Peer Masking as a Reasonable Accommodation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would never want tell my kid that them not wearing a mask perfectly every day for a whole school year could result in their classmate becoming seriously ill or worse. Kids don't need that kind of emotional burden. And if the kid did get sick, I wouldn't want someone in the class to think it was their fault because they took their mask down that one time or lost it for 15 minutes.

You don’t need to do that. Just explain they’re wearing a mask to provide extra protection and a classmate. It doesn’t need to be that dramatic and I promise kids will accept and understand. Have your kids really never had to do anything to accommodate another person in their life?

Not to this degree, no. I can’t even think of anything comparable that has ever been asked of a kid in school (not being snarky, honestly can’t think of an example). And you must have the kind that just accepts whatever answer you give them without follow up questions. I don’t. Me saying that the class has to wear a mask to protect a kid (when presumably other classes aren’t) would result in “but why? What will happen?” Etc.

the comparable example would be requiring girls to wear shirts that cover their arms, because one boy needs a religious accommodation because his religion believes short sleeves on girls are evil.

Except that religious beliefs aren’t covered by the ADA. 🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would never want tell my kid that them not wearing a mask perfectly every day for a whole school year could result in their classmate becoming seriously ill or worse. Kids don't need that kind of emotional burden. And if the kid did get sick, I wouldn't want someone in the class to think it was their fault because they took their mask down that one time or lost it for 15 minutes.

You don’t need to do that. Just explain they’re wearing a mask to provide extra protection and a classmate. It doesn’t need to be that dramatic and I promise kids will accept and understand. Have your kids really never had to do anything to accommodate another person in their life?

Not to this degree, no. I can’t even think of anything comparable that has ever been asked of a kid in school (not being snarky, honestly can’t think of an example). And you must have the kind that just accepts whatever answer you give them without follow up questions. I don’t. Me saying that the class has to wear a mask to protect a kid (when presumably other classes aren’t) would result in “but why? What will happen?” Etc.

the comparable example would be requiring girls to wear shirts that cover their arms, because one boy needs a religious accommodation because his religion believes short sleeves on girls are evil.

Except that religious beliefs aren’t covered by the ADA. 🙄

And no one knows if force masking every child in class is either. First, you have to ask. Then, it's going to be challenged in court.

We know the science is incredibly weak and so I think the religious belief analogy is excellent. Chap Petersen compared it to forced speech too, since many people wear a mask to demonstrate their politics are to the left of AOC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would never want tell my kid that them not wearing a mask perfectly every day for a whole school year could result in their classmate becoming seriously ill or worse. Kids don't need that kind of emotional burden. And if the kid did get sick, I wouldn't want someone in the class to think it was their fault because they took their mask down that one time or lost it for 15 minutes.

You don’t need to do that. Just explain they’re wearing a mask to provide extra protection and a classmate. It doesn’t need to be that dramatic and I promise kids will accept and understand. Have your kids really never had to do anything to accommodate another person in their life?

Not to this degree, no. I can’t even think of anything comparable that has ever been asked of a kid in school (not being snarky, honestly can’t think of an example). And you must have the kind that just accepts whatever answer you give them without follow up questions. I don’t. Me saying that the class has to wear a mask to protect a kid (when presumably other classes aren’t) would result in “but why? What will happen?” Etc.

the comparable example would be requiring girls to wear shirts that cover their arms, because one boy needs a religious accommodation because his religion believes short sleeves on girls are evil.

Except that religious beliefs aren’t covered by the ADA. 🙄

But they are covered by other civil rights laws, and the same standard (reasonability) is used.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would never want tell my kid that them not wearing a mask perfectly every day for a whole school year could result in their classmate becoming seriously ill or worse. Kids don't need that kind of emotional burden. And if the kid did get sick, I wouldn't want someone in the class to think it was their fault because they took their mask down that one time or lost it for 15 minutes.

You don’t need to do that. Just explain they’re wearing a mask to provide extra protection and a classmate. It doesn’t need to be that dramatic and I promise kids will accept and understand. Have your kids really never had to do anything to accommodate another person in their life?

Not to this degree, no. I can’t even think of anything comparable that has ever been asked of a kid in school (not being snarky, honestly can’t think of an example). And you must have the kind that just accepts whatever answer you give them without follow up questions. I don’t. Me saying that the class has to wear a mask to protect a kid (when presumably other classes aren’t) would result in “but why? What will happen?” Etc.

the comparable example would be requiring girls to wear shirts that cover their arms, because one boy needs a religious accommodation because his religion believes short sleeves on girls are evil.

Except that religious beliefs aren’t covered by the ADA. 🙄

And no one knows if force masking every child in class is either. First, you have to ask. Then, it's going to be challenged in court.

We know the science is incredibly weak and so I think the religious belief analogy is excellent. Chap Petersen compared it to forced speech too, since many people wear a mask to demonstrate their politics are to the left of AOC.

Agreed. Forced peer masking seems more like a belief at this point than an actually effective intervention. The reasonable approach is 1-way masking of the vulnerable child, plus other accommodations like a separate lunch space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would never want tell my kid that them not wearing a mask perfectly every day for a whole school year could result in their classmate becoming seriously ill or worse. Kids don't need that kind of emotional burden. And if the kid did get sick, I wouldn't want someone in the class to think it was their fault because they took their mask down that one time or lost it for 15 minutes.

You don’t need to do that. Just explain they’re wearing a mask to provide extra protection and a classmate. It doesn’t need to be that dramatic and I promise kids will accept and understand. Have your kids really never had to do anything to accommodate another person in their life?

Not to this degree, no. I can’t even think of anything comparable that has ever been asked of a kid in school (not being snarky, honestly can’t think of an example). And you must have the kind that just accepts whatever answer you give them without follow up questions. I don’t. Me saying that the class has to wear a mask to protect a kid (when presumably other classes aren’t) would result in “but why? What will happen?” Etc.

the comparable example would be requiring girls to wear shirts that cover their arms, because one boy needs a religious accommodation because his religion believes short sleeves on girls are evil.

I think a more comparable example would be that I went to high school with a student who was a paraplegic. Their parents were concerned about how slow the elevator was and their ability to evacuate the school in an emergency so they asked that all of their classes be on the ground level, which the school agreed to. But all of the science labs were upstairs, which meant that those of us who were in science with this student did not get the same lab experience everyone else did but instead had to do heavily modified labs that were suitable for non-lab classrooms (and portable on carts). It was far from ideal but we all learned the sciences and everyone had enough empathy and common sense not to protest it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would never want tell my kid that them not wearing a mask perfectly every day for a whole school year could result in their classmate becoming seriously ill or worse. Kids don't need that kind of emotional burden. And if the kid did get sick, I wouldn't want someone in the class to think it was their fault because they took their mask down that one time or lost it for 15 minutes.

You don’t need to do that. Just explain they’re wearing a mask to provide extra protection and a classmate. It doesn’t need to be that dramatic and I promise kids will accept and understand. Have your kids really never had to do anything to accommodate another person in their life?

Not to this degree, no. I can’t even think of anything comparable that has ever been asked of a kid in school (not being snarky, honestly can’t think of an example). And you must have the kind that just accepts whatever answer you give them without follow up questions. I don’t. Me saying that the class has to wear a mask to protect a kid (when presumably other classes aren’t) would result in “but why? What will happen?” Etc.

the comparable example would be requiring girls to wear shirts that cover their arms, because one boy needs a religious accommodation because his religion believes short sleeves on girls are evil.

Except that religious beliefs aren’t covered by the ADA. 🙄

And no one knows if force masking every child in class is either. First, you have to ask. Then, it's going to be challenged in court.

We know the science is incredibly weak and so I think the religious belief analogy is excellent. Chap Petersen compared it to forced speech too, since many people wear a mask to demonstrate their politics are to the left of AOC.

Agreed. Forced peer masking seems more like a belief at this point than an actually effective intervention. The reasonable approach is 1-way masking of the vulnerable child, plus other accommodations like a separate lunch space.

Pediatric cancer is a belief? WTAF is wrong with you?

[Anonymous]

Cancer has happened to kids before COVID came along. Our oncologist said it really doesn't change the equation much in terms of school/not school because exposure to ANY germs when the child has no immune system could be deadly. And there are plenty of germs that are not airborne, and I can't imagine parents would trust that masks are worn correctly by the other students. Biden even removed his to cough into his hand!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cancer has happened to kids before COVID came along. Our oncologist said it really doesn't change the equation much in terms of school/not school because exposure to ANY germs when the child has no immune system could be deadly. And there are plenty of germs that are not airborne, and I can't imagine parents would trust that masks are worn correctly by the other students. Biden even removed his to cough into his hand!

Even if not 100% effective, masks are safer than not masks when it comes to sending a medically fragile child to school.

But really, I don’t even know why I’m bothering to respond to you. You’re not making good faith arguments, you’re just trying to give yourself cover for the fact that you don’t care if other people’s kids die.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "no peanut butter" analogy isn't really comparable. There's no meaningful effect on other kids if they can't bring peanut butter and jelly sandwiches to school. They have plenty of other lunch options.

I can't actually think of any comparable situation where "reasonable accommodation" has been interpreted to require other students (rather than schools) to take certain actions. I see requiring masks on other kids to be more equivalent to requiring the teacher to give instruction in sign language, and requiring the other kids to learn sign language to accommodate one deaf kid in the class.

Queue all the parents who ONLY can bring peanut butter for their very special kids.

NP. This always comes up and isn’t a thing. They sell pb&j at schools. Peanut butter is not airborne. It was never banned from lunches.

[Anonymous]

^sorry, my post made it seem like masking is reasonable. It’s not. No, my kids are not masking in school or anywhere anymore. It’s almost 2023. That’s insanity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cancer has happened to kids before COVID came along. Our oncologist said it really doesn't change the equation much in terms of school/not school because exposure to ANY germs when the child has no immune system could be deadly. And there are plenty of germs that are not airborne, and I can't imagine parents would trust that masks are worn correctly by the other students. Biden even removed his to cough into his hand!

Even if not 100% effective, masks are safer than not masks when it comes to sending a medically fragile child to school.

But really, I don’t even know why I’m bothering to respond to you. You’re not making good faith arguments, you’re just trying to give yourself cover for the fact that you don’t care if other people’s kids die.

It's not even effective at all. The studies that have shown it to be have been junk observational studies, while the closest thing to a random control trial was done in Spain, which showed no effectiveness for kids.

Putting kids in cloth masks is medically as effective as putting them all in MAGA hats. Same with surgical. And a random control trial funded by the WHO just showed N95s were just as effective as surgical when worn by actual humans.

Crazy that 100 years of science has not changed

[Anonymous]

My son has a mild hearing loss and absolutely is affected by teachers and peers wearing masks. A reasonable accommodation for him is no mask wearing by anyone.

[Anonymous]

Ah, the references to cloth masks and use of the term "forced masking"

Nice when people make it clear who they are

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Peer masking is reasonable because it’s not an undue burden. That is the analysis. If the school provides the class well-fitting masks, it’s no cost to the families, minimal costs to the schools, and at most upsets parents who prefer their kids be maskless but really can’t show actual harm or major burden on them (except maybe in limited circumstances where another child has a disability that prevents them from masking). This is not actually as complicated as people are making it seem.

It’s not complicated as long as you get to make up all the facts!

No actually the PP above - the one who states peer masking is reasonable - has the legal analysis correct (just their terminology is a little off). It's pretty hard for a school to claim that mask requirements are somehow a fundamental alteration to the program (that's the terminology, not undue burden) when all schools in VA already had mask mandates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son has a mild hearing loss and absolutely is affected by teachers and peers wearing masks. A reasonable accommodation for him is no mask wearing by anyone.

Have you raised this with your school? What did they say?