Unhooked kids - Why is private HS worth the diminished chances for top college admissions?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:We do it for the 13 years of consistent education, the experience and connections made during those years and the community. Our public is too big, too anonymous, too many behavior problems and checked out parents. This is a gift to our children. The best education we could provide them and the environment to support a better childhood. I'm saying the quiet part out loud here- people are buying a prettier, calmer, more focused experience. It's not about college at all

If you could have a kid who is happy, well mannered, good stats..etc. in a public, would you still go with private? I am curious about "it's not about college at all" comment.

I am not the poster you are replying to but I will offer my experience. We had that situation with our older son and did not go private. He thrived in public school - loves the noise and hustle. Loved having large groups of friends who all lived within a reasonable distance from school and had a very active social life. High stats, good relationships with several teachers, very involved in EC and now at a highly selective NESCAC where he tutors many kids from well-known privates as a tutor for his college's resource center. Our other son wanted a smaller environment and less noise and stimuli. He likes his school and his teachers and we think it has been worth the money. He missed having friends close by and that has created some challenges in his social life (which I believe is a very important part of well-being and development). Each kids is different so generalizations don't help much, in my opinion. And for those posters saying that if you haven't experienced an independent school, they shouldn't be commenting here, the same could be said for those same people commenting on the public school experience. I've had the experience with both and I can say that both experiences can be good. When I went to college, the kids that I saw go crazy and flounder were the private school kids. My college-aged son says the same. My friends who are professors and deans at various colleges love public school students - they have learned to navigate heterogenous groups, deal with large classes, are more adaptable, keep themselves on track, etc. Yes, there is some generalizing here but it is their experience shared with me. It doesn't mean private school is bad at all just that it isn't a panacea or a guarantee of a good school experience. I live 2 blocks from our neighborhood elementary school and have three friends who teach there. Trust me, there is plenty of joy there. I hear the kids outside throughout the day, I know what my friends are doing in the classroom, I see all the families gather outside on the playground after school for hours playing and talking. People need to pick what is right for their family but don't bash others for their choice (if they even had one) and certainly don't diminish the hard work of public school students who do well in some challenging environments.

Stop the bashing of public school students while I go on about how dumb private schools kids are.

That isn't what I did - that's just what you took from it. As you can see what I wrote, i have a private school kid who is having a good experience and we think it is worth the money. You just chose to focus on the some of the experiences that I pointed out that addressed my point that a private school education isn't a panacea. I think this board frequently bashes public schools/students unfairly while deluding themselves that private schools are always better than public. If you can't see that point, that is your problem not mine.

I’m not PP, but I don’t think that’s accurate. There have been multiple threads over the past month or so on this forum about how crappy the college prospects are for private school kids, how private schools got rid of APs because their kids would do badly on the exams, etc.

No one says that's why private schools eliminated APs. Even at schools where the classes are gone, kids continue to do well on the exams.

I think private schools are getting rid of APs because public school APs diluted the brand.
I suspect private schools want to advance the idea that their course work is more rigorus and expansive than the public school offerings, which may or may not be true, depending on the school.

There are kids in public and kids in private who do well on AP tests. I actually think that AP test scores, more than HS grades or even the SAT/ACT, are a true reflection of a student's capacity to do well in college level courses.

Not sure about that. Yes, if a student struggles with an AP exam, they are probably not prepared for college level course work. But a top grade on an AP is no guarantee that the they will not be very challenged by college level work at a high level academic college

According to colleges and the College Board, a student who scores a 3 is prepared for college. And they are.

[Anonymous]

This whole thread is nonsense. Every kid has a different experience.

My kid definitely did better in college admissions coming from a private school compared to his friends who attend the local public. He got into top 20 first choice were kids with higher GPAs at the public school were denied. He also got into a top tier state flagship, which some other DCUM post cited as being “impossible” to get into from a public.

And I am sure there is some public school kid who got into a different school and feels they wouldn’t have received an acceptance if they had attended a private.

This is all anecdotal stuff that varies with each kid/specific story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have kids in middle school and are beginning to explore private high school options. Is it really true that kids from private schools do worse in college acceptances than similar kids from public school? We are in a county that has subpar schools and do not see many great matriculations from our high school. I can't imagine doing worse.

Since your child is in middle school, IMHO you should take stock of the child you have today and make your high school choice based on what you believe will be the best high school environment for them to grow into the 18-year-old you hope for them to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid definitely did better in college admissions coming from a private school compared to his friends who attend the local public. He got into top 20 first choice were kids with higher GPAs at the public school were denied. He also got into a top tier state flagship, which some other DCUM post cited as being “impossible” to get into from a public.

This is where the naysayers would swoop in and claim that your kid was admitted only due to hooks. Because that's the only way private school students ever get into top colleges!

[Anonymous]

This narrative about private school kids being at a disadvantage for college admissions has been getting spread far and wide in this area and I'd really like to see some nationwide data to prove this isn't just anecdotal, "how I feel" BS.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Where I come from you went to public if you were poor and/or blue collar and private if you were not. I am amazed at the number of people in the DMV who like public.

Where do you come from? I can tell you it wasn't the case at Great Falls and Langley High School in the 80s. Tons of loaded and powerful and influential people sent their kids to public school in NoVa. My friends had some very famous parents in political and other arenas.

Yeah the ones who love to go public largely don’t have any poor people in their neighborhoods so the public becomes a Beverly Hills High on 90210 type thing. Or Pacific Palisades.

Ha- great point... people can pat themselves on the back for "being public school parents".. all the while knowing no " free lunch kids" nor minorities are zoned for their school. My brother lives in the wealthiest neighborhood in Cincinnati -- Indian Hill. That public school remains small and looks like a private school. The only minorities are VIP kids of sports stars, doctors, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid definitely did better in college admissions coming from a private school compared to his friends who attend the local public. He got into top 20 first choice were kids with higher GPAs at the public school were denied. He also got into a top tier state flagship, which some other DCUM post cited as being “impossible” to get into from a public.

This is where the naysayers would swoop in and claim that your kid was admitted only due to hooks. Because that's the only way private school students ever get into top colleges!

He had no hooks. Not legacy, not athlete, or URM (although someone will say being a male is a hook, lol). His hook was being a private school kid with fairly high grades and test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Where I come from you went to public if you were poor and/or blue collar and private if you were not. I am amazed at the number of people in the DMV who like public.

Where do you come from? I can tell you it wasn't the case at Great Falls and Langley High School in the 80s. Tons of loaded and powerful and influential people sent their kids to public school in NoVa. My friends had some very famous parents in political and other arenas.

Yeah the ones who love to go public largely don’t have any poor people in their neighborhoods so the public becomes a Beverly Hills High on 90210 type thing. Or Pacific Palisades.

Ha- great point... people can pat themselves on the back for "being public school parents".. all the while knowing no " free lunch kids" nor minorities are zoned for their school. My brother lives in the wealthiest neighborhood in Cincinnati -- Indian Hill. That public school remains small and looks like a private school. The only minorities are VIP kids of sports stars, doctors, etc.

It’s like PS 41 in Greenwich Village. It’s “public,” but the PTA raises $500,000/year. Functionally it’s private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Where I come from you went to public if you were poor and/or blue collar and private if you were not. I am amazed at the number of people in the DMV who like public.

Where do you come from? I can tell you it wasn't the case at Great Falls and Langley High School in the 80s. Tons of loaded and powerful and influential people sent their kids to public school in NoVa. My friends had some very famous parents in political and other arenas.

Yeah the ones who love to go public largely don’t have any poor people in their neighborhoods so the public becomes a Beverly Hills High on 90210 type thing. Or Pacific Palisades.

Ha- great point... people can pat themselves on the back for "being public school parents".. all the while knowing no " free lunch kids" nor minorities are zoned for their school. My brother lives in the wealthiest neighborhood in Cincinnati -- Indian Hill. That public school remains small and looks like a private school. The only minorities are VIP kids of sports stars, doctors, etc.

It’s like PS 41 in Greenwich Village. It’s “public,” but the PTA raises $500,000/year. Functionally it’s private.

Yes! It would be interesting to have a list of these public schools that are effectively private because of their zoning and lack of free lunch students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harvard-Westlake in Los Angeles published its college matriculation information with all hooked people removed! I wish the local DMV schools would do this as well.

https://students.hw.com/Portals/44/completehandbook2023.pdf

Wow this is FASCINATING data.

[Anonymous]

Our goal is educating our children. The college to which they matriculate is not an objective for us. We found that MCPS basically stopped educating our kids around 5th grade, so we made a rational decision and reallocated our funds to schools that did a much better job. We drive 15 year old cars and did not upgrade to a tear-down McMansion. We've survived. There is no question that they would have floundered in the MCPS system, compared to what they've received at their privates. All things being equal, if you drop shipped them to BCC now, fully-formed, they might have a slight edge getting into an Ivy or something, but that's truly not the point. They'll go to great schools and excel there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All things being equal, if you drop shipped them to BCC now, fully-formed, they might have a slight edge getting into an Ivy or something, but that's truly not the point.

By my count BCC had 18 Ivy matriculations in 2022 according to Bethesda Magazine, a third of which were to Cornell. Two to Princeton, two to Yale, rest to Penn/Columbia/Brown/Dartmouth. I don't know if that really constitutes an "edge." Your broader point is right though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All things being equal, if you drop shipped them to BCC now, fully-formed, they might have a slight edge getting into an Ivy or something, but that's truly not the point.

By my count BCC had 18 Ivy matriculations in 2022 according to Bethesda Magazine, a third of which were to Cornell. Two to Princeton, two to Yale, rest to Penn/Columbia/Brown/Dartmouth. I don't know if that really constitutes an "edge." Your broader point is right though.

That’s it? That is a very low percentage based on the number of students there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard-Westlake in Los Angeles published its college matriculation information with all hooked people removed! I wish the local DMV schools would do this as well.

https://students.hw.com/Portals/44/completehandbook2023.pdf

Wow this is FASCINATING data.

FWIW, our kids got pretty much the same info from their DC private, with the exception of the "unhooked" aspect,. Ours was offered in a different format (including a handbook but then more supplemental materials, and workshops). And, the rejection info was only on naviance, which also included info on ED v RD (I am sure they got that too). I actually liked the way my kid's CCO presented some of this info better: it was GPA bands of where students were admitted and it helped my kid broaden his search list. I would imagine every private school offers this same data, FYI.

I also sort of question what hooks means given their use of "etc." I get taking out athletic recruits and legacy, but are they really excluding minority kids or first gen from the data set? Or what about family members who attend other than parents?

Quickly looking at two schools at which my kid (no hooks) was accepted, his local DMV private did better than Harvard Westlake, though that is obviously anecdotal (and doesn't really diminish the education kids are getting there)... though I feel a little icky for looking up the admits at those schools bc I think this data isn't really for public consumption. I see why our CCO gives everything to the kids on paper: they can't forward it around, lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All things being equal, if you drop shipped them to BCC now, fully-formed, they might have a slight edge getting into an Ivy or something, but that's truly not the point.

By my count BCC had 18 Ivy matriculations in 2022 according to Bethesda Magazine, a third of which were to Cornell. Two to Princeton, two to Yale, rest to Penn/Columbia/Brown/Dartmouth. I don't know if that really constitutes an "edge." Your broader point is right though.

That’s it? That is a very low percentage based on the number of students there.

We also don't know how many of them are legacies (highly likely given the families that live in the BCC district), URM, and athletes, lest we think these questions should apply only to private school admits.