Spanish Immersion Community Table Session

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When has APS ever located an option program so that it is convenient? Is that really a consideration? I am confused. I didn’t see that as a consideration with HB Woodlawn or ATS or any other program. If it is a consideration, then that implies that the option programs are FOR a specific portion of the county. Can you imagine if HB, previously located off fancy Lorcom, said we have to stay in the affluent part of the county because our constituency is rich? That is asinine. These are option programs. They go where there is space. Period. If they aren’t supportable, then we should all move on. There are real kids with real needs and we don’t have the luxury of supporting programs if there aren’t people willing to travel wherever in Arlington their preferred option is located.

You must not pay a lot of attention. Having county-wide programs be centrally located was discussed when they moved ATS, Key and HB. It has always been a consideration. It's not the only consideration, but it's always considered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This all feels like another sign the immersion program isn't going to make it.

We turned down our neighborhood school and another lottery school at the start of K because we thought immersion was the way to go for our family. I have been second guessing myself for awhile.

I don't get why people think this. The county and the schools in the past few years has been making huge strides to improve the immersion program. They got a new spanish curriculum, they moved to an 80/20 model, they started outreach to hispanic neighborhoods, they created a task force which made a number of recommendations that the county then adopted. They created new Spanish assessments to better evaluate where kids are. Basically, they have done a million things to support the program lately. They are now moving it out of an overcrowded school to a school with a higher hispanic population and new facilities. WHY is that a sign that the program is not going to make it?

This makes me so mad. The resource spent trying to “save” a tiny program that benefits a few students when APS is failing county-wide on languages. They cut back so kids can’t even take languages until 7th grade, and everyone knows the later you start the less likely it will stick. It’s maddening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When has APS ever located an option program so that it is convenient? Is that really a consideration? I am confused. I didn’t see that as a consideration with HB Woodlawn or ATS or any other program. If it is a consideration, then that implies that the option programs are FOR a specific portion of the county. Can you imagine if HB, previously located off fancy Lorcom, said we have to stay in the affluent part of the county because our constituency is rich? That is asinine. These are option programs. They go where there is space. Period. If they aren’t supportable, then we should all move on. There are real kids with real needs and we don’t have the luxury of supporting programs if there aren’t people willing to travel wherever in Arlington their preferred option is located.

You must not pay a lot of attention. Having county-wide programs be centrally located was discussed when they moved ATS, Key and HB. It has always been a consideration. It's not the only consideration, but it's always considered.

Okay, fine, you can “consider” just about anything, true. But the question is do we place option programs near particular populations? That seems problematic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This all feels like another sign the immersion program isn't going to make it.

We turned down our neighborhood school and another lottery school at the start of K because we thought immersion was the way to go for our family. I have been second guessing myself for awhile.

I don't get why people think this. The county and the schools in the past few years has been making huge strides to improve the immersion program. They got a new spanish curriculum, they moved to an 80/20 model, they started outreach to hispanic neighborhoods, they created a task force which made a number of recommendations that the county then adopted. They created new Spanish assessments to better evaluate where kids are. Basically, they have done a million things to support the program lately. They are now moving it out of an overcrowded school to a school with a higher hispanic population and new facilities. WHY is that a sign that the program is not going to make it?

This makes me so mad. The resource spent trying to “save” a tiny program that benefits a few students when APS is failing county-wide on languages. They cut back so kids can’t even take languages until 7th grade, and everyone knows the later you start the less likely it will stick. It’s maddening.

I mean I do wish they had kept the program but a once a week 30-minute program wasn't helping anyone learn a language. But I wish that APS would support dual language learning from the elementary level at all schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This all feels like another sign the immersion program isn't going to make it.

We turned down our neighborhood school and another lottery school at the start of K because we thought immersion was the way to go for our family. I have been second guessing myself for awhile.

I don't get why people think this. The county and the schools in the past few years has been making huge strides to improve the immersion program. They got a new spanish curriculum, they moved to an 80/20 model, they started outreach to hispanic neighborhoods, they created a task force which made a number of recommendations that the county then adopted. They created new Spanish assessments to better evaluate where kids are. Basically, they have done a million things to support the program lately. They are now moving it out of an overcrowded school to a school with a higher hispanic population and new facilities. WHY is that a sign that the program is not going to make it?

This makes me so mad. The resource spent trying to “save” a tiny program that benefits a few students when APS is failing county-wide on languages. They cut back so kids can’t even take languages until 7th grade, and everyone knows the later you start the less likely it will stick. It’s maddening.

I mean I do wish they had kept the program but a once a week 30-minute program wasn't helping anyone learn a language. But I wish that APS would support dual language learning from the elementary level at all schools.

I agree, wouldn’t it be nice? Along with no trailers. And class sizes under 38 kids. And persistent qualified individualized teaching for under performers. And an IB program open to any child in the County. Etc. My wish list is quite long too. I recognize the reality of limited resources and dual language for everyone—particularly where it has spectacularly failed—is a complete pipe dream.

I think it is criminal to spend so much $ and time on an option program that isn’t supported. Move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This all feels like another sign the immersion program isn't going to make it.

We turned down our neighborhood school and another lottery school at the start of K because we thought immersion was the way to go for our family. I have been second guessing myself for awhile.

I don't get why people think this. The county and the schools in the past few years has been making huge strides to improve the immersion program. They got a new spanish curriculum, they moved to an 80/20 model, they started outreach to hispanic neighborhoods, they created a task force which made a number of recommendations that the county then adopted. They created new Spanish assessments to better evaluate where kids are. Basically, they have done a million things to support the program lately. They are now moving it out of an overcrowded school to a school with a higher hispanic population and new facilities. WHY is that a sign that the program is not going to make it?

This makes me so mad. The resource spent trying to “save” a tiny program that benefits a few students when APS is failing county-wide on languages. They cut back so kids can’t even take languages until 7th grade, and everyone knows the later you start the less likely it will stick. It’s maddening.

I mean I do wish they had kept the program but a once a week 30-minute program wasn't helping anyone learn a language. But I wish that APS would support dual language learning from the elementary level at all schools.

I agree, wouldn’t it be nice? Along with no trailers. And class sizes under 38 kids. And persistent qualified individualized teaching for under performers. And an IB program open to any child in the County. Etc. My wish list is quite long too. I recognize the reality of limited resources and dual language for everyone—particularly where it has spectacularly failed—is a complete pipe dream.

I think it is criminal to spend so much $ and time on an option program that isn’t supported. Move on.

I'm confused. How is APS spending more money on the immersion program? Those kids would still need APS teachers, principals, school buildings, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard that someone on school board actually started paying attention and that moving Spanish immersion to the HIGHEST percentage, majority Hispanic school (45%), looked a LOT like segregation from the 50s, and would create a school with probably 60% Hispanic student population.

Unclear if it would have affected FARMS ratios — does Immersion run more low income that county average?

It’s one thing to locate near a substantial Spanish speaking population. This goes WAY beyond that and possibly opens up doorway to lawsuits?

So are they just not going to move any of the middle school boundaries this year?

They either have to do a boundary change or move Immersion elsewhere. Or both.

I can't imagine where they'd move Immersion if it's not Kenmore. Transportation-wise, it would make no sense to move it up to Williamsburg.

It would take the same number of buses as Gunston. Read the report!

The same number of buses, but they would have much longer routes. It's not like the neighborhoods around Williamsburg are sending a ton of kids to immersion.

I really don’t think short bus rides for option programs are the priority, or should be.

We live 4.5 miles from our immersiom school. It takes my kids’ bus 30 minutes to get to school. I’d hardly call that short. We’re not even the first stop which means the kids getting on the bus before my kids have a longer ride. Now apply that timeline to going all the way to Williamsburg. Williamsburg is 20 miles from Gunston. Than remember that is just one way.

Immersion have fewer stops than neighborhood schools (hub stops) so the 3 miles for a neighborhood route would take about as much time

Don’t play up the Gunston WMS distance. Gunston is LITERALLY on the edge of the county with Alexandria, so EVERY student will be closer to WMS than Gunston.

Um. What? I can walk to Gunston. Williamsburg is 6.2 miles away. You know people live over here right?

You know this isn't all about you, right? There are kids in this program from all over the county, including some who could walk to WMS or who would have a shorter bus ride or equal bus ride to WMS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard that someone on school board actually started paying attention and that moving Spanish immersion to the HIGHEST percentage, majority Hispanic school (45%), looked a LOT like segregation from the 50s, and would create a school with probably 60% Hispanic student population.

Unclear if it would have affected FARMS ratios — does Immersion run more low income that county average?

It’s one thing to locate near a substantial Spanish speaking population. This goes WAY beyond that and possibly opens up doorway to lawsuits?

So are they just not going to move any of the middle school boundaries this year?

They either have to do a boundary change or move Immersion elsewhere. Or both.

I can't imagine where they'd move Immersion if it's not Kenmore. Transportation-wise, it would make no sense to move it up to Williamsburg.

It would take the same number of buses as Gunston. Read the report!

The same number of buses, but they would have much longer routes. It's not like the neighborhoods around Williamsburg are sending a ton of kids to immersion.

I really don’t think short bus rides for option programs are the priority, or should be.

We live 4.5 miles from our immersiom school. It takes my kids’ bus 30 minutes to get to school. I’d hardly call that short. We’re not even the first stop which means the kids getting on the bus before my kids have a longer ride. Now apply that timeline to going all the way to Williamsburg. Williamsburg is 20 miles from Gunston. Than remember that is just one way.

Immersion have fewer stops than neighborhood schools (hub stops) so the 3 miles for a neighborhood route would take about as much time

Don’t play up the Gunston WMS distance. Gunston is LITERALLY on the edge of the county with Alexandria, so EVERY student will be closer to WMS than Gunston.

Um. What? I can walk to Gunston. Williamsburg is 6.2 miles away. You know people live over here right?

You know this isn't all about you, right? There are kids in this program from all over the county, including some who could walk to WMS or who would have a shorter bus ride or equal bus ride to WMS.

Uh. Where did I say it was about me. The previous poster said that EVERY student is closer to WMS. But that isn't true?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This all feels like another sign the immersion program isn't going to make it.

We turned down our neighborhood school and another lottery school at the start of K because we thought immersion was the way to go for our family. I have been second guessing myself for awhile.

I don't get why people think this. The county and the schools in the past few years has been making huge strides to improve the immersion program. They got a new spanish curriculum, they moved to an 80/20 model, they started outreach to hispanic neighborhoods, they created a task force which made a number of recommendations that the county then adopted. They created new Spanish assessments to better evaluate where kids are. Basically, they have done a million things to support the program lately. They are now moving it out of an overcrowded school to a school with a higher hispanic population and new facilities. WHY is that a sign that the program is not going to make it?

This makes me so mad. The resource spent trying to “save” a tiny program that benefits a few students when APS is failing county-wide on languages. They cut back so kids can’t even take languages until 7th grade, and everyone knows the later you start the less likely it will stick. It’s maddening.

I mean I do wish they had kept the program but a once a week 30-minute program wasn't helping anyone learn a language. But I wish that APS would support dual language learning from the elementary level at all schools.

I agree, wouldn’t it be nice? Along with no trailers. And class sizes under 38 kids. And persistent qualified individualized teaching for under performers. And an IB program open to any child in the County. Etc. My wish list is quite long too. I recognize the reality of limited resources and dual language for everyone—particularly where it has spectacularly failed—is a complete pipe dream.

I think it is criminal to spend so much $ and time on an option program that isn’t supported. Move on.

I'm confused. How is APS spending more money on the immersion program? Those kids would still need APS teachers, principals, school buildings, etc.

They are probably mad because there was a task force (volunteers) and the county bought a curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This all feels like another sign the immersion program isn't going to make it.

We turned down our neighborhood school and another lottery school at the start of K because we thought immersion was the way to go for our family. I have been second guessing myself for awhile.

I don't get why people think this. The county and the schools in the past few years has been making huge strides to improve the immersion program. They got a new spanish curriculum, they moved to an 80/20 model, they started outreach to hispanic neighborhoods, they created a task force which made a number of recommendations that the county then adopted. They created new Spanish assessments to better evaluate where kids are. Basically, they have done a million things to support the program lately. They are now moving it out of an overcrowded school to a school with a higher hispanic population and new facilities. WHY is that a sign that the program is not going to make it?

This makes me so mad. The resource spent trying to “save” a tiny program that benefits a few students when APS is failing county-wide on languages. They cut back so kids can’t even take languages until 7th grade, and everyone knows the later you start the less likely it will stick. It’s maddening.

I mean I do wish they had kept the program but a once a week 30-minute program wasn't helping anyone learn a language. But I wish that APS would support dual language learning from the elementary level at all schools.

I agree, wouldn’t it be nice? Along with no trailers. And class sizes under 38 kids. And persistent qualified individualized teaching for under performers. And an IB program open to any child in the County. Etc. My wish list is quite long too. I recognize the reality of limited resources and dual language for everyone—particularly where it has spectacularly failed—is a complete pipe dream.

I think it is criminal to spend so much $ and time on an option program that isn’t supported. Move on.

1200 or so kids are in the immersion program in ES and there is a wait list. Then over 300 in MS. I don't know in HS. BUT not sure why you would sat it's not supported. The program is at capacity limits currently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This all feels like another sign the immersion program isn't going to make it.

We turned down our neighborhood school and another lottery school at the start of K because we thought immersion was the way to go for our family. I have been second guessing myself for awhile.

I don't get why people think this. The county and the schools in the past few years has been making huge strides to improve the immersion program. They got a new spanish curriculum, they moved to an 80/20 model, they started outreach to hispanic neighborhoods, they created a task force which made a number of recommendations that the county then adopted. They created new Spanish assessments to better evaluate where kids are. Basically, they have done a million things to support the program lately. They are now moving it out of an overcrowded school to a school with a higher hispanic population and new facilities. WHY is that a sign that the program is not going to make it?

This makes me so mad. The resource spent trying to “save” a tiny program that benefits a few students when APS is failing county-wide on languages. They cut back so kids can’t even take languages until 7th grade, and everyone knows the later you start the less likely it will stick. It’s maddening.

I mean I do wish they had kept the program but a once a week 30-minute program wasn't helping anyone learn a language. But I wish that APS would support dual language learning from the elementary level at all schools.

I agree, wouldn’t it be nice? Along with no trailers. And class sizes under 38 kids. And persistent qualified individualized teaching for under performers. And an IB program open to any child in the County. Etc. My wish list is quite long too. I recognize the reality of limited resources and dual language for everyone—particularly where it has spectacularly failed—is a complete pipe dream.

I think it is criminal to spend so much $ and time on an option program that isn’t supported. Move on.

1200 or so kids are in the immersion program in ES and there is a wait list. Then over 300 in MS. I don't know in HS. BUT not sure why you would sat it's not supported. The program is at capacity limits currently.

Not sure what PP is talking about, clearly there’s a demand especially at the ES level. That said, considerations for convenience of 300 students should be weighed against what is convenient and best for the other multiple thousands of students. Kids in option programs and schools (one of my kids among them) are in an optional program, and have choices. Families and students must weigh those choices when considering applications and acceptances. But students and families in neighborhood schools do not have the same luxury. If you make life more difficult for families who haven’t made any sort of choice, is that right? If you make a neighborhood school more segregated, by design, is that right? If you split up more neighborhoods and ES feeders, is that right? These are questions for the broader community to answer, not some select group of a few dozen families at the option schools/programs in question to decide and then have APS announce over the summer and ram through this fall. I can’t believe I’m actually having to spell this out. It’s wrong on just about every level. The idea that any school within APS isn’t appropriate for Spanish Immersion is wrong on its face. The idea that any school couldn’t change to accommodate Spanish speaking students and families is just wrong, wrong, wrong and should not even be a factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This all feels like another sign the immersion program isn't going to make it.

We turned down our neighborhood school and another lottery school at the start of K because we thought immersion was the way to go for our family. I have been second guessing myself for awhile.

I don't get why people think this. The county and the schools in the past few years has been making huge strides to improve the immersion program. They got a new spanish curriculum, they moved to an 80/20 model, they started outreach to hispanic neighborhoods, they created a task force which made a number of recommendations that the county then adopted. They created new Spanish assessments to better evaluate where kids are. Basically, they have done a million things to support the program lately. They are now moving it out of an overcrowded school to a school with a higher hispanic population and new facilities. WHY is that a sign that the program is not going to make it?

This makes me so mad. The resource spent trying to “save” a tiny program that benefits a few students when APS is failing county-wide on languages. They cut back so kids can’t even take languages until 7th grade, and everyone knows the later you start the less likely it will stick. It’s maddening.

I mean I do wish they had kept the program but a once a week 30-minute program wasn't helping anyone learn a language. But I wish that APS would support dual language learning from the elementary level at all schools.

I agree, wouldn’t it be nice? Along with no trailers. And class sizes under 38 kids. And persistent qualified individualized teaching for under performers. And an IB program open to any child in the County. Etc. My wish list is quite long too. I recognize the reality of limited resources and dual language for everyone—particularly where it has spectacularly failed—is a complete pipe dream.

I think it is criminal to spend so much $ and time on an option program that isn’t supported. Move on.

1200 or so kids are in the immersion program in ES and there is a wait list. Then over 300 in MS. I don't know in HS. BUT not sure why you would sat it's not supported. The program is at capacity limits currently.

Not sure what PP is talking about, clearly there’s a demand especially at the ES level. That said, considerations for convenience of 300 students should be weighed against what is convenient and best for the other multiple thousands of students. Kids in option programs and schools (one of my kids among them) are in an optional program, and have choices. Families and students must weigh those choices when considering applications and acceptances. But students and families in neighborhood schools do not have the same luxury. If you make life more difficult for families who haven’t made any sort of choice, is that right? If you make a neighborhood school more segregated, by design, is that right? If you split up more neighborhoods and ES feeders, is that right? These are questions for the broader community to answer, not some select group of a few dozen families at the option schools/programs in question to decide and then have APS announce over the summer and ram through this fall. I can’t believe I’m actually having to spell this out. It’s wrong on just about every level. The idea that any school within APS isn’t appropriate for Spanish Immersion is wrong on its face. The idea that any school couldn’t change to accommodate Spanish speaking students and families is just wrong, wrong, wrong and should not even be a factor.

You realize, right, that the immersion community hasn't asked to move its MS? This is being driven by APS and the needs for more capacity at Gunston as a neighborhood school. If other MS kids are being moved, it's because of population growth in S Arlington and not because of the immersion program.

(If the trigger was just the move of Immersion to Kenmore, those displaced kids would just swap to Gunston and N Arlington wouldn't see any changes. But it's not. APS needs to move kids north to accommodate population grown in S Arlington.)

Thus far the only thing I've heard from the immersion community is that the program should be located near a Hispanic community in Arlington to ensure that there are enough native Spanish speakers to keep the program viable. APS said Gunston is overly full, TJ already has IB, and Swanson is full. That leaves Kenmore.

The immersion task force didn't weigh in on where to draw boundary lines or how to move around students between other neighborhood middle schools. That's not up to the immersion community at all. Take that up with APS. Ditto with the timing of the rollout and process. That's all APS too. The immersion community is along for the ride just. like. you.

[Anonymous]

So much irrational anger towers the immersion program. Boundaries are shifting because of population growth in S Arlington, not because of immersion. The program hasn't changed in size. Student shifts are not because of the immersion program. APS needs to move students north.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did WMS come up as an option from APS or someone on here? I'm trying to follow all this so I know what the heck is going on. Ha-Ha.

No. As far as I can tell, it's only being discussed by families who go to Hamm and don't want to be moved to WMS. They are very loud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So much irrational anger towers the immersion program. Boundaries are shifting because of population growth in S Arlington, not because of immersion. The program hasn't changed in size. Student shifts are not because of the immersion program. APS needs to move students north.

If only there was a group of about 300 students that you could move from Gunston to Williamsburg without impacting all of the other boundaries...