APS Lucy Calkins- how does this happen?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids did Lucy Calkins for 6 and 4 years respectively, and were way behind in grammar, structured writing, spelling, vocabulary, and so on. They switched to MCT, and it was like a different universe. Both kids became much stronger writers, had a strong sense of grammar, and started to love their language arts classes.

It's just anecdote, but for my kids, LC was awful, and MCT was a much stronger, much better curriculum.

What is MCT?

Michael Clay Thompson. It's the program that includes Caesar's English.
https://www.rfwp.com/pages/michael-clay-thompson/

[Anonymous]

Who are my fellow Natalie Wexler fans in this thread? I'm a parent who is appalled by all this. Look up #KnowledgeMatters or #CurriculumMatters in social media to find districts who are doing better, following the research. Baltimore is actually implementing a content-rich ELA curriculum now. Even expensive private schools use that Lucy Calkins crap. No wonder none of my students in college don't know what they are doing. It's really depressing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Please read “The Knowledge Gap” by Natalie Wexler. Lucy Calkins is HORRIBLE. I can’t believe teachers go along with this.

Omg don’t blame the curriculum a whole district buys and says teachers have to use on the teachers. How much say do you have over how your leadership tells you to do elements of your job?

I’m a nurse and you’d better believe that if my coworkers and I were instructed to do things that consistently led to bad outcomes, we would speak up and demand change.

WTH?? You’re ok with accepting the failing state of education? I seriously have to question your integrity if you’re ok with continuing to operate this way. Jesus.

Calm down Drama Queen. The problem is this is also what’s taught in teaching programs. It’s been reading instruction for a LONG time. A lot of teachers honestly don’t know it’s not “the best” way to teach reading. I don’t teach elementary but you can also stop acting like teachers are killing children by using curriculum they learned on and are told to use by their district. By all means go lobby the district to abandon it and tell them what reading program you prefer.(you don’t know any.)

I don’t know which is worse, knowing the curriculum you follow is terrible yet choosing not to speak up, or being completely unaware that the curriculum is terrible in the first place. It means you’re either lazy or stupid.

Yes, there are many better options for the chosen curriculum. Many posters have linked specific examples. Children need to be taught to decode. Spelling, phonics, and grammar instruction are critical. A curriculum focused on building knowledge, rather than general comprehension strategies, is much more effective.

How do I, as a nurse, understand this better than you?!

The Calkins curriculum is not terrible. It works wonders for many students in helping them to think deeply and comprehend at advanced levels (granted, I’ve only taught Calkins in upper elementary grades). In the lower grades, it needs to be coupled with phonics instruction. A phonics only curriculum would bore the early readers to tears. My kids’ K-1 teachers (ACPS) did a good job balancing Calkins with phonics instruction. The dramatics of calling the curriculum “terrible” don’t help. What we had before (NO language arts curriculum for my first 12 years of teaching) was much worse. Each teacher had to create her own lessons based on the standards.—Fine, if you had an outstanding teacher, but not great in many cases.

THIS is the problem. We have educators that don’t understand how awful the LC curriculum is.

“It works wonders!” Um, why are kids so grossly underprepared for middle and high school then? Why are test scores getting worse and worse?

The only kids that are doing well are those that come from privileged homes. This is because their parents make sure they have the basic knowledge they need (they supplement at home or hire tutors). Not everyone can do this.

THIS is why the solution isn’t just handing more money over. When our “educators” don’t even understand the problem, we are in deep trouble.

Maybe the problem is not the curriculum, but that living in poverty makes academic success very difficult, regardless of the curriculum.

That's what research tells us, anyway, although it's ignored by everyone because it's much easier to blame schools for a problem they didn't cause than it is to address the real cause - poverty and inequity.

Also what my personal experience teaching for 30 years tells me.

Yet research shows that those kids living in poverty start to thrive when they are in a school that uses a content-rich curriculum! Go back and read previous posts. Using a better curriculum minimizes how much supplementation is needed, meaning it narrows the achievement gap between rich and poor kids.

I'm sorry, but that is completely incorrect. Research shows no such thing. The gap remains large regardless of the teaching and curriculum. Research even shows that when a program manages to change that trend, it is short-lived and usually involves tremendous resources (in terms of facilities, staffing, funding, and even teacher-participant energy) that it cannot reasonably be maintained long-term, or cannot be replicated.

Research does show that "good" instruction (which is not really agreed upon but generally means teachers well trained in best practices of the moment, with experience) is better than the alternatives, but it does not show that this can overcome external variables.

[Anonymous]

*eliminate the double negative!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids did Lucy Calkins for 6 and 4 years respectively, and were way behind in grammar, structured writing, spelling, vocabulary, and so on. They switched to MCT, and it was like a different universe. Both kids became much stronger writers, had a strong sense of grammar, and started to love their language arts classes.

It's just anecdote, but for my kids, LC was awful, and MCT was a much stronger, much better curriculum.

What is MCT?

Michael Clay Thompson. It's the program that includes Caesar's English.
https://www.rfwp.com/pages/michael-clay-thompson/

Which schools use this? Or is this a homeschool wackadoodle thing?

[Anonymous]

“No wonder none of my students in college don’t know what they are doing.” Yeah you’re a reading expert for sure. Clearly.

[Anonymous]

Curriculum is not the ONLY lever that will overcome the role of poverty.

But it is an important variable. It's a powerful lever.

The "blame poverty" comment above is a TOTAL equity detour. It's infuriating. Schools are accountable for the opportunity gaps THEY create. Their curriculum choices fall in that category. Do better!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please read “The Knowledge Gap” by Natalie Wexler. Lucy Calkins is HORRIBLE. I can’t believe teachers go along with this.

Omg don’t blame the curriculum a whole district buys and says teachers have to use on the teachers. How much say do you have over how your leadership tells you to do elements of your job?

I’m a nurse and you’d better believe that if my coworkers and I were instructed to do things that consistently led to bad outcomes, we would speak up and demand change.

WTH?? You’re ok with accepting the failing state of education? I seriously have to question your integrity if you’re ok with continuing to operate this way. Jesus.

You are not telling the truth. I have worked in both a hospital and a school and have seen plenty of nurses in bad hospitals, who knew they were in bad hospitals, doing things in bad ways because they didn't have a voice and needed their jobs.

Our schools are structured like the military - principal gives orders, and teachers cannot disobey. You literally can be fired for "disobeying a direct order" from the principal, regardless of what it is.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. We speak up all the time, and if needed - notify medical boards when someone is doing something unethical.

BULL. I worked in a hospital for years, and the nurses knew perfectly well which doctors did what awful thing and NO ONE spoke up. That's extremely rare. You are totally lying, or aren't even a nurse.

LOL. You worked in ONE hospital for years! You can totally speak for the entire nursing profession! 😂

“I can paint all teachers with a bad brush but you can’t do it for nurses.”

Test scores all over the nation don’t lie.

We are a hugely obese country with lots of diabetes and other health issues. Guess that’s on nurses by your logic.

No, darling. The equivalent would be if the vast majority of patients entering the hospital were to die. Your logic is flawed. You see, a lot of people become obese and develop diabetes before they seek medical attention at all. With our help, we keep most of them alive.

Before the kids enter your school, they are uneducated (not your fault). The fact that they REMAIN uneducated despite your intervention is ABSOLUTELY your fault.

[Anonymous]

Hey 13:82 - I guess you missed "ignore the double negative" follow-up in your rush to claim superiority? If you're so skeptical, then you'd be surprised about me and where I teach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is NOT poverty. It is the curriculum.

Read articles or books by Natalie Wexler. The Lucy Calkins story is so shocking - how the heck did she become so influential. It may be because she makes it easy for teachers.

Not only is her workshop approach awful for reading, it is equally awful for writing. Read The Writing Revolution and see what direct instruction with the Hochman Method can do. Public education needs to be evidence based.

They're a hundred reasons why the public education system is flawed. Those do include curriculum, poverty, bad teachers... But it also includes things such as lack of parental involvement, poor communication between school and home, lack of resources, and many many more.

I suggest, if you have a huge problem with public education, that you run for school board or find other ways to get involved at the local, state or federal government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids did Lucy Calkins for 6 and 4 years respectively, and were way behind in grammar, structured writing, spelling, vocabulary, and so on. They switched to MCT, and it was like a different universe. Both kids became much stronger writers, had a strong sense of grammar, and started to love their language arts classes.

It's just anecdote, but for my kids, LC was awful, and MCT was a much stronger, much better curriculum.

What is MCT?

Michael Clay Thompson. It's the program that includes Caesar's English.
https://www.rfwp.com/pages/michael-clay-thompson/

Which schools use this? Or is this a homeschool wackadoodle thing?

All of FCPS in the advanced academics curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey 13:82 - I guess you missed "ignore the double negative" follow-up in your rush to claim superiority? If you're so skeptical, then you'd be surprised about me and where I teach.

Not that poster, but 13:82 would be looking into the future when you wrote this (if were even a possible time lol).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Michael Clay Thompson. It's the program that includes Caesar's English.
https://www.rfwp.com/pages/michael-clay-thompson/

Which schools use this? Or is this a homeschool wackadoodle thing?

All of FCPS in the advanced academics curriculum.

FCPS AAP uses bits and pieces of it. I wish they used the entire curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please read “The Knowledge Gap” by Natalie Wexler. Lucy Calkins is HORRIBLE. I can’t believe teachers go along with this.

Omg don’t blame the curriculum a whole district buys and says teachers have to use on the teachers. How much say do you have over how your leadership tells you to do elements of your job?

I’m a nurse and you’d better believe that if my coworkers and I were instructed to do things that consistently led to bad outcomes, we would speak up and demand change.

WTH?? You’re ok with accepting the failing state of education? I seriously have to question your integrity if you’re ok with continuing to operate this way. Jesus.

You are not telling the truth. I have worked in both a hospital and a school and have seen plenty of nurses in bad hospitals, who knew they were in bad hospitals, doing things in bad ways because they didn't have a voice and needed their jobs.

Our schools are structured like the military - principal gives orders, and teachers cannot disobey. You literally can be fired for "disobeying a direct order" from the principal, regardless of what it is.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. We speak up all the time, and if needed - notify medical boards when someone is doing something unethical.

BULL. I worked in a hospital for years, and the nurses knew perfectly well which doctors did what awful thing and NO ONE spoke up. That's extremely rare. You are totally lying, or aren't even a nurse.

LOL. You worked in ONE hospital for years! You can totally speak for the entire nursing profession! 😂

“I can paint all teachers with a bad brush but you can’t do it for nurses.”

Test scores all over the nation don’t lie.

We are a hugely obese country with lots of diabetes and other health issues. Guess that’s on nurses by your logic.

No, darling. The equivalent would be if the vast majority of patients entering the hospital were to die. Your logic is flawed. You see, a lot of people become obese and develop diabetes before they seek medical attention at all. With our help, we keep most of them alive.

Before the kids enter your school, they are uneducated (not your fault). The fact that they REMAIN uneducated despite your intervention is ABSOLUTELY your fault.

There is a percentage of children who remain undereducated, because their parents won't shut up when it comes to insulting public education and teachers. Your children do listen to you even when you think they are not. If parents could find a way to support the public education system instead of trash it every single day, students might actually give it a chance. We see students every single year that are shut down from day one. And a lot of that gets traced back to home.

If you can't find a way to help versus hurt, then I suggest you look for something beyond public education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey 13:82 - I guess you missed "ignore the double negative" follow-up in your rush to claim superiority? If you're so skeptical, then you'd be surprised about me and where I teach.

Wonder what kind of clock this loser teacher uses!