So are some daycares and preschools planning on masking forever then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our preschool just informed us that they will be insisting on masking until the under 5s are vaccine eligible, due to parental paranoia.

Yeah I think this is one of those things that has become so hard to undo once started. The original directive to not mask under 2 for safety reasons never should have evolved into you-must-mask-at-age-2. I’d like to think the people responsible for this would have paused had they known how long this would go on. Maybe not. Many areas never adopted toddler masking to begin with but those that did just can’t seem to let it go.

Exactly. It's clear it's not about public health. It's like it's become part of some parents/preschools' identity. It struck me when we were visiting open houses for preschools that the way they talked about masking, they didn't talk about following public health guidance, they didn't say they'd stop masking when it was no longer recommended. They just said "we require masks, don't worry the children wear them better than adults! You should expect we'll require masks next year."

+1. It’s now some bizarre mental health crisis.

Yup. I'm the first PP up top. We need a mask-choice mandate (i.e., you cannot legally run a daycare or preschool and have a policy requiring masking) because these people will never let it go.

Ours is now mask optional, but of course with that string recommendation from DHHS to keep continue for unvaccinated kids, and virtually all parents made the choice to keep masking the kids. So while not a requirement, the parents seem to be taking that recommendation to heart. Last week, my 3yo was one of two kids in her class without a mask. This week she was the only one, and asked for a mask this morning. I’m not going to be that wacko parent forcing my kid to NOT wear one, and the benefits of no mask are diminished when she can’t see anyone else’s face anyway. I’m just rather dismayed that it’s going to be some flavor of this until the vaccine is authorized.

I am one of the PP's who posted about our MoCo daycare no longer requiring masks, and we're going through the same with 3yo DS. I sent him back without a mask the day the mandate was lifted, but all the other kids in his class were still wearing them, as were most of the teachers. While there doesn't seem to be any peer pressure or singling out as the only kid not wearing a mask, he has started to put stuff in his mouth and chew on his fingers, which he didn't have a habit of doing before. His teachers asked us to keep an eye on it; my guess is that he is adjusting to the feeling of *not* wearing a mask, and putting stuff in his mouth as a comfort strategy.

He said this AM he wanted to wear the mask again, so I sent him in with a few extras and told him to ask his teachers if he wanted to wear it. I guess it'll be more of an adjustment period than I anticipated.

Pretty much the same situation here. I’ve been asking him if he wants a mask in the morning, and he keeps saying yes. When we go to other places, like the grocery store, I don’t ask because I’m trying to make sure he understands that masks aren’t required.

I don’t really care if he wears a mask. There’s not really a benefit or harm to himself for wearing a mask. The benefit would be his teachers and classmates removing masks, which I acknowledge is their own choice. I do hope that everyone can collectively calm down over the next few weeks, but I’m concerned that the lack of a vaccine is a big mental block for a lot of parents.

COVID rates in Europe are going up, and the rates in wastewater here are starting to go up as well. The next few weeks will be very telling.

Didn’t Omicron demonstrate to people that even worst-case-scenarios really aren’t that bad? The level of risk isn't tied so much to case counts as it is virulence.

Omicron was less virulent than Delta, and about as virulent as Alpha. Alpha killed a lot of people with naïve immune systems, and so did Omicron. But deaths are only part of the story. The more we learn about the lasting impacts of the mild and moderate cases, the scarier it is. We might know for years the effects it can have on unvaccinated kids.

So before people on this thread treat fellow parents as irrational, accept that some of us may have different risk tolerances when it comes to our kids and novel diseases. Every time we have thrown caution to the wind cases have gone up, and it seems to be happening yet again. You can assume nothing with this virus or the going-forward efficacy of our vaccines. You can only judge in hindsight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our preschool just informed us that they will be insisting on masking until the under 5s are vaccine eligible, due to parental paranoia.

Yeah I think this is one of those things that has become so hard to undo once started. The original directive to not mask under 2 for safety reasons never should have evolved into you-must-mask-at-age-2. I’d like to think the people responsible for this would have paused had they known how long this would go on. Maybe not. Many areas never adopted toddler masking to begin with but those that did just can’t seem to let it go.

Exactly. It's clear it's not about public health. It's like it's become part of some parents/preschools' identity. It struck me when we were visiting open houses for preschools that the way they talked about masking, they didn't talk about following public health guidance, they didn't say they'd stop masking when it was no longer recommended. They just said "we require masks, don't worry the children wear them better than adults! You should expect we'll require masks next year."

+1. It’s now some bizarre mental health crisis.

Yup. I'm the first PP up top. We need a mask-choice mandate (i.e., you cannot legally run a daycare or preschool and have a policy requiring masking) because these people will never let it go.

Ours is now mask optional, but of course with that string recommendation from DHHS to keep continue for unvaccinated kids, and virtually all parents made the choice to keep masking the kids. So while not a requirement, the parents seem to be taking that recommendation to heart. Last week, my 3yo was one of two kids in her class without a mask. This week she was the only one, and asked for a mask this morning. I’m not going to be that wacko parent forcing my kid to NOT wear one, and the benefits of no mask are diminished when she can’t see anyone else’s face anyway. I’m just rather dismayed that it’s going to be some flavor of this until the vaccine is authorized.

I am one of the PP's who posted about our MoCo daycare no longer requiring masks, and we're going through the same with 3yo DS. I sent him back without a mask the day the mandate was lifted, but all the other kids in his class were still wearing them, as were most of the teachers. While there doesn't seem to be any peer pressure or singling out as the only kid not wearing a mask, he has started to put stuff in his mouth and chew on his fingers, which he didn't have a habit of doing before. His teachers asked us to keep an eye on it; my guess is that he is adjusting to the feeling of *not* wearing a mask, and putting stuff in his mouth as a comfort strategy.

He said this AM he wanted to wear the mask again, so I sent him in with a few extras and told him to ask his teachers if he wanted to wear it. I guess it'll be more of an adjustment period than I anticipated.

Pretty much the same situation here. I’ve been asking him if he wants a mask in the morning, and he keeps saying yes. When we go to other places, like the grocery store, I don’t ask because I’m trying to make sure he understands that masks aren’t required.

I don’t really care if he wears a mask. There’s not really a benefit or harm to himself for wearing a mask. The benefit would be his teachers and classmates removing masks, which I acknowledge is their own choice. I do hope that everyone can collectively calm down over the next few weeks, but I’m concerned that the lack of a vaccine is a big mental block for a lot of parents.

COVID rates in Europe are going up, and the rates in wastewater here are starting to go up as well. The next few weeks will be very telling.

Didn’t Omicron demonstrate to people that even worst-case-scenarios really aren’t that bad? The level of risk isn't tied so much to case counts as it is virulence.

Omicron was less virulent than Delta, and about as virulent as Alpha. Alpha killed a lot of people with naïve immune systems, and so did Omicron. But deaths are only part of the story. The more we learn about the lasting impacts of the mild and moderate cases, the scarier it is. We might know for years the effects it can have on unvaccinated kids.

So before people on this thread treat fellow parents as irrational, accept that some of us may have different risk tolerances when it comes to our kids and novel diseases. Every time we have thrown caution to the wind cases have gone up, and it seems to be happening yet again. You can assume nothing with this virus or the going-forward efficacy of our vaccines. You can only judge in hindsight.

Actually what’s scarier to me is that we don’t even know the lasting effects on vaccinated people who get mild cases. A year ago it seemed like once everyone could get vaccinated things would be fine but that seems more unknown now. This is why so many parents are still having their vaccinated school aged kids mask too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our preschool just informed us that they will be insisting on masking until the under 5s are vaccine eligible, due to parental paranoia.

Yeah I think this is one of those things that has become so hard to undo once started. The original directive to not mask under 2 for safety reasons never should have evolved into you-must-mask-at-age-2. I’d like to think the people responsible for this would have paused had they known how long this would go on. Maybe not. Many areas never adopted toddler masking to begin with but those that did just can’t seem to let it go.

Exactly. It's clear it's not about public health. It's like it's become part of some parents/preschools' identity. It struck me when we were visiting open houses for preschools that the way they talked about masking, they didn't talk about following public health guidance, they didn't say they'd stop masking when it was no longer recommended. They just said "we require masks, don't worry the children wear them better than adults! You should expect we'll require masks next year."

+1. It’s now some bizarre mental health crisis.

Yup. I'm the first PP up top. We need a mask-choice mandate (i.e., you cannot legally run a daycare or preschool and have a policy requiring masking) because these people will never let it go.

Ours is now mask optional, but of course with that string recommendation from DHHS to keep continue for unvaccinated kids, and virtually all parents made the choice to keep masking the kids. So while not a requirement, the parents seem to be taking that recommendation to heart. Last week, my 3yo was one of two kids in her class without a mask. This week she was the only one, and asked for a mask this morning. I’m not going to be that wacko parent forcing my kid to NOT wear one, and the benefits of no mask are diminished when she can’t see anyone else’s face anyway. I’m just rather dismayed that it’s going to be some flavor of this until the vaccine is authorized.

I am one of the PP's who posted about our MoCo daycare no longer requiring masks, and we're going through the same with 3yo DS. I sent him back without a mask the day the mandate was lifted, but all the other kids in his class were still wearing them, as were most of the teachers. While there doesn't seem to be any peer pressure or singling out as the only kid not wearing a mask, he has started to put stuff in his mouth and chew on his fingers, which he didn't have a habit of doing before. His teachers asked us to keep an eye on it; my guess is that he is adjusting to the feeling of *not* wearing a mask, and putting stuff in his mouth as a comfort strategy.

He said this AM he wanted to wear the mask again, so I sent him in with a few extras and told him to ask his teachers if he wanted to wear it. I guess it'll be more of an adjustment period than I anticipated.

Pretty much the same situation here. I’ve been asking him if he wants a mask in the morning, and he keeps saying yes. When we go to other places, like the grocery store, I don’t ask because I’m trying to make sure he understands that masks aren’t required.

I don’t really care if he wears a mask. There’s not really a benefit or harm to himself for wearing a mask. The benefit would be his teachers and classmates removing masks, which I acknowledge is their own choice. I do hope that everyone can collectively calm down over the next few weeks, but I’m concerned that the lack of a vaccine is a big mental block for a lot of parents.

COVID rates in Europe are going up, and the rates in wastewater here are starting to go up as well. The next few weeks will be very telling.

Didn’t Omicron demonstrate to people that even worst-case-scenarios really aren’t that bad? The level of risk isn't tied so much to case counts as it is virulence.

Omicron was less virulent than Delta, and about as virulent as Alpha. Alpha killed a lot of people with naïve immune systems, and so did Omicron. But deaths are only part of the story. The more we learn about the lasting impacts of the mild and moderate cases, the scarier it is. We might know for years the effects it can have on unvaccinated kids.

So before people on this thread treat fellow parents as irrational, accept that some of us may have different risk tolerances when it comes to our kids and novel diseases. Every time we have thrown caution to the wind cases have gone up, and it seems to be happening yet again. You can assume nothing with this virus or the going-forward efficacy of our vaccines. You can only judge in hindsight.

Cases go up because of new variant, weather forcing people indoors and other factors that scientists don't fully understand. Living in perpetual crisis mode thinking we can prevent the next surge is just going to further strain our grossly inadequate mental health system. People having psychiatric crises already strain hospitals enough

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our preschool just informed us that they will be insisting on masking until the under 5s are vaccine eligible, due to parental paranoia.

Yeah I think this is one of those things that has become so hard to undo once started. The original directive to not mask under 2 for safety reasons never should have evolved into you-must-mask-at-age-2. I’d like to think the people responsible for this would have paused had they known how long this would go on. Maybe not. Many areas never adopted toddler masking to begin with but those that did just can’t seem to let it go.

Exactly. It's clear it's not about public health. It's like it's become part of some parents/preschools' identity. It struck me when we were visiting open houses for preschools that the way they talked about masking, they didn't talk about following public health guidance, they didn't say they'd stop masking when it was no longer recommended. They just said "we require masks, don't worry the children wear them better than adults! You should expect we'll require masks next year."

+1. It’s now some bizarre mental health crisis.

Yup. I'm the first PP up top. We need a mask-choice mandate (i.e., you cannot legally run a daycare or preschool and have a policy requiring masking) because these people will never let it go.

Ours is now mask optional, but of course with that string recommendation from DHHS to keep continue for unvaccinated kids, and virtually all parents made the choice to keep masking the kids. So while not a requirement, the parents seem to be taking that recommendation to heart. Last week, my 3yo was one of two kids in her class without a mask. This week she was the only one, and asked for a mask this morning. I’m not going to be that wacko parent forcing my kid to NOT wear one, and the benefits of no mask are diminished when she can’t see anyone else’s face anyway. I’m just rather dismayed that it’s going to be some flavor of this until the vaccine is authorized.

I am one of the PP's who posted about our MoCo daycare no longer requiring masks, and we're going through the same with 3yo DS. I sent him back without a mask the day the mandate was lifted, but all the other kids in his class were still wearing them, as were most of the teachers. While there doesn't seem to be any peer pressure or singling out as the only kid not wearing a mask, he has started to put stuff in his mouth and chew on his fingers, which he didn't have a habit of doing before. His teachers asked us to keep an eye on it; my guess is that he is adjusting to the feeling of *not* wearing a mask, and putting stuff in his mouth as a comfort strategy.

He said this AM he wanted to wear the mask again, so I sent him in with a few extras and told him to ask his teachers if he wanted to wear it. I guess it'll be more of an adjustment period than I anticipated.

Pretty much the same situation here. I’ve been asking him if he wants a mask in the morning, and he keeps saying yes. When we go to other places, like the grocery store, I don’t ask because I’m trying to make sure he understands that masks aren’t required.

I don’t really care if he wears a mask. There’s not really a benefit or harm to himself for wearing a mask. The benefit would be his teachers and classmates removing masks, which I acknowledge is their own choice. I do hope that everyone can collectively calm down over the next few weeks, but I’m concerned that the lack of a vaccine is a big mental block for a lot of parents.

COVID rates in Europe are going up, and the rates in wastewater here are starting to go up as well. The next few weeks will be very telling.

Didn’t Omicron demonstrate to people that even worst-case-scenarios really aren’t that bad? The level of risk isn't tied so much to case counts as it is virulence.

Omicron was less virulent than Delta, and about as virulent as Alpha. Alpha killed a lot of people with naïve immune systems, and so did Omicron. But deaths are only part of the story. The more we learn about the lasting impacts of the mild and moderate cases, the scarier it is. We might know for years the effects it can have on unvaccinated kids.

So before people on this thread treat fellow parents as irrational, accept that some of us may have different risk tolerances when it comes to our kids and novel diseases. Every time we have thrown caution to the wind cases have gone up, and it seems to be happening yet again. You can assume nothing with this virus or the going-forward efficacy of our vaccines. You can only judge in hindsight.

I'm sympathetic to this concern, but my question would be what exactly are you waiting for? Vaccinated people including 5+ children also get mild cases that could turn out to be something more years down the road - and so far, there isn't an effective vaccine for 0-5 year olds. Whatever vaccine is ultimately approved for this age group (if one is), is likely to be insufficient to prevent cases in small kids.

It feels like we have a choice between the here and now negative effects of years of pandemic restrictions on children during critical development years. Or a future unknown health issue. I know we as parents would choose "neither" if we could, but for me as a parent, I'm much more concerned about the here and now impact on my child versus the future unknown. I trust that if almost every child will ultimately get Covid, by the time they are adults dealing with a surprise long-term effect, the science will be there to treat them.

It sometimes feels like the "some of us will do anything to protect our children" argument, besides being a bit insulting (of course we all want to protect our kids), is really about parents being unwilling to accept the imperfect choices before them. There is no way to 100% protect you kid and we need to stop pretending there is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our preschool just informed us that they will be insisting on masking until the under 5s are vaccine eligible, due to parental paranoia.

Yeah I think this is one of those things that has become so hard to undo once started. The original directive to not mask under 2 for safety reasons never should have evolved into you-must-mask-at-age-2. I’d like to think the people responsible for this would have paused had they known how long this would go on. Maybe not. Many areas never adopted toddler masking to begin with but those that did just can’t seem to let it go.

Exactly. It's clear it's not about public health. It's like it's become part of some parents/preschools' identity. It struck me when we were visiting open houses for preschools that the way they talked about masking, they didn't talk about following public health guidance, they didn't say they'd stop masking when it was no longer recommended. They just said "we require masks, don't worry the children wear them better than adults! You should expect we'll require masks next year."

+1. It’s now some bizarre mental health crisis.

Yup. I'm the first PP up top. We need a mask-choice mandate (i.e., you cannot legally run a daycare or preschool and have a policy requiring masking) because these people will never let it go.

Ours is now mask optional, but of course with that string recommendation from DHHS to keep continue for unvaccinated kids, and virtually all parents made the choice to keep masking the kids. So while not a requirement, the parents seem to be taking that recommendation to heart. Last week, my 3yo was one of two kids in her class without a mask. This week she was the only one, and asked for a mask this morning. I’m not going to be that wacko parent forcing my kid to NOT wear one, and the benefits of no mask are diminished when she can’t see anyone else’s face anyway. I’m just rather dismayed that it’s going to be some flavor of this until the vaccine is authorized.

I am one of the PP's who posted about our MoCo daycare no longer requiring masks, and we're going through the same with 3yo DS. I sent him back without a mask the day the mandate was lifted, but all the other kids in his class were still wearing them, as were most of the teachers. While there doesn't seem to be any peer pressure or singling out as the only kid not wearing a mask, he has started to put stuff in his mouth and chew on his fingers, which he didn't have a habit of doing before. His teachers asked us to keep an eye on it; my guess is that he is adjusting to the feeling of *not* wearing a mask, and putting stuff in his mouth as a comfort strategy.

He said this AM he wanted to wear the mask again, so I sent him in with a few extras and told him to ask his teachers if he wanted to wear it. I guess it'll be more of an adjustment period than I anticipated.

Pretty much the same situation here. I’ve been asking him if he wants a mask in the morning, and he keeps saying yes. When we go to other places, like the grocery store, I don’t ask because I’m trying to make sure he understands that masks aren’t required.

I don’t really care if he wears a mask. There’s not really a benefit or harm to himself for wearing a mask. The benefit would be his teachers and classmates removing masks, which I acknowledge is their own choice. I do hope that everyone can collectively calm down over the next few weeks, but I’m concerned that the lack of a vaccine is a big mental block for a lot of parents.

COVID rates in Europe are going up, and the rates in wastewater here are starting to go up as well. The next few weeks will be very telling.

Didn’t Omicron demonstrate to people that even worst-case-scenarios really aren’t that bad? The level of risk isn't tied so much to case counts as it is virulence.

Omicron was less virulent than Delta, and about as virulent as Alpha. Alpha killed a lot of people with naïve immune systems, and so did Omicron. But deaths are only part of the story. The more we learn about the lasting impacts of the mild and moderate cases, the scarier it is. We might know for years the effects it can have on unvaccinated kids.

So before people on this thread treat fellow parents as irrational, accept that some of us may have different risk tolerances when it comes to our kids and novel diseases. Every time we have thrown caution to the wind cases have gone up, and it seems to be happening yet again. You can assume nothing with this virus or the going-forward efficacy of our vaccines. You can only judge in hindsight.

I'm sympathetic to this concern, but my question would be what exactly are you waiting for? Vaccinated people including 5+ children also get mild cases that could turn out to be something more years down the road - and so far, there isn't an effective vaccine for 0-5 year olds. Whatever vaccine is ultimately approved for this age group (if one is), is likely to be insufficient to prevent cases in small kids.

It feels like we have a choice between the here and now negative effects of years of pandemic restrictions on children during critical development years. Or a future unknown health issue. I know we as parents would choose "neither" if we could, but for me as a parent, I'm much more concerned about the here and now impact on my child versus the future unknown. I trust that if almost every child will ultimately get Covid, by the time they are adults dealing with a surprise long-term effect, the science will be there to treat them.

It sometimes feels like the "some of us will do anything to protect our children" argument, besides being a bit insulting (of course we all want to protect our kids), is really about parents being unwilling to accept the imperfect choices before them. There is no way to 100% protect you kid and we need to stop pretending there is.

+1 My child has developed severe anxiety, which she was prone to genetically but most certainly made worse by the pandemic. I have to prioritize treating the illness she has now, not a potential illness that is likely to be very mild for her and which there's not good evidence yet (doesn't mean it won't) cause long term effects in children in a broad scale.

https://journals.lww.com/pidj/fulltext/2021/12000/how_common_is_long_covid_in_children_and.20.aspx

In light of the large number of children and adolescents infected with SARS-CoV-2, the impact of even a low prevalence of persisting symptoms will be considerable. However, in the majority of studies, symptoms did not persist longer than 12 weeks.33–35,41 Consistent with this, 1 study that did find a difference between cases and controls in persisting symptoms (at 4 weeks post COVID) reported that by 8 weeks, most symptoms had resolved, suggesting long COVID might be less of a concern in children and adolescents than in adults.35 Interestingly in one study, more than half of adolescents in the uninfected control group reported symptoms at 12 weeks despite only 8% reporting symptoms at the time of testing for SARS-CoV-2.37

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our preschool just informed us that they will be insisting on masking until the under 5s are vaccine eligible, due to parental paranoia.

Yeah I think this is one of those things that has become so hard to undo once started. The original directive to not mask under 2 for safety reasons never should have evolved into you-must-mask-at-age-2. I’d like to think the people responsible for this would have paused had they known how long this would go on. Maybe not. Many areas never adopted toddler masking to begin with but those that did just can’t seem to let it go.

Exactly. It's clear it's not about public health. It's like it's become part of some parents/preschools' identity. It struck me when we were visiting open houses for preschools that the way they talked about masking, they didn't talk about following public health guidance, they didn't say they'd stop masking when it was no longer recommended. They just said "we require masks, don't worry the children wear them better than adults! You should expect we'll require masks next year."

+1. It’s now some bizarre mental health crisis.

Yup. I'm the first PP up top. We need a mask-choice mandate (i.e., you cannot legally run a daycare or preschool and have a policy requiring masking) because these people will never let it go.

Ours is now mask optional, but of course with that string recommendation from DHHS to keep continue for unvaccinated kids, and virtually all parents made the choice to keep masking the kids. So while not a requirement, the parents seem to be taking that recommendation to heart. Last week, my 3yo was one of two kids in her class without a mask. This week she was the only one, and asked for a mask this morning. I’m not going to be that wacko parent forcing my kid to NOT wear one, and the benefits of no mask are diminished when she can’t see anyone else’s face anyway. I’m just rather dismayed that it’s going to be some flavor of this until the vaccine is authorized.

I am one of the PP's who posted about our MoCo daycare no longer requiring masks, and we're going through the same with 3yo DS. I sent him back without a mask the day the mandate was lifted, but all the other kids in his class were still wearing them, as were most of the teachers. While there doesn't seem to be any peer pressure or singling out as the only kid not wearing a mask, he has started to put stuff in his mouth and chew on his fingers, which he didn't have a habit of doing before. His teachers asked us to keep an eye on it; my guess is that he is adjusting to the feeling of *not* wearing a mask, and putting stuff in his mouth as a comfort strategy.

He said this AM he wanted to wear the mask again, so I sent him in with a few extras and told him to ask his teachers if he wanted to wear it. I guess it'll be more of an adjustment period than I anticipated.

Pretty much the same situation here. I’ve been asking him if he wants a mask in the morning, and he keeps saying yes. When we go to other places, like the grocery store, I don’t ask because I’m trying to make sure he understands that masks aren’t required.

I don’t really care if he wears a mask. There’s not really a benefit or harm to himself for wearing a mask. The benefit would be his teachers and classmates removing masks, which I acknowledge is their own choice. I do hope that everyone can collectively calm down over the next few weeks, but I’m concerned that the lack of a vaccine is a big mental block for a lot of parents.

COVID rates in Europe are going up, and the rates in wastewater here are starting to go up as well. The next few weeks will be very telling.

Didn’t Omicron demonstrate to people that even worst-case-scenarios really aren’t that bad? The level of risk isn't tied so much to case counts as it is virulence.

Omicron was less virulent than Delta, and about as virulent as Alpha. Alpha killed a lot of people with naïve immune systems, and so did Omicron. But deaths are only part of the story. The more we learn about the lasting impacts of the mild and moderate cases, the scarier it is. We might know for years the effects it can have on unvaccinated kids.

So before people on this thread treat fellow parents as irrational, accept that some of us may have different risk tolerances when it comes to our kids and novel diseases. Every time we have thrown caution to the wind cases have gone up, and it seems to be happening yet again. You can assume nothing with this virus or the going-forward efficacy of our vaccines. You can only judge in hindsight.

I'm sympathetic to this concern, but my question would be what exactly are you waiting for? Vaccinated people including 5+ children also get mild cases that could turn out to be something more years down the road - and so far, there isn't an effective vaccine for 0-5 year olds. Whatever vaccine is ultimately approved for this age group (if one is), is likely to be insufficient to prevent cases in small kids.

It feels like we have a choice between the here and now negative effects of years of pandemic restrictions on children during critical development years. Or a future unknown health issue. I know we as parents would choose "neither" if we could, but for me as a parent, I'm much more concerned about the here and now impact on my child versus the future unknown. I trust that if almost every child will ultimately get Covid, by the time they are adults dealing with a surprise long-term effect, the science will be there to treat them.

It sometimes feels like the "some of us will do anything to protect our children" argument, besides being a bit insulting (of course we all want to protect our kids), is really about parents being unwilling to accept the imperfect choices before them. There is no way to 100% protect you kid and we need to stop pretending there is.

My kid isn’t suffering any “here and now” effects. Everything is right on track. The one who is suffering some delays isn’t masked and isn’t around people who are. It’s just how that kid was made. So, for us, the risk of COVID, whether from the illness itself or the incredibly disruptive effect the isolations and quarantines will have when we’re already at the end of our ropes, outweighs everything else.

And let’s be clear- COVID is back. The trends in Europe have borne out here almost every time and they’re showing a noticeable surge again. When it comes to kids and severity, past performance is no guarantee of future results. I’m not quite ready to let it rip and a lot of parents aren’t, either.

Now, if all the daycares want to change their policy to let kids go back 24 hours after any fever breaks, I’m all for it. Right now I have to do what it takes to keep my family together. If masks show a 20% reduction in transmission, I’ll take it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our preschool just informed us that they will be insisting on masking until the under 5s are vaccine eligible, due to parental paranoia.

Yeah I think this is one of those things that has become so hard to undo once started. The original directive to not mask under 2 for safety reasons never should have evolved into you-must-mask-at-age-2. I’d like to think the people responsible for this would have paused had they known how long this would go on. Maybe not. Many areas never adopted toddler masking to begin with but those that did just can’t seem to let it go.

Exactly. It's clear it's not about public health. It's like it's become part of some parents/preschools' identity. It struck me when we were visiting open houses for preschools that the way they talked about masking, they didn't talk about following public health guidance, they didn't say they'd stop masking when it was no longer recommended. They just said "we require masks, don't worry the children wear them better than adults! You should expect we'll require masks next year."

+1. It’s now some bizarre mental health crisis.

Yup. I'm the first PP up top. We need a mask-choice mandate (i.e., you cannot legally run a daycare or preschool and have a policy requiring masking) because these people will never let it go.

Ours is now mask optional, but of course with that string recommendation from DHHS to keep continue for unvaccinated kids, and virtually all parents made the choice to keep masking the kids. So while not a requirement, the parents seem to be taking that recommendation to heart. Last week, my 3yo was one of two kids in her class without a mask. This week she was the only one, and asked for a mask this morning. I’m not going to be that wacko parent forcing my kid to NOT wear one, and the benefits of no mask are diminished when she can’t see anyone else’s face anyway. I’m just rather dismayed that it’s going to be some flavor of this until the vaccine is authorized.

I am one of the PP's who posted about our MoCo daycare no longer requiring masks, and we're going through the same with 3yo DS. I sent him back without a mask the day the mandate was lifted, but all the other kids in his class were still wearing them, as were most of the teachers. While there doesn't seem to be any peer pressure or singling out as the only kid not wearing a mask, he has started to put stuff in his mouth and chew on his fingers, which he didn't have a habit of doing before. His teachers asked us to keep an eye on it; my guess is that he is adjusting to the feeling of *not* wearing a mask, and putting stuff in his mouth as a comfort strategy.

He said this AM he wanted to wear the mask again, so I sent him in with a few extras and told him to ask his teachers if he wanted to wear it. I guess it'll be more of an adjustment period than I anticipated.

Pretty much the same situation here. I’ve been asking him if he wants a mask in the morning, and he keeps saying yes. When we go to other places, like the grocery store, I don’t ask because I’m trying to make sure he understands that masks aren’t required.

I don’t really care if he wears a mask. There’s not really a benefit or harm to himself for wearing a mask. The benefit would be his teachers and classmates removing masks, which I acknowledge is their own choice. I do hope that everyone can collectively calm down over the next few weeks, but I’m concerned that the lack of a vaccine is a big mental block for a lot of parents.

COVID rates in Europe are going up, and the rates in wastewater here are starting to go up as well. The next few weeks will be very telling.

Didn’t Omicron demonstrate to people that even worst-case-scenarios really aren’t that bad? The level of risk isn't tied so much to case counts as it is virulence.

Omicron was less virulent than Delta, and about as virulent as Alpha. Alpha killed a lot of people with naïve immune systems, and so did Omicron. But deaths are only part of the story. The more we learn about the lasting impacts of the mild and moderate cases, the scarier it is. We might know for years the effects it can have on unvaccinated kids.

So before people on this thread treat fellow parents as irrational, accept that some of us may have different risk tolerances when it comes to our kids and novel diseases. Every time we have thrown caution to the wind cases have gone up, and it seems to be happening yet again. You can assume nothing with this virus or the going-forward efficacy of our vaccines. You can only judge in hindsight.

I'm sympathetic to this concern, but my question would be what exactly are you waiting for? Vaccinated people including 5+ children also get mild cases that could turn out to be something more years down the road - and so far, there isn't an effective vaccine for 0-5 year olds. Whatever vaccine is ultimately approved for this age group (if one is), is likely to be insufficient to prevent cases in small kids.

It feels like we have a choice between the here and now negative effects of years of pandemic restrictions on children during critical development years. Or a future unknown health issue. I know we as parents would choose "neither" if we could, but for me as a parent, I'm much more concerned about the here and now impact on my child versus the future unknown. I trust that if almost every child will ultimately get Covid, by the time they are adults dealing with a surprise long-term effect, the science will be there to treat them.

It sometimes feels like the "some of us will do anything to protect our children" argument, besides being a bit insulting (of course we all want to protect our kids), is really about parents being unwilling to accept the imperfect choices before them. There is no way to 100% protect you kid and we need to stop pretending there is.

My kid isn’t suffering any “here and now” effects. Everything is right on track. The one who is suffering some delays isn’t masked and isn’t around people who are. It’s just how that kid was made. So, for us, the risk of COVID, whether from the illness itself or the incredibly disruptive effect the isolations and quarantines will have when we’re already at the end of our ropes, outweighs everything else.

And let’s be clear- COVID is back. The trends in Europe have borne out here almost every time and they’re showing a noticeable surge again. When it comes to kids and severity, past performance is no guarantee of future results. I’m not quite ready to let it rip and a lot of parents aren’t, either.

Now, if all the daycares want to change their policy to let kids go back 24 hours after any fever breaks, I’m all for it. Right now I have to do what it takes to keep my family together. If masks show a 20% reduction in transmission, I’ll take it.

Masks worn in early childhood settings do not show a 20% reduction in transmission. That's hilarious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our preschool just informed us that they will be insisting on masking until the under 5s are vaccine eligible, due to parental paranoia.

Yeah I think this is one of those things that has become so hard to undo once started. The original directive to not mask under 2 for safety reasons never should have evolved into you-must-mask-at-age-2. I’d like to think the people responsible for this would have paused had they known how long this would go on. Maybe not. Many areas never adopted toddler masking to begin with but those that did just can’t seem to let it go.

Exactly. It's clear it's not about public health. It's like it's become part of some parents/preschools' identity. It struck me when we were visiting open houses for preschools that the way they talked about masking, they didn't talk about following public health guidance, they didn't say they'd stop masking when it was no longer recommended. They just said "we require masks, don't worry the children wear them better than adults! You should expect we'll require masks next year."

+1. It’s now some bizarre mental health crisis.

Yup. I'm the first PP up top. We need a mask-choice mandate (i.e., you cannot legally run a daycare or preschool and have a policy requiring masking) because these people will never let it go.

Ours is now mask optional, but of course with that string recommendation from DHHS to keep continue for unvaccinated kids, and virtually all parents made the choice to keep masking the kids. So while not a requirement, the parents seem to be taking that recommendation to heart. Last week, my 3yo was one of two kids in her class without a mask. This week she was the only one, and asked for a mask this morning. I’m not going to be that wacko parent forcing my kid to NOT wear one, and the benefits of no mask are diminished when she can’t see anyone else’s face anyway. I’m just rather dismayed that it’s going to be some flavor of this until the vaccine is authorized.

I am one of the PP's who posted about our MoCo daycare no longer requiring masks, and we're going through the same with 3yo DS. I sent him back without a mask the day the mandate was lifted, but all the other kids in his class were still wearing them, as were most of the teachers. While there doesn't seem to be any peer pressure or singling out as the only kid not wearing a mask, he has started to put stuff in his mouth and chew on his fingers, which he didn't have a habit of doing before. His teachers asked us to keep an eye on it; my guess is that he is adjusting to the feeling of *not* wearing a mask, and putting stuff in his mouth as a comfort strategy.

He said this AM he wanted to wear the mask again, so I sent him in with a few extras and told him to ask his teachers if he wanted to wear it. I guess it'll be more of an adjustment period than I anticipated.

Pretty much the same situation here. I’ve been asking him if he wants a mask in the morning, and he keeps saying yes. When we go to other places, like the grocery store, I don’t ask because I’m trying to make sure he understands that masks aren’t required.

I don’t really care if he wears a mask. There’s not really a benefit or harm to himself for wearing a mask. The benefit would be his teachers and classmates removing masks, which I acknowledge is their own choice. I do hope that everyone can collectively calm down over the next few weeks, but I’m concerned that the lack of a vaccine is a big mental block for a lot of parents.

COVID rates in Europe are going up, and the rates in wastewater here are starting to go up as well. The next few weeks will be very telling.

Didn’t Omicron demonstrate to people that even worst-case-scenarios really aren’t that bad? The level of risk isn't tied so much to case counts as it is virulence.

Omicron was less virulent than Delta, and about as virulent as Alpha. Alpha killed a lot of people with naïve immune systems, and so did Omicron. But deaths are only part of the story. The more we learn about the lasting impacts of the mild and moderate cases, the scarier it is. We might know for years the effects it can have on unvaccinated kids.

So before people on this thread treat fellow parents as irrational, accept that some of us may have different risk tolerances when it comes to our kids and novel diseases. Every time we have thrown caution to the wind cases have gone up, and it seems to be happening yet again. You can assume nothing with this virus or the going-forward efficacy of our vaccines. You can only judge in hindsight.

I'm sympathetic to this concern, but my question would be what exactly are you waiting for? Vaccinated people including 5+ children also get mild cases that could turn out to be something more years down the road - and so far, there isn't an effective vaccine for 0-5 year olds. Whatever vaccine is ultimately approved for this age group (if one is), is likely to be insufficient to prevent cases in small kids.

It feels like we have a choice between the here and now negative effects of years of pandemic restrictions on children during critical development years. Or a future unknown health issue. I know we as parents would choose "neither" if we could, but for me as a parent, I'm much more concerned about the here and now impact on my child versus the future unknown. I trust that if almost every child will ultimately get Covid, by the time they are adults dealing with a surprise long-term effect, the science will be there to treat them.

It sometimes feels like the "some of us will do anything to protect our children" argument, besides being a bit insulting (of course we all want to protect our kids), is really about parents being unwilling to accept the imperfect choices before them. There is no way to 100% protect you kid and we need to stop pretending there is.

My kid isn’t suffering any “here and now” effects. Everything is right on track. The one who is suffering some delays isn’t masked and isn’t around people who are. It’s just how that kid was made. So, for us, the risk of COVID, whether from the illness itself or the incredibly disruptive effect the isolations and quarantines will have when we’re already at the end of our ropes, outweighs everything else.

And let’s be clear- COVID is back. The trends in Europe have borne out here almost every time and they’re showing a noticeable surge again. When it comes to kids and severity, past performance is no guarantee of future results. I’m not quite ready to let it rip and a lot of parents aren’t, either.

Now, if all the daycares want to change their policy to let kids go back 24 hours after any fever breaks, I’m all for it. Right now I have to do what it takes to keep my family together. If masks show a 20% reduction in transmission, I’ll take it.

Masks worn in early childhood settings do not show a 20% reduction in transmission. That's hilarious.

Right- although few can be bothered to study this because the results wouldn't jive with the masking rules of the last two years. The only study I've seen was from Spain.

But I agree that no masks while still having long quarantines and exclusion for things like a runny nose is problematic. When there is no tolerance for a simple cold or allergies then its no wonder parents keep masking the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our preschool just informed us that they will be insisting on masking until the under 5s are vaccine eligible, due to parental paranoia.

Yeah I think this is one of those things that has become so hard to undo once started. The original directive to not mask under 2 for safety reasons never should have evolved into you-must-mask-at-age-2. I’d like to think the people responsible for this would have paused had they known how long this would go on. Maybe not. Many areas never adopted toddler masking to begin with but those that did just can’t seem to let it go.

Exactly. It's clear it's not about public health. It's like it's become part of some parents/preschools' identity. It struck me when we were visiting open houses for preschools that the way they talked about masking, they didn't talk about following public health guidance, they didn't say they'd stop masking when it was no longer recommended. They just said "we require masks, don't worry the children wear them better than adults! You should expect we'll require masks next year."

+1. It’s now some bizarre mental health crisis.

Yup. I'm the first PP up top. We need a mask-choice mandate (i.e., you cannot legally run a daycare or preschool and have a policy requiring masking) because these people will never let it go.

Ours is now mask optional, but of course with that string recommendation from DHHS to keep continue for unvaccinated kids, and virtually all parents made the choice to keep masking the kids. So while not a requirement, the parents seem to be taking that recommendation to heart. Last week, my 3yo was one of two kids in her class without a mask. This week she was the only one, and asked for a mask this morning. I’m not going to be that wacko parent forcing my kid to NOT wear one, and the benefits of no mask are diminished when she can’t see anyone else’s face anyway. I’m just rather dismayed that it’s going to be some flavor of this until the vaccine is authorized.

I am one of the PP's who posted about our MoCo daycare no longer requiring masks, and we're going through the same with 3yo DS. I sent him back without a mask the day the mandate was lifted, but all the other kids in his class were still wearing them, as were most of the teachers. While there doesn't seem to be any peer pressure or singling out as the only kid not wearing a mask, he has started to put stuff in his mouth and chew on his fingers, which he didn't have a habit of doing before. His teachers asked us to keep an eye on it; my guess is that he is adjusting to the feeling of *not* wearing a mask, and putting stuff in his mouth as a comfort strategy.

He said this AM he wanted to wear the mask again, so I sent him in with a few extras and told him to ask his teachers if he wanted to wear it. I guess it'll be more of an adjustment period than I anticipated.

Pretty much the same situation here. I’ve been asking him if he wants a mask in the morning, and he keeps saying yes. When we go to other places, like the grocery store, I don’t ask because I’m trying to make sure he understands that masks aren’t required.

I don’t really care if he wears a mask. There’s not really a benefit or harm to himself for wearing a mask. The benefit would be his teachers and classmates removing masks, which I acknowledge is their own choice. I do hope that everyone can collectively calm down over the next few weeks, but I’m concerned that the lack of a vaccine is a big mental block for a lot of parents.

COVID rates in Europe are going up, and the rates in wastewater here are starting to go up as well. The next few weeks will be very telling.

Didn’t Omicron demonstrate to people that even worst-case-scenarios really aren’t that bad? The level of risk isn't tied so much to case counts as it is virulence.

Omicron was less virulent than Delta, and about as virulent as Alpha. Alpha killed a lot of people with naïve immune systems, and so did Omicron. But deaths are only part of the story. The more we learn about the lasting impacts of the mild and moderate cases, the scarier it is. We might know for years the effects it can have on unvaccinated kids.

So before people on this thread treat fellow parents as irrational, accept that some of us may have different risk tolerances when it comes to our kids and novel diseases. Every time we have thrown caution to the wind cases have gone up, and it seems to be happening yet again. You can assume nothing with this virus or the going-forward efficacy of our vaccines. You can only judge in hindsight.

I'm sympathetic to this concern, but my question would be what exactly are you waiting for? Vaccinated people including 5+ children also get mild cases that could turn out to be something more years down the road - and so far, there isn't an effective vaccine for 0-5 year olds. Whatever vaccine is ultimately approved for this age group (if one is), is likely to be insufficient to prevent cases in small kids.

It feels like we have a choice between the here and now negative effects of years of pandemic restrictions on children during critical development years. Or a future unknown health issue. I know we as parents would choose "neither" if we could, but for me as a parent, I'm much more concerned about the here and now impact on my child versus the future unknown. I trust that if almost every child will ultimately get Covid, by the time they are adults dealing with a surprise long-term effect, the science will be there to treat them.

It sometimes feels like the "some of us will do anything to protect our children" argument, besides being a bit insulting (of course we all want to protect our kids), is really about parents being unwilling to accept the imperfect choices before them. There is no way to 100% protect you kid and we need to stop pretending there is.

My kid isn’t suffering any “here and now” effects. Everything is right on track. The one who is suffering some delays isn’t masked and isn’t around people who are. It’s just how that kid was made. So, for us, the risk of COVID, whether from the illness itself or the incredibly disruptive effect the isolations and quarantines will have when we’re already at the end of our ropes, outweighs everything else.

And let’s be clear- COVID is back. The trends in Europe have borne out here almost every time and they’re showing a noticeable surge again. When it comes to kids and severity, past performance is no guarantee of future results. I’m not quite ready to let it rip and a lot of parents aren’t, either.

Now, if all the daycares want to change their policy to let kids go back 24 hours after any fever breaks, I’m all for it. Right now I have to do what it takes to keep my family together. If masks show a 20% reduction in transmission, I’ll take it.

Masks worn in early childhood settings do not show a 20% reduction in transmission. That's hilarious.

Listen, we don’t know how effective they are in practice against COVID. But masking is associated with fewer disruptions.

And speaking of disruptions, I’m not sure this house can handle all the usual winter illnesses on top of multiple bouts of COVID. All the masking and sanitation theater may not be all that effective for COVID, but it has been very effective for all the other usual stuff. My kids will pick up enough crap to keep their immune systems healthy, I don’t need to pile on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our preschool just informed us that they will be insisting on masking until the under 5s are vaccine eligible, due to parental paranoia.

Yeah I think this is one of those things that has become so hard to undo once started. The original directive to not mask under 2 for safety reasons never should have evolved into you-must-mask-at-age-2. I’d like to think the people responsible for this would have paused had they known how long this would go on. Maybe not. Many areas never adopted toddler masking to begin with but those that did just can’t seem to let it go.

Exactly. It's clear it's not about public health. It's like it's become part of some parents/preschools' identity. It struck me when we were visiting open houses for preschools that the way they talked about masking, they didn't talk about following public health guidance, they didn't say they'd stop masking when it was no longer recommended. They just said "we require masks, don't worry the children wear them better than adults! You should expect we'll require masks next year."

+1. It’s now some bizarre mental health crisis.

Yup. I'm the first PP up top. We need a mask-choice mandate (i.e., you cannot legally run a daycare or preschool and have a policy requiring masking) because these people will never let it go.

Ours is now mask optional, but of course with that string recommendation from DHHS to keep continue for unvaccinated kids, and virtually all parents made the choice to keep masking the kids. So while not a requirement, the parents seem to be taking that recommendation to heart. Last week, my 3yo was one of two kids in her class without a mask. This week she was the only one, and asked for a mask this morning. I’m not going to be that wacko parent forcing my kid to NOT wear one, and the benefits of no mask are diminished when she can’t see anyone else’s face anyway. I’m just rather dismayed that it’s going to be some flavor of this until the vaccine is authorized.

I am one of the PP's who posted about our MoCo daycare no longer requiring masks, and we're going through the same with 3yo DS. I sent him back without a mask the day the mandate was lifted, but all the other kids in his class were still wearing them, as were most of the teachers. While there doesn't seem to be any peer pressure or singling out as the only kid not wearing a mask, he has started to put stuff in his mouth and chew on his fingers, which he didn't have a habit of doing before. His teachers asked us to keep an eye on it; my guess is that he is adjusting to the feeling of *not* wearing a mask, and putting stuff in his mouth as a comfort strategy.

He said this AM he wanted to wear the mask again, so I sent him in with a few extras and told him to ask his teachers if he wanted to wear it. I guess it'll be more of an adjustment period than I anticipated.

Pretty much the same situation here. I’ve been asking him if he wants a mask in the morning, and he keeps saying yes. When we go to other places, like the grocery store, I don’t ask because I’m trying to make sure he understands that masks aren’t required.

I don’t really care if he wears a mask. There’s not really a benefit or harm to himself for wearing a mask. The benefit would be his teachers and classmates removing masks, which I acknowledge is their own choice. I do hope that everyone can collectively calm down over the next few weeks, but I’m concerned that the lack of a vaccine is a big mental block for a lot of parents.

COVID rates in Europe are going up, and the rates in wastewater here are starting to go up as well. The next few weeks will be very telling.

Didn’t Omicron demonstrate to people that even worst-case-scenarios really aren’t that bad? The level of risk isn't tied so much to case counts as it is virulence.

Omicron was less virulent than Delta, and about as virulent as Alpha. Alpha killed a lot of people with naïve immune systems, and so did Omicron. But deaths are only part of the story. The more we learn about the lasting impacts of the mild and moderate cases, the scarier it is. We might know for years the effects it can have on unvaccinated kids.

So before people on this thread treat fellow parents as irrational, accept that some of us may have different risk tolerances when it comes to our kids and novel diseases. Every time we have thrown caution to the wind cases have gone up, and it seems to be happening yet again. You can assume nothing with this virus or the going-forward efficacy of our vaccines. You can only judge in hindsight.

I'm sympathetic to this concern, but my question would be what exactly are you waiting for? Vaccinated people including 5+ children also get mild cases that could turn out to be something more years down the road - and so far, there isn't an effective vaccine for 0-5 year olds. Whatever vaccine is ultimately approved for this age group (if one is), is likely to be insufficient to prevent cases in small kids.

It feels like we have a choice between the here and now negative effects of years of pandemic restrictions on children during critical development years. Or a future unknown health issue. I know we as parents would choose "neither" if we could, but for me as a parent, I'm much more concerned about the here and now impact on my child versus the future unknown. I trust that if almost every child will ultimately get Covid, by the time they are adults dealing with a surprise long-term effect, the science will be there to treat them.

It sometimes feels like the "some of us will do anything to protect our children" argument, besides being a bit insulting (of course we all want to protect our kids), is really about parents being unwilling to accept the imperfect choices before them. There is no way to 100% protect you kid and we need to stop pretending there is.

My kid isn’t suffering any “here and now” effects. Everything is right on track. The one who is suffering some delays isn’t masked and isn’t around people who are. It’s just how that kid was made. So, for us, the risk of COVID, whether from the illness itself or the incredibly disruptive effect the isolations and quarantines will have when we’re already at the end of our ropes, outweighs everything else.

And let’s be clear- COVID is back. The trends in Europe have borne out here almost every time and they’re showing a noticeable surge again. When it comes to kids and severity, past performance is no guarantee of future results. I’m not quite ready to let it rip and a lot of parents aren’t, either.

Now, if all the daycares want to change their policy to let kids go back 24 hours after any fever breaks, I’m all for it. Right now I have to do what it takes to keep my family together. If masks show a 20% reduction in transmission, I’ll take it.

Masks worn in early childhood settings do not show a 20% reduction in transmission. That's hilarious.

Listen, we don’t know how effective they are in practice against COVID. But masking is associated with fewer disruptions.

And speaking of disruptions, I’m not sure this house can handle all the usual winter illnesses on top of multiple bouts of COVID. All the masking and sanitation theater may not be all that effective for COVID, but it has been very effective for all the other usual stuff. My kids will pick up enough crap to keep their immune systems healthy, I don’t need to pile on.

Support for the bolded:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2788457

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our preschool just informed us that they will be insisting on masking until the under 5s are vaccine eligible, due to parental paranoia.

Yeah I think this is one of those things that has become so hard to undo once started. The original directive to not mask under 2 for safety reasons never should have evolved into you-must-mask-at-age-2. I’d like to think the people responsible for this would have paused had they known how long this would go on. Maybe not. Many areas never adopted toddler masking to begin with but those that did just can’t seem to let it go.

Exactly. It's clear it's not about public health. It's like it's become part of some parents/preschools' identity. It struck me when we were visiting open houses for preschools that the way they talked about masking, they didn't talk about following public health guidance, they didn't say they'd stop masking when it was no longer recommended. They just said "we require masks, don't worry the children wear them better than adults! You should expect we'll require masks next year."

+1. It’s now some bizarre mental health crisis.

Yup. I'm the first PP up top. We need a mask-choice mandate (i.e., you cannot legally run a daycare or preschool and have a policy requiring masking) because these people will never let it go.

Ours is now mask optional, but of course with that string recommendation from DHHS to keep continue for unvaccinated kids, and virtually all parents made the choice to keep masking the kids. So while not a requirement, the parents seem to be taking that recommendation to heart. Last week, my 3yo was one of two kids in her class without a mask. This week she was the only one, and asked for a mask this morning. I’m not going to be that wacko parent forcing my kid to NOT wear one, and the benefits of no mask are diminished when she can’t see anyone else’s face anyway. I’m just rather dismayed that it’s going to be some flavor of this until the vaccine is authorized.

I am one of the PP's who posted about our MoCo daycare no longer requiring masks, and we're going through the same with 3yo DS. I sent him back without a mask the day the mandate was lifted, but all the other kids in his class were still wearing them, as were most of the teachers. While there doesn't seem to be any peer pressure or singling out as the only kid not wearing a mask, he has started to put stuff in his mouth and chew on his fingers, which he didn't have a habit of doing before. His teachers asked us to keep an eye on it; my guess is that he is adjusting to the feeling of *not* wearing a mask, and putting stuff in his mouth as a comfort strategy.

He said this AM he wanted to wear the mask again, so I sent him in with a few extras and told him to ask his teachers if he wanted to wear it. I guess it'll be more of an adjustment period than I anticipated.

Pretty much the same situation here. I’ve been asking him if he wants a mask in the morning, and he keeps saying yes. When we go to other places, like the grocery store, I don’t ask because I’m trying to make sure he understands that masks aren’t required.

I don’t really care if he wears a mask. There’s not really a benefit or harm to himself for wearing a mask. The benefit would be his teachers and classmates removing masks, which I acknowledge is their own choice. I do hope that everyone can collectively calm down over the next few weeks, but I’m concerned that the lack of a vaccine is a big mental block for a lot of parents.

COVID rates in Europe are going up, and the rates in wastewater here are starting to go up as well. The next few weeks will be very telling.

Didn’t Omicron demonstrate to people that even worst-case-scenarios really aren’t that bad? The level of risk isn't tied so much to case counts as it is virulence.

Omicron was less virulent than Delta, and about as virulent as Alpha. Alpha killed a lot of people with naïve immune systems, and so did Omicron. But deaths are only part of the story. The more we learn about the lasting impacts of the mild and moderate cases, the scarier it is. We might know for years the effects it can have on unvaccinated kids.

So before people on this thread treat fellow parents as irrational, accept that some of us may have different risk tolerances when it comes to our kids and novel diseases. Every time we have thrown caution to the wind cases have gone up, and it seems to be happening yet again. You can assume nothing with this virus or the going-forward efficacy of our vaccines. You can only judge in hindsight.

I'm sympathetic to this concern, but my question would be what exactly are you waiting for? Vaccinated people including 5+ children also get mild cases that could turn out to be something more years down the road - and so far, there isn't an effective vaccine for 0-5 year olds. Whatever vaccine is ultimately approved for this age group (if one is), is likely to be insufficient to prevent cases in small kids.

It feels like we have a choice between the here and now negative effects of years of pandemic restrictions on children during critical development years. Or a future unknown health issue. I know we as parents would choose "neither" if we could, but for me as a parent, I'm much more concerned about the here and now impact on my child versus the future unknown. I trust that if almost every child will ultimately get Covid, by the time they are adults dealing with a surprise long-term effect, the science will be there to treat them.

It sometimes feels like the "some of us will do anything to protect our children" argument, besides being a bit insulting (of course we all want to protect our kids), is really about parents being unwilling to accept the imperfect choices before them. There is no way to 100% protect you kid and we need to stop pretending there is.

My kid isn’t suffering any “here and now” effects. Everything is right on track. The one who is suffering some delays isn’t masked and isn’t around people who are. It’s just how that kid was made. So, for us, the risk of COVID, whether from the illness itself or the incredibly disruptive effect the isolations and quarantines will have when we’re already at the end of our ropes, outweighs everything else.

And let’s be clear- COVID is back. The trends in Europe have borne out here almost every time and they’re showing a noticeable surge again. When it comes to kids and severity, past performance is no guarantee of future results. I’m not quite ready to let it rip and a lot of parents aren’t, either.

Now, if all the daycares want to change their policy to let kids go back 24 hours after any fever breaks, I’m all for it. Right now I have to do what it takes to keep my family together. If masks show a 20% reduction in transmission, I’ll take it.

Masks worn in early childhood settings do not show a 20% reduction in transmission. That's hilarious.

Listen, we don’t know how effective they are in practice against COVID. But masking is associated with fewer disruptions.

And speaking of disruptions, I’m not sure this house can handle all the usual winter illnesses on top of multiple bouts of COVID. All the masking and sanitation theater may not be all that effective for COVID, but it has been very effective for all the other usual stuff. My kids will pick up enough crap to keep their immune systems healthy, I don’t need to pile on.

Support for the bolded:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2788457

So, I have some questions about that study, but even still, is a 14% reduction in closures worth indefinite masking in childcare settings? I'm not sure it is to me. And I say indefinite because 1) we do not know when the vaccine will be authorized, and 2) we have no assurances that masks will even be dropped when the kids are eligible for vaccination. Because as you say, the masks may have reduced the spread of other illnesses as well (probably even more so than Covid). There is going to be a push to keep masks as a tool to reduce illnesses among kids overall, and I don't think that is sound public health strategy at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our preschool just informed us that they will be insisting on masking until the under 5s are vaccine eligible, due to parental paranoia.

Yeah I think this is one of those things that has become so hard to undo once started. The original directive to not mask under 2 for safety reasons never should have evolved into you-must-mask-at-age-2. I’d like to think the people responsible for this would have paused had they known how long this would go on. Maybe not. Many areas never adopted toddler masking to begin with but those that did just can’t seem to let it go.

Exactly. It's clear it's not about public health. It's like it's become part of some parents/preschools' identity. It struck me when we were visiting open houses for preschools that the way they talked about masking, they didn't talk about following public health guidance, they didn't say they'd stop masking when it was no longer recommended. They just said "we require masks, don't worry the children wear them better than adults! You should expect we'll require masks next year."

+1. It’s now some bizarre mental health crisis.

Yup. I'm the first PP up top. We need a mask-choice mandate (i.e., you cannot legally run a daycare or preschool and have a policy requiring masking) because these people will never let it go.

Ours is now mask optional, but of course with that string recommendation from DHHS to keep continue for unvaccinated kids, and virtually all parents made the choice to keep masking the kids. So while not a requirement, the parents seem to be taking that recommendation to heart. Last week, my 3yo was one of two kids in her class without a mask. This week she was the only one, and asked for a mask this morning. I’m not going to be that wacko parent forcing my kid to NOT wear one, and the benefits of no mask are diminished when she can’t see anyone else’s face anyway. I’m just rather dismayed that it’s going to be some flavor of this until the vaccine is authorized.

I am one of the PP's who posted about our MoCo daycare no longer requiring masks, and we're going through the same with 3yo DS. I sent him back without a mask the day the mandate was lifted, but all the other kids in his class were still wearing them, as were most of the teachers. While there doesn't seem to be any peer pressure or singling out as the only kid not wearing a mask, he has started to put stuff in his mouth and chew on his fingers, which he didn't have a habit of doing before. His teachers asked us to keep an eye on it; my guess is that he is adjusting to the feeling of *not* wearing a mask, and putting stuff in his mouth as a comfort strategy.

He said this AM he wanted to wear the mask again, so I sent him in with a few extras and told him to ask his teachers if he wanted to wear it. I guess it'll be more of an adjustment period than I anticipated.

Pretty much the same situation here. I’ve been asking him if he wants a mask in the morning, and he keeps saying yes. When we go to other places, like the grocery store, I don’t ask because I’m trying to make sure he understands that masks aren’t required.

I don’t really care if he wears a mask. There’s not really a benefit or harm to himself for wearing a mask. The benefit would be his teachers and classmates removing masks, which I acknowledge is their own choice. I do hope that everyone can collectively calm down over the next few weeks, but I’m concerned that the lack of a vaccine is a big mental block for a lot of parents.

COVID rates in Europe are going up, and the rates in wastewater here are starting to go up as well. The next few weeks will be very telling.

Didn’t Omicron demonstrate to people that even worst-case-scenarios really aren’t that bad? The level of risk isn't tied so much to case counts as it is virulence.

Omicron was less virulent than Delta, and about as virulent as Alpha. Alpha killed a lot of people with naïve immune systems, and so did Omicron. But deaths are only part of the story. The more we learn about the lasting impacts of the mild and moderate cases, the scarier it is. We might know for years the effects it can have on unvaccinated kids.

So before people on this thread treat fellow parents as irrational, accept that some of us may have different risk tolerances when it comes to our kids and novel diseases. Every time we have thrown caution to the wind cases have gone up, and it seems to be happening yet again. You can assume nothing with this virus or the going-forward efficacy of our vaccines. You can only judge in hindsight.

I'm sympathetic to this concern, but my question would be what exactly are you waiting for? Vaccinated people including 5+ children also get mild cases that could turn out to be something more years down the road - and so far, there isn't an effective vaccine for 0-5 year olds. Whatever vaccine is ultimately approved for this age group (if one is), is likely to be insufficient to prevent cases in small kids.

It feels like we have a choice between the here and now negative effects of years of pandemic restrictions on children during critical development years. Or a future unknown health issue. I know we as parents would choose "neither" if we could, but for me as a parent, I'm much more concerned about the here and now impact on my child versus the future unknown. I trust that if almost every child will ultimately get Covid, by the time they are adults dealing with a surprise long-term effect, the science will be there to treat them.

It sometimes feels like the "some of us will do anything to protect our children" argument, besides being a bit insulting (of course we all want to protect our kids), is really about parents being unwilling to accept the imperfect choices before them. There is no way to 100% protect you kid and we need to stop pretending there is.

My kid isn’t suffering any “here and now” effects. Everything is right on track. The one who is suffering some delays isn’t masked and isn’t around people who are. It’s just how that kid was made. So, for us, the risk of COVID, whether from the illness itself or the incredibly disruptive effect the isolations and quarantines will have when we’re already at the end of our ropes, outweighs everything else.

And let’s be clear- COVID is back. The trends in Europe have borne out here almost every time and they’re showing a noticeable surge again. When it comes to kids and severity, past performance is no guarantee of future results. I’m not quite ready to let it rip and a lot of parents aren’t, either.

Now, if all the daycares want to change their policy to let kids go back 24 hours after any fever breaks, I’m all for it. Right now I have to do what it takes to keep my family together. If masks show a 20% reduction in transmission, I’ll take it.

Masks worn in early childhood settings do not show a 20% reduction in transmission. That's hilarious.

Listen, we don’t know how effective they are in practice against COVID. But masking is associated with fewer disruptions.

And speaking of disruptions, I’m not sure this house can handle all the usual winter illnesses on top of multiple bouts of COVID. All the masking and sanitation theater may not be all that effective for COVID, but it has been very effective for all the other usual stuff. My kids will pick up enough crap to keep their immune systems healthy, I don’t need to pile on.

Support for the bolded:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2788457

So, I have some questions about that study, but even still, is a 14% reduction in closures worth indefinite masking in childcare settings? I'm not sure it is to me. And I say indefinite because 1) we do not know when the vaccine will be authorized, and 2) we have no assurances that masks will even be dropped when the kids are eligible for vaccination. Because as you say, the masks may have reduced the spread of other illnesses as well (probably even more so than Covid). There is going to be a push to keep masks as a tool to reduce illnesses among kids overall, and I don't think that is sound public health strategy at all.

+1 to all of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our preschool just informed us that they will be insisting on masking until the under 5s are vaccine eligible, due to parental paranoia.

Yeah I think this is one of those things that has become so hard to undo once started. The original directive to not mask under 2 for safety reasons never should have evolved into you-must-mask-at-age-2. I’d like to think the people responsible for this would have paused had they known how long this would go on. Maybe not. Many areas never adopted toddler masking to begin with but those that did just can’t seem to let it go.

Exactly. It's clear it's not about public health. It's like it's become part of some parents/preschools' identity. It struck me when we were visiting open houses for preschools that the way they talked about masking, they didn't talk about following public health guidance, they didn't say they'd stop masking when it was no longer recommended. They just said "we require masks, don't worry the children wear them better than adults! You should expect we'll require masks next year."

+1. It’s now some bizarre mental health crisis.

Yup. I'm the first PP up top. We need a mask-choice mandate (i.e., you cannot legally run a daycare or preschool and have a policy requiring masking) because these people will never let it go.

Ours is now mask optional, but of course with that string recommendation from DHHS to keep continue for unvaccinated kids, and virtually all parents made the choice to keep masking the kids. So while not a requirement, the parents seem to be taking that recommendation to heart. Last week, my 3yo was one of two kids in her class without a mask. This week she was the only one, and asked for a mask this morning. I’m not going to be that wacko parent forcing my kid to NOT wear one, and the benefits of no mask are diminished when she can’t see anyone else’s face anyway. I’m just rather dismayed that it’s going to be some flavor of this until the vaccine is authorized.

I am one of the PP's who posted about our MoCo daycare no longer requiring masks, and we're going through the same with 3yo DS. I sent him back without a mask the day the mandate was lifted, but all the other kids in his class were still wearing them, as were most of the teachers. While there doesn't seem to be any peer pressure or singling out as the only kid not wearing a mask, he has started to put stuff in his mouth and chew on his fingers, which he didn't have a habit of doing before. His teachers asked us to keep an eye on it; my guess is that he is adjusting to the feeling of *not* wearing a mask, and putting stuff in his mouth as a comfort strategy.

He said this AM he wanted to wear the mask again, so I sent him in with a few extras and told him to ask his teachers if he wanted to wear it. I guess it'll be more of an adjustment period than I anticipated.

Pretty much the same situation here. I’ve been asking him if he wants a mask in the morning, and he keeps saying yes. When we go to other places, like the grocery store, I don’t ask because I’m trying to make sure he understands that masks aren’t required.

I don’t really care if he wears a mask. There’s not really a benefit or harm to himself for wearing a mask. The benefit would be his teachers and classmates removing masks, which I acknowledge is their own choice. I do hope that everyone can collectively calm down over the next few weeks, but I’m concerned that the lack of a vaccine is a big mental block for a lot of parents.

COVID rates in Europe are going up, and the rates in wastewater here are starting to go up as well. The next few weeks will be very telling.

Didn’t Omicron demonstrate to people that even worst-case-scenarios really aren’t that bad? The level of risk isn't tied so much to case counts as it is virulence.

Omicron was less virulent than Delta, and about as virulent as Alpha. Alpha killed a lot of people with naïve immune systems, and so did Omicron. But deaths are only part of the story. The more we learn about the lasting impacts of the mild and moderate cases, the scarier it is. We might know for years the effects it can have on unvaccinated kids.

So before people on this thread treat fellow parents as irrational, accept that some of us may have different risk tolerances when it comes to our kids and novel diseases. Every time we have thrown caution to the wind cases have gone up, and it seems to be happening yet again. You can assume nothing with this virus or the going-forward efficacy of our vaccines. You can only judge in hindsight.

I'm sympathetic to this concern, but my question would be what exactly are you waiting for? Vaccinated people including 5+ children also get mild cases that could turn out to be something more years down the road - and so far, there isn't an effective vaccine for 0-5 year olds. Whatever vaccine is ultimately approved for this age group (if one is), is likely to be insufficient to prevent cases in small kids.

It feels like we have a choice between the here and now negative effects of years of pandemic restrictions on children during critical development years. Or a future unknown health issue. I know we as parents would choose "neither" if we could, but for me as a parent, I'm much more concerned about the here and now impact on my child versus the future unknown. I trust that if almost every child will ultimately get Covid, by the time they are adults dealing with a surprise long-term effect, the science will be there to treat them.

It sometimes feels like the "some of us will do anything to protect our children" argument, besides being a bit insulting (of course we all want to protect our kids), is really about parents being unwilling to accept the imperfect choices before them. There is no way to 100% protect you kid and we need to stop pretending there is.

My kid isn’t suffering any “here and now” effects. Everything is right on track. The one who is suffering some delays isn’t masked and isn’t around people who are. It’s just how that kid was made. So, for us, the risk of COVID, whether from the illness itself or the incredibly disruptive effect the isolations and quarantines will have when we’re already at the end of our ropes, outweighs everything else.

And let’s be clear- COVID is back. The trends in Europe have borne out here almost every time and they’re showing a noticeable surge again. When it comes to kids and severity, past performance is no guarantee of future results. I’m not quite ready to let it rip and a lot of parents aren’t, either.

Now, if all the daycares want to change their policy to let kids go back 24 hours after any fever breaks, I’m all for it. Right now I have to do what it takes to keep my family together. If masks show a 20% reduction in transmission, I’ll take it.

Masks worn in early childhood settings do not show a 20% reduction in transmission. That's hilarious.

Listen, we don’t know how effective they are in practice against COVID. But masking is associated with fewer disruptions.

And speaking of disruptions, I’m not sure this house can handle all the usual winter illnesses on top of multiple bouts of COVID. All the masking and sanitation theater may not be all that effective for COVID, but it has been very effective for all the other usual stuff. My kids will pick up enough crap to keep their immune systems healthy, I don’t need to pile on.

Support for the bolded:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2788457

So, I have some questions about that study, but even still, is a 14% reduction in closures worth indefinite masking in childcare settings? I'm not sure it is to me. And I say indefinite because 1) we do not know when the vaccine will be authorized, and 2) we have no assurances that masks will even be dropped when the kids are eligible for vaccination. Because as you say, the masks may have reduced the spread of other illnesses as well (probably even more so than Covid). There is going to be a push to keep masks as a tool to reduce illnesses among kids overall, and I don't think that is sound public health strategy at all.

+1 to all of this.

+2 I appreciate the researchers tried to control for different factors but the likelihood of unobserved variables influencing the results is way too high. And the 14% is the middle of a confidence interval that ranges from 23% to 1%. Really, they have no idea what impact, if any, the masking had in terms of school closures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our preschool just informed us that they will be insisting on masking until the under 5s are vaccine eligible, due to parental paranoia.

Yeah I think this is one of those things that has become so hard to undo once started. The original directive to not mask under 2 for safety reasons never should have evolved into you-must-mask-at-age-2. I’d like to think the people responsible for this would have paused had they known how long this would go on. Maybe not. Many areas never adopted toddler masking to begin with but those that did just can’t seem to let it go.

Exactly. It's clear it's not about public health. It's like it's become part of some parents/preschools' identity. It struck me when we were visiting open houses for preschools that the way they talked about masking, they didn't talk about following public health guidance, they didn't say they'd stop masking when it was no longer recommended. They just said "we require masks, don't worry the children wear them better than adults! You should expect we'll require masks next year."

+1. It’s now some bizarre mental health crisis.

Yup. I'm the first PP up top. We need a mask-choice mandate (i.e., you cannot legally run a daycare or preschool and have a policy requiring masking) because these people will never let it go.

Ours is now mask optional, but of course with that string recommendation from DHHS to keep continue for unvaccinated kids, and virtually all parents made the choice to keep masking the kids. So while not a requirement, the parents seem to be taking that recommendation to heart. Last week, my 3yo was one of two kids in her class without a mask. This week she was the only one, and asked for a mask this morning. I’m not going to be that wacko parent forcing my kid to NOT wear one, and the benefits of no mask are diminished when she can’t see anyone else’s face anyway. I’m just rather dismayed that it’s going to be some flavor of this until the vaccine is authorized.

I am one of the PP's who posted about our MoCo daycare no longer requiring masks, and we're going through the same with 3yo DS. I sent him back without a mask the day the mandate was lifted, but all the other kids in his class were still wearing them, as were most of the teachers. While there doesn't seem to be any peer pressure or singling out as the only kid not wearing a mask, he has started to put stuff in his mouth and chew on his fingers, which he didn't have a habit of doing before. His teachers asked us to keep an eye on it; my guess is that he is adjusting to the feeling of *not* wearing a mask, and putting stuff in his mouth as a comfort strategy.

He said this AM he wanted to wear the mask again, so I sent him in with a few extras and told him to ask his teachers if he wanted to wear it. I guess it'll be more of an adjustment period than I anticipated.

Pretty much the same situation here. I’ve been asking him if he wants a mask in the morning, and he keeps saying yes. When we go to other places, like the grocery store, I don’t ask because I’m trying to make sure he understands that masks aren’t required.

I don’t really care if he wears a mask. There’s not really a benefit or harm to himself for wearing a mask. The benefit would be his teachers and classmates removing masks, which I acknowledge is their own choice. I do hope that everyone can collectively calm down over the next few weeks, but I’m concerned that the lack of a vaccine is a big mental block for a lot of parents.

COVID rates in Europe are going up, and the rates in wastewater here are starting to go up as well. The next few weeks will be very telling.

Didn’t Omicron demonstrate to people that even worst-case-scenarios really aren’t that bad? The level of risk isn't tied so much to case counts as it is virulence.

Omicron was less virulent than Delta, and about as virulent as Alpha. Alpha killed a lot of people with naïve immune systems, and so did Omicron. But deaths are only part of the story. The more we learn about the lasting impacts of the mild and moderate cases, the scarier it is. We might know for years the effects it can have on unvaccinated kids.

So before people on this thread treat fellow parents as irrational, accept that some of us may have different risk tolerances when it comes to our kids and novel diseases. Every time we have thrown caution to the wind cases have gone up, and it seems to be happening yet again. You can assume nothing with this virus or the going-forward efficacy of our vaccines. You can only judge in hindsight.

I'm sympathetic to this concern, but my question would be what exactly are you waiting for? Vaccinated people including 5+ children also get mild cases that could turn out to be something more years down the road - and so far, there isn't an effective vaccine for 0-5 year olds. Whatever vaccine is ultimately approved for this age group (if one is), is likely to be insufficient to prevent cases in small kids.

It feels like we have a choice between the here and now negative effects of years of pandemic restrictions on children during critical development years. Or a future unknown health issue. I know we as parents would choose "neither" if we could, but for me as a parent, I'm much more concerned about the here and now impact on my child versus the future unknown. I trust that if almost every child will ultimately get Covid, by the time they are adults dealing with a surprise long-term effect, the science will be there to treat them.

It sometimes feels like the "some of us will do anything to protect our children" argument, besides being a bit insulting (of course we all want to protect our kids), is really about parents being unwilling to accept the imperfect choices before them. There is no way to 100% protect you kid and we need to stop pretending there is.

My kid isn’t suffering any “here and now” effects. Everything is right on track. The one who is suffering some delays isn’t masked and isn’t around people who are. It’s just how that kid was made. So, for us, the risk of COVID, whether from the illness itself or the incredibly disruptive effect the isolations and quarantines will have when we’re already at the end of our ropes, outweighs everything else.

And let’s be clear- COVID is back. The trends in Europe have borne out here almost every time and they’re showing a noticeable surge again. When it comes to kids and severity, past performance is no guarantee of future results. I’m not quite ready to let it rip and a lot of parents aren’t, either.

Now, if all the daycares want to change their policy to let kids go back 24 hours after any fever breaks, I’m all for it. Right now I have to do what it takes to keep my family together. If masks show a 20% reduction in transmission, I’ll take it.

Masks worn in early childhood settings do not show a 20% reduction in transmission. That's hilarious.

Listen, we don’t know how effective they are in practice against COVID. But masking is associated with fewer disruptions.

And speaking of disruptions, I’m not sure this house can handle all the usual winter illnesses on top of multiple bouts of COVID. All the masking and sanitation theater may not be all that effective for COVID, but it has been very effective for all the other usual stuff. My kids will pick up enough crap to keep their immune systems healthy, I don’t need to pile on.

Support for the bolded:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2788457

So, I have some questions about that study, but even still, is a 14% reduction in closures worth indefinite masking in childcare settings? I'm not sure it is to me. And I say indefinite because 1) we do not know when the vaccine will be authorized, and 2) we have no assurances that masks will even be dropped when the kids are eligible for vaccination. Because as you say, the masks may have reduced the spread of other illnesses as well (probably even more so than Covid). There is going to be a push to keep masks as a tool to reduce illnesses among kids overall, and I don't think that is sound public health strategy at all.

+1 to all of this.

+2 I appreciate the researchers tried to control for different factors but the likelihood of unobserved variables influencing the results is way too high. And the 14% is the middle of a confidence interval that ranges from 23% to 1%. Really, they have no idea what impact, if any, the masking had in terms of school closures.

+3. Also, I may have missed it, but I don't see how they addressed differences in closure policies. Because what would close one daycare classroom didn't necessarily close another (e.g. for a while ours was closing classrooms simply if a child was awaiting test results).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our preschool just informed us that they will be insisting on masking until the under 5s are vaccine eligible, due to parental paranoia.

Yeah I think this is one of those things that has become so hard to undo once started. The original directive to not mask under 2 for safety reasons never should have evolved into you-must-mask-at-age-2. I’d like to think the people responsible for this would have paused had they known how long this would go on. Maybe not. Many areas never adopted toddler masking to begin with but those that did just can’t seem to let it go.

Exactly. It's clear it's not about public health. It's like it's become part of some parents/preschools' identity. It struck me when we were visiting open houses for preschools that the way they talked about masking, they didn't talk about following public health guidance, they didn't say they'd stop masking when it was no longer recommended. They just said "we require masks, don't worry the children wear them better than adults! You should expect we'll require masks next year."

+1. It’s now some bizarre mental health crisis.

Yup. I'm the first PP up top. We need a mask-choice mandate (i.e., you cannot legally run a daycare or preschool and have a policy requiring masking) because these people will never let it go.

Ours is now mask optional, but of course with that string recommendation from DHHS to keep continue for unvaccinated kids, and virtually all parents made the choice to keep masking the kids. So while not a requirement, the parents seem to be taking that recommendation to heart. Last week, my 3yo was one of two kids in her class without a mask. This week she was the only one, and asked for a mask this morning. I’m not going to be that wacko parent forcing my kid to NOT wear one, and the benefits of no mask are diminished when she can’t see anyone else’s face anyway. I’m just rather dismayed that it’s going to be some flavor of this until the vaccine is authorized.

I am one of the PP's who posted about our MoCo daycare no longer requiring masks, and we're going through the same with 3yo DS. I sent him back without a mask the day the mandate was lifted, but all the other kids in his class were still wearing them, as were most of the teachers. While there doesn't seem to be any peer pressure or singling out as the only kid not wearing a mask, he has started to put stuff in his mouth and chew on his fingers, which he didn't have a habit of doing before. His teachers asked us to keep an eye on it; my guess is that he is adjusting to the feeling of *not* wearing a mask, and putting stuff in his mouth as a comfort strategy.

He said this AM he wanted to wear the mask again, so I sent him in with a few extras and told him to ask his teachers if he wanted to wear it. I guess it'll be more of an adjustment period than I anticipated.

Pretty much the same situation here. I’ve been asking him if he wants a mask in the morning, and he keeps saying yes. When we go to other places, like the grocery store, I don’t ask because I’m trying to make sure he understands that masks aren’t required.

I don’t really care if he wears a mask. There’s not really a benefit or harm to himself for wearing a mask. The benefit would be his teachers and classmates removing masks, which I acknowledge is their own choice. I do hope that everyone can collectively calm down over the next few weeks, but I’m concerned that the lack of a vaccine is a big mental block for a lot of parents.

COVID rates in Europe are going up, and the rates in wastewater here are starting to go up as well. The next few weeks will be very telling.

Didn’t Omicron demonstrate to people that even worst-case-scenarios really aren’t that bad? The level of risk isn't tied so much to case counts as it is virulence.

Omicron was less virulent than Delta, and about as virulent as Alpha. Alpha killed a lot of people with naïve immune systems, and so did Omicron. But deaths are only part of the story. The more we learn about the lasting impacts of the mild and moderate cases, the scarier it is. We might know for years the effects it can have on unvaccinated kids.

So before people on this thread treat fellow parents as irrational, accept that some of us may have different risk tolerances when it comes to our kids and novel diseases. Every time we have thrown caution to the wind cases have gone up, and it seems to be happening yet again. You can assume nothing with this virus or the going-forward efficacy of our vaccines. You can only judge in hindsight.

I'm sympathetic to this concern, but my question would be what exactly are you waiting for? Vaccinated people including 5+ children also get mild cases that could turn out to be something more years down the road - and so far, there isn't an effective vaccine for 0-5 year olds. Whatever vaccine is ultimately approved for this age group (if one is), is likely to be insufficient to prevent cases in small kids.

It feels like we have a choice between the here and now negative effects of years of pandemic restrictions on children during critical development years. Or a future unknown health issue. I know we as parents would choose "neither" if we could, but for me as a parent, I'm much more concerned about the here and now impact on my child versus the future unknown. I trust that if almost every child will ultimately get Covid, by the time they are adults dealing with a surprise long-term effect, the science will be there to treat them.

It sometimes feels like the "some of us will do anything to protect our children" argument, besides being a bit insulting (of course we all want to protect our kids), is really about parents being unwilling to accept the imperfect choices before them. There is no way to 100% protect you kid and we need to stop pretending there is.

My kid isn’t suffering any “here and now” effects. Everything is right on track. The one who is suffering some delays isn’t masked and isn’t around people who are. It’s just how that kid was made. So, for us, the risk of COVID, whether from the illness itself or the incredibly disruptive effect the isolations and quarantines will have when we’re already at the end of our ropes, outweighs everything else.

And let’s be clear- COVID is back. The trends in Europe have borne out here almost every time and they’re showing a noticeable surge again. When it comes to kids and severity, past performance is no guarantee of future results. I’m not quite ready to let it rip and a lot of parents aren’t, either.

Now, if all the daycares want to change their policy to let kids go back 24 hours after any fever breaks, I’m all for it. Right now I have to do what it takes to keep my family together. If masks show a 20% reduction in transmission, I’ll take it.

Masks worn in early childhood settings do not show a 20% reduction in transmission. That's hilarious.

Listen, we don’t know how effective they are in practice against COVID. But masking is associated with fewer disruptions.

And speaking of disruptions, I’m not sure this house can handle all the usual winter illnesses on top of multiple bouts of COVID. All the masking and sanitation theater may not be all that effective for COVID, but it has been very effective for all the other usual stuff. My kids will pick up enough crap to keep their immune systems healthy, I don’t need to pile on.

Support for the bolded:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2788457

So, I have some questions about that study, but even still, is a 14% reduction in closures worth indefinite masking in childcare settings? I'm not sure it is to me. And I say indefinite because 1) we do not know when the vaccine will be authorized, and 2) we have no assurances that masks will even be dropped when the kids are eligible for vaccination. Because as you say, the masks may have reduced the spread of other illnesses as well (probably even more so than Covid). There is going to be a push to keep masks as a tool to reduce illnesses among kids overall, and I don't think that is sound public health strategy at all.

+1 to all of this.

+2 I appreciate the researchers tried to control for different factors but the likelihood of unobserved variables influencing the results is way too high. And the 14% is the middle of a confidence interval that ranges from 23% to 1%. Really, they have no idea what impact, if any, the masking had in terms of school closures.

+3. Also, I may have missed it, but I don't see how they addressed differences in closure policies. Because what would close one daycare classroom didn't necessarily close another (e.g. for a while ours was closing classrooms simply if a child was awaiting test results).

I’d like to see some of this deep scrutiny applied to the “here and now” problems that people claim that are endemic but have been borne out by no data whatsoever. We can’t estimate the efficacy of imperfect mask use, but the idea that masks don’t work for anything at all in any situation is not borne out my data or experience.