Are service academies like West Point considered prestigious?

[Anonymous]

I understand they seek well rounded young men and women who have character and a knack for leadership.

But giving extra points to an applicant who can throw a basketball farther than another applicant? Is the basketball a stand in for a grenade? My point is that they need to come up with revisions to the application process reflecting what it means to be in the military in contemporary times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I understand they seek well rounded young men and women who have character and a knack for leadership.

But giving extra points to an applicant who can throw a basketball farther than another applicant? Is the basketball a stand in for a grenade? My point is that they need to come up with revisions to the application process reflecting what it means to be in the military in contemporary times.

the application process reflects the ability to get a congressman to nominate you more than anything else. You can be an eagle scout with a 5.0 GPA who wins robotics competitions at the international level, but if your congressman and senator don't like you, you're probably SOL unless you are in some way otherwise qualified (i.e. mom won a Medal of Honor or dad died in combat)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand they seek well rounded young men and women who have character and a knack for leadership.

But giving extra points to an applicant who can throw a basketball farther than another applicant? Is the basketball a stand in for a grenade? My point is that they need to come up with revisions to the application process reflecting what it means to be in the military in contemporary times.

the application process reflects the ability to get a congressman to nominate you more than anything else. You can be an eagle scout with a 5.0 GPA who wins robotics competitions at the international level, but if your congressman and senator don't like you, you're probably SOL unless you are in some way otherwise qualified (i.e. mom won a Medal of Honor or dad died in combat)

So, the congressional representative her/himself typically has little to do personally with choosing the applicants who get the nominations. Each office has a committee of usually former military members who read the applications and interview the applicants. Part of the point of nominations is to be sure to have geographic representation in the military officer corps. It’s a very fair and impartial process.

You need a nomination to move forward in the application process, a nomination does not automatically get you an appointment. Each service academy’s admissions committee then looks at all the applicants with nominations.

And the basketball throw is part of the overall fitness test which is the bar applicants have to pass. Yes, it is hard to do but it does show a type of upper body strength and flexibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand they seek well rounded young men and women who have character and a knack for leadership.

But giving extra points to an applicant who can throw a basketball farther than another applicant? Is the basketball a stand in for a grenade? My point is that they need to come up with revisions to the application process reflecting what it means to be in the military in contemporary times.

the application process reflects the ability to get a congressman to nominate you more than anything else. You can be an eagle scout with a 5.0 GPA who wins robotics competitions at the international level, but if your congressman and senator don't like you, you're probably SOL unless you are in some way otherwise qualified (i.e. mom won a Medal of Honor or dad died in combat)

So, the congressional representative her/himself typically has little to do personally with choosing the applicants who get the nominations. Each office has a committee of usually former military members who read the applications and interview the applicants. Part of the point of nominations is to be sure to have geographic representation in the military officer corps. It’s a very fair and impartial process.

You need a nomination to move forward in the application process, a nomination does not automatically get you an appointment. Each service academy’s admissions committee then looks at all the applicants with nominations.

And the basketball throw is part of the overall fitness test which is the bar applicants have to pass. Yes, it is hard to do but it does show a type of upper body strength and flexibility.

that really depends on the congressman.

[Anonymous]

Not prestigious at all. But respected, certainly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand they seek well rounded young men and women who have character and a knack for leadership.

But giving extra points to an applicant who can throw a basketball farther than another applicant? Is the basketball a stand in for a grenade? My point is that they need to come up with revisions to the application process reflecting what it means to be in the military in contemporary times.

the application process reflects the ability to get a congressman to nominate you more than anything else. You can be an eagle scout with a 5.0 GPA who wins robotics competitions at the international level, but if your congressman and senator don't like you, you're probably SOL unless you are in some way otherwise qualified (i.e. mom won a Medal of Honor or dad died in combat)

So, the congressional representative her/himself typically has little to do personally with choosing the applicants who get the nominations. Each office has a committee of usually former military members who read the applications and interview the applicants. Part of the point of nominations is to be sure to have geographic representation in the military officer corps. It’s a very fair and impartial process.

You need a nomination to move forward in the application process, a nomination does not automatically get you an appointment. Each service academy’s admissions committee then looks at all the applicants with nominations.

And the basketball throw is part of the overall fitness test which is the bar applicants have to pass. Yes, it is hard to do but it does show a type of upper body strength and flexibility.

that really depends on the congressman.

In other parts of the country (yeah, mainly the South), the member of congress can specify a "principal" nominee, without regard to merit unless you count some connection to his family. The academy will have no choice but to give that person an appointment. I'm pretty sure Eleanor, Jamie and the other local pols do not play that political game. They just provide a list of 10 to the academy and let the academy decide based solely on merit, to include that basketball throw test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not prestigious at all. But respected, certainly.

I'm not really sure how we're defining "prestigious."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not prestigious at all. But respected, certainly.

I'm not really sure how we're defining "prestigious."

The most significant differences in admissions standards seem to be the physical fitness exam requirement, the congressional nomination requirement, and the emphasis on HS sports participation and leadership. Also, candidates have to pass a medical exam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Like to an average layman? Maybe not as prestigious as Harvard and Yale, but up there with Penn and Brown? Just curious. This really impressive great-at-everything senior boy in our son’s school is heading to one and I sense parents are not impressed. And most kids don’t seem to have a clue what a service academy is, how selectivity, process of getting in, and commitment. I honestly think most sort of conflate it with just enlisting?

West Point, the Air Force Academy and the Naval Academy are very prestigious, and probably close to Brown in prestige. Forget Penn if you are talking about the College of Arts and Sciences, that is not such a big deal. Wharton is what is special and the two are noticeably separate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not prestigious at all. But respected, certainly.

I'm not really sure how we're defining "prestigious."

The most significant differences in admissions standards seem to be the physical fitness exam requirement, the congressional nomination requirement, and the emphasis on HS sports participation and leadership. Also, candidates have to pass a medical exam.

I'm one of the prior posters who is admittedly upset that my son did not get an appointment. He did get a nomination. it just seems to me something like success at playing video games demonstrating dexterity, instincts, vision and ability to handle pressure might be more directly applicable to what a typical military person might be doing in today's high tech army. Using the shuttle run as a metric is just a relic from a bygone era.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not prestigious at all. But respected, certainly.

I'm not really sure how we're defining "prestigious."

The most significant differences in admissions standards seem to be the physical fitness exam requirement, the congressional nomination requirement, and the emphasis on HS sports participation and leadership. Also, candidates have to pass a medical exam.

I'm one of the prior posters who is admittedly upset that my son did not get an appointment. He did get a nomination. it just seems to me something like success at playing video games demonstrating dexterity, instincts, vision and ability to handle pressure might be more directly applicable to what a typical military person might be doing in today's high tech army. Using the shuttle run as a metric is just a relic from a bygone era.

I think they do a lot of physical activity/training while at the academy. How did he do on the fitness exam?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not prestigious at all. But respected, certainly.

I'm not really sure how we're defining "prestigious."

The most significant differences in admissions standards seem to be the physical fitness exam requirement, the congressional nomination requirement, and the emphasis on HS sports participation and leadership. Also, candidates have to pass a medical exam.

I'm one of the prior posters who is admittedly upset that my son did not get an appointment. He did get a nomination. it just seems to me something like success at playing video games demonstrating dexterity, instincts, vision and ability to handle pressure might be more directly applicable to what a typical military person might be doing in today's high tech army. Using the shuttle run as a metric is just a relic from a bygone era.

I think they do a lot of physical activity/training while at the academy. How did he do on the fitness exam?

I totally get that. He was average on the fitness exam. He passed everything including that blasted basketball throw. But certainly did not distinguish himself. He is a varsity athlete in cross country and tennis. But he was told that did not carry as much weight as those involved in the team sports with a heavy emphasis on the helmet sports. Also the fact that he was not a captain apparently is counted against him. I certainly too understand the importance of teamwork and leadership. But still. It's just been a tough grief process. He's moved on and will be at a Top 10 school this coming fall. It'll take me a bit more time to recover. LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not prestigious at all. But respected, certainly.

I'm not really sure how we're defining "prestigious."

The most significant differences in admissions standards seem to be the physical fitness exam requirement, the congressional nomination requirement, and the emphasis on HS sports participation and leadership. Also, candidates have to pass a medical exam.

I'm one of the prior posters who is admittedly upset that my son did not get an appointment. He did get a nomination. it just seems to me something like success at playing video games demonstrating dexterity, instincts, vision and ability to handle pressure might be more directly applicable to what a typical military person might be doing in today's high tech army. Using the shuttle run as a metric is just a relic from a bygone era.

There are still only a relatively small handful of jobs in the military where video game acumen is going to be a helpful skill. Physical fitness is needy for almost everything, and even jobs where fitness usually isn't key, could have times where it is important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not prestigious at all. But respected, certainly.

I'm not really sure how we're defining "prestigious."

The most significant differences in admissions standards seem to be the physical fitness exam requirement, the congressional nomination requirement, and the emphasis on HS sports participation and leadership. Also, candidates have to pass a medical exam.

I'm one of the prior posters who is admittedly upset that my son did not get an appointment. He did get a nomination. it just seems to me something like success at playing video games demonstrating dexterity, instincts, vision and ability to handle pressure might be more directly applicable to what a typical military person might be doing in today's high tech army. Using the shuttle run as a metric is just a relic from a bygone era.

I think they do a lot of physical activity/training while at the academy. How did he do on the fitness exam?

I totally get that. He was average on the fitness exam. He passed everything including that blasted basketball throw. But certainly did not distinguish himself. He is a varsity athlete in cross country and tennis. But he was told that did not carry as much weight as those involved in the team sports with a heavy emphasis on the helmet sports. Also the fact that he was not a captain apparently is counted against him. I certainly too understand the importance of teamwork and leadership. But still. It's just been a tough grief process. He's moved on and will be at a Top 10 school this coming fall. It'll take me a bit more time to recover. LOL.

Yes, the application process is so long and requires so many different factors and hurdles. Congrats that he is going to a Top 10 school in the fall, though! That is great! I know some applicants do ROTC at "civilian" colleges and then re-apply to service academies as sophomores or maybe even juniors, so that could be another avenue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Average SAT at West Point and AFA is about 1300. Lower at USNA. Not nearly as difficult to get into as an Ivy or any hyper-elite college. Great schools and much respect to the kind of kid who makes the commitment but not nearly the same level of academic performers.

Have at me. (If it helps, I did earn a congressional nomination to the AFA but was denied due to a failed color blindness test. I had no clue I was color blind. It hurt but I would’ve made a lousy cadet. Couldn’t get out of bed. )

I also noted that the SAT are surprisingly low compared to the reputations.

I guess if your measure of a good school is the average score that its students got on a standardized test they took when they were 16 or 17...then maybe you’re right. Most normal people don’t look at it that way, though.

Or you could just...think something and make no effort to quantify. Pretty uniforms and patriotism I guess. The fact remains that a 1250 gives you a good chance at the USNA and gives you no chance at Williams or Yale (short of some other factor which would just as easily get you into an academy). We see the kids who get into the academies. They are uniformly excellent students and really solid kids. We also have kids who get into Stanford, and they are brilliant and extremely accomplished. They aren’t even close to the same caliber academically.

Your turn. Produce something quantifiable that demonstrates academy difficulty of entry as greater than other elite colleges. I’ll wait.

You aren’t getting into a service academy on SAT scores alone (thank God).

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