participating college through which the class is offered accepts AP credit for Calc AB.

AP, which is what you were talking about, is not offered through a college.

Suppose the school says they won't offer high school credit for an AB score. What would your next steps be?

We don't need or want high school credit for AB. There's just not enough room in the schedule for AB given all the other AP courses DC will have to take in their sophomore year. Plus there needs to be room for fun classes like band/orchestra, foreign languages, and perhaps another elective like Robotics.

We just insist on being placed into the DE/AP Calculus BC course since we meet the prerequisites as posed by the college undersigning the DE portion.
Again, the courses are AP/DE (combined), not just AP. Students receive both DE credit and can take the AP exam.

You sound like a parent of a middle school student that doesn’t fully understand how AP, math placement, high school and dual enrollment credit works. You really seem very ignorant of the topic.

As it was mentioned before, the are no AP/DE combined courses. AP is a designation given by a private organization College Board if a course passes an audit. DE are classes taken for both high school and college while the student is enrolled at both institutions. Sometimes magnet schools call their advanced courses DE, but they are just electives and will not get any credit anywhere.

The reality is that if the school requests AP before BC taken at the school, there’s not much you can do, they are not obligated to accept outside courses and examinations.

That’s assuming you can find a school that will agree to accept your kid for the exam. There are stories of homeschooling parents calling all high school within a three hour driving radius and still not being able to find a spot because high schools are not obligated to accommodate your child.

You seem to be very confident of your kids abilities to pass the AP Calculus AB in 9th grade, even before finishing precalculus. That’s not a given, but hope dies last.

For dual enrollment at local community colleges, there may be age restrictions and your child might not be able to enroll until 11th grade and there are prerequisite to meet, again you’ll have to complete precalculus and trigonometry before enrolling in Calculus 1.

You know very little, but I love your confidence in telling others that what colleges say on their admissions websites doesn’t matter, offering advice on what MIT wants etc. You are in need of a generous portion of humility, because your only qualification is your kid takes algebra in 6th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great! People who don't want math acceleration can opt out, and those who want it can have it available. Everyone should choose what they think works best for their child.

Anyone who truly believes that math acceleration confers no benefit shouldn't be bothered by other kids who do accelerate.

Sounds about right.

But if you go on a public forum claiming it’s beneficial for admissions at top colleges, don’t be surprised if you get some pushback.

Where would the advanced students go if not to top colleges? Of course not all, but a good number get offers from best colleges.

If 700 kids take Algebra in 6 in one district alone, it’s not possible that half of it will make it to top colleges. Probably not even 10%.

Colleges want to see a rigorous coursework and evidence the student can handle the classes for intended major. A kid entering high school at geometry, getting A, and completing AP calculus BC with 5, will check the most rigorous mark, and there’s no reason to believe they can’t handle more advanced college classes.

Taking more math classes won’t change that, it just means the kid was set on that path from elementary school because the parents put in the effort. Look up details in Harvard vs. Fair Admissions, at no point the DE math came out as a factor.

It’s going to be down to other things first and DE math has a negligible impact.

Colleges won't know that when they need to admit. They'll at most see the grades for the first quarter of Calc BC, and they won't have an AP score in the application packet for a kid taking BC in 12th. Kids who take BC in 11th will have both a full course grade and the AP score available in their application packet.

For the second bolded point, that depends entirely on the school district. In FCPS and LCPS, 7th grade Algebra has very little to do with parental effort and a lot more to do with natural math aptitude. The bar is not high, and many kids clear the bar with nothing more than the math taught in their schools.

If a student enters high school at precalculus, it is expected they’ll keep taking math over the years, and that implies math offered at high school or outside, and will include Calculus, Statistics, and others like Multivariable.

If a student enters high school at geometry, taking a regular progression of one math class per year they’ll end up at Calculus in senior year. While AP exam is not available, grades in first semester are.

Both are taking full advantage of what’s available to them in high school, colleges won’t be looking at what was done in middle school. It’s not expected students use their summers to advance in math.

One caveat is that students advanced in math often do other activities that make them better applicants, but that a classic example of correlation without causation.

People are so invested in believing their kid has a leg up, there’s nothing to convince them otherwise.

If your high school offers through multivariable calculus and your student enters high school in geometry and takes up through calc AB…no, they aren’t taking advantage of what is available to them. They are taking what’s appropriate for them, but that’s different from what’s available

Ok, somehow you know better than colleges themselves, but haven’t provided anything to substantiate your deeply held belief:

Here is what MIT says about the coursework in high school:

“To be clear, we do not expect students do anything above and beyond what is required to demonstrate their readiness for the MIT education. However, we also know that many of our applicants have interests, aptitudes, and curiosities that may carry themselves beyond what is offered at their local high school, and the resources here may help you explore those further if you wish.⁠”

Readiness is detailed in this link, Calculus being highest level of math that’s expected:
https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

You’re so enamored of the idea that your kid has a leg up from taking algebra in 6th grade that there’s nothing that could change your mind about it.

If your interest in math is leading to taking dual enrollment classes, that’s great. If your thing is being part of math club and tutor other students, doing research, or whatever floats your boat, that’s equally good. You won’t be dinged because you “only” took Calculus.

Please realize “readiness” for applicants is the minimum to apply. If you like at who is actually admitted and attends, the vast majority have had math beyond calc BC

If they took Statistics they'd understand the difference between correlation and causation.

MIT smirks at the "rigor" of a high school / dual Enrollment Multivariable Calc / Linear Algebra class. That's not what impresses them.

+1

What are you talking about? It isn’t what impresses them per se, but the majority of applicants getting accepted are going to have post BC calc math (among other impressive things).

That’s likely true for math majors, not sure you can generalize to all admits.

If you read what MIT says about post BC Calculus it’s clear those classes don’t carry as much weight as APs in Physics and Chemistry.

The rigor in DE varies widely, just from my kid taking Multivariable at the local community college, it’s easy to get an A without mastery and they don’t even cover the entire material. Colleges know this very well, yes, it adds something, but it won’t be the determining factor. And it’s not required, someone getting a 5 in Calculus BC would have absolutely no problem acing the community college Multivariable, so it’s not really a significant differentiator.

Since the acceleration occurs mostly in middle school, it says very little about talent and ability and more about socioeconomic status, it’s mostly parents buying enrichment and pushing for higher math placement. Again colleges know this, it’s not a secret to anyone, and it’s not the back door to top colleges as some claim.

The colleges know your socioeconomic status. Obviously, they’ll treat FGLI kids differently from UMC ones. If you’re a UMC kid, and most of the top kids from your school are in multivariable, you’ll look like a kid who is less motivated or less intelligent than your peer group.

You won’t look less motivated and less intelligent because your parents weren’t pushy enough to place you in Algebra in 6th grade. So much cope and wishful thinking from tiger parents.

You can still do Algebra in 7th and have no dual enrollment math if the school enforces Calculus AB then BC sequence or the student chooses to take AP Statistics in senior year. It’s not going to be looked down at.

Easy fix: take the AP AB exam as external student, then they have to admit you to BC directly.

No they don't. And good luck finding a spot

They do if the class is AP/DE and the participating college through which the class is offered accepts AP credit for Calc AB.

AP, which is what you were talking about, is not offered through a college.

Suppose the school says they won't offer high school credit for an AB score. What would your next steps be?

We don't need or want high school credit for AB. There's just not enough room in the schedule for AB given all the other AP courses DC will have to take in their sophomore year. Plus there needs to be room for fun classes like band/orchestra, foreign languages, and perhaps another elective like Robotics.

We just insist on being placed into the DE/AP Calculus BC course since we meet the prerequisites as posed by the college undersigning the DE portion.
Again, the courses are AP/DE (combined), not just AP. Students receive both DE credit and can take the AP exam.

You sound like a parent of a middle school student that doesn’t fully understand how AP, math placement, high school and dual enrollment credit works. You really seem very ignorant of the topic.

As it was mentioned before, the are no AP/DE combined courses. AP is a designation given by a private organization College Board if a course passes an audit. DE are classes taken for both high school and college while the student is enrolled at both institutions. Sometimes magnet schools call their advanced courses DE, but they are just electives and will not get any credit anywhere.

The reality is that if the school requests AP before BC taken at the school, there’s not much you can do, they are not obligated to accept outside courses and examinations.

That’s assuming you can find a school that will agree to accept your kid for the exam. There are stories of homeschooling parents calling all high school within a three hour driving radius and still not being able to find a spot because high schools are not obligated to accommodate your child.

You seem to be very confident of your kids abilities to pass the AP Calculus AB in 9th grade, even before finishing precalculus. That’s not a given, but hope dies last.

For dual enrollment at local community colleges, there may be age restrictions and your child might not be able to enroll until 11th grade and there are prerequisite to meet, again you’ll have to complete precalculus and trigonometry before enrolling in Calculus 1.

You know very little, but I love your confidence in telling others that what colleges say on their admissions websites doesn’t matter, offering advice on what MIT wants etc. You are in need of a generous portion of humility, because your only qualification is your kid takes algebra in 6th grade.

DP. You also know very little, since you seem to be incapable of grasping the idea that you're debating at least 3 other people.

I'm not the quoted PP here. I'm a different PP who thinks you are completely wrong that MIT is fine with only Calc BC if the kid is attending a school where hundreds of kids will have stellar stats and also a bunch of post-BC calc classes. Literally every college counseling service says that you are competing with the kids from your school and with the context of your school's offerings. But I guess you know better than every college counselor.

Also, FWIW, not everyone debating you has a 6th grader and is overly impressed that their kid is in algebra. Some of us have high schoolers, talk to college counselors, and have a pretty good clue. HYPSM want kids who are special. They don't want garden variety bright (FCPS 6th grade algebra) or garden variety UMC average (FCPS 8th grade algebra) kids. The 6th grade algebra kid has a somewhat better chance since they can at least package themselves more easily as someone willing to tackle challenges or as someone passionate about math. They're also more likely to receive one of those "best student in their grade level" or "best student I've ever taught" letters of recommendation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great! People who don't want math acceleration can opt out, and those who want it can have it available. Everyone should choose what they think works best for their child.

Anyone who truly believes that math acceleration confers no benefit shouldn't be bothered by other kids who do accelerate.

Sounds about right.

But if you go on a public forum claiming it’s beneficial for admissions at top colleges, don’t be surprised if you get some pushback.

Where would the advanced students go if not to top colleges? Of course not all, but a good number get offers from best colleges.

If 700 kids take Algebra in 6 in one district alone, it’s not possible that half of it will make it to top colleges. Probably not even 10%.

Colleges want to see a rigorous coursework and evidence the student can handle the classes for intended major. A kid entering high school at geometry, getting A, and completing AP calculus BC with 5, will check the most rigorous mark, and there’s no reason to believe they can’t handle more advanced college classes.

Taking more math classes won’t change that, it just means the kid was set on that path from elementary school because the parents put in the effort. Look up details in Harvard vs. Fair Admissions, at no point the DE math came out as a factor.

It’s going to be down to other things first and DE math has a negligible impact.

Colleges won't know that when they need to admit. They'll at most see the grades for the first quarter of Calc BC, and they won't have an AP score in the application packet for a kid taking BC in 12th. Kids who take BC in 11th will have both a full course grade and the AP score available in their application packet.

For the second bolded point, that depends entirely on the school district. In FCPS and LCPS, 7th grade Algebra has very little to do with parental effort and a lot more to do with natural math aptitude. The bar is not high, and many kids clear the bar with nothing more than the math taught in their schools.

If a student enters high school at precalculus, it is expected they’ll keep taking math over the years, and that implies math offered at high school or outside, and will include Calculus, Statistics, and others like Multivariable.

If a student enters high school at geometry, taking a regular progression of one math class per year they’ll end up at Calculus in senior year. While AP exam is not available, grades in first semester are.

Both are taking full advantage of what’s available to them in high school, colleges won’t be looking at what was done in middle school. It’s not expected students use their summers to advance in math.

One caveat is that students advanced in math often do other activities that make them better applicants, but that a classic example of correlation without causation.

People are so invested in believing their kid has a leg up, there’s nothing to convince them otherwise.

If your high school offers through multivariable calculus and your student enters high school in geometry and takes up through calc AB…no, they aren’t taking advantage of what is available to them. They are taking what’s appropriate for them, but that’s different from what’s available

Ok, somehow you know better than colleges themselves, but haven’t provided anything to substantiate your deeply held belief:

Here is what MIT says about the coursework in high school:

“To be clear, we do not expect students do anything above and beyond what is required to demonstrate their readiness for the MIT education. However, we also know that many of our applicants have interests, aptitudes, and curiosities that may carry themselves beyond what is offered at their local high school, and the resources here may help you explore those further if you wish.⁠”

Readiness is detailed in this link, Calculus being highest level of math that’s expected:
https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

You’re so enamored of the idea that your kid has a leg up from taking algebra in 6th grade that there’s nothing that could change your mind about it.

If your interest in math is leading to taking dual enrollment classes, that’s great. If your thing is being part of math club and tutor other students, doing research, or whatever floats your boat, that’s equally good. You won’t be dinged because you “only” took Calculus.

Please realize “readiness” for applicants is the minimum to apply. If you like at who is actually admitted and attends, the vast majority have had math beyond calc BC

If they took Statistics they'd understand the difference between correlation and causation.

MIT smirks at the "rigor" of a high school / dual Enrollment Multivariable Calc / Linear Algebra class. That's not what impresses them.

+1

What are you talking about? It isn’t what impresses them per se, but the majority of applicants getting accepted are going to have post BC calc math (among other impressive things).

That’s likely true for math majors, not sure you can generalize to all admits.

If you read what MIT says about post BC Calculus it’s clear those classes don’t carry as much weight as APs in Physics and Chemistry.

The rigor in DE varies widely, just from my kid taking Multivariable at the local community college, it’s easy to get an A without mastery and they don’t even cover the entire material. Colleges know this very well, yes, it adds something, but it won’t be the determining factor. And it’s not required, someone getting a 5 in Calculus BC would have absolutely no problem acing the community college Multivariable, so it’s not really a significant differentiator.

Since the acceleration occurs mostly in middle school, it says very little about talent and ability and more about socioeconomic status, it’s mostly parents buying enrichment and pushing for higher math placement. Again colleges know this, it’s not a secret to anyone, and it’s not the back door to top colleges as some claim.

The colleges know your socioeconomic status. Obviously, they’ll treat FGLI kids differently from UMC ones. If you’re a UMC kid, and most of the top kids from your school are in multivariable, you’ll look like a kid who is less motivated or less intelligent than your peer group.

You won’t look less motivated and less intelligent because your parents weren’t pushy enough to place you in Algebra in 6th grade. So much cope and wishful thinking from tiger parents.

You can still do Algebra in 7th and have no dual enrollment math if the school enforces Calculus AB then BC sequence or the student chooses to take AP Statistics in senior year. It’s not going to be looked down at.

Easy fix: take the AP AB exam as external student, then they have to admit you to BC directly.

No they don't. And good luck finding a spot

They do if the class is AP/DE and the participating college through which the class is offered accepts AP credit for Calc AB.

AP, which is what you were talking about, is not offered through a college.

Suppose the school says they won't offer high school credit for an AB score. What would your next steps be?

We don't need or want high school credit for AB. There's just not enough room in the schedule for AB given all the other AP courses DC will have to take in their sophomore year. Plus there needs to be room for fun classes like band/orchestra, foreign languages, and perhaps another elective like Robotics.

We just insist on being placed into the DE/AP Calculus BC course since we meet the prerequisites as posed by the college undersigning the DE portion.
Again, the courses are AP/DE (combined), not just AP. Students receive both DE credit and can take the AP exam.

You sound like a parent of a middle school student that doesn’t fully understand how AP, math placement, high school and dual enrollment credit works. You really seem very ignorant of the topic.

As it was mentioned before, the are no AP/DE combined courses. AP is a designation given by a private organization College Board if a course passes an audit. DE are classes taken for both high school and college while the student is enrolled at both institutions. Sometimes magnet schools call their advanced courses DE, but they are just electives and will not get any credit anywhere.

The reality is that if the school requests AP before BC taken at the school, there’s not much you can do, they are not obligated to accept outside courses and examinations.

That’s assuming you can find a school that will agree to accept your kid for the exam. There are stories of homeschooling parents calling all high school within a three hour driving radius and still not being able to find a spot because high schools are not obligated to accommodate your child.

You seem to be very confident of your kids abilities to pass the AP Calculus AB in 9th grade, even before finishing precalculus. That’s not a given, but hope dies last.

For dual enrollment at local community colleges, there may be age restrictions and your child might not be able to enroll until 11th grade and there are prerequisite to meet, again you’ll have to complete precalculus and trigonometry before enrolling in Calculus 1.

You know very little, but I love your confidence in telling others that what colleges say on their admissions websites doesn’t matter, offering advice on what MIT wants etc. You are in need of a generous portion of humility, because your only qualification is your kid takes algebra in 6th grade.

DP. You also know very little, since you seem to be incapable of grasping the idea that you're debating at least 3 other people.

I'm not the quoted PP here. I'm a different PP who thinks you are completely wrong that MIT is fine with only Calc BC if the kid is attending a school where hundreds of kids will have stellar stats and also a bunch of post-BC calc classes. Literally every college counseling service says that you are competing with the kids from your school and with the context of your school's offerings. But I guess you know better than every college counselor.

Also, FWIW, not everyone debating you has a 6th grader and is overly impressed that their kid is in algebra. Some of us have high schoolers, talk to college counselors, and have a pretty good clue. HYPSM want kids who are special. They don't want garden variety bright (FCPS 6th grade algebra) or garden variety UMC average (FCPS 8th grade algebra) kids. The 6th grade algebra kid has a somewhat better chance since they can at least package themselves more easily as someone willing to tackle challenges or as someone passionate about math. They're also more likely to receive one of those "best student in their grade level" or "best student I've ever taught" letters of recommendation.

I’m not too keen of bringing credentials into argumentation, but fyi I have a PhD in Physics from MIT. I know the caliber of students that end up at MIT and I don’t disagree they are looking for students that are special in some way. I’m just don’t have the arrogance to discount the kids that only ended up at Calculus AB or BC and labelling them as garden variety, and think a couple of classes will make a significant difference.

Sorry, but the kid that took 6th grade algebra won’t be successful in “packaging” themselves as someone who tackled challenges. He’ll have to find his own challenges and passions later in life to at least seem authentic. And I say it as a parent of a kid who took Calculus in middle school.

The calculus BC kid can still get a glowing letter of recommendation as a person that was very involved in the community, math club, maybe not as highest level of math, maybe not necessarily from the math teacher, but still a strong letter of recommendation.

Classes alone is not the route to get into those colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great! People who don't want math acceleration can opt out, and those who want it can have it available. Everyone should choose what they think works best for their child.

Anyone who truly believes that math acceleration confers no benefit shouldn't be bothered by other kids who do accelerate.

Sounds about right.

But if you go on a public forum claiming it’s beneficial for admissions at top colleges, don’t be surprised if you get some pushback.

Where would the advanced students go if not to top colleges? Of course not all, but a good number get offers from best colleges.

If 700 kids take Algebra in 6 in one district alone, it’s not possible that half of it will make it to top colleges. Probably not even 10%.

Colleges want to see a rigorous coursework and evidence the student can handle the classes for intended major. A kid entering high school at geometry, getting A, and completing AP calculus BC with 5, will check the most rigorous mark, and there’s no reason to believe they can’t handle more advanced college classes.

Taking more math classes won’t change that, it just means the kid was set on that path from elementary school because the parents put in the effort. Look up details in Harvard vs. Fair Admissions, at no point the DE math came out as a factor.

It’s going to be down to other things first and DE math has a negligible impact.

Colleges won't know that when they need to admit. They'll at most see the grades for the first quarter of Calc BC, and they won't have an AP score in the application packet for a kid taking BC in 12th. Kids who take BC in 11th will have both a full course grade and the AP score available in their application packet.

For the second bolded point, that depends entirely on the school district. In FCPS and LCPS, 7th grade Algebra has very little to do with parental effort and a lot more to do with natural math aptitude. The bar is not high, and many kids clear the bar with nothing more than the math taught in their schools.

If a student enters high school at precalculus, it is expected they’ll keep taking math over the years, and that implies math offered at high school or outside, and will include Calculus, Statistics, and others like Multivariable.

If a student enters high school at geometry, taking a regular progression of one math class per year they’ll end up at Calculus in senior year. While AP exam is not available, grades in first semester are.

Both are taking full advantage of what’s available to them in high school, colleges won’t be looking at what was done in middle school. It’s not expected students use their summers to advance in math.

One caveat is that students advanced in math often do other activities that make them better applicants, but that a classic example of correlation without causation.

People are so invested in believing their kid has a leg up, there’s nothing to convince them otherwise.

If your high school offers through multivariable calculus and your student enters high school in geometry and takes up through calc AB…no, they aren’t taking advantage of what is available to them. They are taking what’s appropriate for them, but that’s different from what’s available

Ok, somehow you know better than colleges themselves, but haven’t provided anything to substantiate your deeply held belief:

Here is what MIT says about the coursework in high school:

“To be clear, we do not expect students do anything above and beyond what is required to demonstrate their readiness for the MIT education. However, we also know that many of our applicants have interests, aptitudes, and curiosities that may carry themselves beyond what is offered at their local high school, and the resources here may help you explore those further if you wish.⁠”

Readiness is detailed in this link, Calculus being highest level of math that’s expected:
https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

You’re so enamored of the idea that your kid has a leg up from taking algebra in 6th grade that there’s nothing that could change your mind about it.

If your interest in math is leading to taking dual enrollment classes, that’s great. If your thing is being part of math club and tutor other students, doing research, or whatever floats your boat, that’s equally good. You won’t be dinged because you “only” took Calculus.

Please realize “readiness” for applicants is the minimum to apply. If you like at who is actually admitted and attends, the vast majority have had math beyond calc BC

If they took Statistics they'd understand the difference between correlation and causation.

MIT smirks at the "rigor" of a high school / dual Enrollment Multivariable Calc / Linear Algebra class. That's not what impresses them.

+1

What are you talking about? It isn’t what impresses them per se, but the majority of applicants getting accepted are going to have post BC calc math (among other impressive things).

That’s likely true for math majors, not sure you can generalize to all admits.

If you read what MIT says about post BC Calculus it’s clear those classes don’t carry as much weight as APs in Physics and Chemistry.

The rigor in DE varies widely, just from my kid taking Multivariable at the local community college, it’s easy to get an A without mastery and they don’t even cover the entire material. Colleges know this very well, yes, it adds something, but it won’t be the determining factor. And it’s not required, someone getting a 5 in Calculus BC would have absolutely no problem acing the community college Multivariable, so it’s not really a significant differentiator.

Since the acceleration occurs mostly in middle school, it says very little about talent and ability and more about socioeconomic status, it’s mostly parents buying enrichment and pushing for higher math placement. Again colleges know this, it’s not a secret to anyone, and it’s not the back door to top colleges as some claim.

The colleges know your socioeconomic status. Obviously, they’ll treat FGLI kids differently from UMC ones. If you’re a UMC kid, and most of the top kids from your school are in multivariable, you’ll look like a kid who is less motivated or less intelligent than your peer group.

You won’t look less motivated and less intelligent because your parents weren’t pushy enough to place you in Algebra in 6th grade. So much cope and wishful thinking from tiger parents.

You can still do Algebra in 7th and have no dual enrollment math if the school enforces Calculus AB then BC sequence or the student chooses to take AP Statistics in senior year. It’s not going to be looked down at.

Easy fix: take the AP AB exam as external student, then they have to admit you to BC directly.

No they don't. And good luck finding a spot

They do if the class is AP/DE and the participating college through which the class is offered accepts AP credit for Calc AB.

AP, which is what you were talking about, is not offered through a college.

Suppose the school says they won't offer high school credit for an AB score. What would your next steps be?

We don't need or want high school credit for AB. There's just not enough room in the schedule for AB given all the other AP courses DC will have to take in their sophomore year. Plus there needs to be room for fun classes like band/orchestra, foreign languages, and perhaps another elective like Robotics.

We just insist on being placed into the DE/AP Calculus BC course since we meet the prerequisites as posed by the college undersigning the DE portion.
Again, the courses are AP/DE (combined), not just AP. Students receive both DE credit and can take the AP exam.

You sound like a parent of a middle school student that doesn’t fully understand how AP, math placement, high school and dual enrollment credit works. You really seem very ignorant of the topic.

As it was mentioned before, the are no AP/DE combined courses. AP is a designation given by a private organization College Board if a course passes an audit. DE are classes taken for both high school and college while the student is enrolled at both institutions. Sometimes magnet schools call their advanced courses DE, but they are just electives and will not get any credit anywhere.

The reality is that if the school requests AP before BC taken at the school, there’s not much you can do, they are not obligated to accept outside courses and examinations.

That’s assuming you can find a school that will agree to accept your kid for the exam. There are stories of homeschooling parents calling all high school within a three hour driving radius and still not being able to find a spot because high schools are not obligated to accommodate your child.

You seem to be very confident of your kids abilities to pass the AP Calculus AB in 9th grade, even before finishing precalculus. That’s not a given, but hope dies last.

For dual enrollment at local community colleges, there may be age restrictions and your child might not be able to enroll until 11th grade and there are prerequisite to meet, again you’ll have to complete precalculus and trigonometry before enrolling in Calculus 1.

You know very little, but I love your confidence in telling others that what colleges say on their admissions websites doesn’t matter, offering advice on what MIT wants etc. You are in need of a generous portion of humility, because your only qualification is your kid takes algebra in 6th grade.

DP. You also know very little, since you seem to be incapable of grasping the idea that you're debating at least 3 other people.

I'm not the quoted PP here. I'm a different PP who thinks you are completely wrong that MIT is fine with only Calc BC if the kid is attending a school where hundreds of kids will have stellar stats and also a bunch of post-BC calc classes. Literally every college counseling service says that you are competing with the kids from your school and with the context of your school's offerings. But I guess you know better than every college counselor.

Also, FWIW, not everyone debating you has a 6th grader and is overly impressed that their kid is in algebra. Some of us have high schoolers, talk to college counselors, and have a pretty good clue. HYPSM want kids who are special. They don't want garden variety bright (FCPS 6th grade algebra) or garden variety UMC average (FCPS 8th grade algebra) kids. The 6th grade algebra kid has a somewhat better chance since they can at least package themselves more easily as someone willing to tackle challenges or as someone passionate about math. They're also more likely to receive one of those "best student in their grade level" or "best student I've ever taught" letters of recommendation.

I’m not too keen of bringing credentials into argumentation, but fyi I have a PhD in Physics from MIT. I know the caliber of students that end up at MIT and I don’t disagree they are looking for students that are special in some way. I’m just don’t have the arrogance to discount the kids that only ended up at Calculus AB or BC and labelling them as garden variety, and think a couple of classes will make a significant difference.

Sorry, but the kid that took 6th grade algebra won’t be successful in “packaging” themselves as someone who tackled challenges. He’ll have to find his own challenges and passions later in life to at least seem authentic. And I say it as a parent of a kid who took Calculus in middle school.

The calculus BC kid can still get a glowing letter of recommendation as a person that was very involved in the community, math club, maybe not as highest level of math, maybe not necessarily from the math teacher, but still a strong letter of recommendation.

Classes alone is not the route to get into those colleges.

For the first point, I'm not arrogant enough to discount kids who only end up in Calc AB/BC. But I absolutely can and will discount kids IN FCPS or similar systems who end up in only Calc BC as a senior without some sort of extenuating circumstance that would generally be addressed in the application. It's easy for any moderately bright kid in FCPS to take Algebra in 7th and Calc in 11th. Because it is so easy to do, and there are so many kids on this track, it's more or less expected for the top kids. Kids who don't qualify really, truly, are just not very smart in math. It's obviously a different situation in different school systems. My kids' school sends several kids to HYPSM each year. They're all full package kids, including the post-Calc math, science fair stuff, or olympiad qualifications.

For the second point, there isn't a lot of room at HYPSM for UMC Asian or White unhooked STEM majors from Fairfax. Kids likely need one of those "best ever" recommendations to move the needle, and a kid in Fairfax who wasn't even smart enough to qualify for 7th grade algebra simply won't be that kid. If 100+ kids apply, and the regional AO can only forward some small fraction to the next round, any negative at all could be a dealbreaker.

The third highlighted point is obvious. The only person who seemed to think the classes would significantly help with admission was a troll.

[Anonymous]

^Also, this seems like another situation where people want it to be a black and white issue, when in reality it isn't. There's a lot of space between stating that math level doesn't matter at all and math level is the end all and be all.

It should be pretty obvious to anyone who is not pushing an agenda that higher math level is better than a lower one if all else is equal. How much it matters is very debatable, but a higher math level is undoubtedly a factor that would be in the positive column, among many, many other things.

[Anonymous]

What do people think the implications of this will be for kids in IB high schools like Marshall? Like already there isn't a ton for them to do if they take Alg in 7th. It would be nice if Marshall started offering BC Calc that they could take in addition to the IB math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great! People who don't want math acceleration can opt out, and those who want it can have it available. Everyone should choose what they think works best for their child.

Anyone who truly believes that math acceleration confers no benefit shouldn't be bothered by other kids who do accelerate.

Sounds about right.

But if you go on a public forum claiming it’s beneficial for admissions at top colleges, don’t be surprised if you get some pushback.

Where would the advanced students go if not to top colleges? Of course not all, but a good number get offers from best colleges.

If 700 kids take Algebra in 6 in one district alone, it’s not possible that half of it will make it to top colleges. Probably not even 10%.

Colleges want to see a rigorous coursework and evidence the student can handle the classes for intended major. A kid entering high school at geometry, getting A, and completing AP calculus BC with 5, will check the most rigorous mark, and there’s no reason to believe they can’t handle more advanced college classes.

Taking more math classes won’t change that, it just means the kid was set on that path from elementary school because the parents put in the effort. Look up details in Harvard vs. Fair Admissions, at no point the DE math came out as a factor.

It’s going to be down to other things first and DE math has a negligible impact.

Colleges won't know that when they need to admit. They'll at most see the grades for the first quarter of Calc BC, and they won't have an AP score in the application packet for a kid taking BC in 12th. Kids who take BC in 11th will have both a full course grade and the AP score available in their application packet.

For the second bolded point, that depends entirely on the school district. In FCPS and LCPS, 7th grade Algebra has very little to do with parental effort and a lot more to do with natural math aptitude. The bar is not high, and many kids clear the bar with nothing more than the math taught in their schools.

If a student enters high school at precalculus, it is expected they’ll keep taking math over the years, and that implies math offered at high school or outside, and will include Calculus, Statistics, and others like Multivariable.

If a student enters high school at geometry, taking a regular progression of one math class per year they’ll end up at Calculus in senior year. While AP exam is not available, grades in first semester are.

Both are taking full advantage of what’s available to them in high school, colleges won’t be looking at what was done in middle school. It’s not expected students use their summers to advance in math.

One caveat is that students advanced in math often do other activities that make them better applicants, but that a classic example of correlation without causation.

People are so invested in believing their kid has a leg up, there’s nothing to convince them otherwise.

If your high school offers through multivariable calculus and your student enters high school in geometry and takes up through calc AB…no, they aren’t taking advantage of what is available to them. They are taking what’s appropriate for them, but that’s different from what’s available

Ok, somehow you know better than colleges themselves, but haven’t provided anything to substantiate your deeply held belief:

Here is what MIT says about the coursework in high school:

“To be clear, we do not expect students do anything above and beyond what is required to demonstrate their readiness for the MIT education. However, we also know that many of our applicants have interests, aptitudes, and curiosities that may carry themselves beyond what is offered at their local high school, and the resources here may help you explore those further if you wish.⁠”

Readiness is detailed in this link, Calculus being highest level of math that’s expected:
https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

You’re so enamored of the idea that your kid has a leg up from taking algebra in 6th grade that there’s nothing that could change your mind about it.

If your interest in math is leading to taking dual enrollment classes, that’s great. If your thing is being part of math club and tutor other students, doing research, or whatever floats your boat, that’s equally good. You won’t be dinged because you “only” took Calculus.

Please realize “readiness” for applicants is the minimum to apply. If you like at who is actually admitted and attends, the vast majority have had math beyond calc BC

If they took Statistics they'd understand the difference between correlation and causation.

MIT smirks at the "rigor" of a high school / dual Enrollment Multivariable Calc / Linear Algebra class. That's not what impresses them.

+1

What are you talking about? It isn’t what impresses them per se, but the majority of applicants getting accepted are going to have post BC calc math (among other impressive things).

That’s likely true for math majors, not sure you can generalize to all admits.

If you read what MIT says about post BC Calculus it’s clear those classes don’t carry as much weight as APs in Physics and Chemistry.

The rigor in DE varies widely, just from my kid taking Multivariable at the local community college, it’s easy to get an A without mastery and they don’t even cover the entire material. Colleges know this very well, yes, it adds something, but it won’t be the determining factor. And it’s not required, someone getting a 5 in Calculus BC would have absolutely no problem acing the community college Multivariable, so it’s not really a significant differentiator.

Since the acceleration occurs mostly in middle school, it says very little about talent and ability and more about socioeconomic status, it’s mostly parents buying enrichment and pushing for higher math placement. Again colleges know this, it’s not a secret to anyone, and it’s not the back door to top colleges as some claim.

The colleges know your socioeconomic status. Obviously, they’ll treat FGLI kids differently from UMC ones. If you’re a UMC kid, and most of the top kids from your school are in multivariable, you’ll look like a kid who is less motivated or less intelligent than your peer group.

You won’t look less motivated and less intelligent because your parents weren’t pushy enough to place you in Algebra in 6th grade. So much cope and wishful thinking from tiger parents.

You can still do Algebra in 7th and have no dual enrollment math if the school enforces Calculus AB then BC sequence or the student chooses to take AP Statistics in senior year. It’s not going to be looked down at.

Easy fix: take the AP AB exam as external student, then they have to admit you to BC directly.

No they don't. And good luck finding a spot

They do if the class is AP/DE and the participating college through which the class is offered accepts AP credit for Calc AB.

AP, which is what you were talking about, is not offered through a college.

Suppose the school says they won't offer high school credit for an AB score. What would your next steps be?

We don't need or want high school credit for AB. There's just not enough room in the schedule for AB given all the other AP courses DC will have to take in their sophomore year. Plus there needs to be room for fun classes like band/orchestra, foreign languages, and perhaps another elective like Robotics.

We just insist on being placed into the DE/AP Calculus BC course since we meet the prerequisites as posed by the college undersigning the DE portion.
Again, the courses are AP/DE (combined), not just AP. Students receive both DE credit and can take the AP exam.

You sound like a parent of a middle school student that doesn’t fully understand how AP, math placement, high school and dual enrollment credit works. You really seem very ignorant of the topic.

As it was mentioned before, the are no AP/DE combined courses. AP is a designation given by a private organization College Board if a course passes an audit. DE are classes taken for both high school and college while the student is enrolled at both institutions. Sometimes magnet schools call their advanced courses DE, but they are just electives and will not get any credit anywhere.

The reality is that if the school requests AP before BC taken at the school, there’s not much you can do, they are not obligated to accept outside courses and examinations.

That’s assuming you can find a school that will agree to accept your kid for the exam. There are stories of homeschooling parents calling all high school within a three hour driving radius and still not being able to find a spot because high schools are not obligated to accommodate your child.

You seem to be very confident of your kids abilities to pass the AP Calculus AB in 9th grade, even before finishing precalculus. That’s not a given, but hope dies last.

For dual enrollment at local community colleges, there may be age restrictions and your child might not be able to enroll until 11th grade and there are prerequisite to meet, again you’ll have to complete precalculus and trigonometry before enrolling in Calculus 1.

You know very little, but I love your confidence in telling others that what colleges say on their admissions websites doesn’t matter, offering advice on what MIT wants etc. You are in need of a generous portion of humility, because your only qualification is your kid takes algebra in 6th grade.

Thank you for enlightening me. I must have imagined that the school cashed our check, provided the 6-digit join code and now the AB exam shows up in my child AP classroom.
Thank you correcting my hallucinations.

Also thank you for clarifying that there are no combined AP/DE courses. I must have imagined the big letters that say "DE/AP" on the LMS website of the class our child is enrolled in.

[Anonymous]

People get stuck on the idea that the path to a good stem college is the highest level of math, Olympiad competitions, and science fairs. Something where you’re compared with others and end up on top. Then everyone wants to follow this path and get “packaged” as winning the most comparisons to “impress” the AOs. It can’t hurt if it’s “more”.

The issue is the opportunity cost of finding something you truly love doing even if it’s off the beaten path.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Great! People who don't want math acceleration can opt out, and those who want it can have it available. Everyone should choose what they think works best for their child.

Anyone who truly believes that math acceleration confers no benefit shouldn't be bothered by other kids who do accelerate.

Sounds about right.

But if you go on a public forum claiming it’s beneficial for admissions at top colleges, don’t be surprised if you get some pushback.

Where would the advanced students go if not to top colleges? Of course not all, but a good number get offers from best colleges.

If 700 kids take Algebra in 6 in one district alone, it’s not possible that half of it will make it to top colleges. Probably not even 10%.

Colleges want to see a rigorous coursework and evidence the student can handle the classes for intended major. A kid entering high school at geometry, getting A, and completing AP calculus BC with 5, will check the most rigorous mark, and there’s no reason to believe they can’t handle more advanced college classes.

Taking more math classes won’t change that, it just means the kid was set on that path from elementary school because the parents put in the effort. Look up details in Harvard vs. Fair Admissions, at no point the DE math came out as a factor.

It’s going to be down to other things first and DE math has a negligible impact.

Colleges won't know that when they need to admit. They'll at most see the grades for the first quarter of Calc BC, and they won't have an AP score in the application packet for a kid taking BC in 12th. Kids who take BC in 11th will have both a full course grade and the AP score available in their application packet.

For the second bolded point, that depends entirely on the school district. In FCPS and LCPS, 7th grade Algebra has very little to do with parental effort and a lot more to do with natural math aptitude. The bar is not high, and many kids clear the bar with nothing more than the math taught in their schools.

If a student enters high school at precalculus, it is expected they’ll keep taking math over the years, and that implies math offered at high school or outside, and will include Calculus, Statistics, and others like Multivariable.

If a student enters high school at geometry, taking a regular progression of one math class per year they’ll end up at Calculus in senior year. While AP exam is not available, grades in first semester are.

Both are taking full advantage of what’s available to them in high school, colleges won’t be looking at what was done in middle school. It’s not expected students use their summers to advance in math.

One caveat is that students advanced in math often do other activities that make them better applicants, but that a classic example of correlation without causation.

People are so invested in believing their kid has a leg up, there’s nothing to convince them otherwise.

If your high school offers through multivariable calculus and your student enters high school in geometry and takes up through calc AB…no, they aren’t taking advantage of what is available to them. They are taking what’s appropriate for them, but that’s different from what’s available

Ok, somehow you know better than colleges themselves, but haven’t provided anything to substantiate your deeply held belief:

Here is what MIT says about the coursework in high school:

“To be clear, we do not expect students do anything above and beyond what is required to demonstrate their readiness for the MIT education. However, we also know that many of our applicants have interests, aptitudes, and curiosities that may carry themselves beyond what is offered at their local high school, and the resources here may help you explore those further if you wish.⁠”

Readiness is detailed in this link, Calculus being highest level of math that’s expected:
https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

You’re so enamored of the idea that your kid has a leg up from taking algebra in 6th grade that there’s nothing that could change your mind about it.

If your interest in math is leading to taking dual enrollment classes, that’s great. If your thing is being part of math club and tutor other students, doing research, or whatever floats your boat, that’s equally good. You won’t be dinged because you “only” took Calculus.

Please realize “readiness” for applicants is the minimum to apply. If you like at who is actually admitted and attends, the vast majority have had math beyond calc BC

If they took Statistics they'd understand the difference between correlation and causation.

MIT smirks at the "rigor" of a high school / dual Enrollment Multivariable Calc / Linear Algebra class. That's not what impresses them.

+1

What are you talking about? It isn’t what impresses them per se, but the majority of applicants getting accepted are going to have post BC calc math (among other impressive things).

That’s likely true for math majors, not sure you can generalize to all admits.

If you read what MIT says about post BC Calculus it’s clear those classes don’t carry as much weight as APs in Physics and Chemistry.

The rigor in DE varies widely, just from my kid taking Multivariable at the local community college, it’s easy to get an A without mastery and they don’t even cover the entire material. Colleges know this very well, yes, it adds something, but it won’t be the determining factor. And it’s not required, someone getting a 5 in Calculus BC would have absolutely no problem acing the community college Multivariable, so it’s not really a significant differentiator.

Since the acceleration occurs mostly in middle school, it says very little about talent and ability and more about socioeconomic status, it’s mostly parents buying enrichment and pushing for higher math placement. Again colleges know this, it’s not a secret to anyone, and it’s not the back door to top colleges as some claim.

The colleges know your socioeconomic status. Obviously, they’ll treat FGLI kids differently from UMC ones. If you’re a UMC kid, and most of the top kids from your school are in multivariable, you’ll look like a kid who is less motivated or less intelligent than your peer group.

You won’t look less motivated and less intelligent because your parents weren’t pushy enough to place you in Algebra in 6th grade. So much cope and wishful thinking from tiger parents.

You can still do Algebra in 7th and have no dual enrollment math if the school enforces Calculus AB then BC sequence or the student chooses to take AP Statistics in senior year. It’s not going to be looked down at.

Easy fix: take the AP AB exam as external student, then they have to admit you to BC directly.

No they don't. And good luck finding a spot

They do if the class is AP/DE and the participating college through which the class is offered accepts AP credit for Calc AB.

AP, which is what you were talking about, is not offered through a college.

Suppose the school says they won't offer high school credit for an AB score. What would your next steps be?

We don't need or want high school credit for AB. There's just not enough room in the schedule for AB given all the other AP courses DC will have to take in their sophomore year. Plus there needs to be room for fun classes like band/orchestra, foreign languages, and perhaps another elective like Robotics.

We just insist on being placed into the DE/AP Calculus BC course since we meet the prerequisites as posed by the college undersigning the DE portion.
Again, the courses are AP/DE (combined), not just AP. Students receive both DE credit and can take the AP exam.

You sound like a parent of a middle school student that doesn’t fully understand how AP, math placement, high school and dual enrollment credit works. You really seem very ignorant of the topic.

As it was mentioned before, the are no AP/DE combined courses. AP is a designation given by a private organization College Board if a course passes an audit. DE are classes taken for both high school and college while the student is enrolled at both institutions. Sometimes magnet schools call their advanced courses DE, but they are just electives and will not get any credit anywhere.

The reality is that if the school requests AP before BC taken at the school, there’s not much you can do, they are not obligated to accept outside courses and examinations.

That’s assuming you can find a school that will agree to accept your kid for the exam. There are stories of homeschooling parents calling all high school within a three hour driving radius and still not being able to find a spot because high schools are not obligated to accommodate your child.

You seem to be very confident of your kids abilities to pass the AP Calculus AB in 9th grade, even before finishing precalculus. That’s not a given, but hope dies last.

For dual enrollment at local community colleges, there may be age restrictions and your child might not be able to enroll until 11th grade and there are prerequisite to meet, again you’ll have to complete precalculus and trigonometry before enrolling in Calculus 1.

You know very little, but I love your confidence in telling others that what colleges say on their admissions websites doesn’t matter, offering advice on what MIT wants etc. You are in need of a generous portion of humility, because your only qualification is your kid takes algebra in 6th grade.

DP. You also know very little, since you seem to be incapable of grasping the idea that you're debating at least 3 other people.

I'm not the quoted PP here. I'm a different PP who thinks you are completely wrong that MIT is fine with only Calc BC if the kid is attending a school where hundreds of kids will have stellar stats and also a bunch of post-BC calc classes. Literally every college counseling service says that you are competing with the kids from your school and with the context of your school's offerings. But I guess you know better than every college counselor.

Also, FWIW, not everyone debating you has a 6th grader and is overly impressed that their kid is in algebra. Some of us have high schoolers, talk to college counselors, and have a pretty good clue. HYPSM want kids who are special. They don't want garden variety bright (FCPS 6th grade algebra) or garden variety UMC average (FCPS 8th grade algebra) kids. The 6th grade algebra kid has a somewhat better chance since they can at least package themselves more easily as someone willing to tackle challenges or as someone passionate about math. They're also more likely to receive one of those "best student in their grade level" or "best student I've ever taught" letters of recommendation.

I’m not too keen of bringing credentials into argumentation, but fyi I have a PhD in Physics from MIT. I know the caliber of students that end up at MIT and I don’t disagree they are looking for students that are special in some way. I’m just don’t have the arrogance to discount the kids that only ended up at Calculus AB or BC and labelling them as garden variety, and think a couple of classes will make a significant difference.

Sorry, but the kid that took 6th grade algebra won’t be successful in “packaging” themselves as someone who tackled challenges. He’ll have to find his own challenges and passions later in life to at least seem authentic. And I say it as a parent of a kid who took Calculus in middle school.

The calculus BC kid can still get a glowing letter of recommendation as a person that was very involved in the community, math club, maybe not as highest level of math, maybe not necessarily from the math teacher, but still a strong letter of recommendation.

Classes alone is not the route to get into those colleges.

For the first point, I'm not arrogant enough to discount kids who only end up in Calc AB/BC. But I absolutely can and will discount kids IN FCPS or similar systems who end up in only Calc BC as a senior without some sort of extenuating circumstance that would generally be addressed in the application. It's easy for any moderately bright kid in FCPS to take Algebra in 7th and Calc in 11th. Because it is so easy to do, and there are so many kids on this track, it's more or less expected for the top kids. Kids who don't qualify really, truly, are just not very smart in math. It's obviously a different situation in different school systems. My kids' school sends several kids to HYPSM each year. They're all full package kids, including the post-Calc math, science fair stuff, or olympiad qualifications.

For the second point, there isn't a lot of room at HYPSM for UMC Asian or White unhooked STEM majors from Fairfax. Kids likely need one of those "best ever" recommendations to move the needle, and a kid in Fairfax who wasn't even smart enough to qualify for 7th grade algebra simply won't be that kid. If 100+ kids apply, and the regional AO can only forward some small fraction to the next round, any negative at all could be a dealbreaker.

The third highlighted point is obvious. The only person who seemed to think the classes would significantly help with admission was a troll.

I don’t see a good argument to discount the FCPS kids in Calculus BC. Maybe they took Statistics, they weren’t heavily prepped by their parents, found an interest in academics later as they matured. They can get a best ever recommendation from someone else, just not the math teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^Also, this seems like another situation where people want it to be a black and white issue, when in reality it isn't. There's a lot of space between stating that math level doesn't matter at all and math level is the end all and be all.

It should be pretty obvious to anyone who is not pushing an agenda that higher math level is better than a lower one if all else is equal. How much it matters is very debatable, but a higher math level is undoubtedly a factor that would be in the positive column, among many, many other things.

The argument is that it’s not a gradation and once you get to a certain threshold, the extra math level is not that important. The many, many other things factor more and the differential equations class is in the noise floor.

Since the admission is holistic, it’s hard to tell exactly how much it matters, but we should give some consideration to how colleges say they evaluate applicants. They say they don’t expect above and beyond. I don’t think they lie, or that it’s a generic statement to encourage applicant so they cash in the processing fee and keep the admissions rates low. I interpret it as looking for other ways for applicants to demonstrate talent.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Great! People who don't want math acceleration can opt out, and those who want it can have it available. Everyone should choose what they think works best for their child.

Anyone who truly believes that math acceleration confers no benefit shouldn't be bothered by other kids who do accelerate.

Sounds about right.

But if you go on a public forum claiming it’s beneficial for admissions at top colleges, don’t be surprised if you get some pushback.

Where would the advanced students go if not to top colleges? Of course not all, but a good number get offers from best colleges.

If 700 kids take Algebra in 6 in one district alone, it’s not possible that half of it will make it to top colleges. Probably not even 10%.

Colleges want to see a rigorous coursework and evidence the student can handle the classes for intended major. A kid entering high school at geometry, getting A, and completing AP calculus BC with 5, will check the most rigorous mark, and there’s no reason to believe they can’t handle more advanced college classes.

Taking more math classes won’t change that, it just means the kid was set on that path from elementary school because the parents put in the effort. Look up details in Harvard vs. Fair Admissions, at no point the DE math came out as a factor.

It’s going to be down to other things first and DE math has a negligible impact.

Colleges won't know that when they need to admit. They'll at most see the grades for the first quarter of Calc BC, and they won't have an AP score in the application packet for a kid taking BC in 12th. Kids who take BC in 11th will have both a full course grade and the AP score available in their application packet.

For the second bolded point, that depends entirely on the school district. In FCPS and LCPS, 7th grade Algebra has very little to do with parental effort and a lot more to do with natural math aptitude. The bar is not high, and many kids clear the bar with nothing more than the math taught in their schools.

If a student enters high school at precalculus, it is expected they’ll keep taking math over the years, and that implies math offered at high school or outside, and will include Calculus, Statistics, and others like Multivariable.

If a student enters high school at geometry, taking a regular progression of one math class per year they’ll end up at Calculus in senior year. While AP exam is not available, grades in first semester are.

Both are taking full advantage of what’s available to them in high school, colleges won’t be looking at what was done in middle school. It’s not expected students use their summers to advance in math.

One caveat is that students advanced in math often do other activities that make them better applicants, but that a classic example of correlation without causation.

People are so invested in believing their kid has a leg up, there’s nothing to convince them otherwise.

If your high school offers through multivariable calculus and your student enters high school in geometry and takes up through calc AB…no, they aren’t taking advantage of what is available to them. They are taking what’s appropriate for them, but that’s different from what’s available

Ok, somehow you know better than colleges themselves, but haven’t provided anything to substantiate your deeply held belief:

Here is what MIT says about the coursework in high school:

“To be clear, we do not expect students do anything above and beyond what is required to demonstrate their readiness for the MIT education. However, we also know that many of our applicants have interests, aptitudes, and curiosities that may carry themselves beyond what is offered at their local high school, and the resources here may help you explore those further if you wish.⁠”

Readiness is detailed in this link, Calculus being highest level of math that’s expected:
https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

You’re so enamored of the idea that your kid has a leg up from taking algebra in 6th grade that there’s nothing that could change your mind about it.

If your interest in math is leading to taking dual enrollment classes, that’s great. If your thing is being part of math club and tutor other students, doing research, or whatever floats your boat, that’s equally good. You won’t be dinged because you “only” took Calculus.

Please realize “readiness” for applicants is the minimum to apply. If you like at who is actually admitted and attends, the vast majority have had math beyond calc BC

If they took Statistics they'd understand the difference between correlation and causation.

MIT smirks at the "rigor" of a high school / dual Enrollment Multivariable Calc / Linear Algebra class. That's not what impresses them.

+1

What are you talking about? It isn’t what impresses them per se, but the majority of applicants getting accepted are going to have post BC calc math (among other impressive things).

That’s likely true for math majors, not sure you can generalize to all admits.

If you read what MIT says about post BC Calculus it’s clear those classes don’t carry as much weight as APs in Physics and Chemistry.

The rigor in DE varies widely, just from my kid taking Multivariable at the local community college, it’s easy to get an A without mastery and they don’t even cover the entire material. Colleges know this very well, yes, it adds something, but it won’t be the determining factor. And it’s not required, someone getting a 5 in Calculus BC would have absolutely no problem acing the community college Multivariable, so it’s not really a significant differentiator.

Since the acceleration occurs mostly in middle school, it says very little about talent and ability and more about socioeconomic status, it’s mostly parents buying enrichment and pushing for higher math placement. Again colleges know this, it’s not a secret to anyone, and it’s not the back door to top colleges as some claim.

The colleges know your socioeconomic status. Obviously, they’ll treat FGLI kids differently from UMC ones. If you’re a UMC kid, and most of the top kids from your school are in multivariable, you’ll look like a kid who is less motivated or less intelligent than your peer group.

You won’t look less motivated and less intelligent because your parents weren’t pushy enough to place you in Algebra in 6th grade. So much cope and wishful thinking from tiger parents.

You can still do Algebra in 7th and have no dual enrollment math if the school enforces Calculus AB then BC sequence or the student chooses to take AP Statistics in senior year. It’s not going to be looked down at.

Easy fix: take the AP AB exam as external student, then they have to admit you to BC directly.

No they don't. And good luck finding a spot

They do if the class is AP/DE and the participating college through which the class is offered accepts AP credit for Calc AB.

AP, which is what you were talking about, is not offered through a college.

Suppose the school says they won't offer high school credit for an AB score. What would your next steps be?

We don't need or want high school credit for AB. There's just not enough room in the schedule for AB given all the other AP courses DC will have to take in their sophomore year. Plus there needs to be room for fun classes like band/orchestra, foreign languages, and perhaps another elective like Robotics.

We just insist on being placed into the DE/AP Calculus BC course since we meet the prerequisites as posed by the college undersigning the DE portion.
Again, the courses are AP/DE (combined), not just AP. Students receive both DE credit and can take the AP exam.

You sound like a parent of a middle school student that doesn’t fully understand how AP, math placement, high school and dual enrollment credit works. You really seem very ignorant of the topic.

As it was mentioned before, the are no AP/DE combined courses. AP is a designation given by a private organization College Board if a course passes an audit. DE are classes taken for both high school and college while the student is enrolled at both institutions. Sometimes magnet schools call their advanced courses DE, but they are just electives and will not get any credit anywhere.

The reality is that if the school requests AP before BC taken at the school, there’s not much you can do, they are not obligated to accept outside courses and examinations.

That’s assuming you can find a school that will agree to accept your kid for the exam. There are stories of homeschooling parents calling all high school within a three hour driving radius and still not being able to find a spot because high schools are not obligated to accommodate your child.

You seem to be very confident of your kids abilities to pass the AP Calculus AB in 9th grade, even before finishing precalculus. That’s not a given, but hope dies last.

For dual enrollment at local community colleges, there may be age restrictions and your child might not be able to enroll until 11th grade and there are prerequisite to meet, again you’ll have to complete precalculus and trigonometry before enrolling in Calculus 1.

You know very little, but I love your confidence in telling others that what colleges say on their admissions websites doesn’t matter, offering advice on what MIT wants etc. You are in need of a generous portion of humility, because your only qualification is your kid takes algebra in 6th grade.

Thank you for enlightening me. I must have imagined that the school cashed our check, provided the 6-digit join code and now the AB exam shows up in my child AP classroom.
Thank you correcting my hallucinations.

Also thank you for clarifying that there are no combined AP/DE courses. I must have imagined the big letters that say "DE/AP" on the LMS website of the class our child is enrolled in.

For sure you’re hallucinating, because there are no combined AP/DE classes where a college undersigns the DE portion of the class. What does that even mean?

Link to the website if you have it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Also, this seems like another situation where people want it to be a black and white issue, when in reality it isn't. There's a lot of space between stating that math level doesn't matter at all and math level is the end all and be all.

It should be pretty obvious to anyone who is not pushing an agenda that higher math level is better than a lower one if all else is equal. How much it matters is very debatable, but a higher math level is undoubtedly a factor that would be in the positive column, among many, many other things.

The argument is that it’s not a gradation and once you get to a certain threshold, the extra math level is not that important. The many, many other things factor more and the differential equations class is in the noise floor.

Since the admission is holistic, it’s hard to tell exactly how much it matters, but we should give some consideration to how colleges say they evaluate applicants. They say they don’t expect above and beyond. I don’t think they lie, or that it’s a generic statement to encourage applicant so they cash in the processing fee and keep the admissions rates low. I interpret it as looking for other ways for applicants to demonstrate talent.

I interpret it as that they don't expect above and beyond what is readily available at your school. If your school is TJ, and a lot of kids are taking a lot of very advanced classes, then taking those classes isn't "above and beyond." It's the norm for that school. They don't expect kids to seek out college programs if their school caps out at Calculus. But they do expect kids to take full advantage of what's available at their school.

What is expected vs. above and beyond is highly school dependent. That's why no one can give blanket advice on what's expected, including the colleges, themselves. The college counselor for your school or paid ones who are very familiar with your school will have a better understanding of what a kid needs from that school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People get stuck on the idea that the path to a good stem college is the highest level of math, Olympiad competitions, and science fairs. Something where you’re compared with others and end up on top. Then everyone wants to follow this path and get “packaged” as winning the most comparisons to “impress” the AOs. It can’t hurt if it’s “more”.

The issue is the opportunity cost of finding something you truly love doing even if it’s off the beaten path.

Good grief. It doesn't matter if everyone wants to follow this path, since there are limited olympiad slots. USAMO only takes around 250 kids per year, and a kid would need to earn it in 11th grade or lower to use it in a college application. Similar arguments can be made for USAPhO and USNCO. Very few kids would have this distinction in their application, no matter how many kids are trying to follow this path.

I have yet to meet an olympiad qualifier who isn't incredibly passionate about math or the specific science. The kids following and succeeding on this path have already found the thing they truly love.