Does AAP create unhelpful elitism and separation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, you are not even part of that community, but you find something so wrong with that field trip, because of the gossip that it creates.

You should run for the school board and really make a positive change.

You think the AAP program will last forever here and your little field trip doesn't make a difference. It does. Things change. I like AAP for the academic rigor it provides my child. I hate your field trip for the elitism it promotes.

I am the poster you quoted and I am NOT part of the community in questions. It is absurd that you 'hate' a field trip because YOU call it 'elitist'. Those parents and kids have the FREEDOM to participate in any activity they like, as long as they don't infringe on your rights.

How are you being infringed? This is pure envy.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it would do my aap kids no good to force them to sit in a classroom, bored, while the teacher paced the lessons for the average kid.

No one is advocating getting rid of differentiation. If, hypothetically, a base school qualifies 20 kids for the center, some of us are having trouble seeing why their needs can't be met at the base school, with the top 20 kids in math being grouped together for advanced math class, and the top 20 kids in language arts being grouped together for the language arts block. There's no reason AAP and gen ed kids need to be separated for homeroom, lunch, recess, or specials. At each school, there might be a couple kids who are truly outliers and would be poorly served by this model. But those same kids are already poorly served by AAP.

Our local elementary school is currently doing this and it isn’t working. They are actively looking for a solution. History : they had self contained aap classrooms for years, and changed to a model that integrates the aap kids with gen ed for science and history (supposedly aap curriculum for those areas), and pullouts for laungage arts and math. Here’s the problem. The kids are wasting time switching classes over and over. Kids are being shuffled to and from teacher to teacher, and are not able to form solid relationships with any of the teachers. Kids get lost in the shuffle.

The supposed ‘AAP’ science and history instruction that all student are receiving is virtually indistinguishable from the regular instruction the gen ed kids were recievinf before this change was made. Teachers are teaching to the average student in those areas, and the aap kids are bored and disengaging. The level 4 services the kids are supposed to be recievinf is basically level 3 services. The motivation for this change was to better serve the gen ed student, and to give them access to the resources the level 4 students receive. It’s done nothing but devalue the instruction the level 4 students receive. So we are benefitting the gen ed kids at the expense of the AAP kids.

It’s probably obvious that I send my AAP kid to the center.

So since you send your kids to a center, you don't actually have experience of this model. I agree this model does not work that well in all schools, however as long as the classes are near to each other, switching takes very little time and actually is good for children to have a break from one subject to the next. This is how things are done in middle as well. Not convinced switching is a problem. My kids are in this type of program and switching is not a concern other than the fact that the child has more than one teacher, but as kids age that could happen anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, you are not even part of that community, but you find something so wrong with that field trip, because of the gossip that it creates.

You should run for the school board and really make a positive change.

You think the AAP program will last forever here and your little field trip doesn't make a difference. It does. Things change. I like AAP for the academic rigor it provides my child. I hate your field trip for the elitism it promotes.

I am the poster you quoted and I am NOT part of the community in questions. It is absurd that you 'hate' a field trip because YOU call it 'elitist'. Those parents and kids have the FREEDOM to participate in any activity they like, as long as they don't infringe on your rights.

How are you being infringed? This is pure envy.

+1

I am not being infringed. Both my kids are in AAP. Can you not see how your little action is causing people to hate the program which will eventually lead to either its limitations or its demise. There is absolutely NO ENVY! I would not dream of putting my child in a school where the AAP kids only had other AAP kids as friends.

[Anonymous]

15:44 again. For some background, our local school is a LLIV rated GS 9 and so is our center - which actually has a camping trip for all kids AAP and general ed sponsored by the school. I don't care much about Keene Mill other than the fact that this Al Fresco field trip gives AAP a bad name. Here's an old thread with pages and pages on how it is an elitest program.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/296069.page#3552103

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

many may not be, but what do you do for the ones that are?

They're not having their needs met in AAP as it is, so why does it really matter? I have the kid who is grade skipped in AAP math and still finds everything incredibly slow. Right now, the system seems to be set up such that the bulk of kids in AAP don't need it, and it's completely inadequate for those who do need it. Kids who actually are gifted need to enroll in outside gifted programs if they want their needs met.

you are still not answering the question: what do you do for the kids that are advanced in everything?

From how I read your post, your kid is advanced in math, not everything, so you can't understand how you can be advanced in everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids are wasting time switching classes over and over. Kids are being shuffled to and from teacher to teacher, and are not able to form solid relationships with any of the teachers. Kids get lost in the shuffle.

At my local elementary, the second graders switch classrooms for math, reading pullouts, and word study with no problems at all. If regular 7 year olds are capable of handling this, I imagine that most AAP qualified 3rd-6th graders would be fine as well.

Second grade is too young for that. The second graders absolutely have problems with that switching -- they may not have voiced those problems to you or even realized. But it's not best practice for 2nd graders to switch classrooms because they're not old enough for that yet.

No its not. My kid did that in 2nd grade (in 8th now)... and it was great! The 2nd gr teachers were all well organized and had good system.
In fact, I found it better as my kid got to know kids outside his class and had more friends at recess.
The kids are definitely not too young for this. They switch for 1 or 2 subjects and rest in their home classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Falls Church City is a very elitist neighborhood separate from any poors, so I find this whole discussion a little silly. Falls Church City has the smallest differential between students in probably the entire DMV area. And because they are wealthy they can do a lot for each child. Fairfax has kids with many needs that Falls Church City just doesn't have. Seems silly to be complaining about AAP when Falls Church City does nothing to help bring in more lower income housing etc. which would really help diversify the city.

OP here. I agree. That is why we are moving. We want to move into a more diverse neighborhood. There is no other reason we are moving. My kids are getting a great academic education in FCC, but not a real world education by not seeing economic and racial diversity. Because of our concern about integration, I was alarmed by the idea of separation of the "smart kids" and generally have an allergic reaction to putting kids in boxes.

Haven't read through the thread, but why don't you move to DC, OP? Capitol Hill public schools have lots of interesting economic diversity issues and it will teach both your kids and you so much that you'll never learn in Fairfax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They are not. At the AAP centers the AAP and non-AAP kids do lunch, PE, and specials together.

It depends on the school.

Then its not AAP policy to keep them separated... I had 2 kids at 3 different AAP center schools (due to rezoning and MS)... and we not seen it.
So AAP and non-AAP kids do get classes together (non-academic ones).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

many may not be, but what do you do for the ones that are?

They're not having their needs met in AAP as it is, so why does it really matter? I have the kid who is grade skipped in AAP math and still finds everything incredibly slow. Right now, the system seems to be set up such that the bulk of kids in AAP don't need it, and it's completely inadequate for those who do need it. Kids who actually are gifted need to enroll in outside gifted programs if they want their needs met.

you are still not answering the question: what do you do for the kids that are advanced in everything?

From how I read your post, your kid is advanced in math, not everything, so you can't understand how you can be advanced in everything.

No. Mine is advanced in everything. He's just outlier-advanced in math and regular-AAP advanced in language arts. Unless a kid is multiple grade levels ahead, it should be possible to meet that kid's needs at the base school with class switching. Very few AAP kids are that advanced, and the ones who are will still be bored and unchallenged in an AAP center.

The kids who are actually gifted would benefit from a return to the old program, wherein only 5-ish percent of the kids are served.

[Anonymous]

If OP really wants an honest answer, I grew up in an AAP type program myself, and I didn't grow up to be an elitist or a person who wanted to be separated from others economically or racially. Largely because it's not AAP that teaches you to think that way -- it's your family that does. So long as you are one that believes in those values yourself, you'll be able to share them with your children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If OP really wants an honest answer, I grew up in an AAP type program myself, and I didn't grow up to be an elitist or a person who wanted to be separated from others economically or racially. Largely because it's not AAP that teaches you to think that way -- it's your family that does. So long as you are one that believes in those values yourself, you'll be able to share them with your children.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If OP really wants an honest answer, I grew up in an AAP type program myself, and I didn't grow up to be an elitist or a person who wanted to be separated from others economically or racially. Largely because it's not AAP that teaches you to think that way -- it's your family that does. So long as you are one that believes in those values yourself, you'll be able to share them with your children.

Finally, someone with the truth!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids are wasting time switching classes over and over. Kids are being shuffled to and from teacher to teacher, and are not able to form solid relationships with any of the teachers. Kids get lost in the shuffle.

At my local elementary, the second graders switch classrooms for math, reading pullouts, and word study with no problems at all. If regular 7 year olds are capable of handling this, I imagine that most AAP qualified 3rd-6th graders would be fine as well.

Second grade is too young for that. The second graders absolutely have problems with that switching -- they may not have voiced those problems to you or even realized. But it's not best practice for 2nd graders to switch classrooms because they're not old enough for that yet.

No its not. My kid did that in 2nd grade (in 8th now)... and it was great! The 2nd gr teachers were all well organized and had good system.
In fact, I found it better as my kid got to know kids outside his class and had more friends at recess.
The kids are definitely not too young for this. They switch for 1 or 2 subjects and rest in their home classroom.

My kids are fairly anxious, and they had no problems at all with class switching in lower elementary. It was exciting for them to meet new teachers and socialize with more of their classmates. Are people here actually arguing that it's too disruptive for a 7 year old who is advanced in math to switch classrooms and take a more advanced math class, but it's somehow not disruptive to have the same child completely switch schools, perhaps leaving behind many friends, one year later?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids are wasting time switching classes over and over. Kids are being shuffled to and from teacher to teacher, and are not able to form solid relationships with any of the teachers. Kids get lost in the shuffle.

At my local elementary, the second graders switch classrooms for math, reading pullouts, and word study with no problems at all. If regular 7 year olds are capable of handling this, I imagine that most AAP qualified 3rd-6th graders would be fine as well.

Second grade is too young for that. The second graders absolutely have problems with that switching -- they may not have voiced those problems to you or even realized. But it's not best practice for 2nd graders to switch classrooms because they're not old enough for that yet.

No its not. My kid did that in 2nd grade (in 8th now)... and it was great! The 2nd gr teachers were all well organized and had good system.
In fact, I found it better as my kid got to know kids outside his class and had more friends at recess.
The kids are definitely not too young for this. They switch for 1 or 2 subjects and rest in their home classroom.

My kids are fairly anxious, and they had no problems at all with class switching in lower elementary. It was exciting for them to meet new teachers and socialize with more of their classmates. Are people here actually arguing that it's too disruptive for a 7 year old who is advanced in math to switch classrooms and take a more advanced math class, but it's somehow not disruptive to have the same child completely switch schools, perhaps leaving behind many friends, one year later?

Thank you for pointing out the logical fallacy.

[Anonymous]

Tell me again how AAP is different from travel sports? No one complains about that.