S/O. What’s the point of potty training so young?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My training in pediatrics says averages are 50% of toddlers are trained by 36 months of age. Standard advice is not to start till after 28 months of age.

+1, fully half of all kids train after turning 3. And the percent of kids not trained by kindergarten is quite small. So those 3 year olds are successful.

It's parental preference and yes, you can absolutely do harm by training too early.

+2, 3 is average the average age in a developed society.

Now that’s a lie.

Pp not lying. I was recently told by my pediatrician that three is on point. And a little later for boys.

Lol what. That’s absurd. Any later than 2.5 is weird, but earlier than that is easier

As stupid as you are, we all know you need “easy.”

I’m sorry, it sounds like this is a really emotional topic for you. But, why on earth would you want to intentionally make something fundamental like that harder (…for yourself, your kid, their teachers, any sitters….?) Does not make sense.

Why would you want to force a child to be potty trained prior to what medical authority has studied and clearly stated (you can easily find this information) is physiologically appropriate?
You do not make sense and you although you have a sense of entitlement, you are not to be elevated higher than a medical professional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's so telling that the rudest people on this thread are the early training advocates. Kind of tells you all you need to know.

It’s weird bragging rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread too a bad turn but here’s why I trained all three kids before they were two: I wanted my kids to always do what they were capable doing. Since they were all capable of holding and releasing urine at will, they were ready and able. Bowel control happens even younger.

You would be entirely wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My training in pediatrics says averages are 50% of toddlers are trained by 36 months of age. Standard advice is not to start till after 28 months of age.

+1, fully half of all kids train after turning 3. And the percent of kids not trained by kindergarten is quite small. So those 3 year olds are successful.

It's parental preference and yes, you can absolutely do harm by training too early.

20 months isn’t too early. It’s been done for centuries. You’re just silly.

For centuries people didn't have modern plumbing or underwear. Kids ran around naked and learned to go behind a tree. People had lower standards of cleanliness and hygiene. Learning to use a modern toilet is a totally different deal and it actually makes sense that most kids take a bit longer because going to the bathroom sitting down is a weird modern convenience that we force on them, which is why doing so very early is entirely about parental preference and can cause issues. Toilet put kids in an unnatural position to eliminate.

You really are twisting yourself into knots because you're ashamed you waited until 3.5 years old to potty train.

+1. The difference is disposable diapers and nothing else. The disposable diaper industry has paid a few doctors to write articles about keeping a child in diapers until they were three (which turns into four for some) and idiot parents fell for it.

Tiresome.

God, you are an idiot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the 2001 Schum study on potty training (the most recent peer reviewed study on the matter):

"Girls demonstrated toilet-training skills at earlier ages than boys. The median ages for "staying dry during the day" were 32.5 months (95% confidence interval: 30.9--33.7) and 35.0 months (95% confidence interval: 33.3--36.7) for girls and boys, respectively. The median ages for readiness skills for girls and boys, respectively, were as follows: "showing an interest in using the potty," 24 and 26 months; "staying dry for 2 hours," 26 and 29 months; "indicating a need to go to the bathroom," 26 and 29 months. There was a marked concordance in the sequences in which girls and boys achieve individual skills. In addition, the interquartile ranges of the toileting skills varied from 6.9 to 11.4 months in girls and from 7.5 to 14.6 months in boys. In this study population, girls achieve nearly all toilet-training skills earlier than boys, including successful completion. Most children do not master the readiness skills until after the second birthday. The range of normalcy for the attainment of individual skills may vary by as much as a year."

So AVERAGE age for girls is 32.5 months and for boys 35 months. And normal variation is as much as a year. Meaning that 2.5-3.5 is very much within the normal range. A child might potty train at 22 or 24 months, but they are an outlier, just as a child who trains at 4 is an outlier.

The study also looked at "readiness skills" including showing an interest in the potty and the ability to indicate that they needed to go to the bathroom, and most do not show these signs of readiness until after 2.

The study also doesn't get into this, but UC Davis Health reports that the average time it takes to potty train is 2-3 months for girls, and 6 months for boys (again, these are averages, meaning that for every child who potty trains in a week, expect to find a child who takes significantly longer than the average). So when people say their kid trained at 3, it might mean they started at 2.5. Which is why it's so common for kids to train right around their 3rd birthday, since most people start training right around 2.5. It is very unusual for a child to train in just a few days of bootcamp-style training, despite what random strangers on DCUM try to convince you.

Here is the Schum study: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/11487825_Sequential_Acquisition_of_Toilet-Training_Skills_A_Descriptive_Study_of_Gender_and_Age_Differences_in_Normal_Children

And the UC Davis resource: https://health.ucdavis.edu/children/patients_family_resources/potty-training-children.html

How do they define “confidence” and what is the criteria for this study? We all know kids have been training later and later due to disposable diapers.

They don't use "confidence" as a metric. They use very clear metrics like "staying dry during the day" (i.e. no accidents) or the ability to recognize they need to go and indicate it before an accident occurs. The portion of the abstract I quoted is very clear about all of this and doesn't mention "confidence." Perhaps read it before commenting?

Regarding disposable diapers, I am sure they do result in later potty training. Maybe partly because diaper companies want to sell more diapers, but I think the main impact they have is that they are very good at wicking moisture away from a child, which means that babies and toddler may not get used to the feeling of wetness. That can impact their interest in potty training, as well as make it take longer because they have less familiarity with the sensation of wetness and it can take time to understand that.

We have also structured much of our lives around the convenience of disposable diapers. Two parent households, lives that take children outside their home regularly, more travel, etc., make cloth diapers incredibly inconvenient, which is why so few families choose them now. It's also become more common for new moms to get little to no support from family or community, so it is unsurprising that they are more likely to choose the easier option.

If you don't like this trend, my suggestion is to advocate for more cloth diaper use (also much more environmentally friendly) and find ways to provide greater support to parents who want to train earlier. Often daycares will fight against parents who want to train early. Some parents wind up delaying training until their lives will accommodate it (until they can take some time off, until summer when they can spend time outside, etc.) all of which delays training. If you really want people to train their kids earlier, why not do something productive about it instead of just yelling at people online about how old their kids were when they trained?

NP. I've read your quotes and the abstract and my biggest issue is that this study was conducted entirely in one city in the Upper Midwest with American-born children, and therefore rested inside a cultural environment in which training at 3+ is the norm.

So, American parents raising American toddlers in an American way came up with a specific range. Well, yes, I'm sure they did. But that doesn't really answer the question about readiness, does it? It only answers the question about cultural norms.

It's kind of like doing a study in which American parents in the Upper Midwest track their toddler's diets and then coming up with the finding that children aren't ready to eat anything but chicken fingers and yogurt pouches before 3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the 2001 Schum study on potty training (the most recent peer reviewed study on the matter):

"Girls demonstrated toilet-training skills at earlier ages than boys. The median ages for "staying dry during the day" were 32.5 months (95% confidence interval: 30.9--33.7) and 35.0 months (95% confidence interval: 33.3--36.7) for girls and boys, respectively. The median ages for readiness skills for girls and boys, respectively, were as follows: "showing an interest in using the potty," 24 and 26 months; "staying dry for 2 hours," 26 and 29 months; "indicating a need to go to the bathroom," 26 and 29 months. There was a marked concordance in the sequences in which girls and boys achieve individual skills. In addition, the interquartile ranges of the toileting skills varied from 6.9 to 11.4 months in girls and from 7.5 to 14.6 months in boys. In this study population, girls achieve nearly all toilet-training skills earlier than boys, including successful completion. Most children do not master the readiness skills until after the second birthday. The range of normalcy for the attainment of individual skills may vary by as much as a year."

So AVERAGE age for girls is 32.5 months and for boys 35 months. And normal variation is as much as a year. Meaning that 2.5-3.5 is very much within the normal range. A child might potty train at 22 or 24 months, but they are an outlier, just as a child who trains at 4 is an outlier.

The study also looked at "readiness skills" including showing an interest in the potty and the ability to indicate that they needed to go to the bathroom, and most do not show these signs of readiness until after 2.

The study also doesn't get into this, but UC Davis Health reports that the average time it takes to potty train is 2-3 months for girls, and 6 months for boys (again, these are averages, meaning that for every child who potty trains in a week, expect to find a child who takes significantly longer than the average). So when people say their kid trained at 3, it might mean they started at 2.5. Which is why it's so common for kids to train right around their 3rd birthday, since most people start training right around 2.5. It is very unusual for a child to train in just a few days of bootcamp-style training, despite what random strangers on DCUM try to convince you.

Here is the Schum study: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/11487825_Sequential_Acquisition_of_Toilet-Training_Skills_A_Descriptive_Study_of_Gender_and_Age_Differences_in_Normal_Children

And the UC Davis resource: https://health.ucdavis.edu/children/patients_family_resources/potty-training-children.html

How do they define “confidence” and what is the criteria for this study? We all know kids have been training later and later due to disposable diapers.

They don't use "confidence" as a metric. They use very clear metrics like "staying dry during the day" (i.e. no accidents) or the ability to recognize they need to go and indicate it before an accident occurs. The portion of the abstract I quoted is very clear about all of this and doesn't mention "confidence." Perhaps read it before commenting?

Regarding disposable diapers, I am sure they do result in later potty training. Maybe partly because diaper companies want to sell more diapers, but I think the main impact they have is that they are very good at wicking moisture away from a child, which means that babies and toddler may not get used to the feeling of wetness. That can impact their interest in potty training, as well as make it take longer because they have less familiarity with the sensation of wetness and it can take time to understand that.

We have also structured much of our lives around the convenience of disposable diapers. Two parent households, lives that take children outside their home regularly, more travel, etc., make cloth diapers incredibly inconvenient, which is why so few families choose them now. It's also become more common for new moms to get little to no support from family or community, so it is unsurprising that they are more likely to choose the easier option.

If you don't like this trend, my suggestion is to advocate for more cloth diaper use (also much more environmentally friendly) and find ways to provide greater support to parents who want to train earlier. Often daycares will fight against parents who want to train early. Some parents wind up delaying training until their lives will accommodate it (until they can take some time off, until summer when they can spend time outside, etc.) all of which delays training. If you really want people to train their kids earlier, why not do something productive about it instead of just yelling at people online about how old their kids were when they trained?

NP. I've read your quotes and the abstract and my biggest issue is that this study was conducted entirely in one city in the Upper Midwest with American-born children, and therefore rested inside a cultural environment in which training at 3+ is the norm.

So, American parents raising American toddlers in an American way came up with a specific range. Well, yes, I'm sure they did. But that doesn't really answer the question about readiness, does it? It only answers the question about cultural norms.

It's kind of like doing a study in which American parents in the Upper Midwest track their toddler's diets and then coming up with the finding that children aren't ready to eat anything but chicken fingers and yogurt pouches before 3.

Except it doesn't say that. It says training at 2 is the norm, and that kids generally show signs of readiness right around turning 2, and then are usually trained by 36 weeks. And that there is normal variation (so of course some kids might train earlier and some later, some might train quickly and others slowly, etc.).

I just realized that you go the term "confidence" from where the abstract says that it has a certain percentage confidence in its findings based on statistical analysis (i.e. 95% confidence in a finding). Nothing to do with how confident the kids are in training. So I'm guessing you don't have a lot of experience in statistical sampling or scientific studies and are unaccustomed to reading this kind of document.

But hey, if your ability to feel good about yourself as a parent is rooted in the fact that your child potty trained before 2, have at it. My guess based on your behavior on this thread is that this might be among your greatest parenting triumphs, so I'll let you have it.

[Anonymous]

We trained at 20M because our daughter asked for the potty. She was trained by 22M. My mother reports my sister and I were trained about the same time (started at 18M finished at 20M) because preschool in the late 80s required potty training. I see why parents now typically train later because driving somewhere with someone whose time from “potty?” To “uh oh” is about five minutes is pretty fraught.

I don’t buy that you can damage a kid by potty training early any more than I buy that you can damage a kid by giving them vegetables or having an early bedtime: you can damage a kid by force feeding them or tying them in their crib, but otherwise it’s just…parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My training in pediatrics says averages are 50% of toddlers are trained by 36 months of age. Standard advice is not to start till after 28 months of age.

+1, fully half of all kids train after turning 3. And the percent of kids not trained by kindergarten is quite small. So those 3 year olds are successful.

It's parental preference and yes, you can absolutely do harm by training too early.

20 months isn’t too early. It’s been done for centuries. You’re just silly.

For centuries people didn't have modern plumbing or underwear. Kids ran around naked and learned to go behind a tree. People had lower standards of cleanliness and hygiene. Learning to use a modern toilet is a totally different deal and it actually makes sense that most kids take a bit longer because going to the bathroom sitting down is a weird modern convenience that we force on them, which is why doing so very early is entirely about parental preference and can cause issues. Toilet put kids in an unnatural position to eliminate.

You really are twisting yourself into knots because you're ashamed you waited until 3.5 years old to potty train.

+1. The difference is disposable diapers and nothing else. The disposable diaper industry has paid a few doctors to write articles about keeping a child in diapers until they were three (which turns into four for some) and idiot parents fell for it.

Tiresome.

God, you are an idiot.

-1. I actually agree. Disposable diapers is the only difference in the equation.

[Anonymous]

My DD used to withhold poop standing up and had pretty bad constipation. Our pediatrician suggested a potty insert in the toilet with a high step stool thing that was secure. It was hard to get her to sit because she was standing and clenching but once she sat she couldn’t hold it anymore. No more withholding and no more constipation. Dr explained that sitting straightens the descending colon and it’s easier to poop. Pee followed nearly immediately. She was 23 months and fully day and nap trained.

I was grateful for the advice!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD used to withhold poop standing up and had pretty bad constipation. Our pediatrician suggested a potty insert in the toilet with a high step stool thing that was secure. It was hard to get her to sit because she was standing and clenching but once she sat she couldn’t hold it anymore. No more withholding and no more constipation. Dr explained that sitting straightens the descending colon and it’s easier to poop. Pee followed nearly immediately. She was 23 months and fully day and nap trained.

I was grateful for the advice!

Most babies/toddler in diapers don't stand to poop -- they squat. Sitting on a potty does not feel right to them unless their knees are above their pelvis, and even then they might resist because the feeling of sitting back as opposed to leaning forward doesn't feel right. This is also one reason why kids sometimes get used to going on a training potty on the ground and then won't go in the big toilet -- the potty on the ground better approximates squatting.

My DD's preferred posture for pooping was all fours and "bearing down" (yes, pooping and giving birth mostly use the same muscles). As a result, it was very hard to potty train her for poop even though she was otherwise ready (knew when she had to go, would communicate this need) but sitting on a potty felt wrong to her. We wound up having to do this slow transfer where initiatially just asked her to get used to pooping in her diaper in the bathroom, then slowly moved her into a squatting position, then moved her to the potty. We had an insert with a stool from the start, but it didn't matter because what she really wanted was to get down on her hands and knees.

My DD trained after age 3 despite starting shortly after she turned 2. And this is one reason why. But yes, please tell me I was lazy and that it's easy to train a child at 23 months when your kid just needed to learn to sit down on a potty insert.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD used to withhold poop standing up and had pretty bad constipation. Our pediatrician suggested a potty insert in the toilet with a high step stool thing that was secure. It was hard to get her to sit because she was standing and clenching but once she sat she couldn’t hold it anymore. No more withholding and no more constipation. Dr explained that sitting straightens the descending colon and it’s easier to poop. Pee followed nearly immediately. She was 23 months and fully day and nap trained.

I was grateful for the advice!

Most babies/toddler in diapers don't stand to poop -- they squat. Sitting on a potty does not feel right to them unless their knees are above their pelvis, and even then they might resist because the feeling of sitting back as opposed to leaning forward doesn't feel right. This is also one reason why kids sometimes get used to going on a training potty on the ground and then won't go in the big toilet -- the potty on the ground better approximates squatting.

My DD's preferred posture for pooping was all fours and "bearing down" (yes, pooping and giving birth mostly use the same muscles). As a result, it was very hard to potty train her for poop even though she was otherwise ready (knew when she had to go, would communicate this need) but sitting on a potty felt wrong to her. We wound up having to do this slow transfer where initiatially just asked her to get used to pooping in her diaper in the bathroom, then slowly moved her into a squatting position, then moved her to the potty. We had an insert with a stool from the start, but it didn't matter because what she really wanted was to get down on her hands and knees.

My DD trained after age 3 despite starting shortly after she turned 2. And this is one reason why. But yes, please tell me I was lazy and that it's easy to train a child at 23 months when your kid just needed to learn to sit down on a potty insert.

All my kids stood to poop in diapers starting at around nine months holding on to the rail of the crib.

No one called you lazy, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD used to withhold poop standing up and had pretty bad constipation. Our pediatrician suggested a potty insert in the toilet with a high step stool thing that was secure. It was hard to get her to sit because she was standing and clenching but once she sat she couldn’t hold it anymore. No more withholding and no more constipation. Dr explained that sitting straightens the descending colon and it’s easier to poop. Pee followed nearly immediately. She was 23 months and fully day and nap trained.

I was grateful for the advice!

+1. Same experience at the same age with my son. Sitting to poop cured all constipation issues at 22 months. He was a stand-to-poop guy too!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's so telling that the rudest people on this thread are the early training advocates. Kind of tells you all you need to know.

It’s weird bragging rights.

Yes, this certainly seems to be the case with the one woman in our moms group who is starting with her nine month old.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, the bragging rights thing is so weird. My kid who trained later, at nearly 3-graduated at the top of his class and is a engineer! So there haha. And my kid who trained right at 2-also did well in hs and is in college doing great.

As an experienced mom, I've found that the moms who really push the early training-regardless of readiness-tend to be anxious and have anxious kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD used to withhold poop standing up and had pretty bad constipation. Our pediatrician suggested a potty insert in the toilet with a high step stool thing that was secure. It was hard to get her to sit because she was standing and clenching but once she sat she couldn’t hold it anymore. No more withholding and no more constipation. Dr explained that sitting straightens the descending colon and it’s easier to poop. Pee followed nearly immediately. She was 23 months and fully day and nap trained.

I was grateful for the advice!

Most babies/toddler in diapers don't stand to poop -- they squat. Sitting on a potty does not feel right to them unless their knees are above their pelvis, and even then they might resist because the feeling of sitting back as opposed to leaning forward doesn't feel right. This is also one reason why kids sometimes get used to going on a training potty on the ground and then won't go in the big toilet -- the potty on the ground better approximates squatting.

My DD's preferred posture for pooping was all fours and "bearing down" (yes, pooping and giving birth mostly use the same muscles). As a result, it was very hard to potty train her for poop even though she was otherwise ready (knew when she had to go, would communicate this need) but sitting on a potty felt wrong to her. We wound up having to do this slow transfer where initiatially just asked her to get used to pooping in her diaper in the bathroom, then slowly moved her into a squatting position, then moved her to the potty. We had an insert with a stool from the start, but it didn't matter because what she really wanted was to get down on her hands and knees.

My DD trained after age 3 despite starting shortly after she turned 2. And this is one reason why. But yes, please tell me I was lazy and that it's easy to train a child at 23 months when your kid just needed to learn to sit down on a potty insert.

All my kids stood to poop in diapers starting at around nine months holding on to the rail of the crib.

No one called you lazy, PP.

Multiple PPs on this thread have said that the reason kids train later is because their parents are lazy or too busy looking at their phones. The people on here who train before 3 have a weird superiority complex.

The point is that not all kids stand to poop. I’ve seen this on here multiple times (had numerous people tell me there was something wrong with my kid because she didn’t stand when we were potty training and couldn’t get her to poop on the potty— when I asked my pediatrician she literally rolled her eyes and said no, not all kids stand to poop). Glad your kid resolved his constipation but the idea that any kid who trains after turning 2 has this problem is ridiculous.