Alec Baldwin fatally shot someone on movie set with gun mishap

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hannah is an easy blame. Alec pulled the trigger and killed Halyna.

Hannah killed Halyna. Legally and morally.

I disagree. She didn’t point the gun at Halyna and pull this trigger.

If someone accidentally hits and kills someone with their car, is the actual car responsible?

I think she is responsible because it was her job to make sure the gun was not loaded with live ammunition and could be safely used.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hannah is an easy blame. Alec pulled the trigger and killed Halyna.

Hannah killed Halyna. Legally and morally.

I disagree. She didn’t point the gun at Halyna and pull this trigger.

If someone accidentally hits and kills someone with their car, is the actual car responsible?

Is the mechanic who uninstalled the brakes responsible? Yes.

Alec should have checked the gun. Period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hannah is an easy blame. Alec pulled the trigger and killed Halyna.

Hannah killed Halyna. Legally and morally.

I disagree. She didn’t point the gun at Halyna and pull this trigger.

If someone accidentally hits and kills someone with their car, is the actual car responsible?

Is the mechanic who uninstalled the brakes responsible? Yes.

Alec should have checked the gun. Period.

I disagree. You go to the mechanic for failing breaks, he's in charge of that. You're 1. Not going to expect your brakes would fail right after fixing 2. Not going to check your brakes, you wouldn't know what you're doing anyway. Why would an actor think a real bullet is loaded, and how would they know what's a blank and what's not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I caught covid and was out sick so watched most of the trial and have been watching the last few days on recordings of Court TV in the evening after work.

I’m a former defense attorney and prosecutor so bring that perspective.

I’m not surprised the jury found her guilty and didn’t appear to deliberate long. She had an excellent defense attorney who did his best to raise reasonable doubt, but she was clearly negligent in her duties to a reckless degree. She was getting high in the evenings and she was doing all kinds of crappy work on set, the prosecutor started her closing showing a series of photos of actors and stunt people pointing guns at each other while holding weapons on set and she was right there and did nothing. Even *if* there were no live rounds on set you are always supposed to follow gun safety rules and she didn’t enforce them on set - whether because she was hungover or high or whether she suffered the same syndrome many young women in power do, she was people pleasing and didn’t want to be the bad guy calling folks out for not following the training it doesn’t matter, she was negligent in a lot of ways before a live round found its way into that revolver and then through Halyna Hutchins’s chest. The day of the shooting she had hours to check the dummies before the scenes were shot and she obviously didn’t do it or she would have caught the live round.

And while I previously defended Baldwin I now believe after hearing the testimony of several firearms experts that he DID pull the trigger and he is also guilty. I’m interested to see if he goes to trial after his lawyers watched the state’s case here and saw the evidence that was presented and will be presented in June/July at his trial if he goes. I suspect he’ll be found guilty if he does take it to trial.

It was a totally senseless death, I feel so sorry for her son and husband.

If the gun had properly been loaded with blanks, wouldn't the scene require him to pull the trigger? Wasn't he just doing what he was supposed to do?

The whole point of using blanks rather than no bullets and adding in effects later is to film the discharge from the muzzle. The director had him placed so that he was aiming at the camera, for maximum visual impact.

Whether he thinks he pulled the trigger or thinks he didn't and the gun just went off (as is supposedly impossible but as the gun had already done the day before), I don't see that it matters.

Again, I watched the trial testimony - and you clearly didn't.

The scene didn't call for him to pull the trigger. It didn't call for him to point the gun at the cinematographer and director standing behind her.

A number of firearms experts testified that the gun doesn't fire without the trigger being applied, and it takes very little pressure once the gun is cocked which Baldwin admitted doing. There is footage of Baldwin drawing the weapon and having his meaty finger within the trigger guard - very reasonable for the jury to assume he did the exact same thing when he shot and killed the cinematographer.

The FBI firearms experts subjected the gun to extensive trauma to see if it would fire without the trigger being pulled - it would not.

I don't know if he was screwing around or what, only he knows that and he'll likely never be truthful about it. But his actions meet the definition of involuntary manslaughter under the sub B of the New Mexico statute.

[Anonymous]

Wasn't Baldwin goofing around when he pulled the trigger? In that case I say he was responsible. If he had shot only as directed by the director in the scene then no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hannah is an easy blame. Alec pulled the trigger and killed Halyna.

Hannah killed Halyna. Legally and morally.

I disagree. She didn’t point the gun at Halyna and pull this trigger.

If someone accidentally hits and kills someone with their car, is the actual car responsible?

Is the mechanic who uninstalled the brakes responsible? Yes.

Alec should have checked the gun. Period.

I disagree. You go to the mechanic for failing breaks, he's in charge of that. You're 1. Not going to expect your brakes would fail right after fixing 2. Not going to check your brakes, you wouldn't know what you're doing anyway. Why would an actor think a real bullet is loaded, and how would they know what's a blank and what's not?

The analogy to me is more like you thought the brakes were fixed so you decide to accelerate at your friend to scare them and then you can't brake at the last minute and kill them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope Baldwin also gets found guilty and sentenced, but I know he won't. He always gets off clean.

I have no love for Baldwin but there is no way I would hold an actor responsible for firing a gun that was supposed to be empty of live ammo, or throwing a dummy grenade that turned out to be real, or stabbing someone with a blade that was supposed to retract. This was a movie set and Hall or the armorer handed him a loaded weapon and told him it was safe to fire. The jury will not convict him.

I agree. And I think he pulled the trigger because he didn’t think it was loaded. It was not supposed to be. (I know he says he didn’t pull the trigger).

Every gun is a loaded gun until you verify otherwise. Any responsible gun owners on the jury, and he's toast if that's the defense

Hundreds of pages on this and you all still don’t get it. It’s not the actor’s responsibility to do this - the actor may or may not know ANYTHING about guns. When an actor on a set is handed a gun it’s not different than being handed any other prop. It was the armorer’s responsibility to make sure that the gun was safe and the armorer was just found guilty of not doing that. Baldwin may have civil liability as one of the many producers of the movie that hired this recklessly incompetent armorer, but he should not be criminally responsible.

Lots of posts about Alec's lack of responsibility for this incident. Again, I initially defended him, but after seeing days of testimony and footage from the film set, I won't anymore.

He said himself on ABC interview that he knows better than to EVER point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, whether he's been told it's a cold gun or not.

BUT HE DID PULL THE TRIGGER, WHILE POINTING IT AT TWO PEOPLE.

I'm sure he'll have a talented defense attorney at trial, as did the armorer - her very capable attorney made the case against Baldwin along with the state, by the way. And this trial was also a rehearsal for the one in July. It will be a different jury, but I doubt very much they won't find him criminally liable.

NM Stat § 30-2-3 (2021)
Manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice.

A. Voluntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed upon a sudden quarrel or in the heat of passion.

Whoever commits voluntary manslaughter is guilty of a third degree felony resulting in the death of a human being.

B. Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection.

Whoever commits involuntary manslaughter is guilty of a fourth degree felony.

Pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger when you have not checked yourself to make sure it is completely safe is definitely acting without due caution and circumspection.

There is abundant footage from the set that establishes how much Alec was in control on that set - he was driving the speed of filming as much if not more than the director. My guess is everyone was cowed to Baldwin's demands to get this crap film over with ASAP. OSHA found him and the other management structure responsible for the safety violations and the death that occurred. I think a New Mexico jury is going to convict him of the crime, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I caught covid and was out sick so watched most of the trial and have been watching the last few days on recordings of Court TV in the evening after work.

I’m a former defense attorney and prosecutor so bring that perspective.

I’m not surprised the jury found her guilty and didn’t appear to deliberate long. She had an excellent defense attorney who did his best to raise reasonable doubt, but she was clearly negligent in her duties to a reckless degree. She was getting high in the evenings and she was doing all kinds of crappy work on set, the prosecutor started her closing showing a series of photos of actors and stunt people pointing guns at each other while holding weapons on set and she was right there and did nothing. Even *if* there were no live rounds on set you are always supposed to follow gun safety rules and she didn’t enforce them on set - whether because she was hungover or high or whether she suffered the same syndrome many young women in power do, she was people pleasing and didn’t want to be the bad guy calling folks out for not following the training it doesn’t matter, she was negligent in a lot of ways before a live round found its way into that revolver and then through Halyna Hutchins’s chest. The day of the shooting she had hours to check the dummies before the scenes were shot and she obviously didn’t do it or she would have caught the live round.

And while I previously defended Baldwin I now believe after hearing the testimony of several firearms experts that he DID pull the trigger and he is also guilty. I’m interested to see if he goes to trial after his lawyers watched the state’s case here and saw the evidence that was presented and will be presented in June/July at his trial if he goes. I suspect he’ll be found guilty if he does take it to trial.

It was a totally senseless death, I feel so sorry for her son and husband.

If the gun had properly been loaded with blanks, wouldn't the scene require him to pull the trigger? Wasn't he just doing what he was supposed to do?

The whole point of using blanks rather than no bullets and adding in effects later is to film the discharge from the muzzle. The director had him placed so that he was aiming at the camera, for maximum visual impact.

Whether he thinks he pulled the trigger or thinks he didn't and the gun just went off (as is supposedly impossible but as the gun had already done the day before), I don't see that it matters.

Again, I watched the trial testimony - and you clearly didn't.

The scene didn't call for him to pull the trigger. It didn't call for him to point the gun at the cinematographer and director standing behind her.

A number of firearms experts testified that the gun doesn't fire without the trigger being applied, and it takes very little pressure once the gun is cocked which Baldwin admitted doing. There is footage of Baldwin drawing the weapon and having his meaty finger within the trigger guard - very reasonable for the jury to assume he did the exact same thing when he shot and killed the cinematographer.

The FBI firearms experts subjected the gun to extensive trauma to see if it would fire without the trigger being pulled - it would not.

I don't know if he was screwing around or what, only he knows that and he'll likely never be truthful about it. But his actions meet the definition of involuntary manslaughter under the sub B of the New Mexico statute.

I didn't watch the trial testimony, no. He wasn't supposed to aim the gun at the cinematographer? He was supposed to aim it somewhere else?

The gun had misfired earlier, it had gone off without being touched. The gun was known to be a problem. Known by the armorer (who was found guilty). Known by the first assistant director (who pled guilty). Known by Baldwin? I don't know and they apparently didn't show that at Hannah's trial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hannah is an easy blame. Alec pulled the trigger and killed Halyna.

Hannah killed Halyna. Legally and morally.

I disagree. She didn’t point the gun at Halyna and pull this trigger.

If someone accidentally hits and kills someone with their car, is the actual car responsible?

Is the mechanic who uninstalled the brakes responsible? Yes.

Alec should have checked the gun. Period.

I disagree. You go to the mechanic for failing breaks, he's in charge of that. You're 1. Not going to expect your brakes would fail right after fixing 2. Not going to check your brakes, you wouldn't know what you're doing anyway. Why would an actor think a real bullet is loaded, and how would they know what's a blank and what's not?

The analogy to me is more like you thought the brakes were fixed so you decide to accelerate at your friend to scare them and then you can't brake at the last minute and kill them.

I don't think it'd be your fault then. How would that be a foreseeable consequence since you precisely had someone in charge of the brakes? I could see if no mechanic had checked the brakes right before. In the Alec Baldwin scenario, the mechanic is right there supervising your operation of the car.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I caught covid and was out sick so watched most of the trial and have been watching the last few days on recordings of Court TV in the evening after work.

I’m a former defense attorney and prosecutor so bring that perspective.

I’m not surprised the jury found her guilty and didn’t appear to deliberate long. She had an excellent defense attorney who did his best to raise reasonable doubt, but she was clearly negligent in her duties to a reckless degree. She was getting high in the evenings and she was doing all kinds of crappy work on set, the prosecutor started her closing showing a series of photos of actors and stunt people pointing guns at each other while holding weapons on set and she was right there and did nothing. Even *if* there were no live rounds on set you are always supposed to follow gun safety rules and she didn’t enforce them on set - whether because she was hungover or high or whether she suffered the same syndrome many young women in power do, she was people pleasing and didn’t want to be the bad guy calling folks out for not following the training it doesn’t matter, she was negligent in a lot of ways before a live round found its way into that revolver and then through Halyna Hutchins’s chest. The day of the shooting she had hours to check the dummies before the scenes were shot and she obviously didn’t do it or she would have caught the live round.

And while I previously defended Baldwin I now believe after hearing the testimony of several firearms experts that he DID pull the trigger and he is also guilty. I’m interested to see if he goes to trial after his lawyers watched the state’s case here and saw the evidence that was presented and will be presented in June/July at his trial if he goes. I suspect he’ll be found guilty if he does take it to trial.

It was a totally senseless death, I feel so sorry for her son and husband.

If the gun had properly been loaded with blanks, wouldn't the scene require him to pull the trigger? Wasn't he just doing what he was supposed to do?

The whole point of using blanks rather than no bullets and adding in effects later is to film the discharge from the muzzle. The director had him placed so that he was aiming at the camera, for maximum visual impact.

Whether he thinks he pulled the trigger or thinks he didn't and the gun just went off (as is supposedly impossible but as the gun had already done the day before), I don't see that it matters.

Again, I watched the trial testimony - and you clearly didn't.

The scene didn't call for him to pull the trigger. It didn't call for him to point the gun at the cinematographer and director standing behind her.

A number of firearms experts testified that the gun doesn't fire without the trigger being applied, and it takes very little pressure once the gun is cocked which Baldwin admitted doing. There is footage of Baldwin drawing the weapon and having his meaty finger within the trigger guard - very reasonable for the jury to assume he did the exact same thing when he shot and killed the cinematographer.

The FBI firearms experts subjected the gun to extensive trauma to see if it would fire without the trigger being pulled - it would not.

I don't know if he was screwing around or what, only he knows that and he'll likely never be truthful about it. But his actions meet the definition of involuntary manslaughter under the sub B of the New Mexico statute.

I didn't watch the trial testimony, no. He wasn't supposed to aim the gun at the cinematographer? He was supposed to aim it somewhere else?

The gun had misfired earlier, it had gone off without being touched. The gun was known to be a problem. Known by the armorer (who was found guilty). Known by the first assistant director (who pled guilty). Known by Baldwin? I don't know and they apparently didn't show that at Hannah's trial.

I am chocked she did not get more jail time. She was reckless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one who kind of feels bad for this girl?

Not excusing irresponsibility and of course it’s tragic that the woman died as a result. But she seemed totally unqualified for the role and someone should’ve known better than to hire her. It would be like picking up a random receptionist at a medical facility and putting them in charge of brain surgery.

She’s so young (or was at the time) and will have to live with this for the rest of her life…

Her father (too lazy to look up his name) is a well-known movie set armorer/expert. I believe this was nepotism at its very worst; supposedly she was trained by her father and thus her name alone likely got her hired. I also think this was her first jobs.

Her father is Thell Reed. He was an absentee father and Hannah only hyphenated his last name when she started working. I wouldn't be surprised if he had never trained her.

You are speculating, and very incorrectly.

There was ABUNDANT evidence entered into the record that she spent extesive periods of time with her stepfather Thell Reed on movie sets learning the art of being an armorer. Rust was her second job as lead armorer; she had previously served as lead armorer on The Old Way where she incurred the wrath of Nicholas Cage https://www.thewrap.com/rust-armorer-inexperience-hannah-gutierrez-fired-nicolas-cage-film/

I think she had plenty of opportunity to learn the craft at her stepfather's elbow, but she's a non-serious person who should never have taken up such a serious profession. She needs a job at the payment window at McD's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hannah is an easy blame. Alec pulled the trigger and killed Halyna.

Hannah killed Halyna. Legally and morally.

I disagree. She didn’t point the gun at Halyna and pull this trigger.

If someone accidentally hits and kills someone with their car, is the actual car responsible?

Is the mechanic who uninstalled the brakes responsible? Yes.

Alec should have checked the gun. Period.

I disagree. You go to the mechanic for failing breaks, he's in charge of that. You're 1. Not going to expect your brakes would fail right after fixing 2. Not going to check your brakes, you wouldn't know what you're doing anyway. Why would an actor think a real bullet is loaded, and how would they know what's a blank and what's not?

You can usually tell a blank vs a live round by visual markings.

Even so, blanks are dangerous and you can shot at a person with blanks without putting them in lethal danger.

So multiple mistakes here and someone is dead and a second person shot as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I caught covid and was out sick so watched most of the trial and have been watching the last few days on recordings of Court TV in the evening after work.

I’m a former defense attorney and prosecutor so bring that perspective.

I’m not surprised the jury found her guilty and didn’t appear to deliberate long. She had an excellent defense attorney who did his best to raise reasonable doubt, but she was clearly negligent in her duties to a reckless degree. She was getting high in the evenings and she was doing all kinds of crappy work on set, the prosecutor started her closing showing a series of photos of actors and stunt people pointing guns at each other while holding weapons on set and she was right there and did nothing. Even *if* there were no live rounds on set you are always supposed to follow gun safety rules and she didn’t enforce them on set - whether because she was hungover or high or whether she suffered the same syndrome many young women in power do, she was people pleasing and didn’t want to be the bad guy calling folks out for not following the training it doesn’t matter, she was negligent in a lot of ways before a live round found its way into that revolver and then through Halyna Hutchins’s chest. The day of the shooting she had hours to check the dummies before the scenes were shot and she obviously didn’t do it or she would have caught the live round.

And while I previously defended Baldwin I now believe after hearing the testimony of several firearms experts that he DID pull the trigger and he is also guilty. I’m interested to see if he goes to trial after his lawyers watched the state’s case here and saw the evidence that was presented and will be presented in June/July at his trial if he goes. I suspect he’ll be found guilty if he does take it to trial.

It was a totally senseless death, I feel so sorry for her son and husband.

If the gun had properly been loaded with blanks, wouldn't the scene require him to pull the trigger? Wasn't he just doing what he was supposed to do?

The whole point of using blanks rather than no bullets and adding in effects later is to film the discharge from the muzzle. The director had him placed so that he was aiming at the camera, for maximum visual impact.

Whether he thinks he pulled the trigger or thinks he didn't and the gun just went off (as is supposedly impossible but as the gun had already done the day before), I don't see that it matters.

Again, I watched the trial testimony - and you clearly didn't.

The scene didn't call for him to pull the trigger. It didn't call for him to point the gun at the cinematographer and director standing behind her.

A number of firearms experts testified that the gun doesn't fire without the trigger being applied, and it takes very little pressure once the gun is cocked which Baldwin admitted doing. There is footage of Baldwin drawing the weapon and having his meaty finger within the trigger guard - very reasonable for the jury to assume he did the exact same thing when he shot and killed the cinematographer.

The FBI firearms experts subjected the gun to extensive trauma to see if it would fire without the trigger being pulled - it would not.

I don't know if he was screwing around or what, only he knows that and he'll likely never be truthful about it. But his actions meet the definition of involuntary manslaughter under the sub B of the New Mexico statute.

I didn't watch the trial testimony, no. He wasn't supposed to aim the gun at the cinematographer? He was supposed to aim it somewhere else?

The gun had misfired earlier, it had gone off without being touched. The gun was known to be a problem. Known by the armorer (who was found guilty). Known by the first assistant director (who pled guilty). Known by Baldwin? I don't know and they apparently didn't show that at Hannah's trial.

I am chocked she did not get more jail time. She was reckless.

She hasn't been sentenced yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hannah is an easy blame. Alec pulled the trigger and killed Halyna.

Hannah killed Halyna. Legally and morally.

I disagree. She didn’t point the gun at Halyna and pull this trigger.

If someone accidentally hits and kills someone with their car, is the actual car responsible?

Is the mechanic who uninstalled the brakes responsible? Yes.

Alec should have checked the gun. Period.

I disagree. You go to the mechanic for failing breaks, he's in charge of that. You're 1. Not going to expect your brakes would fail right after fixing 2. Not going to check your brakes, you wouldn't know what you're doing anyway. Why would an actor think a real bullet is loaded, and how would they know what's a blank and what's not?

You can usually tell a blank vs a live round by visual markings.

Even so, blanks are dangerous and you can shot at a person with blanks without putting them in lethal danger.

So multiple mistakes here and someone is dead and a second person shot as well.

Can't*

[Anonymous]

Alec should have checked the gun. Period.

You are clearly uneducated regarding who is responsible for what on a film set.