College admissions from APS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jay Matthews and others would tell you that students, particularly those typically considered disadvantaged, benefit from challenging themselves and taking AP classes regardless of the outcome on the AP exam. So, the Challenge Index is a valid measure of how well schools are doing at encouraging less advantaged students to step up to, hopefully, a college track. For those very same reasons, overall AP pass rates will be lower at those schools than the FCPS schools were the percentages are lower.

The Challenge Index rankings are measuring the average number of AP classes taken by graduates, and the percentage of graduates passing at least one AP exam, but not the percentage of graduates taking at least one AP class.

When you drill down, it's hard to think of any area where an APS high school looks great compared to Langley or McLean, and that won't change until APS convinces Asians that their kids will have access to opportunities comparable to AAP in FCPS.

OP here, and you've indirectly gotten to the heart of my question, although I don't think that was your intent. What I was really trying to get at is whether going to APS rather than FCPS or private school is likely to hurt my kids in the application process. My children, given their same natural aptitude, their same level of parental involvement and resources, etc., are they going to get into meaningfully better colleges if they go to school elsewhere. Given how much of the discussion of the differences in admissions statistics has focused on things like whether certain populations are attracted to FCPS rather than APS, whether more top students choose to go to UVa rather than HYP, etc., it doesn't seem like there's a basis to think it does.

There is no meaningful difference among the top 20 universities and top 20 SLACs. Differences in settings, focus, size, etc but it’s jot like going to Yale instead of Amherst is going to “meaningfully” change the trajectory of your kid’s life.

Agreed. But there is a significant difference between 1) the Top 25 colleges and Top 25 universities and 2) colleges and universities outside the Top 40 on each of these respective lists. Falling into that 2) category will have your kid playing catch-up the rest of his/her life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jay Matthews and others would tell you that students, particularly those typically considered disadvantaged, benefit from challenging themselves and taking AP classes regardless of the outcome on the AP exam. So, the Challenge Index is a valid measure of how well schools are doing at encouraging less advantaged students to step up to, hopefully, a college track. For those very same reasons, overall AP pass rates will be lower at those schools than the FCPS schools were the percentages are lower.

The Challenge Index rankings are measuring the average number of AP classes taken by graduates, and the percentage of graduates passing at least one AP exam, but not the percentage of graduates taking at least one AP class.

When you drill down, it's hard to think of any area where an APS high school looks great compared to Langley or McLean, and that won't change until APS convinces Asians that their kids will have access to opportunities comparable to AAP in FCPS.

OP here, and you've indirectly gotten to the heart of my question, although I don't think that was your intent. What I was really trying to get at is whether going to APS rather than FCPS or private school is likely to hurt my kids in the application process. My children, given their same natural aptitude, their same level of parental involvement and resources, etc., are they going to get into meaningfully better colleges if they go to school elsewhere. Given how much of the discussion of the differences in admissions statistics has focused on things like whether certain populations are attracted to FCPS rather than APS, whether more top students choose to go to UVa rather than HYP, etc., it doesn't seem like there's a basis to think it does.

If you are fine with University of South Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, George Mason, VCU, Tech, Mary Washington, JMU or --as a stretch--UVa or W&M--then APS is fine. Otherwise, FCPS is a better move, and preferably McLean or Langley. Wilson (DC) and MoCo are also good options.

Your comment might be somewhat useful if it at all reflected the actual admissions stats for APS schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jay Matthews and others would tell you that students, particularly those typically considered disadvantaged, benefit from challenging themselves and taking AP classes regardless of the outcome on the AP exam. So, the Challenge Index is a valid measure of how well schools are doing at encouraging less advantaged students to step up to, hopefully, a college track. For those very same reasons, overall AP pass rates will be lower at those schools than the FCPS schools were the percentages are lower.

The Challenge Index rankings are measuring the average number of AP classes taken by graduates, and the percentage of graduates passing at least one AP exam, but not the percentage of graduates taking at least one AP class.

When you drill down, it's hard to think of any area where an APS high school looks great compared to Langley or McLean, and that won't change until APS convinces Asians that their kids will have access to opportunities comparable to AAP in FCPS.

OP here, and you've indirectly gotten to the heart of my question, although I don't think that was your intent. What I was really trying to get at is whether going to APS rather than FCPS or private school is likely to hurt my kids in the application process. My children, given their same natural aptitude, their same level of parental involvement and resources, etc., are they going to get into meaningfully better colleges if they go to school elsewhere. Given how much of the discussion of the differences in admissions statistics has focused on things like whether certain populations are attracted to FCPS rather than APS, whether more top students choose to go to UVa rather than HYP, etc., it doesn't seem like there's a basis to think it does.

If you are fine with University of South Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, George Mason, VCU, Tech, Mary Washington, JMU or --as a stretch--UVa or W&M--then APS is fine. Otherwise, FCPS is a better move, and preferably McLean or Langley. Wilson (DC) and MoCo are also good options.

Your comment might be somewhat useful if it at all reflected the actual admissions stats for APS schools.

The truly scary part is that the PP actually believes that to be true. Strip out the additional Asian population and account for the higher percentage of immigrants and I'll bet the white UMC kids in FCPS are doing just about the same as those in Arlington.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jay Matthews and others would tell you that students, particularly those typically considered disadvantaged, benefit from challenging themselves and taking AP classes regardless of the outcome on the AP exam. So, the Challenge Index is a valid measure of how well schools are doing at encouraging less advantaged students to step up to, hopefully, a college track. For those very same reasons, overall AP pass rates will be lower at those schools than the FCPS schools were the percentages are lower.

The Challenge Index rankings are measuring the average number of AP classes taken by graduates, and the percentage of graduates passing at least one AP exam, but not the percentage of graduates taking at least one AP class.

When you drill down, it's hard to think of any area where an APS high school looks great compared to Langley or McLean, and that won't change until APS convinces Asians that their kids will have access to opportunities comparable to AAP in FCPS.

OP here, and you've indirectly gotten to the heart of my question, although I don't think that was your intent. What I was really trying to get at is whether going to APS rather than FCPS or private school is likely to hurt my kids in the application process. My children, given their same natural aptitude, their same level of parental involvement and resources, etc., are they going to get into meaningfully better colleges if they go to school elsewhere. Given how much of the discussion of the differences in admissions statistics has focused on things like whether certain populations are attracted to FCPS rather than APS, whether more top students choose to go to UVa rather than HYP, etc., it doesn't seem like there's a basis to think it does.

If you are fine with University of South Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, George Mason, VCU, Tech, Mary Washington, JMU or --as a stretch--UVa or W&M--then APS is fine. Otherwise, FCPS is a better move, and preferably McLean or Langley. Wilson (DC) and MoCo are also good options.

Your comment might be somewhat useful if it at all reflected the actual admissions stats for APS schools.

The truly scary part is that the PP actually believes that to be true. Strip out the additional Asian population and account for the higher percentage of immigrants and I'll bet the white UMC kids in FCPS are doing just about the same as those in Arlington.

DP here. I find it creepy when the APS parents invariably treat the experience of white UMC kids as the only relevant benchmark. Maybe that's part of the reason Asians avoid APS and the other minority students don't do as well as their FCPS peers. I guess we shouldn't be surprised when the GreatSchools scores of the high schools in Arlington are lower than the McLean and Vienna high schools. If some of that filters into how colleges look at APS applicants, can't say I'd be surprised.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jay Matthews and others would tell you that students, particularly those typically considered disadvantaged, benefit from challenging themselves and taking AP classes regardless of the outcome on the AP exam. So, the Challenge Index is a valid measure of how well schools are doing at encouraging less advantaged students to step up to, hopefully, a college track. For those very same reasons, overall AP pass rates will be lower at those schools than the FCPS schools were the percentages are lower.

The Challenge Index rankings are measuring the average number of AP classes taken by graduates, and the percentage of graduates passing at least one AP exam, but not the percentage of graduates taking at least one AP class.

When you drill down, it's hard to think of any area where an APS high school looks great compared to Langley or McLean, and that won't change until APS convinces Asians that their kids will have access to opportunities comparable to AAP in FCPS.

OP here, and you've indirectly gotten to the heart of my question, although I don't think that was your intent. What I was really trying to get at is whether going to APS rather than FCPS or private school is likely to hurt my kids in the application process. My children, given their same natural aptitude, their same level of parental involvement and resources, etc., are they going to get into meaningfully better colleges if they go to school elsewhere. Given how much of the discussion of the differences in admissions statistics has focused on things like whether certain populations are attracted to FCPS rather than APS, whether more top students choose to go to UVa rather than HYP, etc., it doesn't seem like there's a basis to think it does.

If you are fine with University of South Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, George Mason, VCU, Tech, Mary Washington, JMU or --as a stretch--UVa or W&M--then APS is fine. Otherwise, FCPS is a better move, and preferably McLean or Langley. Wilson (DC) and MoCo are also good options.

Your comment might be somewhat useful if it at all reflected the actual admissions stats for APS schools.

The truly scary part is that the PP actually believes that to be true. Strip out the additional Asian population and account for the higher percentage of immigrants and I'll bet the white UMC kids in FCPS are doing just about the same as those in Arlington.

The biggest indicator of a kid's success is the education/intellect level of the of the parents. Hard to imagine that APS vs McLean vs generic FCPS would generate outcomes that are different in a meaningful way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you protest too much. Yorktown once was considered one of the three top public schools in the DC region. For whatever reason, it's not even close to being in that category any longer, and no one really believes families in North Arlington, which has actually gotten wealthier, are indifferent about this.

Top 3 in the DC region? When was that!?
Or do you mean top 3 in NoVa?

Definitely region.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/local/high-school-challenge-2017/

Seriously ! ? Jay Matthews' challenge index?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jay Matthews and others would tell you that students, particularly those typically considered disadvantaged, benefit from challenging themselves and taking AP classes regardless of the outcome on the AP exam. So, the Challenge Index is a valid measure of how well schools are doing at encouraging less advantaged students to step up to, hopefully, a college track. For those very same reasons, overall AP pass rates will be lower at those schools than the FCPS schools were the percentages are lower.

The Challenge Index rankings are measuring the average number of AP classes taken by graduates, and the percentage of graduates passing at least one AP exam, but not the percentage of graduates taking at least one AP class.

When you drill down, it's hard to think of any area where an APS high school looks great compared to Langley or McLean, and that won't change until APS convinces Asians that their kids will have access to opportunities comparable to AAP in FCPS.

OP here, and you've indirectly gotten to the heart of my question, although I don't think that was your intent. What I was really trying to get at is whether going to APS rather than FCPS or private school is likely to hurt my kids in the application process. My children, given their same natural aptitude, their same level of parental involvement and resources, etc., are they going to get into meaningfully better colleges if they go to school elsewhere. Given how much of the discussion of the differences in admissions statistics has focused on things like whether certain populations are attracted to FCPS rather than APS, whether more top students choose to go to UVa rather than HYP, etc., it doesn't seem like there's a basis to think it does.

If you are fine with University of South Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, George Mason, VCU, Tech, Mary Washington, JMU or --as a stretch--UVa or W&M--then APS is fine. Otherwise, FCPS is a better move, and preferably McLean or Langley. Wilson (DC) and MoCo are also good options.

Your comment might be somewhat useful if it at all reflected the actual admissions stats for APS schools.

The truly scary part is that the PP actually believes that to be true. Strip out the additional Asian population and account for the higher percentage of immigrants and I'll bet the white UMC kids in FCPS are doing just about the same as those in Arlington.

DP here. I find it creepy when the APS parents invariably treat the experience of white UMC kids as the only relevant benchmark. Maybe that's part of the reason Asians avoid APS and the other minority students don't do as well as their FCPS peers. I guess we shouldn't be surprised when the GreatSchools scores of the high schools in Arlington are lower than the McLean and Vienna high schools. If some of that filters into how colleges look at APS applicants, can't say I'd be surprised.

OP here, I'm not the person you're directly responding to but I wanted to address this anyway. While we are white UMC, I don't think that is the only relevant benchmark. My question truly was going to similarly-situated kids, so while the benchmark for my kids in that respect is white UMC (with some qualifications I'll get to in a moment), if my kids were economically disadvantaged and/or racial minorities, those would be the relevant benchmarks for me. When I originally asked the question, I was trying to get at all of these benchmarks, whether for individual children, taking their backgrounds as a given, does going to FCPS vs APS make a difference in the long run? If there is a cultural reason that the Asian community in this area tends to be more drawn to FCPS because of the improved odds of getting into TJ, that's not relevant to my kids because we've made the decision that we specifically don't want our kids going to TJ (and no, not because of the Asian population there but because DH went there and he doesn't care for how tunnel visioned the school is on a certain type of academic achievement). If a certain portion of the APS population that's more likely to get into Ivies anyway decides to put their kids in particular private schools because they have better admissions stats, that's not relevant to us either because it's a priority for us to support public schools by staying in them, even if the public school won't give the same edge on college admissions.

If there is a meaningful difference for similarly-situated students in a particular group, whether it's white UMC students or minority students or economically disadvantaged students or students with disabilities, that is an issue I would want to understand better, including how it could be addressed.

[Anonymous]

For the graduating class of 2016, 3.86% of APS seniors ended up at UVA vs. 5.37% of FCPS seniors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you protest too much. Yorktown once was considered one of the three top public schools in the DC region. For whatever reason, it's not even close to being in that category any longer, and no one really believes families in North Arlington, which has actually gotten wealthier, are indifferent about this.

Top 3 in the DC region? When was that!?
Or do you mean top 3 in NoVa?

Definitely region.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/local/high-school-challenge-2017/

Seriously ! ? Jay Matthews' challenge index?

And the number of URM Princeton admits is a better metric? Right...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jay Matthews and others would tell you that students, particularly those typically considered disadvantaged, benefit from challenging themselves and taking AP classes regardless of the outcome on the AP exam. So, the Challenge Index is a valid measure of how well schools are doing at encouraging less advantaged students to step up to, hopefully, a college track. For those very same reasons, overall AP pass rates will be lower at those schools than the FCPS schools were the percentages are lower.

The Challenge Index rankings are measuring the average number of AP classes taken by graduates, and the percentage of graduates passing at least one AP exam, but not the percentage of graduates taking at least one AP class.

When you drill down, it's hard to think of any area where an APS high school looks great compared to Langley or McLean, and that won't change until APS convinces Asians that their kids will have access to opportunities comparable to AAP in FCPS.

OP here, and you've indirectly gotten to the heart of my question, although I don't think that was your intent. What I was really trying to get at is whether going to APS rather than FCPS or private school is likely to hurt my kids in the application process. My children, given their same natural aptitude, their same level of parental involvement and resources, etc., are they going to get into meaningfully better colleges if they go to school elsewhere. Given how much of the discussion of the differences in admissions statistics has focused on things like whether certain populations are attracted to FCPS rather than APS, whether more top students choose to go to UVa rather than HYP, etc., it doesn't seem like there's a basis to think it does.

If you are fine with University of South Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, George Mason, VCU, Tech, Mary Washington, JMU or --as a stretch--UVa or W&M--then APS is fine. Otherwise, FCPS is a better move, and preferably McLean or Langley. Wilson (DC) and MoCo are also good options.

Your comment might be somewhat useful if it at all reflected the actual admissions stats for APS schools.

The truly scary part is that the PP actually believes that to be true. Strip out the additional Asian population and account for the higher percentage of immigrants and I'll bet the white UMC kids in FCPS are doing just about the same as those in Arlington.

DP here. I find it creepy when the APS parents invariably treat the experience of white UMC kids as the only relevant benchmark. Maybe that's part of the reason Asians avoid APS and the other minority students don't do as well as their FCPS peers. I guess we shouldn't be surprised when the GreatSchools scores of the high schools in Arlington are lower than the McLean and Vienna high schools. If some of that filters into how colleges look at APS applicants, can't say I'd be surprised.

OP here, I'm not the person you're directly responding to but I wanted to address this anyway. While we are white UMC, I don't think that is the only relevant benchmark. My question truly was going to similarly-situated kids, so while the benchmark for my kids in that respect is white UMC (with some qualifications I'll get to in a moment), if my kids were economically disadvantaged and/or racial minorities, those would be the relevant benchmarks for me. When I originally asked the question, I was trying to get at all of these benchmarks, whether for individual children, taking their backgrounds as a given, does going to FCPS vs APS make a difference in the long run? If there is a cultural reason that the Asian community in this area tends to be more drawn to FCPS because of the improved odds of getting into TJ, that's not relevant to my kids because we've made the decision that we specifically don't want our kids going to TJ (and no, not because of the Asian population there but because DH went there and he doesn't care for how tunnel visioned the school is on a certain type of academic achievement). If a certain portion of the APS population that's more likely to get into Ivies anyway decides to put their kids in particular private schools because they have better admissions stats, that's not relevant to us either because it's a priority for us to support public schools by staying in them, even if the public school won't give the same edge on college admissions.

If there is a meaningful difference for similarly-situated students in a particular group, whether it's white UMC students or minority students or economically disadvantaged students or students with disabilities, that is an issue I would want to understand better, including how it could be addressed.

I think you've got the right perspective. Taking TJ out of the equation (although you don't have to because APS kids go to TJ), similar kids going to McLean, Langley, YHS, W-L, are going to have similar outcomes. The difference isn't meaningful. Your commute and $$$ should drive your decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jay Matthews and others would tell you that students, particularly those typically considered disadvantaged, benefit from challenging themselves and taking AP classes regardless of the outcome on the AP exam. So, the Challenge Index is a valid measure of how well schools are doing at encouraging less advantaged students to step up to, hopefully, a college track. For those very same reasons, overall AP pass rates will be lower at those schools than the FCPS schools were the percentages are lower.

The Challenge Index rankings are measuring the average number of AP classes taken by graduates, and the percentage of graduates passing at least one AP exam, but not the percentage of graduates taking at least one AP class.

When you drill down, it's hard to think of any area where an APS high school looks great compared to Langley or McLean, and that won't change until APS convinces Asians that their kids will have access to opportunities comparable to AAP in FCPS.

OP here, and you've indirectly gotten to the heart of my question, although I don't think that was your intent. What I was really trying to get at is whether going to APS rather than FCPS or private school is likely to hurt my kids in the application process. My children, given their same natural aptitude, their same level of parental involvement and resources, etc., are they going to get into meaningfully better colleges if they go to school elsewhere. Given how much of the discussion of the differences in admissions statistics has focused on things like whether certain populations are attracted to FCPS rather than APS, whether more top students choose to go to UVa rather than HYP, etc., it doesn't seem like there's a basis to think it does.

If you are fine with University of South Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, George Mason, VCU, Tech, Mary Washington, JMU or --as a stretch--UVa or W&M--then APS is fine. Otherwise, FCPS is a better move, and preferably McLean or Langley. Wilson (DC) and MoCo are also good options.

Your comment might be somewhat useful if it at all reflected the actual admissions stats for APS schools.

The truly scary part is that the PP actually believes that to be true. Strip out the additional Asian population and account for the higher percentage of immigrants and I'll bet the white UMC kids in FCPS are doing just about the same as those in Arlington.

DP here. I find it creepy when the APS parents invariably treat the experience of white UMC kids as the only relevant benchmark. Maybe that's part of the reason Asians avoid APS and the other minority students don't do as well as their FCPS peers. I guess we shouldn't be surprised when the GreatSchools scores of the high schools in Arlington are lower than the McLean and Vienna high schools. If some of that filters into how colleges look at APS applicants, can't say I'd be surprised.

OP here, I'm not the person you're directly responding to but I wanted to address this anyway. While we are white UMC, I don't think that is the only relevant benchmark. My question truly was going to similarly-situated kids, so while the benchmark for my kids in that respect is white UMC (with some qualifications I'll get to in a moment), if my kids were economically disadvantaged and/or racial minorities, those would be the relevant benchmarks for me. When I originally asked the question, I was trying to get at all of these benchmarks, whether for individual children, taking their backgrounds as a given, does going to FCPS vs APS make a difference in the long run? If there is a cultural reason that the Asian community in this area tends to be more drawn to FCPS because of the improved odds of getting into TJ, that's not relevant to my kids because we've made the decision that we specifically don't want our kids going to TJ (and no, not because of the Asian population there but because DH went there and he doesn't care for how tunnel visioned the school is on a certain type of academic achievement). If a certain portion of the APS population that's more likely to get into Ivies anyway decides to put their kids in particular private schools because they have better admissions stats, that's not relevant to us either because it's a priority for us to support public schools by staying in them, even if the public school won't give the same edge on college admissions.

If there is a meaningful difference for similarly-situated students in a particular group, whether it's white UMC students or minority students or economically disadvantaged students or students with disabilities, that is an issue I would want to understand better, including how it could be addressed.

I think you've got the right perspective. Taking TJ out of the equation (although you don't have to because APS kids go to TJ), similar kids going to McLean, Langley, YHS, W-L, are going to have similar outcomes. The difference isn't meaningful. Your commute and $$$ should drive your decision.

Wrong. The AAP programs in Fairfax attract a stronger peer group. The difference starts to manifest itself in middle school and is even greater in high school. Plus the capacity problems in APS at the HS level are a big turn-off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jay Matthews and others would tell you that students, particularly those typically considered disadvantaged, benefit from challenging themselves and taking AP classes regardless of the outcome on the AP exam. So, the Challenge Index is a valid measure of how well schools are doing at encouraging less advantaged students to step up to, hopefully, a college track. For those very same reasons, overall AP pass rates will be lower at those schools than the FCPS schools were the percentages are lower.

The Challenge Index rankings are measuring the average number of AP classes taken by graduates, and the percentage of graduates passing at least one AP exam, but not the percentage of graduates taking at least one AP class.

When you drill down, it's hard to think of any area where an APS high school looks great compared to Langley or McLean, and that won't change until APS convinces Asians that their kids will have access to opportunities comparable to AAP in FCPS.

OP here, and you've indirectly gotten to the heart of my question, although I don't think that was your intent. What I was really trying to get at is whether going to APS rather than FCPS or private school is likely to hurt my kids in the application process. My children, given their same natural aptitude, their same level of parental involvement and resources, etc., are they going to get into meaningfully better colleges if they go to school elsewhere. Given how much of the discussion of the differences in admissions statistics has focused on things like whether certain populations are attracted to FCPS rather than APS, whether more top students choose to go to UVa rather than HYP, etc., it doesn't seem like there's a basis to think it does.

If you are fine with University of South Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, George Mason, VCU, Tech, Mary Washington, JMU or --as a stretch--UVa or W&M--then APS is fine. Otherwise, FCPS is a better move, and preferably McLean or Langley. Wilson (DC) and MoCo are also good options.

Your comment might be somewhat useful if it at all reflected the actual admissions stats for APS schools.

The truly scary part is that the PP actually believes that to be true. Strip out the additional Asian population and account for the higher percentage of immigrants and I'll bet the white UMC kids in FCPS are doing just about the same as those in Arlington.

DP here. I find it creepy when the APS parents invariably treat the experience of white UMC kids as the only relevant benchmark. Maybe that's part of the reason Asians avoid APS and the other minority students don't do as well as their FCPS peers. I guess we shouldn't be surprised when the GreatSchools scores of the high schools in Arlington are lower than the McLean and Vienna high schools. If some of that filters into how colleges look at APS applicants, can't say I'd be surprised.

OP here, I'm not the person you're directly responding to but I wanted to address this anyway. While we are white UMC, I don't think that is the only relevant benchmark. My question truly was going to similarly-situated kids, so while the benchmark for my kids in that respect is white UMC (with some qualifications I'll get to in a moment), if my kids were economically disadvantaged and/or racial minorities, those would be the relevant benchmarks for me. When I originally asked the question, I was trying to get at all of these benchmarks, whether for individual children, taking their backgrounds as a given, does going to FCPS vs APS make a difference in the long run? If there is a cultural reason that the Asian community in this area tends to be more drawn to FCPS because of the improved odds of getting into TJ, that's not relevant to my kids because we've made the decision that we specifically don't want our kids going to TJ (and no, not because of the Asian population there but because DH went there and he doesn't care for how tunnel visioned the school is on a certain type of academic achievement). If a certain portion of the APS population that's more likely to get into Ivies anyway decides to put their kids in particular private schools because they have better admissions stats, that's not relevant to us either because it's a priority for us to support public schools by staying in them, even if the public school won't give the same edge on college admissions.

If there is a meaningful difference for similarly-situated students in a particular group, whether it's white UMC students or minority students or economically disadvantaged students or students with disabilities, that is an issue I would want to understand better, including how it could be addressed.

I think you've got the right perspective. Taking TJ out of the equation (although you don't have to because APS kids go to TJ), similar kids going to McLean, Langley, YHS, W-L, are going to have similar outcomes. The difference isn't meaningful. Your commute and $$$ should drive your decision.

Wrong. The AAP programs in Fairfax attract a stronger peer group. The difference starts to manifest itself in middle school and is even greater in high school. Plus the capacity problems in APS at the HS level are a big turn-off.

Nope, just attracts tiger moms. It won't get a mediocre kid into Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jay Matthews and others would tell you that students, particularly those typically considered disadvantaged, benefit from challenging themselves and taking AP classes regardless of the outcome on the AP exam. So, the Challenge Index is a valid measure of how well schools are doing at encouraging less advantaged students to step up to, hopefully, a college track. For those very same reasons, overall AP pass rates will be lower at those schools than the FCPS schools were the percentages are lower.

The Challenge Index rankings are measuring the average number of AP classes taken by graduates, and the percentage of graduates passing at least one AP exam, but not the percentage of graduates taking at least one AP class.

When you drill down, it's hard to think of any area where an APS high school looks great compared to Langley or McLean, and that won't change until APS convinces Asians that their kids will have access to opportunities comparable to AAP in FCPS.

OP here, and you've indirectly gotten to the heart of my question, although I don't think that was your intent. What I was really trying to get at is whether going to APS rather than FCPS or private school is likely to hurt my kids in the application process. My children, given their same natural aptitude, their same level of parental involvement and resources, etc., are they going to get into meaningfully better colleges if they go to school elsewhere. Given how much of the discussion of the differences in admissions statistics has focused on things like whether certain populations are attracted to FCPS rather than APS, whether more top students choose to go to UVa rather than HYP, etc., it doesn't seem like there's a basis to think it does.

If you are fine with University of South Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, George Mason, VCU, Tech, Mary Washington, JMU or --as a stretch--UVa or W&M--then APS is fine. Otherwise, FCPS is a better move, and preferably McLean or Langley. Wilson (DC) and MoCo are also good options.

Your comment might be somewhat useful if it at all reflected the actual admissions stats for APS schools.

The truly scary part is that the PP actually believes that to be true. Strip out the additional Asian population and account for the higher percentage of immigrants and I'll bet the white UMC kids in FCPS are doing just about the same as those in Arlington.

DP here. I find it creepy when the APS parents invariably treat the experience of white UMC kids as the only relevant benchmark. Maybe that's part of the reason Asians avoid APS and the other minority students don't do as well as their FCPS peers. I guess we shouldn't be surprised when the GreatSchools scores of the high schools in Arlington are lower than the McLean and Vienna high schools. If some of that filters into how colleges look at APS applicants, can't say I'd be surprised.

OP here, I'm not the person you're directly responding to but I wanted to address this anyway. While we are white UMC, I don't think that is the only relevant benchmark. My question truly was going to similarly-situated kids, so while the benchmark for my kids in that respect is white UMC (with some qualifications I'll get to in a moment), if my kids were economically disadvantaged and/or racial minorities, those would be the relevant benchmarks for me. When I originally asked the question, I was trying to get at all of these benchmarks, whether for individual children, taking their backgrounds as a given, does going to FCPS vs APS make a difference in the long run? If there is a cultural reason that the Asian community in this area tends to be more drawn to FCPS because of the improved odds of getting into TJ, that's not relevant to my kids because we've made the decision that we specifically don't want our kids going to TJ (and no, not because of the Asian population there but because DH went there and he doesn't care for how tunnel visioned the school is on a certain type of academic achievement). If a certain portion of the APS population that's more likely to get into Ivies anyway decides to put their kids in particular private schools because they have better admissions stats, that's not relevant to us either because it's a priority for us to support public schools by staying in them, even if the public school won't give the same edge on college admissions.

If there is a meaningful difference for similarly-situated students in a particular group, whether it's white UMC students or minority students or economically disadvantaged students or students with disabilities, that is an issue I would want to understand better, including how it could be addressed.

I think you've got the right perspective. Taking TJ out of the equation (although you don't have to because APS kids go to TJ), similar kids going to McLean, Langley, YHS, W-L, are going to have similar outcomes. The difference isn't meaningful. Your commute and $$$ should drive your decision.

Wrong. The AAP programs in Fairfax attract a stronger peer group. The difference starts to manifest itself in middle school and is even greater in high school. Plus the capacity problems in APS at the HS level are a big turn-off.

Nope, just attracts tiger moms. It won't get a mediocre kid into Harvard.

Mediocre and racist is a bad combination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OP here, I'm not the person you're directly responding to but I wanted to address this anyway. While we are white UMC, I don't think that is the only relevant benchmark. My question truly was going to similarly-situated kids, so while the benchmark for my kids in that respect is white UMC (with some qualifications I'll get to in a moment), if my kids were economically disadvantaged and/or racial minorities, those would be the relevant benchmarks for me. When I originally asked the question, I was trying to get at all of these benchmarks, whether for individual children, taking their backgrounds as a given, does going to FCPS vs APS make a difference in the long run? If there is a cultural reason that the Asian community in this area tends to be more drawn to FCPS because of the improved odds of getting into TJ, that's not relevant to my kids because we've made the decision that we specifically don't want our kids going to TJ (and no, not because of the Asian population there but because DH went there and he doesn't care for how tunnel visioned the school is on a certain type of academic achievement). If a certain portion of the APS population that's more likely to get into Ivies anyway decides to put their kids in particular private schools because they have better admissions stats, that's not relevant to us either because it's a priority for us to support public schools by staying in them, even if the public school won't give the same edge on college admissions.

If there is a meaningful difference for similarly-situated students in a particular group, whether it's white UMC students or minority students or economically disadvantaged students or students with disabilities, that is an issue I would want to understand better, including how it could be addressed.

APS thanks you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP here, I'm not the person you're directly responding to but I wanted to address this anyway. While we are white UMC, I don't think that is the only relevant benchmark. My question truly was going to similarly-situated kids, so while the benchmark for my kids in that respect is white UMC (with some qualifications I'll get to in a moment), if my kids were economically disadvantaged and/or racial minorities, those would be the relevant benchmarks for me. When I originally asked the question, I was trying to get at all of these benchmarks, whether for individual children, taking their backgrounds as a given, does going to FCPS vs APS make a difference in the long run? If there is a cultural reason that the Asian community in this area tends to be more drawn to FCPS because of the improved odds of getting into TJ, that's not relevant to my kids because we've made the decision that we specifically don't want our kids going to TJ (and no, not because of the Asian population there but because DH went there and he doesn't care for how tunnel visioned the school is on a certain type of academic achievement). If a certain portion of the APS population that's more likely to get into Ivies anyway decides to put their kids in particular private schools because they have better admissions stats, that's not relevant to us either because it's a priority for us to support public schools by staying in them, even if the public school won't give the same edge on college admissions.

If there is a meaningful difference for similarly-situated students in a particular group, whether it's white UMC students or minority students or economically disadvantaged students or students with disabilities, that is an issue I would want to understand better, including how it could be addressed.

APS thanks you

+1000. Let's just improve our college placement.