Is MCPS positioning to shut down the GT/magnet programs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

I think the concern is that the program will eventually/quickly be expanded to include everyone and we will be back to where we started. My elementary school has every one in compact math now. When it started it was just a few kids.

We have to expand the program! But not too much! Just enough so that my kid is in it! Not more, not less!

-DCUM

Sigh. Do you really not understand the need for differentiation? That's what people are asking for. You can mock it by stating the ridiculous logical extreme, but that doesn't obviate the fact that differentiation is critical.

Nobody is arguing against differentiation.

As long as it ends up being a racially/socio economically balanced group in each category..

congrats - you just said the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the benefits of desegregation.

Ok, let's break this down.

WHY would they say it is a goal to have racial and socioeconomically balanced group in each magnet program?

Because it is a consequence of closing the achievement gap, and each group would have an equal opportunity to be represented.

A clear way to get there (based on evidence) is by supporting economic and racial DEsegregation. Segregated schools contribute to decreased achievement and opportunity for disadvantaged students, and integrated schools DO NOT hold back students with economic or racial privilege.

So tell me again why this is the dumbest thing you ever heard?

You made the progressive argument very well but I have one question for you does google or amazon care about economic or racial makeup when they choose who works in their companies

No, they want the best and brightest working together to make the company the most profits

Now please explain to me how school is any different. Are you really saying with a straight face that mixing everyone together vs separating out the best and brightest gets the same results for the best and brightest????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think the concern is that the program will eventually/quickly be expanded to include everyone and we will be back to where we started. My elementary school has every one in compact math now. When it started it was just a few kids.

We have to expand the program! But not too much! Just enough so that my kid is in it! Not more, not less!

-DCUM

Sigh. Do you really not understand the need for differentiation? That's what people are asking for. You can mock it by stating the ridiculous logical extreme, but that doesn't obviate the fact that differentiation is critical.

Nobody is arguing against differentiation.

As long as it ends up being a racially/socio economically balanced group in each category..

congrats - you just said the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the benefits of desegregation.

Ok, let's break this down.

WHY would they say it is a goal to have racial and socioeconomically balanced group in each magnet program?

Because it is a consequence of closing the achievement gap, and each group would have an equal opportunity to be represented.

A clear way to get there (based on evidence) is by supporting economic and racial DEsegregation. Segregated schools contribute to decreased achievement and opportunity for disadvantaged students, and integrated schools DO NOT hold back students with economic or racial privilege.

So tell me again why this is the dumbest thing you ever heard?

You made the progressive argument very well but I have one question for you does google or amazon care about economic or racial makeup when they choose who works in their companies

No, they want the best and brightest working together to make the company the most profits

Now please explain to me how school is any different. Are you really saying with a straight face that mixing everyone together vs separating out the best and brightest gets the same results for the best and brightest????

and ps if this is really what you believe you and all your progressive friends are more than welcome to move from Bethesda to East County oh wait you don't want to do that hmmm wonder why?????? lolz

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You made the progressive argument very well but I have one question for you does google or amazon care about economic or racial makeup when they choose who works in their companies

No, they want the best and brightest working together to make the company the most profits

Now please explain to me how school is any different. Are you really saying with a straight face that mixing everyone together vs separating out the best and brightest gets the same results for the best and brightest????

Bias based on race and sex has been demonstrated over and over again at Google, Amazon, and other companies like that. If they want "the best and the brightest" working for their companies, they're doing it wrong.

Also, "the best and the brightest" are who got us into the Vietnam War. Not somebody to emulate, in my opinion.

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/98/03/15/home/halberstam-best.html?mcubz=0

Indeed groupthink among these "best and the brightest" was one of their major weaknesses. If there had been less separating out and more mixing -- more diversity and inclusion, in other words -- that likely would not have happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:



As long as it ends up being a racially/socio economically balanced group in each category..

congrats - you just said the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the benefits of desegregation.

Ok, let's break this down.

WHY would they say it is a goal to have racial and socioeconomically balanced group in each magnet program?

Because it is a consequence of closing the achievement gap, and each group would have an equal opportunity to be represented.

A clear way to get there (based on evidence) is by supporting economic and racial DEsegregation. Segregated schools contribute to decreased achievement and opportunity for disadvantaged students, and integrated schools DO NOT hold back students with economic or racial privilege.

So tell me again why this is the dumbest thing you ever heard?

You made the progressive argument very well but I have one question for you does google or amazon care about economic or racial makeup when they choose who works in their companies

No, they want the best and brightest working together to make the company the most profits

Now please explain to me how school is any different. Are you really saying with a straight face that mixing everyone together vs separating out the best and brightest gets the same results for the best and brightest????

I have one question for you does google or amazon care about economic or racial makeup when they choose who works in their companies
Yes. Because Diverse teams are smarter, solve problems better, and have stronger financial returns.

No, they want the best and brightest working together to make the company the most profits
I've already linked a point above about diverse teams providing better economic returns. Let's break down how you define the "best and the brightest." Presumably, you're looking at test scores, which I know you know are more closely correlated with SES, and are not be the best predictor. Perhaps you're looking at "school quality," which has been shown time and again to be code for white schools.

And though I could select many articles, I'll just leave you with this roundup and links - the best way to improve schools is to promote integration.

Anonymous wrote:

and ps if this is really what you believe you and all your progressive friends are more than welcome to move from Bethesda to East County oh wait you don't want to do that hmmm wonder why?????? lolz

We live in East County and aren't moving. Chose to live here to live our values. And we know it will be better for all of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:



As long as it ends up being a racially/socio economically balanced group in each category..

congrats - you just said the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the benefits of desegregation.

Ok, let's break this down.

WHY would they say it is a goal to have racial and socioeconomically balanced group in each magnet program?

Because it is a consequence of closing the achievement gap, and each group would have an equal opportunity to be represented.

A clear way to get there (based on evidence) is by supporting economic and racial DEsegregation. Segregated schools contribute to decreased achievement and opportunity for disadvantaged students, and integrated schools DO NOT hold back students with economic or racial privilege.

So tell me again why this is the dumbest thing you ever heard?

You made the progressive argument very well but I have one question for you does google or amazon care about economic or racial makeup when they choose who works in their companies

No, they want the best and brightest working together to make the company the most profits

Now please explain to me how school is any different. Are you really saying with a straight face that mixing everyone together vs separating out the best and brightest gets the same results for the best and brightest????

I have one question for you does google or amazon care about economic or racial makeup when they choose who works in their companies
Yes. Because Diverse teams are smarter, solve problems better, and have stronger financial returns.

No, they want the best and brightest working together to make the company the most profits
I've already linked a point above about diverse teams providing better economic returns. Let's break down how you define the "best and the brightest." Presumably, you're looking at test scores, which I know you know are more closely correlated with SES, and are not be the best predictor. Perhaps you're looking at "school quality," which has been shown time and again to be code for white schools.

And though I could select many articles, I'll just leave you with this roundup and links - the best way to improve schools is to promote integration.

Anonymous wrote:

and ps if this is really what you believe you and all your progressive friends are more than welcome to move from Bethesda to East County oh wait you don't want to do that hmmm wonder why?????? lolz

We live in East County and aren't moving. Chose to live here to live our values. And we know it will be better for all of us.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What percentage of MoCo students attends magnets?

Here is a report for you to read: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/info/choice/ChoiceStudyReport-Version2-20160307.pdf

Thanks! So we're talking about 442 students per grade on average who are admitted to what used to be known as a highly gifted centers. And there are about 13,000 kids per grade. So the top 3% or so goes to magnets, and everyone else makes do with standard MCPS. Yup, I prefer the Fairfax model.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What percentage of MoCo students attends magnets?

Here is a report for you to read: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/info/choice/ChoiceStudyReport-Version2-20160307.pdf

Thanks! So we're talking about 442 students per grade on average who are admitted to what used to be known as a highly gifted centers. And there are about 13,000 kids per grade. So the top 3% or so goes to magnets, and everyone else makes do with standard MCPS. Yup, I prefer the Fairfax model.

FCPS separates for gifted, MCPS separates for highly gifted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What percentage of MoCo students attends magnets?

Here is a report for you to read: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/info/choice/ChoiceStudyReport-Version2-20160307.pdf

Thanks! So we're talking about 442 students per grade on average who are admitted to what used to be known as a highly gifted centers. And there are about 13,000 kids per grade. So the top 3% or so goes to magnets, and everyone else makes do with standard MCPS. Yup, I prefer the Fairfax model.

FCPS separates for gifted, MCPS separates for highly gifted.

Yes, I would prefer to help more gifted kids than fewer highly gifted kids. YMMV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What percentage of MoCo students attends magnets?

Here is a report for you to read: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/info/choice/ChoiceStudyReport-Version2-20160307.pdf

Thanks! So we're talking about 442 students per grade on average who are admitted to what used to be known as a highly gifted centers. And there are about 13,000 kids per grade. So the top 3% or so goes to magnets, and everyone else makes do with standard MCPS. Yup, I prefer the Fairfax model.

FCPS separates for gifted, MCPS separates for highly gifted.

Yes, I would prefer to help more gifted kids than fewer highly gifted kids. YMMV.

Fairfax took the word gifted out of the name. They offer some enrichment to about 25% of kids. Many parents say it is not very much to warrant all the extra bussing etc since they still use centers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What percentage of MoCo students attends magnets?

Here is a report for you to read: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/info/choice/ChoiceStudyReport-Version2-20160307.pdf

Thanks! So we're talking about 442 students per grade on average who are admitted to what used to be known as a highly gifted centers. And there are about 13,000 kids per grade. So the top 3% or so goes to magnets, and everyone else makes do with standard MCPS. Yup, I prefer the Fairfax model.

FCPS separates for gifted, MCPS separates for highly gifted.

Yes, I would prefer to help more gifted kids than fewer highly gifted kids. YMMV.

People regularly change sides of the river to get what they prefer. Neither approach is perfect.

[Anonymous]

"Yes, I would prefer to help more gifted kids than fewer highly gifted kids."

OK but when the parents of slightly gifted students decide that they would prefer to help even more of the population with an even more watered down program don't be surprised.

Then when the "average" students parents decide they would prefer to help even more of the population with a program where the program standards look strikingly similar to common core, don't be surprised.

There is a reason why programs should be aimed at small slices of the population. Once you address a broad enough population, it costs much more money and lots of people feel like they "almost qualify" and vote themselves some of the pie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Yes, I would prefer to help more gifted kids than fewer highly gifted kids."

OK but when the parents of slightly gifted students decide that they would prefer to help even more of the population with an even more watered down program don't be surprised.

Then when the "average" students parents decide they would prefer to help even more of the population with a program where the program standards look strikingly similar to common core, don't be surprised.

There is a reason why programs should be aimed at small slices of the population. Once you address a broad enough population, it costs much more money and lots of people feel like they "almost qualify" and vote themselves some of the pie.

Sure, but there's a happy medium between the current approach of helping the top 3% of the population and spending a small fortune to bus them around MoCo and calling 50% of the population gifted. MoCo has a long way to go til it gets to the other extreme.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What percentage of MoCo students attends magnets?

Here is a report for you to read: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/info/choice/ChoiceStudyReport-Version2-20160307.pdf

Thanks! So we're talking about 442 students per grade on average who are admitted to what used to be known as a highly gifted centers. And there are about 13,000 kids per grade. So the top 3% or so goes to magnets, and everyone else makes do with standard MCPS. Yup, I prefer the Fairfax model.

FCPS separates for gifted, MCPS separates for highly gifted.

Yes, I would prefer to help more gifted kids than fewer highly gifted kids. YMMV.

Then you should move to FX county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What percentage of MoCo students attends magnets?

Here is a report for you to read: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/info/choice/ChoiceStudyReport-Version2-20160307.pdf

Thanks! So we're talking about 442 students per grade on average who are admitted to what used to be known as a highly gifted centers. And there are about 13,000 kids per grade. So the top 3% or so goes to magnets, and everyone else makes do with standard MCPS. Yup, I prefer the Fairfax model.

FCPS separates for gifted, MCPS separates for highly gifted.

Yes, I would prefer to help more gifted kids than fewer highly gifted kids. YMMV.

Then you should move to FX county.

Why? It MCPS is moving towards a more logical framework of "enriched studies" it will more closely approximate the Fairfax model after some time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What percentage of MoCo students attends magnets?

Here is a report for you to read: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/info/choice/ChoiceStudyReport-Version2-20160307.pdf

Thanks! So we're talking about 442 students per grade on average who are admitted to what used to be known as a highly gifted centers. And there are about 13,000 kids per grade. So the top 3% or so goes to magnets, and everyone else makes do with standard MCPS. Yup, I prefer the Fairfax model.

Top 3% are very special kids with unique needs.