Capitol Hill Middle School and High School situation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We live in the Jefferson catchment area. We're Asian-American.

Where are the Asian students at Jefferson? We should send our kid to be one of a handful of Asians in his cohort, or perhaps the only one.

No thanks.

Not OP, but asian. BASIS via lottery

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jefferson appears to be stuck at around 2% white. Has been for 4 or 5 years now. Not much more to say.

This is what's called a "racist" and "supremacist" post because it implies something about Black students that makes a school "stuck" if (only?) "2%" Whites attend it. The non-racist version of this might be to point out how all students are doing at Jefferson Academy, maybe pointing out that Jefferson Academy has both Black and White, and some Latino, high achieving students. The anti-racist may add that the reason why from among the students who lag behind most are Black is because they predominantly come from elementary schools that sit in subpar neighborhoods, plagued by poor housing conditions, poor healthcare, community trauma through gun violence, high teacher turn-over, spotty and infrequent public transportation, environmental challenges etc. The anti-racist might also stress that the metrics by which we determine who is highly or not highly proficient are themselves racist, favoring inherently higher ratings for White students.

More directly on the topic: Once you understand all of this - statistically - you will also understand that the above statement is, in addition, irrelevant.

This is exactly why that brooking report was spot on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Got it. More than 90% of us leave Brent for BASIS, Latin, private schools, the burbs, homeschool classrooms, and other parts of the country and world because we're irrational at best, fools and iniquitous racists at worst.

Having Jefferson Academy as our by-right middle school is clearly a pearls-before-pigs situation in light of our willful ignorance of the manifold wonders of the program.

After all, what could possibly count more than stellar PARCC scores for a dozen white kids in a school with hundreds of students?

All I said is that the hard data does not support the proposition that UMC kids are unlikely to succeed at Jefferson. And I fully stand by that.

I did not in any way cast aspersions on those who choose a different path. Frankly, I don't know why you're being so defensive about this.

And you have a very limited definition of what “succeed” means, and also presumtuous to believe that no UMC needs more attention.

OMG. Once again, all I said is that the hard data does not support the proposition that UMC kids are unlikely to succeed at Jefferson. As far as I am aware, test scores are the only hard data we have on this point. And I am nearly certain that if the PARCC performance of those "dozen white kids" had been either poor or mediocre, people would be on here touting it as clear evidence of Jefferson's failings. But they can't -- because the results are stellar.

And, once again, I did not cast aspersions on those who make a different choice. Nor did I in any way suggest that Jefferson is the right choice for everyone (UMC or not).

Does it really bother you so much that someone has highlighted one apparently positive aspect of Jefferson Academy through the use of data?

[Anonymous]

NP. Meeting benchmarks and testing to grade level standards is one thing for elementary school. By middle school a child needs to be challenged to achieve their full potential and taught how to work hard to overcome challenges. Scoring a 5 on PARCC shows they meet benchmarks, but has nothing to do with whether they are being held to THEIR highest standard. So I personally don’t care about white kids’ test scores except when they’re being held up to show the school should be “good enough.” When that happens I know to look much more closely at what is actually happening in the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jefferson appears to be stuck at around 2% white. Has been for 4 or 5 years now. Not much more to say.

This is what's called a "racist" and "supremacist" post because it implies something about Black students that makes a school "stuck" if (only?) "2%" Whites attend it. The non-racist version of this might be to point out how all students are doing at Jefferson Academy, maybe pointing out that Jefferson Academy has both Black and White, and some Latino, high achieving students. The anti-racist may add that the reason why from among the students who lag behind most are Black is because they predominantly come from elementary schools that sit in subpar neighborhoods, plagued by poor housing conditions, poor healthcare, community trauma through gun violence, high teacher turn-over, spotty and infrequent public transportation, environmental challenges etc. The anti-racist might also stress that the metrics by which we determine who is highly or not highly proficient are themselves racist, favoring inherently higher ratings for White students.

More directly on the topic: Once you understand all of this - statistically - you will also understand that the above statement is, in addition, irrelevant.

This is exactly why that brooking report was spot on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Got it. More than 90% of us leave Brent for BASIS, Latin, private schools, the burbs, homeschool classrooms, and other parts of the country and world because we're irrational at best, fools and iniquitous racists at worst.

Having Jefferson Academy as our by-right middle school is clearly a pearls-before-pigs situation in light of our willful ignorance of the manifold wonders of the program.

After all, what could possibly count more than stellar PARCC scores for a dozen white kids in a school with hundreds of students?

All I said is that the hard data does not support the proposition that UMC kids are unlikely to succeed at Jefferson. And I fully stand by that.

I did not in any way cast aspersions on those who choose a different path. Frankly, I don't know why you're being so defensive about this.

And you have a very limited definition of what “succeed” means, and also presumtuous to believe that no UMC needs more attention.

OMG. Once again, all I said is that the hard data does not support the proposition that UMC kids are unlikely to succeed at Jefferson. As far as I am aware, test scores are the only hard data we have on this point. And I am nearly certain that if the PARCC performance of those "dozen white kids" had been either poor or mediocre, people would be on here touting it as clear evidence of Jefferson's failings. But they can't -- because the results are stellar.

And, once again, I did not cast aspersions on those who make a different choice. Nor did I in any way suggest that Jefferson is the right choice for everyone (UMC or not).

Does it really bother you so much that someone has highlighted one apparently positive aspect of Jefferson Academy through the use of data?

We don't have "hard data" for every educational choice, and not all of us are going to wait around for the double-blind RCT trial or whatever. I'm happy that some kids (of all colors) are passing the PARCC at Jefferson. The overall picture is not good enough for my kid. Too risky. And to say "he'll be fine, he's white" raises all sorts of other questions ...

[Anonymous]

That’s fine. Nobody said Jefferson Academy is right (or “good enough”) for your kid specifically. You don’t need to justify your individual decision here. My response was to the claim in a prior post that UMC kids in general are not likely to do well there. I disputed that claim based on data. That’s all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. Meeting benchmarks and testing to grade level standards is one thing for elementary school. By middle school a child needs to be challenged to achieve their full potential and taught how to work hard to overcome challenges. Scoring a 5 on PARCC shows they meet benchmarks, but has nothing to do with whether they are being held to THEIR highest standard. So I personally don’t care about white kids’ test scores except when they’re being held up to show the school should be “good enough.” When that happens I know to look much more closely at what is actually happening in the classroom.

THIS. Just because they are on grade level on PARCC does not mean that they are reaching their full potential. All those BS studies that says high SES kids will do fine in low performing schools - their definition of fine is going to college. That’s a given.

Show me a rigorous back to back study of similarly high SES kids going to Jefferson/Eastern vs going to Basis and compare their outcomes on SAT scores, AP exams, GPA at similarly ranked colleges, etc…. That is a real study to look at outcomes, not just going to college.

I don’t need the study above to know the answer. Just talk to any high school teacher in a poorly performing school what percentages of their kids fail out of college, struggle in college, etc….

Academic peer group matters a lot in middle and high school. Those that don’t think so, feel free to send your kid to Jefferson.

BTW I’m not white either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Meeting benchmarks and testing to grade level standards is one thing for elementary school. By middle school a child needs to be challenged to achieve their full potential and taught how to work hard to overcome challenges. Scoring a 5 on PARCC shows they meet benchmarks, but has nothing to do with whether they are being held to THEIR highest standard. So I personally don’t care about white kids’ test scores except when they’re being held up to show the school should be “good enough.” When that happens I know to look much more closely at what is actually happening in the classroom.

THIS. Just because they are on grade level on PARCC does not mean that they are reaching their full potential. All those BS studies that says high SES kids will do fine in low performing schools - their definition of fine is going to college. That’s a given.

Show me a rigorous back to back study of similarly high SES kids going to Jefferson/Eastern vs going to Basis and compare their outcomes on SAT scores, AP exams, GPA at similarly ranked colleges, etc…. That is a real study to look at outcomes, not just going to college.

I don’t need the study above to know the answer. Just talk to any high school teacher in a poorly performing school what percentages of their kids fail out of college, struggle in college, etc….

Academic peer group matters a lot in middle and high school. Those that don’t think so, feel free to send your kid to Jefferson.

BTW I’m not white either.

I happen to know a number of the high SES kids who've gone through Brent and on to Jefferson Academy in the last few years, from the neighborhood. I'd wager that these particular kids will ultimately do just fine in HS and college. It's not difficult to picture them having great careers eventually. These kids come from brainy, adventurous, resourceful families where reading voraciously for fun is standard. The UMC families who choose JA tend to be close-knit.

I don't want my own children to attend Jefferson Academy for a variety of reasons. That said, I'm not convinced, or concerned, that the UMC Brent grads who end up at JA for middle school will be hurt by poor or mediocre educational outcomes down the track.

[Anonymous]

Would those UMC kids scoring 5s have done so regardless of where they attended school? Does JA really have anything to do with those scores? Do the scores really mean anything in this situation?

[Anonymous]

I'd wager that these particular kids would score 5s wherever they landed. I'm also under the impression that JA is a good school given its demographics, a couple steps ahead of other DCPS middle schools with similar demographics in terms of leadership, physical plant and rigor offered.

From my perspective, it's a lot to ask of high SES neighborhood families to send their children to a middle school where demographics don't begin to mirror neighborhood demographics, there aren't established honors classes, and there's almost no prospect of the situation changing faster than a glacial pace, for political reasons.

What we have is a a situation where our neighborhood middle school serves a tiny fraction of neighborhood families in the swathe of the Jefferson Academy district that overlaps with Capitol Hill, year after year. Charles Allen and the rest of the city council members, Bowser and Ferebee could care less, knowing that local UMC parents pose no threat at the ballot box. Object in public fora and stand accused of being a racist. That's the situation and there's no changing it.

[Anonymous]

Similar story for Maury and SWS grads at Eliot-Hine, but even less rosy. Situation only a little better for Watkins and Ludlow grads at Stuart Hobson.

The fact remains that more than 2/3 of high SES Hill families who went with DCPS for elementary school have left the system by 6th grade.

I don't see any reason for that to change in the next 5 years, possibly 10.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Similar story for Maury and SWS grads at Eliot-Hine, but even less rosy. Situation only a little better for Watkins and Ludlow grads at Stuart Hobson.

The fact remains that more than 2/3 of high SES Hill families who went with DCPS for elementary school have left the system by 6th grade.

I don't see any reason for that to change in the next 5 years, possibly 10.

As long as there’s no coherent effort to integrate them, it won’t happen. People can cry white privilege and Brookings however much they want, but any policymaker who actually thinks integration is a desirable goal will have to use carrots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Similar story for Maury and SWS grads at Eliot-Hine, but even less rosy. Situation only a little better for Watkins and Ludlow grads at Stuart Hobson.

The fact remains that more than 2/3 of high SES Hill families who went with DCPS for elementary school have left the system by 6th grade.

I don't see any reason for that to change in the next 5 years, possibly 10.

As long as there’s no coherent effort to integrate them, it won’t happen. People can cry white privilege and Brookings however much they want, but any policymaker who actually thinks integration is a desirable goal will have to use carrots.

Thing thing about America is that you have freedom to move. If your schools suck, you can move. Middle class AA families seem to move to PG/MoCo and upper class families move to NoVa, Western MoCo or NoVa. Unless DCPS makes a targeted effort to retain these middle and upper class families, the situation will be one of adverse selection. DCPS figured it out in the Wilson/Deal/Hardy areas; they just refuse to do it on Cap Hill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Similar story for Maury and SWS grads at Eliot-Hine, but even less rosy. Situation only a little better for Watkins and Ludlow grads at Stuart Hobson.

The fact remains that more than 2/3 of high SES Hill families who went with DCPS for elementary school have left the system by 6th grade.

I don't see any reason for that to change in the next 5 years, possibly 10.

As long as there’s no coherent effort to integrate them, it won’t happen. People can cry white privilege and Brookings however much they want, but any policymaker who actually thinks integration is a desirable goal will have to use carrots.

Thing thing about America is that you have freedom to move. If your schools suck, you can move. Middle class AA families seem to move to PG/MoCo and upper class families move to NoVa, Western MoCo or NoVa. Unless DCPS makes a targeted effort to retain these middle and upper class families, the situation will be one of adverse selection. DCPS figured it out in the Wilson/Deal/Hardy areas; they just refuse to do it on Cap Hill.

Yes, because DCPS can't walk and chew gum at the same time. Integrating Hardy is their current focus, probably a 10-year project. Once they've integrated Hardy, they'll surely get to us, by which time our kids will be in college.

What happens on the Hill is that a really small number of high SES families don't mind that DCPS doesn't make a targeted effort to retain them at the middle school level. They enroll in neighborhood middle schools anyway. Their cooperation lets politicians off the hook. It's easy to paint refusenik parents--the great majority of us--as the problem when a few families have embraced the current DCPS middle school arrangement, and those that don't aren't organized politically.