High expectation and no stress-- which high school in mcps is best ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think sometimes it is hard for parents whose kids struggle with academics to understand that it isn't the same for all kids. Just like your son/daughter can play multiple varsity sports as a sophomore with no problem, other people's sons and daughters can handle multiple APs with little stress. They don't necessarily need to spend hours on homework, because they "get it", just like some kids in sports don't need private coaching/expensive summer camps/etc because they have that natural ability. Every child has their strengths and interests --- they might not be yours.

The post about how colleges disregard kids who take 4+ APs a years is ridiculous. The strongest schools take the kids that take the most challenging classes. Admission stats show this. Even anecdotally, I do interviewing for both a large top 25 state school (not UVA) and an ivy, this is one of the main criteria (the out of state applicants are tying to get into the honors program or a merit scholarship). If I know that at the child's HS the typical for the top students is multiple APs, the applicant is not going to stand a chance unless they are the child of an alum or extraordinary in some other way (rarely sports - that's a different route and handled primarily by coaches).

This is why parents want schools they don't stress APs because colleges pit kids from the same school against each other to get into top schools. It creates a cut throat environment. If it is typical for kids to take 4Aps at your school, you better take 5 APs. You are fooling yourself if you think most kids are not stressed in this environment. You are also naive if you don't know that most those kids have tutors and take on toxic stress to get through it. There may be some that aren't but the majority are... And why do they to it because of people like you. Admissions officers have little time to really get to know a student, so they triage, and good kids are dumped... Just because you don't have a good way to measure success.

Now you have thousands of kids taking tons of APs ... Why... To impress you. And guess what many still don't .... They end up in the same college they would have ended up if they took just a few APs with a much better high school experience.

So really the problem is not just the counsellors at top HSs pushing kids into APs for ranking. YOU are more of a problem with our society today, preying off the fear of kids and parents that if they don't pour money into AP testing they won't appear to be "good enough" .... It pays the bills though, SAT prep, AP exams, .... so who cares if a few kids kill themselves in the process.

I'm guessing this is the PP. I'm not an Admissions Counselor, never said I was, I said I do interviews. The interview is the opposite of a checklist. It's a chance for a student to tell me their story.

Listen, reading through these threads it's clear that your child struggles academically and doesn't enjoy the challenge of understanding higher level material at this point in his/her life. Let your stressed out child play three sports and take regular track classes. He or she will have a happier high school experience and still have a happy and successful life. Let go of the idea that your child has to go to a top school or even UMD (which I personally think is a strong school), there are lots of great colleges out there.

I suspect you are one of the younger interviews. Some are a little more seasoned and see the big picture. NOT a checklist. You know when you are looking at a URM... there is a checklist... born in the country/born out, 1st generation vs 10th generation, what country, what race, etc. NOT a checklist...okay. You no longer have any credibility.

Sell the fear... "must not be able to handle it" and "won't go to a top school"... this is the fear that you sell to parents, so they can pay all that money into the SAT and AP industry. My child double majored at a top 25 school, in two sciences... and took Algebra freshman year. GASP! Why because I knew it didn't matter. He took 1 AP freshman year, 1 sophomore, 2 junior and 1 senior year.

Let go of the idea that kids can't be successful (or get in) unless they take 4APs a year. You are probably missing some very successful students with your very limited thinking. I would have been very happy if he had gone to Maryland, that was the message I always sent to him, not .... oh pity you won't even get into MD.

Hopefully your child got some reading comprehension skills from his/her father, I clearly said the interview is NOT a checklist and that the point of the interview is for students to explain why they did/or did not take 4 APS.

But your post again shows that you are pushing your child in too many directions. Entering college with two confirmed double majors, not a solid plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole discussion of W schools and APs got started because OP was asking for what many of us view as the impossible -- high expectations but no stress.

I'm not trying to convince her to move to a W cluster -- I've been saying as many ways as I can that that is not right for everyone. But I also think it is folly to believe that there can be high expectations in any facet of life without the accompanying stress. The question is how much and what kind of stress can you handle.

Some folks on this thread have been very emphatic that they think their kids are suffering from too much academic stress. I'm sure that's true. Some of us think it's going fine for our kids. People draw that line in different places. But any time you are pushed or challenged, it is going to feel stressful. And when it gets to be too much, parents can and should draw the line to protect their kids.

I agree. OP said no in the subject but clarified in her opening question that she really meant too much not none at all... " Is there a way to achieve excellence without too much homework/stress? Looking for a school cluster is balanced. "

I agree that it is a parents job to draw the line. Some can in any setting, other prefer to be with like minded kids/families when going through the HS years. They prefer being in an atmosphere of work hard and keep a healthy amount of stress in your life and learn how to deal with healthy stress.... and find a few things that you love to do (besides drinking and drugs).

Other believe that if you are not in the best and hardest classes their child is a failure and they would prefer not be be around a lot of that. Also the whole looking down on kids that go to non-flagship state schools is more prevalent is wealthy schools. You may want more for your child ... okay, but modeling to them that it is okay to talk down to or be rude to kids that don't have those desires or abilities is toxic. Even the interviewer talked with disdain about UMD, geez imagine what he says about Towson or UMBC.

Here is a little essay that was shared with counselors at school to help them understand what kids are deal with.

https://www.theodysseyonline.com/stop-putting-down-my-university

This is "the interviewer" - I (wrongly) thought that I was pretty clear that I think UMD is a strong school. I actually think that within the next 5-10 years it will be considered one of the great state universities (the same as the flagships in CA, TX, MI, UNC, etc). The PP (the sports person) was complaining that students take 4 APS a year and still go to their state school, I was arguing that neither students nor parents should be disappointed with that if the school is UMD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole discussion of W schools and APs got started because OP was asking for what many of us view as the impossible -- high expectations but no stress.

I'm not trying to convince her to move to a W cluster -- I've been saying as many ways as I can that that is not right for everyone. But I also think it is folly to believe that there can be high expectations in any facet of life without the accompanying stress. The question is how much and what kind of stress can you handle.

Some folks on this thread have been very emphatic that they think their kids are suffering from too much academic stress. I'm sure that's true. Some of us think it's going fine for our kids. People draw that line in different places. But any time you are pushed or challenged, it is going to feel stressful. And when it gets to be too much, parents can and should draw the line to protect their kids.

I agree. OP said no in the subject but clarified in her opening question that she really meant too much not none at all... " Is there a way to achieve excellence without too much homework/stress? Looking for a school cluster is balanced. "

I agree that it is a parents job to draw the line. Some can in any setting, other prefer to be with like minded kids/families when going through the HS years. They prefer being in an atmosphere of work hard and keep a healthy amount of stress in your life and learn how to deal with healthy stress.... and find a few things that you love to do (besides drinking and drugs).

Other believe that if you are not in the best and hardest classes their child is a failure and they would prefer not be be around a lot of that. Also the whole looking down on kids that go to non-flagship state schools is more prevalent is wealthy schools. You may want more for your child ... okay, but modeling to them that it is okay to talk down to or be rude to kids that don't have those desires or abilities is toxic. Even the interviewer talked with disdain about UMD, geez imagine what he says about Towson or UMBC.

Here is a little essay that was shared with counselors at school to help them understand what kids are deal with.

https://www.theodysseyonline.com/stop-putting-down-my-university

This is "the interviewer" - I (wrongly) thought that I was pretty clear that I think UMD is a strong school. I actually think that within the next 5-10 years it will be considered one of the great state universities (the same as the flagships in CA, TX, MI, UNC, etc). The PP (the sports person) was complaining that students take 4 APS a year and still go to their state school, I was arguing that neither students nor parents should be disappointed with that if the school is UMD.

I hope you are right! DC is at a magnet high school and so far he is happy to have UMD be the college he is most likely to attend (for financial reasons). I hope he will continue to feel this way when many of his classmates end up at higher ranked schools.
May I ask why you think it will have a higher reputation within 5-10 years?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think sometimes it is hard for parents whose kids struggle with academics to understand that it isn't the same for all kids. Just like your son/daughter can play multiple varsity sports as a sophomore with no problem, other people's sons and daughters can handle multiple APs with little stress. They don't necessarily need to spend hours on homework, because they "get it", just like some kids in sports don't need private coaching/expensive summer camps/etc because they have that natural ability. Every child has their strengths and interests --- they might not be yours.

The post about how colleges disregard kids who take 4+ APs a years is ridiculous. The strongest schools take the kids that take the most challenging classes. Admission stats show this. Even anecdotally, I do interviewing for both a large top 25 state school (not UVA) and an ivy, this is one of the main criteria (the out of state applicants are tying to get into the honors program or a merit scholarship). If I know that at the child's HS the typical for the top students is multiple APs, the applicant is not going to stand a chance unless they are the child of an alum or extraordinary in some other way (rarely sports - that's a different route and handled primarily by coaches).

This is why parents want schools they don't stress APs because colleges pit kids from the same school against each other to get into top schools. It creates a cut throat environment. If it is typical for kids to take 4Aps at your school, you better take 5 APs. You are fooling yourself if you think most kids are not stressed in this environment. You are also naive if you don't know that most those kids have tutors and take on toxic stress to get through it. There may be some that aren't but the majority are... And why do they to it because of people like you. Admissions officers have little time to really get to know a student, so they triage, and good kids are dumped... Just because you don't have a good way to measure success.

Now you have thousands of kids taking tons of APs ... Why... To impress you. And guess what many still don't .... They end up in the same college they would have ended up if they took just a few APs with a much better high school experience.

So really the problem is not just the counsellors at top HSs pushing kids into APs for ranking. YOU are more of a problem with our society today, preying off the fear of kids and parents that if they don't pour money into AP testing they won't appear to be "good enough" .... It pays the bills though, SAT prep, AP exams, .... so who cares if a few kids kill themselves in the process.

I'm guessing this is the PP. I'm not an Admissions Counselor, never said I was, I said I do interviews. The interview is the opposite of a checklist. It's a chance for a student to tell me their story.

Listen, reading through these threads it's clear that your child struggles academically and doesn't enjoy the challenge of understanding higher level material at this point in his/her life. Let your stressed out child play three sports and take regular track classes. He or she will have a happier high school experience and still have a happy and successful life. Let go of the idea that your child has to go to a top school or even UMD (which I personally think is a strong school), there are lots of great colleges out there.

I suspect you are one of the younger interviews. Some are a little more seasoned and see the big picture. NOT a checklist. You know when you are looking at a URM... there is a checklist... born in the country/born out, 1st generation vs 10th generation, what country, what race, etc. NOT a checklist...okay. You no longer have any credibility.

Sell the fear... "must not be able to handle it" and "won't go to a top school"... this is the fear that you sell to parents, so they can pay all that money into the SAT and AP industry. My child double majored at a top 25 school, in two sciences... and took Algebra freshman year. GASP! Why because I knew it didn't matter. He took 1 AP freshman year, 1 sophomore, 2 junior and 1 senior year.

Let go of the idea that kids can't be successful (or get in) unless they take 4APs a year. You are probably missing some very successful students with your very limited thinking. I would have been very happy if he had gone to Maryland, that was the message I always sent to him, not .... oh pity you won't even get into MD.

Hopefully your child got some reading comprehension skills from his/her father, I clearly said the interview is NOT a checklist and that the point of the interview is for students to explain why they did/or did not take 4 APS.

But your post again shows that you are pushing your child in too many directions. Entering college with two confirmed double majors, not a solid plan.

I hope your do a lot of growing up before you have children. You deal with too many helicopter parents.. Why would I have anything to do with what college or major he chose. He liked computer science and finance. So what. Have you ever thought kids should learn the stuff they enjoy instead it always being an endgame.

I am fully aware of the checklist. You just won't admit it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole discussion of W schools and APs got started because OP was asking for what many of us view as the impossible -- high expectations but no stress.

I'm not trying to convince her to move to a W cluster -- I've been saying as many ways as I can that that is not right for everyone. But I also think it is folly to believe that there can be high expectations in any facet of life without the accompanying stress. The question is how much and what kind of stress can you handle.

Some folks on this thread have been very emphatic that they think their kids are suffering from too much academic stress. I'm sure that's true. Some of us think it's going fine for our kids. People draw that line in different places. But any time you are pushed or challenged, it is going to feel stressful. And when it gets to be too much, parents can and should draw the line to protect their kids.

I agree. OP said no in the subject but clarified in her opening question that she really meant too much not none at all... " Is there a way to achieve excellence without too much homework/stress? Looking for a school cluster is balanced. "

I agree that it is a parents job to draw the line. Some can in any setting, other prefer to be with like minded kids/families when going through the HS years. They prefer being in an atmosphere of work hard and keep a healthy amount of stress in your life and learn how to deal with healthy stress.... and find a few things that you love to do (besides drinking and drugs).

Other believe that if you are not in the best and hardest classes their child is a failure and they would prefer not be be around a lot of that. Also the whole looking down on kids that go to non-flagship state schools is more prevalent is wealthy schools. You may want more for your child ... okay, but modeling to them that it is okay to talk down to or be rude to kids that don't have those desires or abilities is toxic. Even the interviewer talked with disdain about UMD, geez imagine what he says about Towson or UMBC.

Here is a little essay that was shared with counselors at school to help them understand what kids are deal with.

https://www.theodysseyonline.com/stop-putting-down-my-university

This is "the interviewer" - I (wrongly) thought that I was pretty clear that I think UMD is a strong school. I actually think that within the next 5-10 years it will be considered one of the great state universities (the same as the flagships in CA, TX, MI, UNC, etc). The PP (the sports person) was complaining that students take 4 APS a year and still go to their state school, I was arguing that neither students nor parents should be disappointed with that if the school is UMD.

I hope you are right! DC is at a magnet high school and so far he is happy to have UMD be the college he is most likely to attend (for financial reasons). I hope he will continue to feel this way when many of his classmates end up at higher ranked schools.
May I ask why you think it will have a higher reputation within 5-10 years?

Plank is pouring money into the school.

Kids are turning down Ivy schools to get into their honors program and go for free. They joined the big 10. Many successful people besides Plank went there and donate money like the Google guy and oh her very successful engineers.

But UMD has always been a strong school you don't have to wait 5-10 years., it has been strong for decades. I would not describe it as a "school your child up has to go to" like the "interviewer did".

Kids are very disappointed to go to state schools, I agree they should not be. I think all the schools... Towson, UMbC, Saliabury are great. But you will see the magnet kids talk down about those schools. It is not good and I hope you discourage that type of talk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^I think she said he played lacrosse. No way in hell he got into top 25 w/ 5 aps w/o a hook.

+1

Correct... You need to have many APs and/or a hook to get accepted. My son had lacrosse.

The lie sold is that your child needs all those AP classes to succeed at a top 25 school. My son did well despite his lack of APs and a algebra freshman year. He was very successful. Lacrosse players despite their bad press have one of the highest GPAs of all the student athlete. APs and accelerated math does not tell "the interviewer" who is the best candidate, it's just a formula for lazy analysis.

You wrote... I am a little freaked out... So you really would love for your child to take 5 APs if it could get him into a top school, but since it won't, he will take more... Not out of desire for the subject or he thrives in that environment but out of fear that he won't get in... Correct?

If you answer yes, are in the majority.

See that is the problem... By the way, he will go to college, he will be successful and he will be successful at life.... Even if he does not go to a top 25 college.

I have other children that went to lower ranked schools and they are very successful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^I think she said he played lacrosse. No way in hell he got into top 25 w/ 5 aps w/o a hook.

+1

Correct... You need to have many APs and/or a hook to get accepted. My son had lacrosse.

The lie sold is that your child needs all those AP classes to succeed at a top 25 school. My son did well despite his lack of APs and a algebra freshman year. He was very successful. Lacrosse players despite their bad press have one of the highest GPAs of all the student athlete. APs and accelerated math does not tell "the interviewer" who is the best candidate, it's just a formula for lazy analysis.

You wrote... I am a little freaked out... So you really would love for your child to take 5 APs if it could get him into a top school, but since it won't, he will take more... Not out of desire for the subject or he thrives in that environment but out of fear that he won't get in... Correct?

If you answer yes, are in the majority.

See that is the problem... By the way, he will go to college, he will be successful and he will be successful at life.... Even if he does not go to a top 25 college.

I have other children that went to lower ranked schools and they are very successful.

NP - I don't think you know what you are talking about. You are preaching here based on one data point - your son who had a hook. For avg kids with no hooks (white and Asian kids) the game is totally different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure if you can have both, Wootton cluster here, a lot of academic bullying by peers and push to take AP classes. Furthermore, there appears to be a tendency to grade the students harder in the W schools. However, the education my child is getting is great. What they are learning at Wootton is almost advanced as the UMD 25 years ago. Academic pressure also seems to prevent the students from dating etc... Good in my opinion. I hope the stress is not too terrible, but I think they will be prepared for college and have it easier later in life. On the negative side they are so academic that they do not know much about the world. I guess there is no perfect school.

Wow it's very hard for me to imagine being bullied in high school for not being smart *enough*. And I went to very good schools. But this was 30 years ago, and times appear to have changed.

Times haven't changed. Whoever posted that is full of crap. Kids could care less about who is "smart enough". The only exception might be the nerdy ones or Asian.

[Anonymous]

guys, if you ever came across a truly Gifted & Talented kid you'd realize (a) they do not have nor need tutors or formal test prep classes, just give them a workbook for one weekend, (b) their parents didn't push them to sit on their butt and study 24/7, (c) they pick things up so fast and are so efficient they aren't studying 24/7.

just be well-rounded and pick a couple things you like by age 15, 20 or 25 and do it well.