New Jackson-Reed HS (Wilson HS) School Principal - Sah Brown from Eastern High School

[Anonymous]

^^ And, should not a school in a neighborhood school system not be concerned if IB students find it inadequate?

I don’t think that’s okay. Obviously, some people do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What does the JR PTO provide? It is not the same situation as the ES feeders.

Form 990s are public. I do love your confidence that, notwithstanding that you have no clue what they actually spend money on, you are supremely confident in your belief of what it isn't. Precious.

Here's what they spent money on in 2020 (last 990 filed)

64% on Student activities: performing arts, conferences, athletics, publications and other student activities and organizations

30% on Educational Programs: purchasing equipment, instructional materials and finding faculty grants and conferences

6% on Student attendance at various academic competitions, conferences, cultural visits and exchanges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


I’m very surprised that a parent wouldn’t expect the principal of a schools to focus on the students AT THE SCHOOL rather than trying to replace those students with different ones. What a bizarre expectation.


A principal should do both! If the IB students avoid the school, then the system—DCPS in this case—is not serving those students well. Same for all the schools that the OOB come from. It’s great that the system lets people lottery for different schools, but IB should be the default, or else the system has given up trying to make it’s schools not suck.

THIS. DCPS could put the effort in to create a high performing gen ed MS/HS in Capitol Hill but it hasn't. And it is always DCPS circular logic: Why should DCPS care about what IB families want when it's not the IB families at the school. Well, the IB families aren't at the school because the school doesn't care about what IB families want . . . .

I wish NPR or the NYT would do a series about this catch-22 and be able to source actual data and experiences and results. I mean, I guess it is possible that it is just this easy, but, hmmmmmmmmmm.

Oh wait. Never mind. Nice White Parents. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/podcasts/nice-white-parents-serial.html

Could you say more about how you think the lessons of NWP applies in this circumstance?

I know there is the basic idea of a UMC parent wanting something more from the school, but beyond that I don’t see similarities. Eastern is not under-resourced. OP is not white, is neither attracted nor put-off by Eastern’s racial composition, is not wanting new programs. OP was concerned about the lack of achievement in a program the school already has and wanted reassurance that her kid could get a good education and successfully qualify for an IB diploma. She found the principal underwhelming and unable to give her that reassurance.

So what’s the answer? OP deciding not to worry about whether her child would actually end up with an IB diploma?

The answer the NWP poster alludes to is OP not having the gall to ask questions relating to the performance of Eastern's IB Diploma program of Mr. Brown in the first place. Subsequently, she should have avoided briefly reporting on the nature of her interaction with, and professional impressions of, him so as not to open herself up to attack.

Let's say she'd stuck to a script governed by avoidance, a failure to engage. In that case, what would have been achieved?

meh. Nice White Parents *actually attend* the school and annoy people with their anti-bologna sandwich campaigns. That is much different (and better) than OP, who just wants to publicly criticize a black principal at a school she doesn’t attend, based on a single conversation.

So higher income parents get bashed if they attend their low performing school and they get bashed if they decide not to attend. What exactly would make you happy. Would you prefer they just leave DCPS and go private? It does seem like no one here has an issue with private school parents but watch out if you are high income and highly educated and want to attend your local DCPS high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does the JR PTO provide? It is not the same situation as the ES feeders.

Form 990s are public. I do love your confidence that, notwithstanding that you have no clue what they actually spend money on, you are supremely confident in your belief of what it isn't. Precious.

Here's what they spent money on in 2020 (last 990 filed)

64% on Student activities: performing arts, conferences, athletics, publications and other student activities and organizations

30% on Educational Programs: purchasing equipment, instructional materials and finding faculty grants and conferences

6% on Student attendance at various academic competitions, conferences, cultural visits and exchanges.

DP: So 30% x 2.5% of the IBP share Eastern’s operating budget = 0.75% comparative additional expenditure on direct academics? If Eastern’s IBP had that additional 0.75%, how much improvement would you expect in IB diploma rates?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


I’m very surprised that a parent wouldn’t expect the principal of a schools to focus on the students AT THE SCHOOL rather than trying to replace those students with different ones. What a bizarre expectation.


A principal should do both! If the IB students avoid the school, then the system—DCPS in this case—is not serving those students well. Same for all the schools that the OOB come from. It’s great that the system lets people lottery for different schools, but IB should be the default, or else the system has given up trying to make it’s schools not suck.

THIS. DCPS could put the effort in to create a high performing gen ed MS/HS in Capitol Hill but it hasn't. And it is always DCPS circular logic: Why should DCPS care about what IB families want when it's not the IB families at the school. Well, the IB families aren't at the school because the school doesn't care about what IB families want . . . .

I wish NPR or the NYT would do a series about this catch-22 and be able to source actual data and experiences and results. I mean, I guess it is possible that it is just this easy, but, hmmmmmmmmmm.

Oh wait. Never mind. Nice White Parents. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/podcasts/nice-white-parents-serial.html

Could you say more about how you think the lessons of NWP applies in this circumstance?

I know there is the basic idea of a UMC parent wanting something more from the school, but beyond that I don’t see similarities. Eastern is not under-resourced. OP is not white, is neither attracted nor put-off by Eastern’s racial composition, is not wanting new programs. OP was concerned about the lack of achievement in a program the school already has and wanted reassurance that her kid could get a good education and successfully qualify for an IB diploma. She found the principal underwhelming and unable to give her that reassurance.

So what’s the answer? OP deciding not to worry about whether her child would actually end up with an IB diploma?

I think your post is disingenuous, but I'll play.

Could you say more about how you think the lessons of NWP applies in this circumstance?

The lesson of NWP wasn't that those parents didn't want, or didn't have a right to want, a proximate school providing an excellent education. The point of the series was to explore what happens when schools try and fundamentally change to appease the expressed desired of NWP; what happens to school culture, whether those families will actually come in the near term and the long term engagement of those NWP. Seems like you maybe didn't listen tot NWP? Or weren't paying attention? Or came to it with such an agenda that your preconceptions could not be overcome.

Let's dig into your questions a bit, shall we?

I know there is the basic idea of a UMC parent wanting something more from the school, but beyond that I don’t see similarities.

Kind of “yada’yada’d” past that one didn’t you? As a rhetorical device it is genius to start with “accept for the part that it is germain, it isn’t germain.”

Eastern is not under-resourced.

Saying something with conviction does not make it true. The idea of resourcing in a school environment is really three different concepts: district funding, PTO funding and familial resources.
Let’s start with the fact that compared to JR it is dramatically under-resourced. While the per capita funding from DCPS is the same as JR, the PTO funding to close gaps is materially different. I don’t have an issue with JR PTO providing the things that the school cannot or does not. But it is gaslighting 101 to just pretend that isn’t the case. Finally, are you really going to argue that the familial resources at JR compared to Eastern are the same? Seriously? You are just going to pretend the supplementing that JR families do doesn’t exist? Again, I am not taking issue with their efforts and I too spend resources to support my kids. But I am responding to your “thoughtful” reply. If ignoring the PTO finding was gaslighting 101 then ignoring difference in familial resources is like a gaslighting masterclass.

OP is not white,

The concept of “nice white parents” is a turn of phrase used to describe UMC parents who want to change a school or think a school should be focused on them and not the kids it currently serves. “White” is a placeholder for entitlement. But you knew that and were just tryin to be cute.
is neither attracted nor put-off by Eastern’s racial composition,


You do not know this. You cannot know this. That aside, take a moment and realize you just typed "I don't see color". I call BS on anyone who claims to not see color. The challenge with DC public education is that for the most part low performing kids are minorities. That doesn't mean all black/brown kids are low performing, but the numbers are what they are. I take issue with the composition of 90+% kids at least one year behind grade level. Any parent of a high performing kid would. How you differentiate that from race is tough. And bringing this back to NWP, the objections of the NWP wasn't to the current minority populations but to the low performance and behavioral issues.

is not wanting new programs. OP was concerned about the lack of achievement in a program the school already has and wanted reassurance that her kid could get a good education and successfully qualify for an IB diploma.

Disingenuous, again. What OP seems to be saying is that the IB program isn't really a full fledged IB program. She seemed to be arguing it was a marketing move but that what was being offered wasn't true IB and as a consequence her kid wouldn't truly receive an IB education. That's probably fair. The idea, however, that she wasn't asking for a new program is at best disingenuous and factually incorrect. She was kicking tires on whether it was truly an IB program (she has that right). Her questions were designed to expose the weaknesses which she would want a plan to address to make her comfortable ending her kid there (she has that right). But these are very much questions and positioning about what deficiencies need to be closed for her to attend. See, NWP.
She got answers. What I hear from what she repeated is that Sah basically said, “Look. I have an IB program at a school of kids who for the most part can’t hack a true IB program. So my choice is to run it like a high end program and have no one participate or succeed or do the best with what I have. But no matter how many times you ask the same question I am not going to bash my kids and my school.” OP didn’t like that answer. Do you really not see how that is NWP wanting the admin to make the school and presentation about them and not the kids who are there?

She found the principal underwhelming and unable to give her that reassurance.

That is her right. But, again, do you not see the NWP analog? The idea being floated by OP and you and others is that if she had only been catered to and liked what she heard she would have sent her kid and her neighbors would have sent their kids and the school would be the next JR and a magical place. But what NWP illustrated is that even when admins took that approach, the behavior of the NWP trajectory of the school doesn’t follow what you and others are suggesting.

So what’s the answer? OP deciding not to worry about whether her child would actually end up with an IB diploma?

I see what you did there! This is another cute, disingenuous turn of phrase that is unrelated to the central issue of why or how NWP is apropos. The problem here is not that OP was worried about her kid. The problem is the lack of perspective you and others have in what the job of an admin is at a school that is one way when NWP want it to be something else.

One point that deserves addressing here: the resourcing.

In NWP, they talked about schools with broken toilets and other evidence of disrepair. School funding of that sort is not an issue here, thankfully.

For PTO funding, I don’t think PTO funding is a critical issue here either. PTO and non-profit contributions to DCPS or DCPCS HSs can add bells and whistles, but the DC funding is the main pot.

Family resources — financial, educational, advocacy — is a big deal! This is a fundamental issue, and it’s about need not race. Some schools succeed despite high family needs, but most don’t.

And lack of family resources is still separate from whether a school is or is not well-run.

But, still, what is the IBP-researcher mom supposed to do? Send her child to a school with the expectation that he will not receive a solid education?

How can the mom, or even the HS, solve this problem? Find the solution, and we can all stop haranguing each other.

Yet again, no one is suggesting that! (At least not on this thread and not me now). For the record I was also very vocal when DCUM was pounding on public officials who chose not to send their kids to Eastern (or other by right DCPS). They have that right and only they know what is best for their kids. You are changing the central question by continuing to suggest the issue with OP was that she chose another school. The issue I and others took was with her central thesis that the Principal should have been more concerned with her desires, needs and wants and that those are somehow more important (or even as important) as meeting the needs of the currently enrolled population. Do you see the difference?

I'm also a bit at a loss as to how you can gloss over PTSO funding. They raise 300k+ per year. That's about 2.5% of Eastern's total FY budget. That's not immaterial. I would remind you the reason this topic is even under discussion is not because I introduced it, but rather because Gaslighting Mommy/Daddy stated as a "fact" that there was no financial difference between JR and Eastern.

This is incorrect. There is no way the Wilson PTSO raises 300k per year. They don’t raise anything close to that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


I’m very surprised that a parent wouldn’t expect the principal of a schools to focus on the students AT THE SCHOOL rather than trying to replace those students with different ones. What a bizarre expectation.


A principal should do both! If the IB students avoid the school, then the system—DCPS in this case—is not serving those students well. Same for all the schools that the OOB come from. It’s great that the system lets people lottery for different schools, but IB should be the default, or else the system has given up trying to make it’s schools not suck.

THIS. DCPS could put the effort in to create a high performing gen ed MS/HS in Capitol Hill but it hasn't. And it is always DCPS circular logic: Why should DCPS care about what IB families want when it's not the IB families at the school. Well, the IB families aren't at the school because the school doesn't care about what IB families want . . . .

I wish NPR or the NYT would do a series about this catch-22 and be able to source actual data and experiences and results. I mean, I guess it is possible that it is just this easy, but, hmmmmmmmmmm.

Oh wait. Never mind. Nice White Parents. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/podcasts/nice-white-parents-serial.html

Could you say more about how you think the lessons of NWP applies in this circumstance?

I know there is the basic idea of a UMC parent wanting something more from the school, but beyond that I don’t see similarities. Eastern is not under-resourced. OP is not white, is neither attracted nor put-off by Eastern’s racial composition, is not wanting new programs. OP was concerned about the lack of achievement in a program the school already has and wanted reassurance that her kid could get a good education and successfully qualify for an IB diploma. She found the principal underwhelming and unable to give her that reassurance.

So what’s the answer? OP deciding not to worry about whether her child would actually end up with an IB diploma?

I think your post is disingenuous, but I'll play.

Could you say more about how you think the lessons of NWP applies in this circumstance?

The lesson of NWP wasn't that those parents didn't want, or didn't have a right to want, a proximate school providing an excellent education. The point of the series was to explore what happens when schools try and fundamentally change to appease the expressed desired of NWP; what happens to school culture, whether those families will actually come in the near term and the long term engagement of those NWP. Seems like you maybe didn't listen tot NWP? Or weren't paying attention? Or came to it with such an agenda that your preconceptions could not be overcome.

Let's dig into your questions a bit, shall we?

I know there is the basic idea of a UMC parent wanting something more from the school, but beyond that I don’t see similarities.

Kind of “yada’yada’d” past that one didn’t you? As a rhetorical device it is genius to start with “accept for the part that it is germain, it isn’t germain.”

Eastern is not under-resourced.

Saying something with conviction does not make it true. The idea of resourcing in a school environment is really three different concepts: district funding, PTO funding and familial resources.
Let’s start with the fact that compared to JR it is dramatically under-resourced. While the per capita funding from DCPS is the same as JR, the PTO funding to close gaps is materially different. I don’t have an issue with JR PTO providing the things that the school cannot or does not. But it is gaslighting 101 to just pretend that isn’t the case. Finally, are you really going to argue that the familial resources at JR compared to Eastern are the same? Seriously? You are just going to pretend the supplementing that JR families do doesn’t exist? Again, I am not taking issue with their efforts and I too spend resources to support my kids. But I am responding to your “thoughtful” reply. If ignoring the PTO finding was gaslighting 101 then ignoring difference in familial resources is like a gaslighting masterclass.

OP is not white,

The concept of “nice white parents” is a turn of phrase used to describe UMC parents who want to change a school or think a school should be focused on them and not the kids it currently serves. “White” is a placeholder for entitlement. But you knew that and were just tryin to be cute.
is neither attracted nor put-off by Eastern’s racial composition,


You do not know this. You cannot know this. That aside, take a moment and realize you just typed "I don't see color". I call BS on anyone who claims to not see color. The challenge with DC public education is that for the most part low performing kids are minorities. That doesn't mean all black/brown kids are low performing, but the numbers are what they are. I take issue with the composition of 90+% kids at least one year behind grade level. Any parent of a high performing kid would. How you differentiate that from race is tough. And bringing this back to NWP, the objections of the NWP wasn't to the current minority populations but to the low performance and behavioral issues.

is not wanting new programs. OP was concerned about the lack of achievement in a program the school already has and wanted reassurance that her kid could get a good education and successfully qualify for an IB diploma.

Disingenuous, again. What OP seems to be saying is that the IB program isn't really a full fledged IB program. She seemed to be arguing it was a marketing move but that what was being offered wasn't true IB and as a consequence her kid wouldn't truly receive an IB education. That's probably fair. The idea, however, that she wasn't asking for a new program is at best disingenuous and factually incorrect. She was kicking tires on whether it was truly an IB program (she has that right). Her questions were designed to expose the weaknesses which she would want a plan to address to make her comfortable ending her kid there (she has that right). But these are very much questions and positioning about what deficiencies need to be closed for her to attend. See, NWP.
She got answers. What I hear from what she repeated is that Sah basically said, “Look. I have an IB program at a school of kids who for the most part can’t hack a true IB program. So my choice is to run it like a high end program and have no one participate or succeed or do the best with what I have. But no matter how many times you ask the same question I am not going to bash my kids and my school.” OP didn’t like that answer. Do you really not see how that is NWP wanting the admin to make the school and presentation about them and not the kids who are there?

She found the principal underwhelming and unable to give her that reassurance.

That is her right. But, again, do you not see the NWP analog? The idea being floated by OP and you and others is that if she had only been catered to and liked what she heard she would have sent her kid and her neighbors would have sent their kids and the school would be the next JR and a magical place. But what NWP illustrated is that even when admins took that approach, the behavior of the NWP trajectory of the school doesn’t follow what you and others are suggesting.

So what’s the answer? OP deciding not to worry about whether her child would actually end up with an IB diploma?

I see what you did there! This is another cute, disingenuous turn of phrase that is unrelated to the central issue of why or how NWP is apropos. The problem here is not that OP was worried about her kid. The problem is the lack of perspective you and others have in what the job of an admin is at a school that is one way when NWP want it to be something else.

One point that deserves addressing here: the resourcing.

In NWP, they talked about schools with broken toilets and other evidence of disrepair. School funding of that sort is not an issue here, thankfully.

For PTO funding, I don’t think PTO funding is a critical issue here either. PTO and non-profit contributions to DCPS or DCPCS HSs can add bells and whistles, but the DC funding is the main pot.

Family resources — financial, educational, advocacy — is a big deal! This is a fundamental issue, and it’s about need not race. Some schools succeed despite high family needs, but most don’t.

And lack of family resources is still separate from whether a school is or is not well-run.

But, still, what is the IBP-researcher mom supposed to do? Send her child to a school with the expectation that he will not receive a solid education?

How can the mom, or even the HS, solve this problem? Find the solution, and we can all stop haranguing each other.

Yet again, no one is suggesting that! (At least not on this thread and not me now). For the record I was also very vocal when DCUM was pounding on public officials who chose not to send their kids to Eastern (or other by right DCPS). They have that right and only they know what is best for their kids. You are changing the central question by continuing to suggest the issue with OP was that she chose another school. The issue I and others took was with her central thesis that the Principal should have been more concerned with her desires, needs and wants and that those are somehow more important (or even as important) as meeting the needs of the currently enrolled population. Do you see the difference?

I'm also a bit at a loss as to how you can gloss over PTSO funding. They raise 300k+ per year. That's about 2.5% of Eastern's total FY budget. That's not immaterial. I would remind you the reason this topic is even under discussion is not because I introduced it, but rather because Gaslighting Mommy/Daddy stated as a "fact" that there was no financial difference between JR and Eastern.

This is incorrect. There is no way the Wilson PTSO raises 300k per year. They don’t raise anything close to that.

It’s up and down, but Wilson/JR PTO raised between $170k and $330k annually over the last 5 years. They spend about $225K/year.

[Anonymous]

^^ Equivalent to an expenditure of $205 per Eastern student, or $61 per Eastern student in additional academic spending.

[Anonymous]

Some of you guys have been hammering at a random neighborhood mom who bothered to look into the performance of Eastern's IB Diploma program for pages now. The exercise is as pointless as it is nuts.

Suggestion: look at the development trajectory of Blair Montgomery HS in MoCo in the last 40 years rather than taking pot shots at moms.

Blair wasn't all that different from Eastern when I was a little kid living in Silver Spring. The school was dramatically under-enrolled, under-performing and filled with low SES minority students. Then, in the early 80s, MoCo started up two, large, super-duper test-in magnet programs at Blair, each with a county-wide draw, one program for STEM, the other for humanities. The magnets have always offered preferential treatment in admissions to in-boundary applicants. Almost since their inception, these programs have admitted a fraction of 8th grade applicants, roughly 10% in this century.

With the magnets in place, Blair began to attract top administrators, resources to renovate and better teachers. These days, Blair is a thriving by-right HS with double the enrollment it had in my day, and a highly diverse student body, attracting sizeable cohorts of black, white, Asian and Latino students, low and high SES.

Our ed leaders in the District would much rather see Eastern languish endlessly as a hopeless case under middling leadership than take a page from the MoCo Blair story. Go at them, please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


I’m very surprised that a parent wouldn’t expect the principal of a schools to focus on the students AT THE SCHOOL rather than trying to replace those students with different ones. What a bizarre expectation.


A principal should do both! If the IB students avoid the school, then the system—DCPS in this case—is not serving those students well. Same for all the schools that the OOB come from. It’s great that the system lets people lottery for different schools, but IB should be the default, or else the system has given up trying to make it’s schools not suck.

THIS. DCPS could put the effort in to create a high performing gen ed MS/HS in Capitol Hill but it hasn't. And it is always DCPS circular logic: Why should DCPS care about what IB families want when it's not the IB families at the school. Well, the IB families aren't at the school because the school doesn't care about what IB families want . . . .

I wish NPR or the NYT would do a series about this catch-22 and be able to source actual data and experiences and results. I mean, I guess it is possible that it is just this easy, but, hmmmmmmmmmm.

Oh wait. Never mind. Nice White Parents. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/podcasts/nice-white-parents-serial.html

Could you say more about how you think the lessons of NWP applies in this circumstance?

I know there is the basic idea of a UMC parent wanting something more from the school, but beyond that I don’t see similarities. Eastern is not under-resourced. OP is not white, is neither attracted nor put-off by Eastern’s racial composition, is not wanting new programs. OP was concerned about the lack of achievement in a program the school already has and wanted reassurance that her kid could get a good education and successfully qualify for an IB diploma. She found the principal underwhelming and unable to give her that reassurance.

So what’s the answer? OP deciding not to worry about whether her child would actually end up with an IB diploma?

The answer the NWP poster alludes to is OP not having the gall to ask questions relating to the performance of Eastern's IB Diploma program of Mr. Brown in the first place. Subsequently, she should have avoided briefly reporting on the nature of her interaction with, and professional impressions of, him so as not to open herself up to attack.

Let's say she'd stuck to a script governed by avoidance, a failure to engage. In that case, what would have been achieved?

meh. Nice White Parents *actually attend* the school and annoy people with their anti-bologna sandwich campaigns. That is much different (and better) than OP, who just wants to publicly criticize a black principal at a school she doesn’t attend, based on a single conversation.

So higher income parents get bashed if they attend their low performing school and they get bashed if they decide not to attend. What exactly would make you happy. Would you prefer they just leave DCPS and go private? It does seem like no one here has an issue with private school parents but watch out if you are high income and highly educated and want to attend your local DCPS high school.

PP here. I think the parents attending schools have every right to organize however they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


I’m very surprised that a parent wouldn’t expect the principal of a schools to focus on the students AT THE SCHOOL rather than trying to replace those students with different ones. What a bizarre expectation.


A principal should do both! If the IB students avoid the school, then the system—DCPS in this case—is not serving those students well. Same for all the schools that the OOB come from. It’s great that the system lets people lottery for different schools, but IB should be the default, or else the system has given up trying to make it’s schools not suck.

THIS. DCPS could put the effort in to create a high performing gen ed MS/HS in Capitol Hill but it hasn't. And it is always DCPS circular logic: Why should DCPS care about what IB families want when it's not the IB families at the school. Well, the IB families aren't at the school because the school doesn't care about what IB families want . . . .

I wish NPR or the NYT would do a series about this catch-22 and be able to source actual data and experiences and results. I mean, I guess it is possible that it is just this easy, but, hmmmmmmmmmm.

Oh wait. Never mind. Nice White Parents. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/podcasts/nice-white-parents-serial.html

Could you say more about how you think the lessons of NWP applies in this circumstance?

I know there is the basic idea of a UMC parent wanting something more from the school, but beyond that I don’t see similarities. Eastern is not under-resourced. OP is not white, is neither attracted nor put-off by Eastern’s racial composition, is not wanting new programs. OP was concerned about the lack of achievement in a program the school already has and wanted reassurance that her kid could get a good education and successfully qualify for an IB diploma. She found the principal underwhelming and unable to give her that reassurance.

So what’s the answer? OP deciding not to worry about whether her child would actually end up with an IB diploma?

The answer the NWP poster alludes to is OP not having the gall to ask questions relating to the performance of Eastern's IB Diploma program of Mr. Brown in the first place. Subsequently, she should have avoided briefly reporting on the nature of her interaction with, and professional impressions of, him so as not to open herself up to attack.

Let's say she'd stuck to a script governed by avoidance, a failure to engage. In that case, what would have been achieved?

meh. Nice White Parents *actually attend* the school and annoy people with their anti-bologna sandwich campaigns. That is much different (and better) than OP, who just wants to publicly criticize a black principal at a school she doesn’t attend, based on a single conversation.

So higher income parents get bashed if they attend their low performing school and they get bashed if they decide not to attend. What exactly would make you happy. Would you prefer they just leave DCPS and go private? It does seem like no one here has an issue with private school parents but watch out if you are high income and highly educated and want to attend your local DCPS high school.

PP here. I think the parents attending schools have every right to organize however they want.

LOL. That was the main problem in “Nice White Parents” — new families showing up and the leading change according to their interests.

I guess you are not very familiar with the series you referenced?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


I’m very surprised that a parent wouldn’t expect the principal of a schools to focus on the students AT THE SCHOOL rather than trying to replace those students with different ones. What a bizarre expectation.


A principal should do both! If the IB students avoid the school, then the system—DCPS in this case—is not serving those students well. Same for all the schools that the OOB come from. It’s great that the system lets people lottery for different schools, but IB should be the default, or else the system has given up trying to make it’s schools not suck.

THIS. DCPS could put the effort in to create a high performing gen ed MS/HS in Capitol Hill but it hasn't. And it is always DCPS circular logic: Why should DCPS care about what IB families want when it's not the IB families at the school. Well, the IB families aren't at the school because the school doesn't care about what IB families want . . . .

I wish NPR or the NYT would do a series about this catch-22 and be able to source actual data and experiences and results. I mean, I guess it is possible that it is just this easy, but, hmmmmmmmmmm.

Oh wait. Never mind. Nice White Parents. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/podcasts/nice-white-parents-serial.html

Could you say more about how you think the lessons of NWP applies in this circumstance?

I know there is the basic idea of a UMC parent wanting something more from the school, but beyond that I don’t see similarities. Eastern is not under-resourced. OP is not white, is neither attracted nor put-off by Eastern’s racial composition, is not wanting new programs. OP was concerned about the lack of achievement in a program the school already has and wanted reassurance that her kid could get a good education and successfully qualify for an IB diploma. She found the principal underwhelming and unable to give her that reassurance.

So what’s the answer? OP deciding not to worry about whether her child would actually end up with an IB diploma?

The answer the NWP poster alludes to is OP not having the gall to ask questions relating to the performance of Eastern's IB Diploma program of Mr. Brown in the first place. Subsequently, she should have avoided briefly reporting on the nature of her interaction with, and professional impressions of, him so as not to open herself up to attack.

Let's say she'd stuck to a script governed by avoidance, a failure to engage. In that case, what would have been achieved?

meh. Nice White Parents *actually attend* the school and annoy people with their anti-bologna sandwich campaigns. That is much different (and better) than OP, who just wants to publicly criticize a black principal at a school she doesn’t attend, based on a single conversation.

So higher income parents get bashed if they attend their low performing school and they get bashed if they decide not to attend. What exactly would make you happy. Would you prefer they just leave DCPS and go private? It does seem like no one here has an issue with private school parents but watch out if you are high income and highly educated and want to attend your local DCPS high school.

PP here. I think the parents attending schools have every right to organize however they want.

LOL. That was the main problem in “Nice White Parents” — new families showing up and the leading change according to their interests.

I guess you are not very familiar with the series you referenced?

Just because I can summarize the argument doesn’t mean I agree with it. I think “NWP” is an illegitimate and bad-faith racialized attack on parents sending their kids to the local schools. OP deciding to put a principal on blast (when she never went to the school) due to a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation is annoying and exhausting.

[Anonymous]

what is the PTO argument about? If people think Eastern deserves PTO money, then they need to get the PTO fundraising parents to send their kids to Eastern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


I’m very surprised that a parent wouldn’t expect the principal of a schools to focus on the students AT THE SCHOOL rather than trying to replace those students with different ones. What a bizarre expectation.


A principal should do both! If the IB students avoid the school, then the system—DCPS in this case—is not serving those students well. Same for all the schools that the OOB come from. It’s great that the system lets people lottery for different schools, but IB should be the default, or else the system has given up trying to make it’s schools not suck.

THIS. DCPS could put the effort in to create a high performing gen ed MS/HS in Capitol Hill but it hasn't. And it is always DCPS circular logic: Why should DCPS care about what IB families want when it's not the IB families at the school. Well, the IB families aren't at the school because the school doesn't care about what IB families want . . . .

I wish NPR or the NYT would do a series about this catch-22 and be able to source actual data and experiences and results. I mean, I guess it is possible that it is just this easy, but, hmmmmmmmmmm.

Oh wait. Never mind. Nice White Parents. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/podcasts/nice-white-parents-serial.html

Could you say more about how you think the lessons of NWP applies in this circumstance?

I know there is the basic idea of a UMC parent wanting something more from the school, but beyond that I don’t see similarities. Eastern is not under-resourced. OP is not white, is neither attracted nor put-off by Eastern’s racial composition, is not wanting new programs. OP was concerned about the lack of achievement in a program the school already has and wanted reassurance that her kid could get a good education and successfully qualify for an IB diploma. She found the principal underwhelming and unable to give her that reassurance.

So what’s the answer? OP deciding not to worry about whether her child would actually end up with an IB diploma?

The answer the NWP poster alludes to is OP not having the gall to ask questions relating to the performance of Eastern's IB Diploma program of Mr. Brown in the first place. Subsequently, she should have avoided briefly reporting on the nature of her interaction with, and professional impressions of, him so as not to open herself up to attack.

Let's say she'd stuck to a script governed by avoidance, a failure to engage. In that case, what would have been achieved?

meh. Nice White Parents *actually attend* the school and annoy people with their anti-bologna sandwich campaigns. That is much different (and better) than OP, who just wants to publicly criticize a black principal at a school she doesn’t attend, based on a single conversation.

So higher income parents get bashed if they attend their low performing school and they get bashed if they decide not to attend. What exactly would make you happy. Would you prefer they just leave DCPS and go private? It does seem like no one here has an issue with private school parents but watch out if you are high income and highly educated and want to attend your local DCPS high school.

PP here. I think the parents attending schools have every right to organize however they want.

LOL. That was the main problem in “Nice White Parents” — new families showing up and the leading change according to their interests.

I guess you are not very familiar with the series you referenced?

Just because I can summarize the argument doesn’t mean I agree with it. I think “NWP” is an illegitimate and bad-faith racialized attack on parents sending their kids to the local schools. OP deciding to put a principal on blast (when she never went to the school) due to a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation is annoying and exhausting.

Fair enough on the first point (though unclear to me why you assume (almost) OP misunderstood anything).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


I’m very surprised that a parent wouldn’t expect the principal of a schools to focus on the students AT THE SCHOOL rather than trying to replace those students with different ones. What a bizarre expectation.


A principal should do both! If the IB students avoid the school, then the system—DCPS in this case—is not serving those students well. Same for all the schools that the OOB come from. It’s great that the system lets people lottery for different schools, but IB should be the default, or else the system has given up trying to make it’s schools not suck.

THIS. DCPS could put the effort in to create a high performing gen ed MS/HS in Capitol Hill but it hasn't. And it is always DCPS circular logic: Why should DCPS care about what IB families want when it's not the IB families at the school. Well, the IB families aren't at the school because the school doesn't care about what IB families want . . . .

I wish NPR or the NYT would do a series about this catch-22 and be able to source actual data and experiences and results. I mean, I guess it is possible that it is just this easy, but, hmmmmmmmmmm.

Oh wait. Never mind. Nice White Parents. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/podcasts/nice-white-parents-serial.html

Could you say more about how you think the lessons of NWP applies in this circumstance?

I know there is the basic idea of a UMC parent wanting something more from the school, but beyond that I don’t see similarities. Eastern is not under-resourced. OP is not white, is neither attracted nor put-off by Eastern’s racial composition, is not wanting new programs. OP was concerned about the lack of achievement in a program the school already has and wanted reassurance that her kid could get a good education and successfully qualify for an IB diploma. She found the principal underwhelming and unable to give her that reassurance.

So what’s the answer? OP deciding not to worry about whether her child would actually end up with an IB diploma?

I think your post is disingenuous, but I'll play.

Could you say more about how you think the lessons of NWP applies in this circumstance?

The lesson of NWP wasn't that those parents didn't want, or didn't have a right to want, a proximate school providing an excellent education. The point of the series was to explore what happens when schools try and fundamentally change to appease the expressed desired of NWP; what happens to school culture, whether those families will actually come in the near term and the long term engagement of those NWP. Seems like you maybe didn't listen tot NWP? Or weren't paying attention? Or came to it with such an agenda that your preconceptions could not be overcome.

Let's dig into your questions a bit, shall we?

I know there is the basic idea of a UMC parent wanting something more from the school, but beyond that I don’t see similarities.

Kind of “yada’yada’d” past that one didn’t you? As a rhetorical device it is genius to start with “accept for the part that it is germain, it isn’t germain.”

Eastern is not under-resourced.

Saying something with conviction does not make it true. The idea of resourcing in a school environment is really three different concepts: district funding, PTO funding and familial resources.
Let’s start with the fact that compared to JR it is dramatically under-resourced. While the per capita funding from DCPS is the same as JR, the PTO funding to close gaps is materially different. I don’t have an issue with JR PTO providing the things that the school cannot or does not. But it is gaslighting 101 to just pretend that isn’t the case. Finally, are you really going to argue that the familial resources at JR compared to Eastern are the same? Seriously? You are just going to pretend the supplementing that JR families do doesn’t exist? Again, I am not taking issue with their efforts and I too spend resources to support my kids. But I am responding to your “thoughtful” reply. If ignoring the PTO finding was gaslighting 101 then ignoring difference in familial resources is like a gaslighting masterclass.

OP is not white,

The concept of “nice white parents” is a turn of phrase used to describe UMC parents who want to change a school or think a school should be focused on them and not the kids it currently serves. “White” is a placeholder for entitlement. But you knew that and were just tryin to be cute.
is neither attracted nor put-off by Eastern’s racial composition,


You do not know this. You cannot know this. That aside, take a moment and realize you just typed "I don't see color". I call BS on anyone who claims to not see color. The challenge with DC public education is that for the most part low performing kids are minorities. That doesn't mean all black/brown kids are low performing, but the numbers are what they are. I take issue with the composition of 90+% kids at least one year behind grade level. Any parent of a high performing kid would. How you differentiate that from race is tough. And bringing this back to NWP, the objections of the NWP wasn't to the current minority populations but to the low performance and behavioral issues.

is not wanting new programs. OP was concerned about the lack of achievement in a program the school already has and wanted reassurance that her kid could get a good education and successfully qualify for an IB diploma.

Disingenuous, again. What OP seems to be saying is that the IB program isn't really a full fledged IB program. She seemed to be arguing it was a marketing move but that what was being offered wasn't true IB and as a consequence her kid wouldn't truly receive an IB education. That's probably fair. The idea, however, that she wasn't asking for a new program is at best disingenuous and factually incorrect. She was kicking tires on whether it was truly an IB program (she has that right). Her questions were designed to expose the weaknesses which she would want a plan to address to make her comfortable ending her kid there (she has that right). But these are very much questions and positioning about what deficiencies need to be closed for her to attend. See, NWP.
She got answers. What I hear from what she repeated is that Sah basically said, “Look. I have an IB program at a school of kids who for the most part can’t hack a true IB program. So my choice is to run it like a high end program and have no one participate or succeed or do the best with what I have. But no matter how many times you ask the same question I am not going to bash my kids and my school.” OP didn’t like that answer. Do you really not see how that is NWP wanting the admin to make the school and presentation about them and not the kids who are there?

She found the principal underwhelming and unable to give her that reassurance.

That is her right. But, again, do you not see the NWP analog? The idea being floated by OP and you and others is that if she had only been catered to and liked what she heard she would have sent her kid and her neighbors would have sent their kids and the school would be the next JR and a magical place. But what NWP illustrated is that even when admins took that approach, the behavior of the NWP trajectory of the school doesn’t follow what you and others are suggesting.

So what’s the answer? OP deciding not to worry about whether her child would actually end up with an IB diploma?

I see what you did there! This is another cute, disingenuous turn of phrase that is unrelated to the central issue of why or how NWP is apropos. The problem here is not that OP was worried about her kid. The problem is the lack of perspective you and others have in what the job of an admin is at a school that is one way when NWP want it to be something else.

One point that deserves addressing here: the resourcing.

In NWP, they talked about schools with broken toilets and other evidence of disrepair. School funding of that sort is not an issue here, thankfully.

For PTO funding, I don’t think PTO funding is a critical issue here either. PTO and non-profit contributions to DCPS or DCPCS HSs can add bells and whistles, but the DC funding is the main pot.

Family resources — financial, educational, advocacy — is a big deal! This is a fundamental issue, and it’s about need not race. Some schools succeed despite high family needs, but most don’t.

And lack of family resources is still separate from whether a school is or is not well-run.

But, still, what is the IBP-researcher mom supposed to do? Send her child to a school with the expectation that he will not receive a solid education?

How can the mom, or even the HS, solve this problem? Find the solution, and we can all stop haranguing each other.

Yet again, no one is suggesting that! (At least not on this thread and not me now). For the record I was also very vocal when DCUM was pounding on public officials who chose not to send their kids to Eastern (or other by right DCPS). They have that right and only they know what is best for their kids. You are changing the central question by continuing to suggest the issue with OP was that she chose another school. The issue I and others took was with her central thesis that the Principal should have been more concerned with her desires, needs and wants and that those are somehow more important (or even as important) as meeting the needs of the currently enrolled population. Do you see the difference?

I'm also a bit at a loss as to how you can gloss over PTSO funding. They raise 300k+ per year. That's about 2.5% of Eastern's total FY budget. That's not immaterial. I would remind you the reason this topic is even under discussion is not because I introduced it, but rather because Gaslighting Mommy/Daddy stated as a "fact" that there was no financial difference between JR and Eastern.

This is incorrect. There is no way the Wilson PTSO raises 300k per year. They don’t raise anything close to that.

And you are certain of this because you feel it in your gut so it must be true? Form 990s are public. 334k in 2020. 264k in 2019.

This is the part on DCUM where instead of going away quietly or admitting you were mistaken, you instead double down. Looking forward to hearing how "not even close to that" doesn't mean what we think it does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:what is the PTO argument about? If people think Eastern deserves PTO money, then they need to get the PTO fundraising parents to send their kids to Eastern.

Seem like you think "reading words" is hard? The PTSO fundraising was introduced in response to someone arguing with a straight face that the financial situations of JR and Eastern were identical.