Recruited athletes don’t have lower stats!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, the one girl I know that got recruited to go to harvard had perfect grades and a perfect 1600 on her SAT. And the not-so-studious kids on my team who had mediocre grades, went to mediocre colleges too.

Good for her. She’s one in a million or more. I know a UPenn recruit with SAT under 900 and a Georgetown recruit also under 900. I also know a UPenn recruit with SAT of 1500 and she’s the highest score on the team. Our school is getting pressure to move away from athletic recruits because they are slowing down the classes.[b]

I’ll take things that didn’t happen for $200.

Maybe some pointed headed alumni are saying this at the country club, but it’s not a movement. The fraction of recruited athletes who would truly “slow a class down” is minuscule. Yes, they may get an admissions boost over a similarly or even somewhat better academic-credentialed applicant, but that isn’t the same thing as being a drag on the class.

First, colleges administer placement tests to make sure people are placed in the right math, for example. Or they use AP scores for some subjects. So the gunner kid who took multivariate in HS will not be in freshman precalc with the “meathead” athletes. Nor remedial composition. Many, many elite colleges have such courses.

+1

My experience as a D1 scholarship athlete at Duke is that take away football and the heavily recruited handful of male basketball players, and the gaps for athletes are fairly small. Anecdotally, I was in the top 25 percent of admitted students and did not need to go on a list - a fact that the freshman dean pounded home to me every two weeks. My teammates had great outcomes for grad schools and professions so the gaps in practice are small. My team today has a team wide gpa of 3.6 with plenty of STEM majors. I am proud of them - their GPA is higher than the student average. Football creates all sorts of challenges but it also pays for everything (even if the team is mediocre - the conference revenue is quite a haul). And even football players could be good students. I took an honors calc class with a 4th class using IBM punch cards. My punch card mutilator partner was a future NFL wide receiver and an African American from Notth Carolina. He was the best student in the class, if you discount the help a kind woman from Baltimore gave us in learning not to crease the cards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DS did not get through a pre-read at a top ten SLAC. We weren't surprised at all. My DS was not targeting this school at all because he didn't have the rigor or grades. My DS is not a "dumb jock" but he's also not a A+ 1500 SAT student. He had an A- in high school and a 1300 SAT. The coach at this SLAC reached out to my DS after he saw him at a showcase. My DH and I talked to the coach and the first thing we asked him was "have you seen his grades?" He assured us he had pull and felt confident he could get our DS through admissions. DS sent in his transcript for the pre-read and as we expected, admissions said no. So for this particular school and sport, recruited athletes don't have lower stats.

Wrong conclusion. The college admitted more qualified, lesser qualified athletes. I have seen this play out 100x as a youth coach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, the one girl I know that got recruited to go to harvard had perfect grades and a perfect 1600 on her SAT. And the not-so-studious kids on my team who had mediocre grades, went to mediocre colleges too.

Good for her. She’s one in a million or more. I know a UPenn recruit with SAT under 900 and a Georgetown recruit also under 900. I also know a UPenn recruit with SAT of 1500 and she’s the highest score on the team. Our school is getting pressure to move away from athletic recruits because they are slowing down the classes.[b]

I’ll take things that didn’t happen for $200.

Maybe some pointed headed alumni are saying this at the country club, but it’s not a movement. The fraction of recruited athletes who would truly “slow a class down” is minuscule. Yes, they may get an admissions boost over a similarly or even somewhat better academic-credentialed applicant, but that isn’t the same thing as being a drag on the class.

First, colleges administer placement tests to make sure people are placed in the right math, for example. Or they use AP scores for some subjects. So the gunner kid who took multivariate in HS will not be in freshman precalc with the “meathead” athletes. Nor remedial composition. Many, many elite colleges have such courses.

+1

My experience as a D1 scholarship athlete at Duke is that take away football and the heavily recruited handful of male basketball players, and the gaps for athletes are fairly small. Anecdotally, I was in the top 25 percent of admitted students and did not need to go on a list - a fact that the freshman dean pounded home to me every two weeks. My teammates had great outcomes for grad schools and professions so the gaps in practice are small. My team today has a team wide gpa of 3.6 with plenty of STEM majors. I am proud of them - their GPA is higher than the student average. Football creates all sorts of challenges but it also pays for everything (even if the team is mediocre - the conference revenue is quite a haul). And even football players could be good students. I took an honors calc class with a 4th class using IBM punch cards. My punch card mutilator partner was a future NFL wide receiver and an African American from Notth Carolina. He was the best student in the class, if you discount the help a kind woman from Baltimore gave us in learning not to crease the cards.

Did you literally attend college in the 60s…maybe 70s? IBM punch cards?

[Anonymous]

Tell me you know nothing about college sports without telling me you know nothing about college sports.

Across all levels, the transition from high school to college typically runs at about 10% participation rate. So that means approximately 90% of students that participated in youth and high school sports decide either they can't or won't compete collegiately. I ask you, is the top 10% the "top of your sport"?

There are tiers of athletic ability within D1, D2, D3, NAIA, and inter-collegiate club. Depending on the sport, top D3 teams can easily compete with / beat, mid and upper tier D1 programs. Not talking about an SEC power house football team against a D3 football team. But there are lacrosse players, soccer players, swimmers, tennis players, field hockey players, basketball players, etc., that turn down D1 offers to play at a D2 or D3 (or other) school because of a holistic better fit.

The athletic hook is powerful. Without a doubt. Own it. Love it. But don't discount the athlete's academic credentials either.

You actually don’t know much about college sports…kind of laughable you would write this diatribe.

If you were to mix D3 teams and D1 teams in a tournament setting, you would be lucky to have a D3 team win one game. There are more kids that would rather play club sports at Power 5 schools than would play D3 sports.

BTW, the fact you referenced D2 schools in your answer proves you know little. Go look at the list of D2 schools…if you have heard of 5 of them you would be lucky. Nobody turns down a D1 offer to play D2 sports. 98%+ of D3 athletes receive no interest from D1 programs.

Written by someone who can't imagine why an outstanding athlete might want to attend MIT, Johns Hopkins, U Chicago, Pomona or Amherst and still play their sport, even use it to help them get in, rather than attend a potentially lesser Div 1 school just so they can say they played D1 sports. D1 athletes routinely also have restrictions on what they can major in, can't do internships or study abroad, and lots of other issues that a really smart kid might find unappealing. Not all D1 sports programs are elite, and not all D3 sports programs are filled with athletes who had no interest from or in D1 schools as you suggest. Plenty of athletes make a decision to prioritize differently than you and your family might.

My student is a D1 athlete at a "lesser" school with a 1550 SAT and a 4.0 unweighted GPA. He's not dumb. He wanted to go to a top school, wanted to be a collegiate athlete, and also needed merit aid. Heavily recruited by D3 schools with significant merit aid, but he was an arguably better athlete than others on the team. He didn't even consider or apply to Ivies because he needed that merit aid. It was a difficult decision. Ultimately, it came down to two top 10 SLACs with less competitive athletics, or a top 50 university with stronger athletics and a great program for his intended major. He spent years training, is at a very high level for his sport, and wanted to compete at a D1 level. So he chose the top 50 school, where he's in a highly selective honors program and (so far) balancing an intense academic course load and D1 student-athlete requirements. He's full ride at his school, a D1 athlete, and in a top program for his major. As PP said, lots of athletes prioritize differently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even IF they had lower stats I guess you've got to give them credit for so many hours of practice while maintaining their academics

No I give them no credit.

You crack me up. I played D1 back in the day and practiced 60 plus hours a week. I made zero money.

My kid has already made $650 k plus with NIL deals. Wow, just wow. So a sophomore in college is making 6 figures a year and he is dumb because he plays sports? His commitment to his sport over his lifetime (while just a dozen years) is paying dividends. This was his dream, not mine.

[Anonymous]

NP. I have to salute you, OP, for your excellent triggering of DCUMs slavering obsessed anti-athlete posters. Good entertainment here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even IF they had lower stats I guess you've got to give them credit for so many hours of practice while maintaining their academics

No I give them no credit.

You crack me up. I played D1 back in the day and practiced 60 plus hours a week. I made zero money.

My kid has already made $650 k plus with NIL deals. Wow, just wow. So a sophomore in college is making 6 figures a year and he is dumb because he plays sports? His commitment to his sport over his lifetime (while just a dozen years) is paying dividends. This was his dream, not mine.

Still give him no credit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. I have to salute you, OP, for your excellent triggering of DCUMs slavering obsessed anti-athlete posters. Good entertainment here.

The nerds whose kids got cut from the HS team or whose kids never got recruited will never stop feeling butthurt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I have to salute you, OP, for your excellent triggering of DCUMs slavering obsessed anti-athlete posters. Good entertainment here.

The nerds whose kids got cut from the HS team or whose kids never got recruited will never stop feeling butthurt.

With sophisticated banter like this, you expect us to believe you and your kids aren’t swimming in the shallow end of the pool? You’re just making our point for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Tell me you know nothing about college sports without telling me you know nothing about college sports.

Across all levels, the transition from high school to college typically runs at about 10% participation rate. So that means approximately 90% of students that participated in youth and high school sports decide either they can't or won't compete collegiately. I ask you, is the top 10% the "top of your sport"?

There are tiers of athletic ability within D1, D2, D3, NAIA, and inter-collegiate club. Depending on the sport, top D3 teams can easily compete with / beat, mid and upper tier D1 programs. Not talking about an SEC power house football team against a D3 football team. But there are lacrosse players, soccer players, swimmers, tennis players, field hockey players, basketball players, etc., that turn down D1 offers to play at a D2 or D3 (or other) school because of a holistic better fit.

The athletic hook is powerful. Without a doubt. Own it. Love it. But don't discount the athlete's academic credentials either.

You actually don’t know much about college sports…kind of laughable you would write this diatribe.

If you were to mix D3 teams and D1 teams in a tournament setting, you would be lucky to have a D3 team win one game. There are more kids that would rather play club sports at Power 5 schools than would play D3 sports.

BTW, the fact you referenced D2 schools in your answer proves you know little. Go look at the list of D2 schools…if you have heard of 5 of them you would be lucky. Nobody turns down a D1 offer to play D2 sports. 98%+ of D3 athletes receive no interest from D1 programs.

Written by someone who can't imagine why an outstanding athlete might want to attend MIT, Johns Hopkins, U Chicago, Pomona or Amherst and still play their sport, even use it to help them get in, rather than attend a potentially lesser Div 1 school just so they can say they played D1 sports. D1 athletes routinely also have restrictions on what they can major in, can't do internships or study abroad, and lots of other issues that a really smart kid might find unappealing. Not all D1 sports programs are elite, and not all D3 sports programs are filled with athletes who had no interest from or in D1 schools as you suggest. Plenty of athletes make a decision to prioritize differently than you and your family might.

My student is a D1 athlete at a "lesser" school with a 1550 SAT and a 4.0 unweighted GPA. He's not dumb. He wanted to go to a top school, wanted to be a collegiate athlete, and also needed merit aid. Heavily recruited by D3 schools with significant merit aid, but he was an arguably better athlete than others on the team. He didn't even consider or apply to Ivies because he needed that merit aid. It was a difficult decision. Ultimately, it came down to two top 10 SLACs with less competitive athletics, or a top 50 university with stronger athletics and a great program for his intended major. He spent years training, is at a very high level for his sport, and wanted to compete at a D1 level. So he chose the top 50 school, where he's in a highly selective honors program and (so far) balancing an intense academic course load and D1 student-athlete requirements. He's full ride at his school, a D1 athlete, and in a top program for his major. As PP said, lots of athletes prioritize differently.

A top 50 D1 school is not a “lesser” school. Sounds like the right mix between athletics and academics. Also, sounds like your kid would have settled for D3 basically kicking and screaming.

[Anonymous]

He is very very glad he made the decision to attend the D1 school, where he will get a great education and still be able to play sports at a highly competitive level. He'll never go pro, so this is it in terms of athletics and he's loving every minute of it.

[Anonymous]

Remember that at many elite schools the hardest thing is getting in. Just about everyone graduates, unlike at more "average" schools!
For many sports, D1s have great academic support too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DS is a D1 athlete at a T25. Yes, he had SAT score above the 75th percentile for that school and 4 plus gpa with 10 AP’s. Happened to be a stellar athlete to boot. Same for another kid whose stats and rigor I know on his team. It’s incredibly difficult handling academics and 40hours of sport/travel a week, so having a solid academic base/study habits/intellect is essential.

That’s very odd your D1 athlete even took the SATs. My son knew he was playing somewhere on September 1 of his junior year. Any kid capable of D1 knows early that they are playing . Why bother with SATs? After sept 2 it was just a matter of where he was going to choose and who has the best package. My son did graduate with a 4.4, but that’s just his work ethic. It was pretty apparent by 10th grade justice into college was going to be his sport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS is a D1 athlete at a T25. Yes, he had SAT score above the 75th percentile for that school and 4 plus gpa with 10 AP’s. Happened to be a stellar athlete to boot. Same for another kid whose stats and rigor I know on his team. It’s incredibly difficult handling academics and 40hours of sport/travel a week, so having a solid academic base/study habits/intellect is essential.

That’s very odd your D1 athlete even took the SATs. My son knew he was playing somewhere on September 1 of his junior year. Any kid capable of D1 knows early that they are playing . Why bother with SATs? After sept 2 it was just a matter of where he was going to choose and who has the best package. My son did graduate with a 4.4, but that’s just his work ethic. It was pretty apparent by 10th grade justice into college was going to be his sport.

Depends on the sport. My Senior is being recruited just now. Only 1 of the 7 spots for 2024 have been committed at two of the schools. Most of the coaches have said they are still working on the 2024 class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS is a D1 athlete at a T25. Yes, he had SAT score above the 75th percentile for that school and 4 plus gpa with 10 AP’s. Happened to be a stellar athlete to boot. Same for another kid whose stats and rigor I know on his team. It’s incredibly difficult handling academics and 40hours of sport/travel a week, so having a solid academic base/study habits/intellect is essential.

That’s very odd your D1 athlete even took the SATs. My son knew he was playing somewhere on September 1 of his junior year. Any kid capable of D1 knows early that they are playing . Why bother with SATs? After sept 2 it was just a matter of where he was going to choose and who has the best package. My son did graduate with a 4.4, but that’s just his work ethic. It was pretty apparent by 10th grade justice into college was going to be his sport.

Depends on the sport. My Senior is being recruited just now. Only 1 of the 7 spots for 2024 have been committed at two of the schools. Most of the coaches have said they are still working on the 2024 class.

Oh- and my son had straight As at a tough school and scored a 35 ACT on the first try. Scored 5s on all of his AP exams too.