Succession - Season 4

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now Shiv has no ownership and is married to a man who hates her and is her boss. Fun

I hate this ending for Shiv, it makes her the worst of the siblings.

How so?

To me the ending shows how they are all miserable and always were and always will be. I think the truest part of the whole show was Roman saying “this is nothing, we are nothing” during the fight during the board meeting. None of them deserve it, none of them really even want it except to try and prove something, and it isn’t even something worth wanting anyway. It’s shallow and meaningless and it will not fill the hole in their hearts.

[Anonymous]

On which podcast does Strong explain the ending?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shiv sold out and is becoming her mom.

I don’t see this. She didn’t vote yes to the deal so that she could be taken care of by Tom. She’s a billionaire on her own and does not need Tom’s money, even his CEO money. After the GoJo deal, she’s even richer because Matsson is giving them above market price for shares.

I think she really just realized/remembered that Kendall would be a train wreck as CEO, plus started thinking about her baby and whatever semblance of family she has. She What would she gain, really, with Kendall as CEO? Spiting Tom (father of her child) and Matsson. But nothing really for her. She made a rational choice after toying with making an emotional choice. But there really are not a lot of Caroline parallels.

Shiv voted in her own self-interest. She saw/knew Kendall couldn't cut it and would also cut her out, and she knows Tom will always take her back.

Agree, she wanted to be loyal to her siblings but in the end realized Kendall was not cut out for the top job. Also agree it was a rational choice. Had it been emotional she would have stuck with her siblings, partly out of spite toward Matsson for screwing her over. Hard to feel remotely sorry for any of them given they'll be unfathomably rich from this deal. Love Roman's "we're nothing, we're bs" echoing Logan's "I love you but you're not serious people." As cruel as he was, he had sharp instincts and knew, sadly, none of them had what it took to be his successor. Still not sold on Tom for the top job though.

The perfect front man, what Matsson wanted. Shiv wanted to be a partner, he had no interest in that (plus is deeply sexist). Tom gets to front power and be filthy rich. Can handle the day-to-day, doesn't care about being a mere mouthpiece for the real power. He'll do exactly what Mattson wants, will continue with his servility in that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now Shiv has no ownership and is married to a man who hates her and is her boss. Fun

I hate this ending for Shiv, it makes her the worst of the siblings.

Disagree. She was the only one being rational versus emotional. None of the siblings could do the job. Logan knew it, and she understood that in the end.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think Shiv changed her vote because she knew Ken couldn’t do it; she chose to be closest to power, and that is staying with Tom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Shiv changed her vote because she knew Ken couldn’t do it; she chose to be closest to power, and that is staying with Tom.

+1. Sad that she didn't do it for the perfectly legitimate reason of choosing one's spouse over one's siblings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Shiv changed her vote because she knew Ken couldn’t do it; she chose to be closest to power, and that is staying with Tom.

Maybe a mix of both, but I think she was sincere in saying Ken couldn't do it. And why would she need to stay close to power? The Gojo deal made her far richer than Tom the frontman will ever be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is my prediction for the ending:

The old guard thwart Ken and Roman's attempts to kill the deal and Matsson takes control. Matsson ends up putting Tom in charge (as he understands hi the company) in some way that causes both men to betray Shiv.

Tom wins.

Congrats to whoever posted this May 2!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Shiv changed her vote because she knew Ken couldn’t do it; she chose to be closest to power, and that is staying with Tom.

Maybe a mix of both, but I think she was sincere in saying Ken couldn't do it. And why would she need to stay close to power? The Gojo deal made her far richer than Tom the frontman will ever be.

Because they all know - plainly stated in the season 1 finale - that anyone can be super rich; they need the company to have power.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Shiv changed her vote because she knew Ken couldn’t do it; she chose to be closest to power, and that is staying with Tom.

Maybe a mix of both, but I think she was sincere in saying Ken couldn't do it. And why would she need to stay close to power? The Gojo deal made her far richer than Tom the frontman will ever be.

Because they all know - plainly stated in the season 1 finale - that anyone can be super rich; they need the company to have power.

Sure, but what does mere proximity to power get her?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Shiv changed her vote because she knew Ken couldn’t do it; she chose to be closest to power, and that is staying with Tom.

Maybe a mix of both, but I think she was sincere in saying Ken couldn't do it. And why would she need to stay close to power? The Gojo deal made her far richer than Tom the frontman will ever be.

Because they all know - plainly stated in the season 1 finale - that anyone can be super rich; they need the company to have power.

Sure, but what does mere proximity to power get her?

Yes, especially since Tom will just be executing Mattson's wishes. Shiv will have zero input.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Shiv changed her vote because she knew Ken couldn’t do it; she chose to be closest to power, and that is staying with Tom.

Maybe a mix of both, but I think she was sincere in saying Ken couldn't do it. And why would she need to stay close to power? The Gojo deal made her far richer than Tom the frontman will ever be.

Because they all know - plainly stated in the season 1 finale - that anyone can be super rich; they need the company to have power.

Sure, but what does mere proximity to power get her?

Yes, especially since Tom will just be executing Mattson's wishes. Shiv will have zero input.

If anything, it leaves her in a deeply humiliating position with respect to both men who betrayed her, now tight allies. Married to one who is nothing but a pale shadow of the father who built that empire, and whom she'll never actually respect.

[Anonymous]

Shivs decision was of pure emotional spite - she could not stomach Kendall getting CEO and she was willing to tank it all to prevent it. She has shown herself to be solely motivated toward control and the CEO position without a care for the collateral in her wake including not caring a wit if that involves her brother or husband going to prison (!).

Tom makes sense and yes, he was willing to put in the work and take a roll being frontman for the development of his career - something most people do as they rise through the ranks. Shiv was never willing to do this - she expected someone like Mattson who had built a company to accept someone like her who has zero experience managing anything and is fueled by entitlement to position. She scoffed at any training under her Dad. She just expected to be given things without ever having to do any of the work. Mattson never took her seriously and used her ego to play her. She, along with her siblings, were never prepared to take on leadership roles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Shivs decision was of pure emotional spite - she could not stomach Kendall getting CEO and she was willing to tank it all to prevent it. She has shown herself to be solely motivated toward control and the CEO position without a care for the collateral in her wake including not caring a wit if that involves her brother or husband going to prison (!).

Tom makes sense and yes, he was willing to put in the work and take a roll being frontman for the development of his career - something most people do as they rise through the ranks. Shiv was never willing to do this - she expected someone like Mattson who had built a company to accept someone like her who has zero experience managing anything and is fueled by entitlement to position. She scoffed at any training under her Dad. She just expected to be given things without ever having to do any of the work. Mattson never took her seriously and used her ego to play her. She, along with her siblings, were never prepared to take on leadership roles.

I don't think it's that simple. Mattson and Tom betrayed her more than her siblings ever would. With Kendall in charge, she would be guaranteed a role in the company and at least some say. With the new regime, she gets nothing but proceeds from sale. I'm with PPs who think she genuinely believes Kendal would not do a good job.

[Anonymous]

I think Shiv is a far more complex character than either Kendall or Roman.

On a personal front, I think she loves Tom in the only way she knows how. Same with her baby. I took the ending to signify that Shiv is at least going to attempt a happy family for her baby. Maybe that’s way too optimistic.

I think she was the most competent Roy child - and could’ve been CEO - but her dad and then brothers dismissed her because she lacked experience and because sexism. Nobody had her back - not even her husband! - but in an alternative reality she could’ve taken over for Logan.