Trapped/Re-aging Families, How are you having the conversation?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:G2016 was speaking with another parent this weekend about the BY the SY change. He said its weird. I asked why he thinks its weird. He said my kid is an August birthday. I said wouldn't that make your kid the oldest on a SY team? My kid is a july birthday shes screwed. He said its weird that my daughter would be playing on a team with players that are a year behind her in school. I said if you think that it's weird just tell your club that you're not paying unless shes on a team with players her grade.

Interesting exchange you could tell he instinctively knew that playing down was an issue. But he couldnt figure out why. His oldest is being recruited for swimming right so Im sure he'll put the pieces together reguarding his youngest and playing on the correct grade team.

In summary, you finally met someone with an child with an August birthday but couldn't convince them that they should kick and scream to have their kid to play up because they are special, not based on skill but because they are special. And this person didn't buy it. That would check out

I'm the person that wrote this.

I was just trying to listen to see what they were thinking. I thought it was interesting to hear their perspective. I specifically thought it was interesting that they thought it was weird for their kid to play down on a team with younger grade in school players.

You seem to have issues.

Not believable. They didn't have a problem with their daughter playing on age, just thought it was a little odd, and then you told them to go to the club and demand that they allow the girl to play up an age group. That isn't just listening.

Maybe, but the word they used was "weird" not "a little odd" and I know this guy he's 100% into his older kid getting recruited to swim in college. He said weird because playing down a grade goes against everything he's researched for his older kid. I did tell him to tell the club if he wants his kid to play with their grade. He pays the bills. You dont have to be in a weird situation just because some coach wants a big kid on their g2016 team.

The travel club doesn't care about a kids grade

Only their age and skills

That is where you're wrong.

Parents foot the bill so its up to them to protect their Aug birthday kids from being exploited by clubs/coaches playing down for short term wins vs playing with their grade for long term development and college recruiting.

If I'm a coach, no parent can tell me to take their kid to play up on my team if they lack the quality just because of school grade

Yeah, some parents may get their moronic request to play up. Then the coach doesn't play the kid so the kid quits.

Only the dumb parents ask for their kid to play up if they aren't ready and it has nothing to do with grades.

Hahaha nobody ever since the beginning of time has ever had an issue with players asking to play with players their grade.

Nice try though.

Coaches and teams absolutely hold it against kids when parents ask for special treatment.

So special treatment is asking to play with kids in your grade?

You are insane.

No serious coach or club will entertain a request for a player to play up if that player doesn't have the quality to do so.
None

Every club will let a player play with kids their grade if they're an August birthday and a grade older.

No club is going to force a player to participate in a way that is against what they want to do.

Again, nice try though.

This is where rubber meets road. Kids will just quit if you force them into a situation they don't want. It's not worth the time OR money, especially if it means joining a new team after playing with the same people for years.

What is unfortunate is this transition is going to put people into situations that won't give them good choices. Older players who want to play up to stay on grade may have to see less playing time or drop to a lower team VS. joining a team with a bunch of people they really don't know/perhaps less experienced/skilled who might resent the playing time THEY take as a stronger player. I mean, maybe some good life lessons here BUT this is why, IMO, they should have phased in the switch with younger teams first and left the HS ages alone.

People talk like this is Kindergarten social groups play-dates

Tell your kid this is how the real world works and what they will face as adults

The cutoff has changed to 8/1 and this is your new age group.
Go to training and put in the work or be a quitter

Yep, and clubs will have to face the adult reality of fewer customers if they manage things poorly.

Your sense of entitlement has removed all objective logical reality from your mind

Imagine seriously thinking your kid should be on a MLS Next team because of their birth month and demand this of a club

What's out-of-whack is thinking every soccer parent thinks their kid is going to be a college star. Some parents just want a club they've played at for most of their lives to treat them fairly. Nothing more and if they don't, they'll struggle with their bottom line, because those kids and families will move on as they should.

Clubs have been making decisions forever that pains many entitled parents who think little Chad and Lizzy should get whatever they want because they pay the fees

The clubs are still thriving even after you left

By fairly, you mean in your favor to your liking

Clubs thriving? In the time I've watched this space, I've seen plenty of clubs go out of business or have to merge with others. I guess you missed all that. Ignore market forces at your peril.

You're claiming normal market behavior as a feather in your argument cap?

Banks fail, merge
Software companies fail, merge
Hospitals fail, merge
Airlines fail, merge

Nothing you say will make your kid playing up a reality if they're not good enough to do so. Which they're obviously not or you wouldn't be politicking for same grade teams

If Aug birthdays aren't good enough for the correct grade A team welcome to the correct grade B team. Pretty simple

Except you would have to find a team willing to break their own rules to let a non star to play up if it exists. Or find a team to play on age

That makes no sense. The B team is players not good enough for the A team.

We'll be soon seeing a TON of B team players from Aug-Dec born join A teams. Bank on it!

Their B team skills gonna improve overnight?

Not the poster you are replying to, but yes they will improve RELATIVELY overnight when matched against the different age cohort. If you can't see this, I don't know what to tell you (yes the magnitude of course it depends on the specific age group)

Amen. True dat, elitists can't see the obvious.

So conversely Aug birthday players playing down will automatically get worse when playing with grade down cohorts.

Your confusing age with grades again. Grades aren't a thing in club soccer.

Last time I checked ECNL posts players graduation year on their profiles. I wonder why they would do that? Its almost like grade in scholl matters for something. What could it be?

It's so college coaches know when to expect them on campus.

So grade in school does matter and its because college recruiters use it to assess players.

Wouldn't want to be the one player playing down on a team with kids a grade below them. Easy way for recruiters to instant reject players.

Yes, because the recruiter sees the high quality of their current play, sees their strong potential for future play but decides not to recruit because of school grade

Here's the thing that's happening. These players wouldn't even be before the recruiter if they stay on grade on a B team, because the A team is just that good. And yet they have a chance with the A team on age OR it's a position issue. Sure, some coaches may not consider out of hand I guess, but on a lot of clubs the B teams don't get that kind of exposure period -- on the A teams. The A teams are the ones on the platform, get the travel to the big events. It's at least a foot in the door.

Another reason to group by grade as early as possible so correct grade B team players can move up to the correct grade A team when young.

Higher probability to play in college from playing on age than trying to play up when not ready and forced to merely because you went to school early. Highest probability to not play in college at all but will play longer if playing on age than playing up if not ready.

And this is why college coaches wont want aug birthdays playing down trojan horses.

Seriously, if you cant play with your grade how can you play against players 4 or more years older in college?

Easily. Playing on age is travel soccer rules and playing on grade is college soccer rules. Just play by the rules in both instances. Note that this is what Sept-Dec kids do now and what internals do.

The way to "Just play by the rules of both instances" is for young Aug-Dec players to play on the team that's their grade in school.

This is the issue. If you want to make Youth Soccer work for College recruiters then young players will need to play with their grade.

You might as well give up pushing for GY. You are on an island by yourself.

Nobody wants GY this is because it allows older players to play 1 sometimes 2 years down against younger players.

What people do want is SY 8/1-7/31 but with August birthdays playing with their grade team.

This makes it so all players at a game are graduating the same year. Which is what college recruiters want. But older players arent allowed to play down on younger teams. Which is what players and parents who are funding everything want.

Why do college recruiters want all players to be in the same school grade?

Are they taking a field trip after the game?

As much as people dont want to admit it recruiters do keep an eye out for players when attending games. If everyone playing is the same grade it makes it easier to identify players.

Also leagues tend to group teams by age and time when they play at events. What this means is say u13 games are at 8am when u15 games are at 11am or 12. This is done so certain age groups get the most exposure bevause these are the ones the recruiters want to see.

And yet crazy August hater doesn't chime in to point out that playing up a grade blocks you from getting seen by recruiters when people want their Sept-Dec staying on their current teams. This illustrates that he is trolling merely to help his DD become the oldest on her team and not because he actually thinks forcing grade year on everyone makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny that the guy whos spreading the GY Showcase rumor is also trying to say that leagues dont want groupings by grade.

You just want club soccer to be like HS Soccer and you plan to hold your kid back if you can make it happen so they can be a 16yr old freshman.

What's funny is hardly anyone on this board argues for playing down by age. The only time it comes up is when you make this over-the-top point. Our biggest point of disagreement is you want a one-size fits all system where you force older kids to play by grade whereas the rest of us argue for flexibility based on skill/individual circumstance.

No, the biggest issue is you want to allow older players than the SY 8/1-7/31 eligibility window to play down. I want players younger than the SY 8/1-7/31 eligibility window to play up. Both achieve the same results. All players on the field are the same grade. But, my solution is much better for paying customers and the clubs that feed off them where as playing down tends to invite including ringers that dont pay for anything. Which in the end will cause less players to participate because they feel the games are rigged. HS grade year soccer only works because its free.

If people better understood calenders and math they'd agree that grouping players up by grade (A or B team) is a much better solution than the opposite. The issue is grouping by GY is what people know because its what HS does and sports jock meathead types aren't smart enough to think outside the box.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:G2016 was speaking with another parent this weekend about the BY the SY change. He said its weird. I asked why he thinks its weird. He said my kid is an August birthday. I said wouldn't that make your kid the oldest on a SY team? My kid is a july birthday shes screwed. He said its weird that my daughter would be playing on a team with players that are a year behind her in school. I said if you think that it's weird just tell your club that you're not paying unless shes on a team with players her grade.

Interesting exchange you could tell he instinctively knew that playing down was an issue. But he couldnt figure out why. His oldest is being recruited for swimming right so Im sure he'll put the pieces together reguarding his youngest and playing on the correct grade team.

In summary, you finally met someone with an child with an August birthday but couldn't convince them that they should kick and scream to have their kid to play up because they are special, not based on skill but because they are special. And this person didn't buy it. That would check out

I'm the person that wrote this.

I was just trying to listen to see what they were thinking. I thought it was interesting to hear their perspective. I specifically thought it was interesting that they thought it was weird for their kid to play down on a team with younger grade in school players.

You seem to have issues.

Not believable. They didn't have a problem with their daughter playing on age, just thought it was a little odd, and then you told them to go to the club and demand that they allow the girl to play up an age group. That isn't just listening.

Maybe, but the word they used was "weird" not "a little odd" and I know this guy he's 100% into his older kid getting recruited to swim in college. He said weird because playing down a grade goes against everything he's researched for his older kid. I did tell him to tell the club if he wants his kid to play with their grade. He pays the bills. You dont have to be in a weird situation just because some coach wants a big kid on their g2016 team.

The travel club doesn't care about a kids grade

Only their age and skills

That is where you're wrong.

Parents foot the bill so its up to them to protect their Aug birthday kids from being exploited by clubs/coaches playing down for short term wins vs playing with their grade for long term development and college recruiting.

If I'm a coach, no parent can tell me to take their kid to play up on my team if they lack the quality just because of school grade

Yeah, some parents may get their moronic request to play up. Then the coach doesn't play the kid so the kid quits.

Only the dumb parents ask for their kid to play up if they aren't ready and it has nothing to do with grades.

Hahaha nobody ever since the beginning of time has ever had an issue with players asking to play with players their grade.

Nice try though.

Coaches and teams absolutely hold it against kids when parents ask for special treatment.

So special treatment is asking to play with kids in your grade?

You are insane.

No serious coach or club will entertain a request for a player to play up if that player doesn't have the quality to do so.
None

Every club will let a player play with kids their grade if they're an August birthday and a grade older.

No club is going to force a player to participate in a way that is against what they want to do.

Again, nice try though.

This is where rubber meets road. Kids will just quit if you force them into a situation they don't want. It's not worth the time OR money, especially if it means joining a new team after playing with the same people for years.

What is unfortunate is this transition is going to put people into situations that won't give them good choices. Older players who want to play up to stay on grade may have to see less playing time or drop to a lower team VS. joining a team with a bunch of people they really don't know/perhaps less experienced/skilled who might resent the playing time THEY take as a stronger player. I mean, maybe some good life lessons here BUT this is why, IMO, they should have phased in the switch with younger teams first and left the HS ages alone.

People talk like this is Kindergarten social groups play-dates

Tell your kid this is how the real world works and what they will face as adults

The cutoff has changed to 8/1 and this is your new age group.
Go to training and put in the work or be a quitter

Yep, and clubs will have to face the adult reality of fewer customers if they manage things poorly.

Your sense of entitlement has removed all objective logical reality from your mind

Imagine seriously thinking your kid should be on a MLS Next team because of their birth month and demand this of a club

What's out-of-whack is thinking every soccer parent thinks their kid is going to be a college star. Some parents just want a club they've played at for most of their lives to treat them fairly. Nothing more and if they don't, they'll struggle with their bottom line, because those kids and families will move on as they should.

Clubs have been making decisions forever that pains many entitled parents who think little Chad and Lizzy should get whatever they want because they pay the fees

The clubs are still thriving even after you left

By fairly, you mean in your favor to your liking

Clubs thriving? In the time I've watched this space, I've seen plenty of clubs go out of business or have to merge with others. I guess you missed all that. Ignore market forces at your peril.

You're claiming normal market behavior as a feather in your argument cap?

Banks fail, merge
Software companies fail, merge
Hospitals fail, merge
Airlines fail, merge

Nothing you say will make your kid playing up a reality if they're not good enough to do so. Which they're obviously not or you wouldn't be politicking for same grade teams

If Aug birthdays aren't good enough for the correct grade A team welcome to the correct grade B team. Pretty simple

Except you would have to find a team willing to break their own rules to let a non star to play up if it exists. Or find a team to play on age

That makes no sense. The B team is players not good enough for the A team.

We'll be soon seeing a TON of B team players from Aug-Dec born join A teams. Bank on it!

Their B team skills gonna improve overnight?

Not the poster you are replying to, but yes they will improve RELATIVELY overnight when matched against the different age cohort. If you can't see this, I don't know what to tell you (yes the magnitude of course it depends on the specific age group)

Amen. True dat, elitists can't see the obvious.

So conversely Aug birthday players playing down will automatically get worse when playing with grade down cohorts.

Your confusing age with grades again. Grades aren't a thing in club soccer.

Last time I checked ECNL posts players graduation year on their profiles. I wonder why they would do that? Its almost like grade in scholl matters for something. What could it be?

It's so college coaches know when to expect them on campus.

So grade in school does matter and its because college recruiters use it to assess players.

Wouldn't want to be the one player playing down on a team with kids a grade below them. Easy way for recruiters to instant reject players.

Yes, because the recruiter sees the high quality of their current play, sees their strong potential for future play but decides not to recruit because of school grade

Here's the thing that's happening. These players wouldn't even be before the recruiter if they stay on grade on a B team, because the A team is just that good. And yet they have a chance with the A team on age OR it's a position issue. Sure, some coaches may not consider out of hand I guess, but on a lot of clubs the B teams don't get that kind of exposure period -- on the A teams. The A teams are the ones on the platform, get the travel to the big events. It's at least a foot in the door.

Another reason to group by grade as early as possible so correct grade B team players can move up to the correct grade A team when young.

Higher probability to play in college from playing on age than trying to play up when not ready and forced to merely because you went to school early. Highest probability to not play in college at all but will play longer if playing on age than playing up if not ready.

And this is why college coaches wont want aug birthdays playing down trojan horses.

Seriously, if you cant play with your grade how can you play against players 4 or more years older in college?

Easily. Playing on age is travel soccer rules and playing on grade is college soccer rules. Just play by the rules in both instances. Note that this is what Sept-Dec kids do now and what internals do.

The way to "Just play by the rules of both instances" is for young Aug-Dec players to play on the team that's their grade in school.

This is the issue. If you want to make Youth Soccer work for College recruiters then young players will need to play with their grade.

You might as well give up pushing for GY. You are on an island by yourself.

Nobody wants GY this is because it allows older players to play 1 sometimes 2 years down against younger players.

What people do want is SY 8/1-7/31 but with August birthdays playing with their grade team.

This makes it so all players at a game are graduating the same year. Which is what college recruiters want. But older players arent allowed to play down on younger teams. Which is what players and parents who are funding everything want.

Why do college recruiters want all players to be in the same school grade?

Are they taking a field trip after the game?

As much as people dont want to admit it recruiters do keep an eye out for players when attending games. If everyone playing is the same grade it makes it easier to identify players.

Also leagues tend to group teams by age and time when they play at events. What this means is say u13 games are at 8am when u15 games are at 11am or 12. This is done so certain age groups get the most exposure bevause these are the ones the recruiters want to see.

And yet crazy August hater doesn't chime in to point out that playing up a grade blocks you from getting seen by recruiters when people want their Sept-Dec staying on their current teams. This illustrates that he is trolling merely to help his DD become the oldest on her team and not because he actually thinks forcing grade year on everyone makes sense.

Looney tunes 👌

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny that the guy whos spreading the GY Showcase rumor is also trying to say that leagues dont want groupings by grade.

You just want club soccer to be like HS Soccer and you plan to hold your kid back if you can make it happen so they can be a 16yr old freshman.

What's funny is hardly anyone on this board argues for playing down by age. The only time it comes up is when you make this over-the-top point. Our biggest point of disagreement is you want a one-size fits all system where you force older kids to play by grade whereas the rest of us argue for flexibility based on skill/individual circumstance.

No, the biggest issue is you want to allow older players than the SY 8/1-7/31 eligibility window to play down. I want players younger than the SY 8/1-7/31 eligibility window to play up. Both achieve the same results. All players on the field are the same grade. But, my solution is much better for paying customers and the clubs that feed off them where as playing down tends to invite including ringers that dont pay for anything. Which in the end will cause less players to participate because they feel the games are rigged. HS grade year soccer only works because its free.

If people better understood calenders and math they'd agree that grouping players up by grade (A or B team) is a much better solution than the opposite. The issue is grouping by GY is what people know because its what HS does and sports jock meathead types aren't smart enough to think outside the box.

No, your solution hurts more than it helps, because your wide net would grab more players who have no business playing up, leading them to quit OR never really get seen to get recruited.

[Anonymous]

I mean, to add, how crazy this would be .. .It's like mandating like half of Jan b-days play up, well, just because.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny that the guy whos spreading the GY Showcase rumor is also trying to say that leagues dont want groupings by grade.

You just want club soccer to be like HS Soccer and you plan to hold your kid back if you can make it happen so they can be a 16yr old freshman.

What's funny is hardly anyone on this board argues for playing down by age. The only time it comes up is when you make this over-the-top point. Our biggest point of disagreement is you want a one-size fits all system where you force older kids to play by grade whereas the rest of us argue for flexibility based on skill/individual circumstance.

No, the biggest issue is you want to allow older players than the SY 8/1-7/31 eligibility window to play down. I want players younger than the SY 8/1-7/31 eligibility window to play up. Both achieve the same results. All players on the field are the same grade. But, my solution is much better for paying customers and the clubs that feed off them where as playing down tends to invite including ringers that dont pay for anything. Which in the end will cause less players to participate because they feel the games are rigged. HS grade year soccer only works because its free.

If people better understood calenders and math they'd agree that grouping players up by grade (A or B team) is a much better solution than the opposite. The issue is grouping by GY is what people know because its what HS does and sports jock meathead types aren't smart enough to think outside the box.

No, your solution hurts more than it helps, because your wide net would grab more players who have no business playing up, leading them to quit OR never really get seen to get recruited.

That's what B teams are for.

The issue is no matter how you split things up theres always going to be a few younger and older players that are a certain grade. Clubs will make more money haveing younger players play with their grade than the other way around. Older players playing down decimates teams and makes it so players dont want to play because XYZ team just brings ringers for wins. You see the complaints about older players playing down in MLS Next via biobanding for wins all the time. If this happens at every game eventually you either start biobanding or teams continue to lose and teams fall appart. If you have younger players playing up theres no arms race for older players to play down. Competition is more even and paying customs (parents) feel valued.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny that the guy whos spreading the GY Showcase rumor is also trying to say that leagues dont want groupings by grade.

You just want club soccer to be like HS Soccer and you plan to hold your kid back if you can make it happen so they can be a 16yr old freshman.

What's funny is hardly anyone on this board argues for playing down by age. The only time it comes up is when you make this over-the-top point. Our biggest point of disagreement is you want a one-size fits all system where you force older kids to play by grade whereas the rest of us argue for flexibility based on skill/individual circumstance.

No, the biggest issue is you want to allow older players than the SY 8/1-7/31 eligibility window to play down. I want players younger than the SY 8/1-7/31 eligibility window to play up. Both achieve the same results. All players on the field are the same grade. But, my solution is much better for paying customers and the clubs that feed off them where as playing down tends to invite including ringers that dont pay for anything. Which in the end will cause less players to participate because they feel the games are rigged. HS grade year soccer only works because its free.

If people better understood calenders and math they'd agree that grouping players up by grade (A or B team) is a much better solution than the opposite. The issue is grouping by GY is what people know because its what HS does and sports jock meathead types aren't smart enough to think outside the box.

No, your solution hurts more than it helps, because your wide net would grab more players who have no business playing up, leading them to quit OR never really get seen to get recruited.

That's what B teams are for.

The issue is no matter how you split things up theres always going to be a few younger and older players that are a certain grade. Clubs will make more money haveing younger players play with their grade than the other way around. Older players playing down decimates teams and makes it so players dont want to play because XYZ team just brings ringers for wins. You see the complaints about older players playing down in MLS Next via biobanding for wins all the time. If this happens at every game eventually you either start biobanding or teams continue to lose and teams fall appart. If you have younger players playing up theres no arms race for older players to play down. Competition is more even and paying customs (parents) feel valued.

Then they shouldn't have picked the 8/1 date. And yet they did. It's over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean, to add, how crazy this would be .. .It's like mandating like half of Jan b-days play up, well, just because.

It would be mandating that Aug and younger birthdays play with their grade.

This is a very small percentage of the players. I would guess under 5%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny that the guy whos spreading the GY Showcase rumor is also trying to say that leagues dont want groupings by grade.

You just want club soccer to be like HS Soccer and you plan to hold your kid back if you can make it happen so they can be a 16yr old freshman.

What's funny is hardly anyone on this board argues for playing down by age. The only time it comes up is when you make this over-the-top point. Our biggest point of disagreement is you want a one-size fits all system where you force older kids to play by grade whereas the rest of us argue for flexibility based on skill/individual circumstance.

No, the biggest issue is you want to allow older players than the SY 8/1-7/31 eligibility window to play down. I want players younger than the SY 8/1-7/31 eligibility window to play up. Both achieve the same results. All players on the field are the same grade. But, my solution is much better for paying customers and the clubs that feed off them where as playing down tends to invite including ringers that dont pay for anything. Which in the end will cause less players to participate because they feel the games are rigged. HS grade year soccer only works because its free.

If people better understood calenders and math they'd agree that grouping players up by grade (A or B team) is a much better solution than the opposite. The issue is grouping by GY is what people know because its what HS does and sports jock meathead types aren't smart enough to think outside the box.

No, your solution hurts more than it helps, because your wide net would grab more players who have no business playing up, leading them to quit OR never really get seen to get recruited.

That's what B teams are for.

The issue is no matter how you split things up theres always going to be a few younger and older players that are a certain grade. Clubs will make more money haveing younger players play with their grade than the other way around. Older players playing down decimates teams and makes it so players dont want to play because XYZ team just brings ringers for wins. You see the complaints about older players playing down in MLS Next via biobanding for wins all the time. If this happens at every game eventually you either start biobanding or teams continue to lose and teams fall appart. If you have younger players playing up theres no arms race for older players to play down. Competition is more even and paying customs (parents) feel valued.

Sorry, but I don't think there should be a difference for an August player that's in one grade or another. That's unfair to them. It's also unfair to ask them to play up, based on grade, because that puts them at a distinct disadvantage (on average). That would lead to more people quitting sooner than otherwise vs. the outliers who make it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, to add, how crazy this would be .. .It's like mandating like half of Jan b-days play up, well, just because.

It would be mandating that Aug and younger birthdays play with their grade.

This is a very small percentage of the players. I would guess under 5%.

I'm watching this in real-time, as people struggle with what they should do. It's more than 5% at my club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny that the guy whos spreading the GY Showcase rumor is also trying to say that leagues dont want groupings by grade.

You just want club soccer to be like HS Soccer and you plan to hold your kid back if you can make it happen so they can be a 16yr old freshman.

What's funny is hardly anyone on this board argues for playing down by age. The only time it comes up is when you make this over-the-top point. Our biggest point of disagreement is you want a one-size fits all system where you force older kids to play by grade whereas the rest of us argue for flexibility based on skill/individual circumstance.

No, the biggest issue is you want to allow older players than the SY 8/1-7/31 eligibility window to play down. I want players younger than the SY 8/1-7/31 eligibility window to play up. Both achieve the same results. All players on the field are the same grade. But, my solution is much better for paying customers and the clubs that feed off them where as playing down tends to invite including ringers that dont pay for anything. Which in the end will cause less players to participate because they feel the games are rigged. HS grade year soccer only works because its free.

If people better understood calenders and math they'd agree that grouping players up by grade (A or B team) is a much better solution than the opposite. The issue is grouping by GY is what people know because its what HS does and sports jock meathead types aren't smart enough to think outside the box.

No, your solution hurts more than it helps, because your wide net would grab more players who have no business playing up, leading them to quit OR never really get seen to get recruited.

That's what B teams are for.

The issue is no matter how you split things up theres always going to be a few younger and older players that are a certain grade. Clubs will make more money haveing younger players play with their grade than the other way around. Older players playing down decimates teams and makes it so players dont want to play because XYZ team just brings ringers for wins. You see the complaints about older players playing down in MLS Next via biobanding for wins all the time. If this happens at every game eventually you either start biobanding or teams continue to lose and teams fall appart. If you have younger players playing up theres no arms race for older players to play down. Competition is more even and paying customs (parents) feel valued.

Sorry, but I don't think there should be a difference for an August player that's in one grade or another. That's unfair to them. It's also unfair to ask them to play up, based on grade, because that puts them at a distinct disadvantage (on average). That would lead to more people quitting sooner than otherwise vs. the outliers who make it.

Sorry I dont think older players should be allowed to play down. That's unfair to everyone else. It's also unfair to ask them to play down, based on grade, because that puts them at a distinct advantage (on average). That would lead to more people quitting sooner than otherwise vs. the outliers who get an advantage from playjng down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, to add, how crazy this would be .. .It's like mandating like half of Jan b-days play up, well, just because.

It would be mandating that Aug and younger birthdays play with their grade.

This is a very small percentage of the players. I would guess under 5%.

I'm watching this in real-time, as people struggle with what they should do. It's more than 5% at my club.

Yep, I know of several in this situation at my kids club as well. Playing up with their grade seems to be where the parents are leaning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny that the guy whos spreading the GY Showcase rumor is also trying to say that leagues dont want groupings by grade.

You just want club soccer to be like HS Soccer and you plan to hold your kid back if you can make it happen so they can be a 16yr old freshman.

What's funny is hardly anyone on this board argues for playing down by age. The only time it comes up is when you make this over-the-top point. Our biggest point of disagreement is you want a one-size fits all system where you force older kids to play by grade whereas the rest of us argue for flexibility based on skill/individual circumstance.

No, the biggest issue is you want to allow older players than the SY 8/1-7/31 eligibility window to play down. I want players younger than the SY 8/1-7/31 eligibility window to play up. Both achieve the same results. All players on the field are the same grade. But, my solution is much better for paying customers and the clubs that feed off them where as playing down tends to invite including ringers that dont pay for anything. Which in the end will cause less players to participate because they feel the games are rigged. HS grade year soccer only works because its free.

If people better understood calenders and math they'd agree that grouping players up by grade (A or B team) is a much better solution than the opposite. The issue is grouping by GY is what people know because its what HS does and sports jock meathead types aren't smart enough to think outside the box.

No, your solution hurts more than it helps, because your wide net would grab more players who have no business playing up, leading them to quit OR never really get seen to get recruited.

That's what B teams are for.

The issue is no matter how you split things up theres always going to be a few younger and older players that are a certain grade. Clubs will make more money haveing younger players play with their grade than the other way around. Older players playing down decimates teams and makes it so players dont want to play because XYZ team just brings ringers for wins. You see the complaints about older players playing down in MLS Next via biobanding for wins all the time. If this happens at every game eventually you either start biobanding or teams continue to lose and teams fall appart. If you have younger players playing up theres no arms race for older players to play down. Competition is more even and paying customs (parents) feel valued.

Even if they did what you want, biobanding (and similar programs that exist) wouldn't go away, especially for June, July players.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, to add, how crazy this would be .. .It's like mandating like half of Jan b-days play up, well, just because.

It would be mandating that Aug and younger birthdays play with their grade.

This is a very small percentage of the players. I would guess under 5%.

I'm watching this in real-time, as people struggle with what they should do. It's more than 5% at my club.

Yep, I know of several in this situation at my kids club as well. Playing up with their grade seems to be where the parents are leaning.

I'm seeing it both ways. Some kids, especially older ones, want to stay with the team they've been on forever. Others, especially B teamers, are very interested in getting to the top level platform that they currently aren't on. That would be a game-changer for them, because they don't get seen at all if they stay where they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, to add, how crazy this would be .. .It's like mandating like half of Jan b-days play up, well, just because.

It would be mandating that Aug and younger birthdays play with their grade.

This is a very small percentage of the players. I would guess under 5%.

I'm watching this in real-time, as people struggle with what they should do. It's more than 5% at my club.

You are conflating 2 issues. Many parents/kids want a certain amount of stickiness considered by clubs to keep kids born Sept-Dec on teams an age group up and in a grade above their grade when SY starts next year. Looney tunes guy wants about half of August births to be forced (and if that doesn't work shamed or mislead) to play up an age group. Sticking it to about half the August kids is where the 5% comes from and coming up with this nonsense to try to reverse engineer GY would cause more problems than it solves.