Atheism is losing popularity because it won’t own it’s own sins

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sigh. You view atheism as a belief system, and you want to compare it to your own belief system. You think it's a battle between belief systems for subscribers. Like people choose between Christianity and atheism the way they choose between Netflix and Hulu.

No.

It's more like Christianity is Netflix, Hulu is Islam, Max is Judaism, the Criterion Collection is Buddhism. And atheism is throwing out your TV.

Of course faith has an appeal, even to those who have lived without it. Especially to those who have lived without it. Religion also offers community and people crave that. But religions themselves don't always work within a person's life. It is normal for people to lose faith but then become curious about it again. It's easy to be a skeptic at 22, and it's easier to be a believer at 62.

I think Jews get it right because they support people in losing their faith within the religion. You can tell your own rabbi "I don't believe," and it's fine, you're still Jewish and nothing changes. The religion is about more than just faith, which can be hard to sustain.

Anyway, you are fighting over something that just doesn't work that way. No one is converting to atheism. They just lose faith.

I like this analogy.

OP's post definitely reads like atheism is just a counterpoint to Christianity rather than a reasoned rejection of fables and fairytales.

It seems like some religious people can only view the world through the lens of religion. A life without deep beliefs about supernatural forces just doesn't compute.

A life without deep beliefs in supernatural forces resulted in the deaths of over 100 million people.

A life with deep beliefs in supernatural forces has resulted in the deaths of many more.

But you have no statistics to back it up? It’s just your personal opinion and not verifiable information.


According to modern estimates, approximately 1.7 million people died as a result of the Crusades, which took place in nine separate campaigns from 1095-1291 CE.

According to modern estimates, around 150,000 people were prosecuted for various offences during the three-century duration of the Spanish Inquisition, of whom between 3,000 and 5,000 were executed, approximately 2.7 percent of all cases.

Estimates for the total number of people killed in wars throughout all of human history range from 150 million to 1 billion.

Massive wars: There have been four wars since the birth of Christ that exceeded 30 million deaths:

Three Kingdoms (220–280 AD, China, no Christians);
Mongol Conquests (1220–1240 in Eastern Europe, Christians were motivated to defend their land);
Taiping Rebellion (1850–1864, China, few to no Christians); and
World War 2 (1939–1945, global, ideological motives).

Causes of wars: In an in-depth study of the 1,763 wars spanning all of recorded warfare, only 123 were found to involve a religious cause, accounting for less than 7 percent of all wars and less than 2 percent of all people killed in warfare.

Summary: If you take the very worst case of all these facts, you get:

1 billion people killed in all wars;
2% of these, or 20 million, killed in religious wars; and
perhaps half of these killed in Christian wars, or 10 million victims.

So I don’t think you are being intellectually honest when you insist without any facts or stats that Christianity has the highest death toll per ideology.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sigh. You view atheism as a belief system, and you want to compare it to your own belief system. You think it's a battle between belief systems for subscribers. Like people choose between Christianity and atheism the way they choose between Netflix and Hulu.

No.

It's more like Christianity is Netflix, Hulu is Islam, Max is Judaism, the Criterion Collection is Buddhism. And atheism is throwing out your TV.

Of course faith has an appeal, even to those who have lived without it. Especially to those who have lived without it. Religion also offers community and people crave that. But religions themselves don't always work within a person's life. It is normal for people to lose faith but then become curious about it again. It's easy to be a skeptic at 22, and it's easier to be a believer at 62.

I think Jews get it right because they support people in losing their faith within the religion. You can tell your own rabbi "I don't believe," and it's fine, you're still Jewish and nothing changes. The religion is about more than just faith, which can be hard to sustain.

Anyway, you are fighting over something that just doesn't work that way. No one is converting to atheism. They just lose faith.

It's kind of tiresome. When one thread about athiesm dies down, another one pops up. It seems like someone is just begging for someone to argue with them. I have no idea if some are from the same poster or not, but holy crap get over it. Athiests are not coming after your Christian lifestyle. A lot (if not most) really don't give a damn.

Maybe it's someone who is losing their faith and is struggling with it. It's tough to learn that everything you've believed for decades is BS.

No, my faith has remained stable, and grows even in times of hardship and sadness on earth because I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I am grateful for the life He has given to me. No one can be taught to have a relationship with God. It’s something you come to on a personal level.

People are taught religion, but religion is not what people should center their life on-it’s their personal belief in Christ that brings joy and peace. Religion doesn’t always bring peace. God does.

I wonder what He thinks about You obsessing over atheism. On a Sunday morning.

He loves me- and you.

Which is exactly why he stays hidden while children die. Makes perfect sense.

And the atheists who killed 100+ million of their own people are completely ignored by you and other atheists because?

Men kill children, not God.

Why can’t men stop killing children? They have a moral code inside them they should be able to follow?

Atheists claim they can choose right from wrong- is that just atheists, but not all humans?

Can’t atheists show the rest of humanity how to be good and moral? It’s really needed.

Maybe write some books or open some atheist centers that can teach these things to other humans. Why are not helping humanity become better?

This is the same BS point as in the OP. It’s a complete fallacy. None of those things were done in the name of atheism.

Just in the same way, the crusades were not done in the name of not believing in Vishnu.

You are the one who believes in something that should be different if it was moral. It’s the classic problem of evil. It’s one of the great realizations and reasons to not believe in an omnipotent god. Because you realize that if he did exist, he would be horrible and that is contradictory. So must not be true.

So even though religion has flaws, in your opinion it has done nothing good?

And governments that mandated atheism had nothing to do with atheists?

And atheists know how to be good, moral people and help their fellow man by their own moral code, but have no interest in helping others and the world by explaining to others about this moral code that exists inside everyone?

You don’t have a responsibility to help your fellow man?

Your implication that atheists are immoral makes you a jerk. Because you know that’s not true. And you know that secular humanism is based on treating other people the way you want to be treated, which is as close to objective morality as we know exists.

Your belief system, however, includes a being who could stop all of the pain and suffering in the world in an instant, and chooses not to.

And you’re going to try and claim atheism is immoral? Wow that’s some twisted pretzel of logic there.

If humans have everything inside them to be good and moral- why aren’t they?

First, because morality isn’t objective. Second most humans.- and most I mean the vast majority - are what most other humans would consider good and moral

Yet an atheist answered that their moral code is whatever they think is right, based on their feelings.

People don’t have the same feelings and opinions about morals and ethics. At all.

Atheists state they have no defined rules or ethics or morals. No atheist subscribes to the same thoughts about anything except they deny God exists.

I don’t get how that is a moral code or ethics?

Are all atheists Secular Humanists?

Do you really not understand how it works for people to decide for themselves - based on their beliefs, their environment, their circumstances, their upbringing, etc - what is right and wrong?

So everyone who is an atheist will ignore 100 million dead?

Bad people kill people. Sometimes those bad people are atheist. Usually though, they are religious.

That’s a pretty strong statement.

And pretty accurate.

Only because we didn't have declared atheist governments until 1917. But they're doing a great job catching up, just look at Ukraine.

I said "bad people", not "bad governments".

Bad people kill people. Sometimes those bad people are atheist. Usually though, they are religious.

You're gonna need to cite that. Because if you look at the last hundred years, deaths in the USSR, Cambodia, China, and elsewhere probably far exceed deaths from religious fanatics.

I didn't say "religious fanatics" or "the last hundred years".

Bad people kill people. Sometimes those bad people are atheist. Usually though, they are religious.

We heard you the 3 times you have made the same statement on this thread with nothing to back it up. I am sure you will state it 4 times, go ahead.

Repeating something doesn’t make it true.

I'm repeating it because it's true. Most people who kill other people are religious.

If you want to look at the 20th century, "communists" are just a fraction of total killings. Go back farther and the % just drops further.


Most people who kill others (or really commit any crimes) are religious.

Do you have a source for that claim? If not, I am going to say you are making it up. You have no statistics from a reputable source, just very vague and general claims and zero details.

You have a link that shows how religious people commit more crimes than other people?

The vast majority of people killing others in the non-communism bubbles above are religious. ??

DP. Yeah, WWI and WWII weren't religious. Gun violence in the US isn't religious (except for a handful of fanatics).

Atheist pp is pulling stuff out of her butt, which is sad to watch.

Huh? I'm not talking about fanatics. I'm talking generally about people who kill others. Most of them are religious. Atheists only make up a small % of people. Certainly in WWI and WWII most of the people killing others (and more importantly those driving the killing) were religious.

So you are citing WWII as your source?
Those numbers are included in the stats on the infographic under Nazi Germany and fascism. Communism-atheism still killed more.

Every bubble that isn't communism counts toward killers who aren't atheists. You can take 10% off of those to account for other atheists.

It’s not individual killers, it’s their ideology.

Only a few countries had and have state mandated atheism- but those countries killed 100 million of their own citizens.

Democracy is on the infographic-it’s accounted for.

I'm talking about individual killers, not ideologies.

Most killers are religious. Apparently believing in the supernatural doesn't stop people from killing others.

You would have to admit that the vast majority of people have a belief in a God, and thus a higher percentage of people would be represented in every single crime demographic, because most people believe in something.

I’ve seen some very good information that shows that the majority of mass shooters are atheists. They are over represented in the demographic of mass shooters.

Again: nobody is claiming religious people don’t do bad things. They do. There’s more of them, compared to atheists.

It’s the complete denial by atheists that state mandated atheist governments killed 100 million of their own citizens, while absolutely denying that religion has had any positive effects in the world, that have soured people on New Atheism .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sigh. You view atheism as a belief system, and you want to compare it to your own belief system. You think it's a battle between belief systems for subscribers. Like people choose between Christianity and atheism the way they choose between Netflix and Hulu.

No.

It's more like Christianity is Netflix, Hulu is Islam, Max is Judaism, the Criterion Collection is Buddhism. And atheism is throwing out your TV.

Of course faith has an appeal, even to those who have lived without it. Especially to those who have lived without it. Religion also offers community and people crave that. But religions themselves don't always work within a person's life. It is normal for people to lose faith but then become curious about it again. It's easy to be a skeptic at 22, and it's easier to be a believer at 62.

I think Jews get it right because they support people in losing their faith within the religion. You can tell your own rabbi "I don't believe," and it's fine, you're still Jewish and nothing changes. The religion is about more than just faith, which can be hard to sustain.

Anyway, you are fighting over something that just doesn't work that way. No one is converting to atheism. They just lose faith.

I like this analogy.

OP's post definitely reads like atheism is just a counterpoint to Christianity rather than a reasoned rejection of fables and fairytales.

It seems like some religious people can only view the world through the lens of religion. A life without deep beliefs about supernatural forces just doesn't compute.

A life without deep beliefs in supernatural forces resulted in the deaths of over 100 million people.

A life with deep beliefs in supernatural forces has resulted in the deaths of many more.

But you have no statistics to back it up? It’s just your personal opinion and not verifiable information.


According to modern estimates, approximately 1.7 million people died as a result of the Crusades, which took place in nine separate campaigns from 1095-1291 CE.

According to modern estimates, around 150,000 people were prosecuted for various offences during the three-century duration of the Spanish Inquisition, of whom between 3,000 and 5,000 were executed, approximately 2.7 percent of all cases.

Estimates for the total number of people killed in wars throughout all of human history range from 150 million to 1 billion.

Massive wars: There have been four wars since the birth of Christ that exceeded 30 million deaths:

Three Kingdoms (220–280 AD, China, no Christians);
Mongol Conquests (1220–1240 in Eastern Europe, Christians were motivated to defend their land);
Taiping Rebellion (1850–1864, China, few to no Christians); and
World War 2 (1939–1945, global, ideological motives).

Causes of wars: In an in-depth study of the 1,763 wars spanning all of recorded warfare, only 123 were found to involve a religious cause, accounting for less than 7 percent of all wars and less than 2 percent of all people killed in warfare.

Summary: If you take the very worst case of all these facts, you get:

1 billion people killed in all wars;
2% of these, or 20 million, killed in religious wars; and
perhaps half of these killed in Christian wars, or 10 million victims.

So I don’t think you are being intellectually honest when you insist without any facts or stats that Christianity has the highest death toll per ideology.

I didn't say anything about Christianity? Or "religious wars".

I was talking about people who kill other people. Most of them are religious.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sigh. You view atheism as a belief system, and you want to compare it to your own belief system. You think it's a battle between belief systems for subscribers. Like people choose between Christianity and atheism the way they choose between Netflix and Hulu.

No.

It's more like Christianity is Netflix, Hulu is Islam, Max is Judaism, the Criterion Collection is Buddhism. And atheism is throwing out your TV.

Of course faith has an appeal, even to those who have lived without it. Especially to those who have lived without it. Religion also offers community and people crave that. But religions themselves don't always work within a person's life. It is normal for people to lose faith but then become curious about it again. It's easy to be a skeptic at 22, and it's easier to be a believer at 62.

I think Jews get it right because they support people in losing their faith within the religion. You can tell your own rabbi "I don't believe," and it's fine, you're still Jewish and nothing changes. The religion is about more than just faith, which can be hard to sustain.

Anyway, you are fighting over something that just doesn't work that way. No one is converting to atheism. They just lose faith.

It's kind of tiresome. When one thread about athiesm dies down, another one pops up. It seems like someone is just begging for someone to argue with them. I have no idea if some are from the same poster or not, but holy crap get over it. Athiests are not coming after your Christian lifestyle. A lot (if not most) really don't give a damn.

Maybe it's someone who is losing their faith and is struggling with it. It's tough to learn that everything you've believed for decades is BS.

No, my faith has remained stable, and grows even in times of hardship and sadness on earth because I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I am grateful for the life He has given to me. No one can be taught to have a relationship with God. It’s something you come to on a personal level.

People are taught religion, but religion is not what people should center their life on-it’s their personal belief in Christ that brings joy and peace. Religion doesn’t always bring peace. God does.

I wonder what He thinks about You obsessing over atheism. On a Sunday morning.

He loves me- and you.

Which is exactly why he stays hidden while children die. Makes perfect sense.

And the atheists who killed 100+ million of their own people are completely ignored by you and other atheists because?

Men kill children, not God.

Why can’t men stop killing children? They have a moral code inside them they should be able to follow?

Atheists claim they can choose right from wrong- is that just atheists, but not all humans?

Can’t atheists show the rest of humanity how to be good and moral? It’s really needed.

Maybe write some books or open some atheist centers that can teach these things to other humans. Why are not helping humanity become better?

This is the same BS point as in the OP. It’s a complete fallacy. None of those things were done in the name of atheism.

Just in the same way, the crusades were not done in the name of not believing in Vishnu.

You are the one who believes in something that should be different if it was moral. It’s the classic problem of evil. It’s one of the great realizations and reasons to not believe in an omnipotent god. Because you realize that if he did exist, he would be horrible and that is contradictory. So must not be true.

So even though religion has flaws, in your opinion it has done nothing good?

And governments that mandated atheism had nothing to do with atheists?

And atheists know how to be good, moral people and help their fellow man by their own moral code, but have no interest in helping others and the world by explaining to others about this moral code that exists inside everyone?

You don’t have a responsibility to help your fellow man?

Your implication that atheists are immoral makes you a jerk. Because you know that’s not true. And you know that secular humanism is based on treating other people the way you want to be treated, which is as close to objective morality as we know exists.

Your belief system, however, includes a being who could stop all of the pain and suffering in the world in an instant, and chooses not to.

And you’re going to try and claim atheism is immoral? Wow that’s some twisted pretzel of logic there.

If humans have everything inside them to be good and moral- why aren’t they?

First, because morality isn’t objective. Second most humans.- and most I mean the vast majority - are what most other humans would consider good and moral

Yet an atheist answered that their moral code is whatever they think is right, based on their feelings.

People don’t have the same feelings and opinions about morals and ethics. At all.

Atheists state they have no defined rules or ethics or morals. No atheist subscribes to the same thoughts about anything except they deny God exists.

I don’t get how that is a moral code or ethics?

Are all atheists Secular Humanists?

Do you really not understand how it works for people to decide for themselves - based on their beliefs, their environment, their circumstances, their upbringing, etc - what is right and wrong?

So everyone who is an atheist will ignore 100 million dead?

Bad people kill people. Sometimes those bad people are atheist. Usually though, they are religious.

That’s a pretty strong statement.

And pretty accurate.

Only because we didn't have declared atheist governments until 1917. But they're doing a great job catching up, just look at Ukraine.

I said "bad people", not "bad governments".

Bad people kill people. Sometimes those bad people are atheist. Usually though, they are religious.

You're gonna need to cite that. Because if you look at the last hundred years, deaths in the USSR, Cambodia, China, and elsewhere probably far exceed deaths from religious fanatics.

I didn't say "religious fanatics" or "the last hundred years".

Bad people kill people. Sometimes those bad people are atheist. Usually though, they are religious.

We heard you the 3 times you have made the same statement on this thread with nothing to back it up. I am sure you will state it 4 times, go ahead.

Repeating something doesn’t make it true.

I'm repeating it because it's true. Most people who kill other people are religious.

If you want to look at the 20th century, "communists" are just a fraction of total killings. Go back farther and the % just drops further.


Most people who kill others (or really commit any crimes) are religious.

Do you have a source for that claim? If not, I am going to say you are making it up. You have no statistics from a reputable source, just very vague and general claims and zero details.

You have a link that shows how religious people commit more crimes than other people?

The vast majority of people killing others in the non-communism bubbles above are religious. ??

DP. Yeah, WWI and WWII weren't religious. Gun violence in the US isn't religious (except for a handful of fanatics).

Atheist pp is pulling stuff out of her butt, which is sad to watch.

Huh? I'm not talking about fanatics. I'm talking generally about people who kill others. Most of them are religious. Atheists only make up a small % of people. Certainly in WWI and WWII most of the people killing others (and more importantly those driving the killing) were religious.

So you are citing WWII as your source?
Those numbers are included in the stats on the infographic under Nazi Germany and fascism. Communism-atheism still killed more.

Every bubble that isn't communism counts toward killers who aren't atheists. You can take 10% off of those to account for other atheists.

It’s not individual killers, it’s their ideology.

Only a few countries had and have state mandated atheism- but those countries killed 100 million of their own citizens.

Democracy is on the infographic-it’s accounted for.

I'm talking about individual killers, not ideologies.

Most killers are religious. Apparently believing in the supernatural doesn't stop people from killing others.

You would have to admit that the vast majority of people have a belief in a God, and thus a higher percentage of people would be represented in every single crime demographic, because most people believe in something.

I’ve seen some very good information that shows that the majority of mass shooters are atheists. They are over represented in the demographic of mass shooters.

Again: nobody is claiming religious people don’t do bad things. They do. There’s more of them, compared to atheists.

It’s the complete denial by atheists that state mandated atheist governments killed 100 million of their own citizens, while absolutely denying that religion has had any positive effects in the world, that have soured people on New Atheism .

I don't really follow "New Atheists" as closely as you do. Are they pushing for mandated atheism?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also I've actually seen no proof that atheism is on the decline.

And the thread isn’t saying that- it’s specifically talking about New Atheism and it’s proponents, who actively oppose religion and declare that religion hasn’t added one thing of value to the world.

There are people who don’t believe in God that are good people. There are people who believe in God that are bad people because they don’t actually do what God says they should do.

It’s not all or nothing and when the New Atheists were found to be lacking and rigid, people who formerly embraced them denounced them and left their brand of atheism. That has been explained multiple times on this thread. Probably on every page.

The vast majority of atheists DGAF about these random atheists. Some religious people on DCUM seem to care about them A LOT though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sigh. You view atheism as a belief system, and you want to compare it to your own belief system. You think it's a battle between belief systems for subscribers. Like people choose between Christianity and atheism the way they choose between Netflix and Hulu.

No.

It's more like Christianity is Netflix, Hulu is Islam, Max is Judaism, the Criterion Collection is Buddhism. And atheism is throwing out your TV.

Of course faith has an appeal, even to those who have lived without it. Especially to those who have lived without it. Religion also offers community and people crave that. But religions themselves don't always work within a person's life. It is normal for people to lose faith but then become curious about it again. It's easy to be a skeptic at 22, and it's easier to be a believer at 62.

I think Jews get it right because they support people in losing their faith within the religion. You can tell your own rabbi "I don't believe," and it's fine, you're still Jewish and nothing changes. The religion is about more than just faith, which can be hard to sustain.

Anyway, you are fighting over something that just doesn't work that way. No one is converting to atheism. They just lose faith.

I like this analogy.

OP's post definitely reads like atheism is just a counterpoint to Christianity rather than a reasoned rejection of fables and fairytales.

It seems like some religious people can only view the world through the lens of religion. A life without deep beliefs about supernatural forces just doesn't compute.

A life without deep beliefs in supernatural forces resulted in the deaths of over 100 million people.

A life with deep beliefs in supernatural forces has resulted in the deaths of many more.

But you have no statistics to back it up? It’s just your personal opinion and not verifiable information.


According to modern estimates, approximately 1.7 million people died as a result of the Crusades, which took place in nine separate campaigns from 1095-1291 CE.

According to modern estimates, around 150,000 people were prosecuted for various offences during the three-century duration of the Spanish Inquisition, of whom between 3,000 and 5,000 were executed, approximately 2.7 percent of all cases.

Estimates for the total number of people killed in wars throughout all of human history range from 150 million to 1 billion.

Massive wars: There have been four wars since the birth of Christ that exceeded 30 million deaths:

Three Kingdoms (220–280 AD, China, no Christians);
Mongol Conquests (1220–1240 in Eastern Europe, Christians were motivated to defend their land);
Taiping Rebellion (1850–1864, China, few to no Christians); and
World War 2 (1939–1945, global, ideological motives).

Causes of wars: In an in-depth study of the 1,763 wars spanning all of recorded warfare, only 123 were found to involve a religious cause, accounting for less than 7 percent of all wars and less than 2 percent of all people killed in warfare.

Summary: If you take the very worst case of all these facts, you get:

1 billion people killed in all wars;
2% of these, or 20 million, killed in religious wars; and
perhaps half of these killed in Christian wars, or 10 million victims.

So I don’t think you are being intellectually honest when you insist without any facts or stats that Christianity has the highest death toll per ideology.

I didn't say anything about Christianity? Or "religious wars".

I was talking about people who kill other people. Most of them are religious.

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The vast majority of U.S. adults believe in God, but the 81% who do so is down six percentage points from 2017 and is the lowest in Gallup's trend. Between 1944 and 2011, more than 90% of Americans believed in God.

Gallup's May 2-22 Values and Beliefs poll finds 17% of Americans saying they do not believe in God.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/393737/belief-god-dips-new-low.aspx#:~:text=WASHINGTON%2C%20D.C.%20%2D%2D%20The%20vast,the%20lowest%20in%20Gallup's%20trend

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also I've actually seen no proof that atheism is on the decline.

And the thread isn’t saying that- it’s specifically talking about New Atheism and it’s proponents, who actively oppose religion and declare that religion hasn’t added one thing of value to the world.

There are people who don’t believe in God that are good people. There are people who believe in God that are bad people because they don’t actually do what God says they should do.

It’s not all or nothing and when the New Atheists were found to be lacking and rigid, people who formerly embraced them denounced them and left their brand of atheism. That has been explained multiple times on this thread. Probably on every page.

The vast majority of atheists DGAF about these random atheists. Some religious people on DCUM seem to care about them A LOT though.

At the dawn of the new atheist movement, the thinkers who became known as “the four horsemen,” the heralds of religion's unraveling—Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Daniel Dennett—sat down together over cocktails.

https://www.amazon.com/Four-Horsemen-Conversation-Sparked-Revolution/dp/0525511954#:~:text=At%20the%20dawn%20of%20the,sat%20down%20together%20over%20cocktails.

These guys are random atheists?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also I've actually seen no proof that atheism is on the decline.

And the thread isn’t saying that- it’s specifically talking about New Atheism and it’s proponents, who actively oppose religion and declare that religion hasn’t added one thing of value to the world.

There are people who don’t believe in God that are good people. There are people who believe in God that are bad people because they don’t actually do what God says they should do.

It’s not all or nothing and when the New Atheists were found to be lacking and rigid, people who formerly embraced them denounced them and left their brand of atheism. That has been explained multiple times on this thread. Probably on every page.

The vast majority of atheists DGAF about these random atheists. Some religious people on DCUM seem to care about them A LOT though.

At the dawn of the new atheist movement, the thinkers who became known as “the four horsemen,” the heralds of religion's unraveling—Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Daniel Dennett—sat down together over cocktails.

https://www.amazon.com/Four-Horsemen-Conversation-Sparked-Revolution/dp/0525511954#:~:text=At%20the%20dawn%20of%20the,sat%20down%20together%20over%20cocktails.

These guys are random atheists?

Yes, they are just some random guys who happen to be atheists. The vast majority of atheists have no idea who they are or care what they say.

Unlike like DCUM religious people who are obsessed with them (and communism - WTF?).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also I've actually seen no proof that atheism is on the decline.

And the thread isn’t saying that- it’s specifically talking about New Atheism and it’s proponents, who actively oppose religion and declare that religion hasn’t added one thing of value to the world.

There are people who don’t believe in God that are good people. There are people who believe in God that are bad people because they don’t actually do what God says they should do.

It’s not all or nothing and when the New Atheists were found to be lacking and rigid, people who formerly embraced them denounced them and left their brand of atheism. That has been explained multiple times on this thread. Probably on every page.

The vast majority of atheists DGAF about these random atheists. Some religious people on DCUM seem to care about them A LOT though.

At the dawn of the new atheist movement, the thinkers who became known as “the four horsemen,” the heralds of religion's unraveling—Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Daniel Dennett—sat down together over cocktails.

https://www.amazon.com/Four-Horsemen-Conversation-Sparked-Revolution/dp/0525511954#:~:text=At%20the%20dawn%20of%20the,sat%20down%20together%20over%20cocktails.

These guys are random atheists?

Yes, they are just some random guys who happen to be atheists. The vast majority of atheists have no idea who they are or care what they say.

Unlike like DCUM religious people who are obsessed with them (and communism - WTF?).

Several key figures associated with the New Atheism movement include Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Daniel Dennett, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali.[5][19]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Atheism

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also I've actually seen no proof that atheism is on the decline.

And the thread isn’t saying that- it’s specifically talking about New Atheism and it’s proponents, who actively oppose religion and declare that religion hasn’t added one thing of value to the world.

There are people who don’t believe in God that are good people. There are people who believe in God that are bad people because they don’t actually do what God says they should do.

It’s not all or nothing and when the New Atheists were found to be lacking and rigid, people who formerly embraced them denounced them and left their brand of atheism. That has been explained multiple times on this thread. Probably on every page.

The vast majority of atheists DGAF about these random atheists. Some religious people on DCUM seem to care about them A LOT though.

At the dawn of the new atheist movement, the thinkers who became known as “the four horsemen,” the heralds of religion's unraveling—Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Daniel Dennett—sat down together over cocktails.

https://www.amazon.com/Four-Horsemen-Conversation-Sparked-Revolution/dp/0525511954#:~:text=At%20the%20dawn%20of%20the,sat%20down%20together%20over%20cocktails.

These guys are random atheists?

Yes, they are just some random guys who happen to be atheists. The vast majority of atheists have no idea who they are or care what they say.

Unlike like DCUM religious people who are obsessed with them (and communism - WTF?).

Several key figures associated with the New Atheism movement include Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Daniel Dennett, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali.[5][19]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Atheism

I have only heard of two of them because of religious people on DCUM who are obsessed with them.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also I've actually seen no proof that atheism is on the decline.

And the thread isn’t saying that- it’s specifically talking about New Atheism and it’s proponents, who actively oppose religion and declare that religion hasn’t added one thing of value to the world.

There are people who don’t believe in God that are good people. There are people who believe in God that are bad people because they don’t actually do what God says they should do.

It’s not all or nothing and when the New Atheists were found to be lacking and rigid, people who formerly embraced them denounced them and left their brand of atheism. That has been explained multiple times on this thread. Probably on every page.

The vast majority of atheists DGAF about these random atheists. Some religious people on DCUM seem to care about them A LOT though.

At the dawn of the new atheist movement, the thinkers who became known as “the four horsemen,” the heralds of religion's unraveling—Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Daniel Dennett—sat down together over cocktails.

https://www.amazon.com/Four-Horsemen-Conversation-Sparked-Revolution/dp/0525511954#:~:text=At%20the%20dawn%20of%20the,sat%20down%20together%20over%20cocktails.

These guys are random atheists?

Yes, they are just some random guys who happen to be atheists. The vast majority of atheists have no idea who they are or care what they say.

Unlike like DCUM religious people who are obsessed with them (and communism - WTF?).

Several key figures associated with the New Atheism movement include Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Daniel Dennett, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali.[5][19]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Atheism

I have only heard of two of them because of religious people on DCUM who are obsessed with them.

Yes, you learn all about atheism in the religion forum. We believe you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also I've actually seen no proof that atheism is on the decline.

And the thread isn’t saying that- it’s specifically talking about New Atheism and it’s proponents, who actively oppose religion and declare that religion hasn’t added one thing of value to the world.

There are people who don’t believe in God that are good people. There are people who believe in God that are bad people because they don’t actually do what God says they should do.

It’s not all or nothing and when the New Atheists were found to be lacking and rigid, people who formerly embraced them denounced them and left their brand of atheism. That has been explained multiple times on this thread. Probably on every page.

The vast majority of atheists DGAF about these random atheists. Some religious people on DCUM seem to care about them A LOT though.

At the dawn of the new atheist movement, the thinkers who became known as “the four horsemen,” the heralds of religion's unraveling—Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Daniel Dennett—sat down together over cocktails.

https://www.amazon.com/Four-Horsemen-Conversation-Sparked-Revolution/dp/0525511954#:~:text=At%20the%20dawn%20of%20the,sat%20down%20together%20over%20cocktails.

These guys are random atheists?

Yes, they are just some random guys who happen to be atheists. The vast majority of atheists have no idea who they are or care what they say.

Unlike like DCUM religious people who are obsessed with them (and communism - WTF?).

Several key figures associated with the New Atheism movement include Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Daniel Dennett, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali.[5][19]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Atheism

I have only heard of two of them because of religious people on DCUM who are obsessed with them.

Yes, you learn all about atheism in the religion forum. We believe you.

I don’t really “learn” about atheism anywhere. There isn’t anything to learn.

Some religious people on DCUM are obsessed with atheists and start many threads about them. I wonder what hateful threads they will start this Christmas. Almost ‘tis the season.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sigh. You view atheism as a belief system, and you want to compare it to your own belief system. You think it's a battle between belief systems for subscribers. Like people choose between Christianity and atheism the way they choose between Netflix and Hulu.

No.

It's more like Christianity is Netflix, Hulu is Islam, Max is Judaism, the Criterion Collection is Buddhism. And atheism is throwing out your TV.

Of course faith has an appeal, even to those who have lived without it. Especially to those who have lived without it. Religion also offers community and people crave that. But religions themselves don't always work within a person's life. It is normal for people to lose faith but then become curious about it again. It's easy to be a skeptic at 22, and it's easier to be a believer at 62.

I think Jews get it right because they support people in losing their faith within the religion. You can tell your own rabbi "I don't believe," and it's fine, you're still Jewish and nothing changes. The religion is about more than just faith, which can be hard to sustain.

Anyway, you are fighting over something that just doesn't work that way. No one is converting to atheism. They just lose faith.

It's kind of tiresome. When one thread about athiesm dies down, another one pops up. It seems like someone is just begging for someone to argue with them. I have no idea if some are from the same poster or not, but holy crap get over it. Athiests are not coming after your Christian lifestyle. A lot (if not most) really don't give a damn.

Maybe it's someone who is losing their faith and is struggling with it. It's tough to learn that everything you've believed for decades is BS.

No, my faith has remained stable, and grows even in times of hardship and sadness on earth because I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I am grateful for the life He has given to me. No one can be taught to have a relationship with God. It’s something you come to on a personal level.

People are taught religion, but religion is not what people should center their life on-it’s their personal belief in Christ that brings joy and peace. Religion doesn’t always bring peace. God does.

I wonder what He thinks about You obsessing over atheism. On a Sunday morning.

He loves me- and you.

Which is exactly why he stays hidden while children die. Makes perfect sense.

And the atheists who killed 100+ million of their own people are completely ignored by you and other atheists because?

Men kill children, not God.

Why can’t men stop killing children? They have a moral code inside them they should be able to follow?

Atheists claim they can choose right from wrong- is that just atheists, but not all humans?

Can’t atheists show the rest of humanity how to be good and moral? It’s really needed.

Maybe write some books or open some atheist centers that can teach these things to other humans. Why are not helping humanity become better?

This is the same BS point as in the OP. It’s a complete fallacy. None of those things were done in the name of atheism.

Just in the same way, the crusades were not done in the name of not believing in Vishnu.

You are the one who believes in something that should be different if it was moral. It’s the classic problem of evil. It’s one of the great realizations and reasons to not believe in an omnipotent god. Because you realize that if he did exist, he would be horrible and that is contradictory. So must not be true.

So even though religion has flaws, in your opinion it has done nothing good?

And governments that mandated atheism had nothing to do with atheists?

And atheists know how to be good, moral people and help their fellow man by their own moral code, but have no interest in helping others and the world by explaining to others about this moral code that exists inside everyone?

You don’t have a responsibility to help your fellow man?

Your implication that atheists are immoral makes you a jerk. Because you know that’s not true. And you know that secular humanism is based on treating other people the way you want to be treated, which is as close to objective morality as we know exists.

Your belief system, however, includes a being who could stop all of the pain and suffering in the world in an instant, and chooses not to.

And you’re going to try and claim atheism is immoral? Wow that’s some twisted pretzel of logic there.

If humans have everything inside them to be good and moral- why aren’t they?

First, because morality isn’t objective. Second most humans.- and most I mean the vast majority - are what most other humans would consider good and moral

Yet an atheist answered that their moral code is whatever they think is right, based on their feelings.

People don’t have the same feelings and opinions about morals and ethics. At all.

Atheists state they have no defined rules or ethics or morals. No atheist subscribes to the same thoughts about anything except they deny God exists.

I don’t get how that is a moral code or ethics?

Are all atheists Secular Humanists?

Do you really not understand how it works for people to decide for themselves - based on their beliefs, their environment, their circumstances, their upbringing, etc - what is right and wrong?

So everyone who is an atheist will ignore 100 million dead?

Bad people kill people. Sometimes those bad people are atheist. Usually though, they are religious.

That’s a pretty strong statement.

And pretty accurate.

Only because we didn't have declared atheist governments until 1917. But they're doing a great job catching up, just look at Ukraine.

I said "bad people", not "bad governments".

Bad people kill people. Sometimes those bad people are atheist. Usually though, they are religious.

You're gonna need to cite that. Because if you look at the last hundred years, deaths in the USSR, Cambodia, China, and elsewhere probably far exceed deaths from religious fanatics.

I didn't say "religious fanatics" or "the last hundred years".

Bad people kill people. Sometimes those bad people are atheist. Usually though, they are religious.

We heard you the 3 times you have made the same statement on this thread with nothing to back it up. I am sure you will state it 4 times, go ahead.

Repeating something doesn’t make it true.

I'm repeating it because it's true. Most people who kill other people are religious.

If you want to look at the 20th century, "communists" are just a fraction of total killings. Go back farther and the % just drops further.


Most people who kill others (or really commit any crimes) are religious.

Do you have a source for that claim? If not, I am going to say you are making it up. You have no statistics from a reputable source, just very vague and general claims and zero details.

You have a link that shows how religious people commit more crimes than other people?

The vast majority of people killing others in the non-communism bubbles above are religious. ??

DP. Yeah, WWI and WWII weren't religious. Gun violence in the US isn't religious (except for a handful of fanatics).

Atheist pp is pulling stuff out of her butt, which is sad to watch.

Huh? I'm not talking about fanatics. I'm talking generally about people who kill others. Most of them are religious. Atheists only make up a small % of people. Certainly in WWI and WWII most of the people killing others (and more importantly those driving the killing) were religious.

So you are citing WWII as your source?
Those numbers are included in the stats on the infographic under Nazi Germany and fascism. Communism-atheism still killed more.

Every bubble that isn't communism counts toward killers who aren't atheists. You can take 10% off of those to account for other atheists.

It’s not individual killers, it’s their ideology.

Only a few countries had and have state mandated atheism- but those countries killed 100 million of their own citizens.

Democracy is on the infographic-it’s accounted for.

I'm talking about individual killers, not ideologies.

Most killers are religious. Apparently believing in the supernatural doesn't stop people from killing others.

Oh look, another unsupported factoid. Cite please?

[Anonymous]

My only conclusion is that fanatics have killed a lot more people than non-fanatics. A fanatic is “a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal, especially for an extreme religious or political cause.”

Think that catches religious nuts and Communist ideologues.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think the atheists on this forum are campaigning for communism or state-mandated atheism.

And it is 81 percent now who believe in God. I bet it will be below 75 percent by 2030 and below 50 percent by 2050.

Religion can’t stand up to scrutiny and the fact is that more and more people are questioning its shibboleths, and with the internet people can come across different perspectives more easily than in the past.