Facebook announces that remote WFH employees will have salaries decreased to match local COL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FB attracts top notch software developers and trains them very well. If they want to piss all that talent off by cutting their salaries in half (even for those who are just as or more productive while wfh), then I will happily hire them for my company.

Please do. Hope you can afford a $350K software engineer + a 20% pay raise because obviously your company stock (if its even public) can't touch Facebook's in Sioux Fall, Idaho or wherever you are.

You both sound ridiculous. FB isn't going to cut salaries by half. However, they will cut them. It will still be above the local market.

If the business-owning PP is in a smaller town, he may have the possibility of hiring the FB engineer if FB eventually goes through layoffs, though. There won't be as many competitors vying for remote talent.

Bingo. $350k in SF will turn into $230k for a "live anywhere" fully remote position. Less pay than SF/LA/NYC but substantially above local market. Companies who formerly dominated small markets will see upward comp pressure in order to keep their best people. We're on the cusp of a huge change in the way global talent is distributed and compensated. Exciting times.

Did...did you even listen to what Zuckerberg said?

He was very clear. Salaries match local cost of living.

So $350K in SF turns into $80K in Charlotte. Sorry I don't make the rules.

Based on the latest IRS numbers, COL in SF is 29% more than in Charlotte, NC. So $350->$230 is pretty accurate. Good developers for BOA (who would never even score an interview @ FB) already make >$100k in Charlotte.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with accepting the lower pay in a low COL area is that you aren't building as much equity in your house so in 15 or 30 years you would own a 2 million dollar house in Silicon Valley vs a 500,000 house in Austin or Raleigh. That extra 1.5 million would have been paid by Facebook.

Yep. And if you ever want to advance and for some reason they decide a permanent remote worker is worth becoming senior management, then you'll need to relocate back to Facebook hub offices.

You think you're priced out now? LOL You won't even be able to qualify for a mortgage for SFH of any kind within 3 hours of SF if you're gone for too long.

Tech companies have long given substantial relo packages to help with this issue. I imagine it would be the same, possibly even larger.

Call all of us when tech companies start giving $500,000 relocation bonuses up front. Because that’s what a down payment on a $3 million house looks like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FB attracts top notch software developers and trains them very well. If they want to piss all that talent off by cutting their salaries in half (even for those who are just as or more productive while wfh), then I will happily hire them for my company.

Please do. Hope you can afford a $350K software engineer + a 20% pay raise because obviously your company stock (if its even public) can't touch Facebook's in Sioux Fall, Idaho or wherever you are.

You both sound ridiculous. FB isn't going to cut salaries by half. However, they will cut them. It will still be above the local market.

If the business-owning PP is in a smaller town, he may have the possibility of hiring the FB engineer if FB eventually goes through layoffs, though. There won't be as many competitors vying for remote talent.

Bingo. $350k in SF will turn into $230k for a "live anywhere" fully remote position. Less pay than SF/LA/NYC but substantially above local market. Companies who formerly dominated small markets will see upward comp pressure in order to keep their best people. We're on the cusp of a huge change in the way global talent is distributed and compensated. Exciting times.

Did...did you even listen to what Zuckerberg said?

He was very clear. Salaries match local cost of living.

So $350K in SF turns into $80K in Charlotte. Sorry I don't make the rules.

Based on the latest IRS numbers, COL in SF is 29% more than in Charlotte, NC. So $350->$230 is pretty accurate. Good developers for BOA (who would never even score an interview @ FB) already make >$100k in Charlotte.

I guarantee they hired a national salary study consultant to price out costs. Having worked with such consultants twice in the last few years, I can report they do not simply adjust for local COL. They’ll look for comparable jobs in the target area and develop a scale—and then they land on a target that appeals to whomever hired them.

If Charlotte pays $100, then FB in Charlotte will pay that or slightly less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you work for Facebook and move to a state with no income tax, do you have to still keep paying CA income tax? That can be as high as 13.3%.

Taxes are withheld based on where you work, which is part of FB’s point. If you work from home, then that is the state where you pay taxes (or not if there is no income tax).

CA is notorious for trying to still tax you. So if that FB employee flies into CA to work for a couple if days at the physical Facebook location, CA tries to tax that employee.

That's misleading. They will tax you if you work in CA for more than x number of days (6 months?), but not if it's just 3 days out of the month.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Zuckerberg resembles Kushner. The same strange reptilian pasty androgynous look.

But one is richer than the other and has created thousands of jobs. The other wants to hoard PPEs and uses his daddy's and daddy in law's connections to get ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FB attracts top notch software developers and trains them very well. If they want to piss all that talent off by cutting their salaries in half (even for those who are just as or more productive while wfh), then I will happily hire them for my company.

Please do. Hope you can afford a $350K software engineer + a 20% pay raise because obviously your company stock (if its even public) can't touch Facebook's in Sioux Fall, Idaho or wherever you are.

You both sound ridiculous. FB isn't going to cut salaries by half. However, they will cut them. It will still be above the local market.

If the business-owning PP is in a smaller town, he may have the possibility of hiring the FB engineer if FB eventually goes through layoffs, though. There won't be as many competitors vying for remote talent.

Bingo. $350k in SF will turn into $230k for a "live anywhere" fully remote position. Less pay than SF/LA/NYC but substantially above local market. Companies who formerly dominated small markets will see upward comp pressure in order to keep their best people. We're on the cusp of a huge change in the way global talent is distributed and compensated. Exciting times.

Did...did you even listen to what Zuckerberg said?

He was very clear. Salaries match local cost of living.

So $350K in SF turns into $80K in Charlotte. Sorry I don't make the rules.

Based on the latest IRS numbers, COL in SF is 29% more than in Charlotte, NC. So $350->$230 is pretty accurate. Good developers for BOA (who would never even score an interview @ FB) already make >$100k in Charlotte.

I guarantee they hired a national salary study consultant to price out costs. Having worked with such consultants twice in the last few years, I can report they do not simply adjust for local COL. They’ll look for comparable jobs in the target area and develop a scale—and then they land on a target that appeals to whomever hired them.

If Charlotte pays $100, then FB in Charlotte will pay that or slightly less.

You keep mentioning and forgetting to add that the company then choses where in the salary range they want to pay. Some set their target at the 30th percentile, some do the 90th. FB already pays well above market, they are not going to adjust to the median salary in the locality.

You should know there are multiple ways to develop a comp strategy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FB attracts top notch software developers and trains them very well. If they want to piss all that talent off by cutting their salaries in half (even for those who are just as or more productive while wfh), then I will happily hire them for my company.

Please do. Hope you can afford a $350K software engineer + a 20% pay raise because obviously your company stock (if its even public) can't touch Facebook's in Sioux Fall, Idaho or wherever you are.

You both sound ridiculous. FB isn't going to cut salaries by half. However, they will cut them. It will still be above the local market.

If the business-owning PP is in a smaller town, he may have the possibility of hiring the FB engineer if FB eventually goes through layoffs, though. There won't be as many competitors vying for remote talent.

Bingo. $350k in SF will turn into $230k for a "live anywhere" fully remote position. Less pay than SF/LA/NYC but substantially above local market. Companies who formerly dominated small markets will see upward comp pressure in order to keep their best people. We're on the cusp of a huge change in the way global talent is distributed and compensated. Exciting times.

Did...did you even listen to what Zuckerberg said?

He was very clear. Salaries match local cost of living.

So $350K in SF turns into $80K in Charlotte. Sorry I don't make the rules.

Based on the latest IRS numbers, COL in SF is 29% more than in Charlotte, NC. So $350->$230 is pretty accurate. Good developers for BOA (who would never even score an interview @ FB) already make >$100k in Charlotte.

I guarantee they hired a national salary study consultant to price out costs. Having worked with such consultants twice in the last few years, I can report they do not simply adjust for local COL. They’ll look for comparable jobs in the target area and develop a scale—and then they land on a target that appeals to whomever hired them.

If Charlotte pays $100, then FB in Charlotte will pay that or slightly less.

You keep mentioning and forgetting to add that the company then choses where in the salary range they want to pay. Some set their target at the 30th percentile, some do the 90th. FB already pays well above market, they are not going to adjust to the median salary in the locality.

You should know there are multiple ways to develop a comp strategy.

And you should know that FB is doing this to cut costs. While they may have paid top dollar in the past, I don’t think that’s the case for this effort. Note: they are offering this current employees. They’ve likely done a risk assessment to determine how low they can go without losing too many staff. They have numbers for how many staff are likely to opt in, how many will likely stay put, and how many might leave.

While they had to pay top dollar to get employees to relocate to a high COL location, that won’t be the case. Plus, they need to cut costs. They aren’t doing this to benefit employees—don’t be daft.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you work for Facebook and move to a state with no income tax, do you have to still keep paying CA income tax? That can be as high as 13.3%.

Taxes are withheld based on where you work, which is part of FB’s point. If you work from home, then that is the state where you pay taxes (or not if there is no income tax).

CA is notorious for trying to still tax you. So if that FB employee flies into CA to work for a couple if days at the physical Facebook location, CA tries to tax that employee.

That's misleading. They will tax you if you work in CA for more than x number of days (6 months?), but not if it's just 3 days out of the month.

They will try and get those 3 days. Pro Athletes pay for whatever part of their wages were played in CA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FB attracts top notch software developers and trains them very well. If they want to piss all that talent off by cutting their salaries in half (even for those who are just as or more productive while wfh), then I will happily hire them for my company.

Please do. Hope you can afford a $350K software engineer + a 20% pay raise because obviously your company stock (if its even public) can't touch Facebook's in Sioux Fall, Idaho or wherever you are.

You both sound ridiculous. FB isn't going to cut salaries by half. However, they will cut them. It will still be above the local market.

If the business-owning PP is in a smaller town, he may have the possibility of hiring the FB engineer if FB eventually goes through layoffs, though. There won't be as many competitors vying for remote talent.

Bingo. $350k in SF will turn into $230k for a "live anywhere" fully remote position. Less pay than SF/LA/NYC but substantially above local market. Companies who formerly dominated small markets will see upward comp pressure in order to keep their best people. We're on the cusp of a huge change in the way global talent is distributed and compensated. Exciting times.

Did...did you even listen to what Zuckerberg said?

He was very clear. Salaries match local cost of living.

So $350K in SF turns into $80K in Charlotte. Sorry I don't make the rules.

Based on the latest IRS numbers, COL in SF is 29% more than in Charlotte, NC. So $350->$230 is pretty accurate. Good developers for BOA (who would never even score an interview @ FB) already make >$100k in Charlotte.

I guarantee they hired a national salary study consultant to price out costs. Having worked with such consultants twice in the last few years, I can report they do not simply adjust for local COL. They’ll look for comparable jobs in the target area and develop a scale—and then they land on a target that appeals to whomever hired them.

If Charlotte pays $100, then FB in Charlotte will pay that or slightly less.

You keep mentioning and forgetting to add that the company then choses where in the salary range they want to pay. Some set their target at the 30th percentile, some do the 90th. FB already pays well above market, they are not going to adjust to the median salary in the locality.

You should know there are multiple ways to develop a comp strategy.

And you should know that FB is doing this to cut costs. While they may have paid top dollar in the past, I don’t think that’s the case for this effort. Note: they are offering this current employees. They’ve likely done a risk assessment to determine how low they can go without losing too many staff. They have numbers for how many staff are likely to opt in, how many will likely stay put, and how many might leave.

While they had to pay top dollar to get employees to relocate to a high COL location, that won’t be the case. Plus, they need to cut costs. They aren’t doing this to benefit employees—don’t be daft.

I love how you think other people don’t understand what FB is up to so you think you need to impart you (mis)informed wisdom. FB has always and will always pay top dollar for the local market which will still be less than SV. They will reap those savings - that goes without saying but you seem to need it called out. FB doesn’t hire Microsoft or lesser company talent. They won’t be paying 80k for a software engineer like you keep crowing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with accepting the lower pay in a low COL area is that you aren't building as much equity in your house so in 15 or 30 years you would own a 2 million dollar house in Silicon Valley vs a 500,000 house in Austin or Raleigh. That extra 1.5 million would have been paid by Facebook.

Yep. And if you ever want to advance and for some reason they decide a permanent remote worker is worth becoming senior management, then you'll need to relocate back to Facebook hub offices.

You think you're priced out now? LOL You won't even be able to qualify for a mortgage for SFH of any kind within 3 hours of SF if you're gone for too long.

Tech companies have long given substantial relo packages to help with this issue. I imagine it would be the same, possibly even larger.

+1,000

I got about a $250K sign on to move to east coast from lower COL location. Plus they bought my house outright after 90 days on market at an agreed upon FMV.

[Anonymous]

Tech is the most lucrative/profitable (per employee) industry. It's also almost 100% talent driven, especially for social/consumer companies (as opposed to saas/enterprise). If they lose their best talent, Facebook can become obsolete in 2-3 years and they know it. Anybody who thinks they will nickle and dime high performers in their eng org who want to relocate is clueless.

[Anonymous]

I don’t understand the outrage. COL is always considered as part of a compensation package. Why would that be a problem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I see no problem with this policy applying to new employees, that said, so long as they go in knowing what the policy is.

No.. they have till Jan 2021 to decide whether they want to wfh permanently or not. Announcing the col adjustment now means they have the knowledge in hand before they make the decision. You are misinformed.

Yes, when things take a down turn, employers benefit. For decades in SV, it's been an employee's market, rather than an employer's market. No different to how real estate prices work, or any thing else. It's called supply and demand.
What I don't understand is, won't a ton of FB employees WFH while staying in the Bay Area where they likely have spouses with jobs and kids in schools? Seems like this is to address a small number of people who will move to lower COL areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I see no problem with this policy applying to new employees, that said, so long as they go in knowing what the policy is.

No.. they have till Jan 2021 to decide whether they want to wfh permanently or not. Announcing the col adjustment now means they have the knowledge in hand before they make the decision. You are misinformed.

Yes, when things take a down turn, employers benefit. For decades in SV, it's been an employee's market, rather than an employer's market. No different to how real estate prices work, or any thing else. It's called supply and demand.

What I don't understand is, won't a ton of FB employees WFH while staying in the Bay Area where they likely have spouses with jobs and kids in schools? Seems like this is to address a small number of people who will move to lower COL areas.

There were a lot of people who left California or the coasts entirely to shelter elsewhere just like New Yorkers left Manhattan.

Other people were thinking about never coming back or not doing so for half a year or more. With schools closed, there was nothing forcing them too.

I'm seeing a lot of new SFH listings in San Francisco and in the Bay Area as well.

Facebook decided to get out ahead of the bullrush. People can still leave -- they just won't be taking those lucrative paychecks with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I see no problem with this policy applying to new employees, that said, so long as they go in knowing what the policy is.

No.. they have till Jan 2021 to decide whether they want to wfh permanently or not. Announcing the col adjustment now means they have the knowledge in hand before they make the decision. You are misinformed.

Yes, when things take a down turn, employers benefit. For decades in SV, it's been an employee's market, rather than an employer's market. No different to how real estate prices work, or any thing else. It's called supply and demand.

What I don't understand is, won't a ton of FB employees WFH while staying in the Bay Area where they likely have spouses with jobs and kids in schools? Seems like this is to address a small number of people who will move to lower COL areas.

There were a lot of people who left California or the coasts entirely to shelter elsewhere just like New Yorkers left Manhattan.

Other people were thinking about never coming back or not doing so for half a year or more. With schools closed, there was nothing forcing them too.

I'm seeing a lot of new SFH listings in San Francisco and in the Bay Area as well.

Facebook decided to get out ahead of the bullrush. People can still leave -- they just won't be taking those lucrative paychecks with them.

They will still come out ahead even with the locality adjustment. Unlike what our comp expert above is trying to claim, FB isn’t going go pay their engineers 80k.