Donnie Dumptruck says Mar-A-Lago's been searched by the FBI

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two points just made on CNN that are worth noting.

1. When the FBI reviews these documents and materials, they will not just be reviewing the substance of the documents. They will likely be fingerprinting the documents to determine who may have viewed them.

2. The existence of the documents alone would not be enough to support a finding of probable cause under the Espionage Act, so this warrant probably signals that DOJ has other evidence (probably from a witness or a written communication they obtained) of intent to share this information in a way that is contrary to national security interests. The warrant itself is only the tip of the iceberg here.

The second paragraph doesn’t make sense. Probable cause can be established by a showing that materials subject to the Espionage Act were in the possession and control of a person but are now unaccounted for and not otherwise under positive control by NARA and/or those materials are known to be located at a specified unsecured location without legal authority. The FBI obtains warrants on this basis all the time when government employees or contractors are involved in mishandling classified or confidential material.

It’s also quite possible that there was a sudden sense of urgency triggered by information obtained through intelligence, surveillance or a witness/source.

Warrants, yes, but I doubt a random employee will be CHARGED with espionage if they mistakenly bring something home they shouldn't have, absent all other proof.
Now in this case, Trump knowingly brought these documents home. But doesn't a charge of espionage need evidence of disseminating it to others? Or intent of same?

Nobody said anything about mistakenly — which is near impodddible to do. That’s blatantly moving the goalposts. Go read 18 USC sec. 793. It is not hard to parse.

Right. My question is: Will Trump be charged with espionage even if law enforcement cannot find any proof he intended to share them? Is sole possession of these docs sufficient since he should have known it was illegal to do so?

Also, if fingerprints of his employees are found on them, will they be charged too?

793 has seven discrete subsections dealing with handling defense information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's going to be tough to get trump, it's not like he actually carried the documents or moved them himself. They will need to prove trump told someone something and it will be a he said she said

Oh, sweetie. You really think DOJ didn't already have a ton of evidence on this that hasn't been disclosed publicly? You think they just randomly guessed someone might have stashed documents at Mar-a-Lago and decided to see what they could find?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two points just made on CNN that are worth noting.

1. When the FBI reviews these documents and materials, they will not just be reviewing the substance of the documents. They will likely be fingerprinting the documents to determine who may have viewed them.

2. The existence of the documents alone would not be enough to support a finding of probable cause under the Espionage Act, so this warrant probably signals that DOJ has other evidence (probably from a witness or a written communication they obtained) of intent to share this information in a way that is contrary to national security interests. The warrant itself is only the tip of the iceberg here.

The second paragraph doesn’t make sense. Probable cause can be established by a showing that materials subject to the Espionage Act were in the possession and control of a person but are now unaccounted for and not otherwise under positive control by NARA and/or those materials are known to be located at a specified unsecured location without legal authority. The FBI obtains warrants on this basis all the time when government employees or contractors are involved in mishandling classified or confidential material.

It’s also quite possible that there was a sudden sense of urgency triggered by information obtained through intelligence, surveillance or a witness/source.

Warrants, yes, but I doubt a random employee will be CHARGED with espionage if they mistakenly bring something home they shouldn't have, absent all other proof.
Now in this case, Trump knowingly brought these documents home. But doesn't a charge of espionage need evidence of disseminating it to others? Or intent of same?

Nobody said anything about mistakenly — which is near impodddible to do. That’s blatantly moving the goalposts. Go read 18 USC sec. 793. It is not hard to parse.

Right. My question is: Will Trump be charged with espionage even if law enforcement cannot find any proof he intended to share them? Is sole possession of these docs sufficient since he should have known it was illegal to do so?

Also, if fingerprints of his employees are found on them, will they be charged too?

793 has seven discrete subsections dealing with handling defense information.

DP. 793 wasn't the only provision cited in the supporting documents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A friend said that she'd heard the informant was likely a SS agent, and nobody close to Trump. I hope someday we know who it was.

So your friend believes acSS agent was rummaging through boxes in a basement storage locker unbeknownst to anyone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two points just made on CNN that are worth noting.

1. When the FBI reviews these documents and materials, they will not just be reviewing the substance of the documents. They will likely be fingerprinting the documents to determine who may have viewed them.

2. The existence of the documents alone would not be enough to support a finding of probable cause under the Espionage Act, so this warrant probably signals that DOJ has other evidence (probably from a witness or a written communication they obtained) of intent to share this information in a way that is contrary to national security interests. The warrant itself is only the tip of the iceberg here.

The second paragraph doesn’t make sense. Probable cause can be established by a showing that materials subject to the Espionage Act were in the possession and control of a person but are now unaccounted for and not otherwise under positive control by NARA and/or those materials are known to be located at a specified unsecured location without legal authority. The FBI obtains warrants on this basis all the time when government employees or contractors are involved in mishandling classified or confidential material.

It’s also quite possible that there was a sudden sense of urgency triggered by information obtained through intelligence, surveillance or a witness/source.

Warrants, yes, but I doubt a random employee will be CHARGED with espionage if they mistakenly bring something home they shouldn't have, absent all other proof.
Now in this case, Trump knowingly brought these documents home. But doesn't a charge of espionage need evidence of disseminating it to others? Or intent of same?

Nobody said anything about mistakenly — which is near impodddible to do. That’s blatantly moving the goalposts. Go read 18 USC sec. 793. It is not hard to parse.

Right. My question is: Will Trump be charged with espionage even if law enforcement cannot find any proof he intended to share them? Is sole possession of these docs sufficient since he should have known it was illegal to do so?

Also, if fingerprints of his employees are found on them, will they be charged too?

793 has seven discrete subsections dealing with handling defense information.

DP. 793 wasn't the only provision cited in the supporting documents.

They threw in destruction and obstruction for window dressing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend said that she'd heard the informant was likely a SS agent, and nobody close to Trump. I hope someday we know who it was.

So your friend believes acSS agent was rummaging through boxes in a basement storage locker unbeknownst to anyone?

Maybe they weren't always in boxes in basement storage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend said that she'd heard the informant was likely a SS agent, and nobody close to Trump. I hope someday we know who it was.

So your friend believes acSS agent was rummaging through boxes in a basement storage locker unbeknownst to anyone?

DP. I am not accepting the SS agent theory because there's nothing to support it, but your response does not make any sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend said that she'd heard the informant was likely a SS agent, and nobody close to Trump. I hope someday we know who it was.

So your friend believes acSS agent was rummaging through boxes in a basement storage locker unbeknownst to anyone?

Maybe they weren't always in boxes in basement storage.

I’m pretty sure people don’t have basements in Palm Beach. Where did the idea of a basement come from?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's going to be tough to get trump, it's not like he actually carried the documents or moved them himself. They will need to prove trump told someone something and it will be a he said she said

DOJ didn’t rely upon sec. 1924, which would be a violation predicated on mere possession of classified materials, in the warrant. This could tell us something about where this is headed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend said that she'd heard the informant was likely a SS agent, and nobody close to Trump. I hope someday we know who it was.

So your friend believes acSS agent was rummaging through boxes in a basement storage locker unbeknownst to anyone?

Maybe they weren't always in boxes in basement storage.

I’m pretty sure people don’t have basements in Palm Beach. Where did the idea of a basement come from?

Especially a block from the beach.

[Anonymous]

Poetry for the occasion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend said that she'd heard the informant was likely a SS agent, and nobody close to Trump. I hope someday we know who it was.

So your friend believes acSS agent was rummaging through boxes in a basement storage locker unbeknownst to anyone?

Maybe they weren't always in boxes in basement storage.

I’m pretty sure people don’t have basements in Palm Beach. Where did the idea of a basement come from?

Being pretty sure (aka truthiness) is not the same as a verifiable fact. Mar-a-Lago has a basement. Comet Ping-Pong does not. Oh the irony.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Poetry for the occasion.

The Onion got the mail on the head awhile ago with a piece about a briefcase containing the nuclear codes left in the lost-and-found.

[Anonymous]

The Onions piece was 2017!

[Anonymous]

It seems we are now at a totsl of 35 boxes: 15 turned over in response to a subpoena, the contents of which are generally unknown; and (2) another 20 boxes siezed on Monday, which include materials ranging from confidential to top secret, plus binders of photographs, some materials relating to Macron and a copy of the Toger Stone pardon from 12/20. Even Netflix wouldn’t greenlight a movie with this scenario.