High expectation and no stress-- which high school in mcps is best ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think sometimes it is hard for parents whose kids struggle with academics to understand that it isn't the same for all kids. Just like your son/daughter can play multiple varsity sports as a sophomore with no problem, other people's sons and daughters can handle multiple APs with little stress. They don't necessarily need to spend hours on homework, because they "get it", just like some kids in sports don't need private coaching/expensive summer camps/etc because they have that natural ability. Every child has their strengths and interests --- they might not be yours.

The post about how colleges disregard kids who take 4+ APs a years is ridiculous. The strongest schools take the kids that take the most challenging classes. Admission stats show this. Even anecdotally, I do interviewing for both a large top 25 state school (not UVA) and an ivy, this is one of the main criteria (the out of state applicants are tying to get into the honors program or a merit scholarship). If I know that at the child's HS the typical for the top students is multiple APs, the applicant is not going to stand a chance unless they are the child of an alum or extraordinary in some other way (rarely sports - that's a different route and handled primarily by coaches).

This is why parents want schools they don't stress APs because colleges pit kids from the same school against each other to get into top schools. It creates a cut throat environment. If it is typical for kids to take 4Aps at your school, you better take 5 APs. You are fooling yourself if you think most kids are not stressed in this environment. You are also naive if you don't know that most those kids have tutors and take on toxic stress to get through it. There may be some that aren't but the majority are... And why do they to it because of people like you. Admissions officers have little time to really get to know a student, so they triage, and good kids are dumped... Just because you don't have a good way to measure success.

Now you have thousands of kids taking tons of APs ... Why... To impress you. And guess what many still don't .... They end up in the same college they would have ended up if they took just a few APs with a much better high school experience.

So really the problem is not just the counsellors at top HSs pushing kids into APs for ranking. YOU are more of a problem with our society today, preying off the fear of kids and parents that if they don't pour money into AP testing they won't appear to be "good enough" .... It pays the bills though, SAT prep, AP exams, .... so who cares if a few kids kill themselves in the process.

I'm guessing this is the PP. I'm not an Admissions Counselor, never said I was, I said I do interviews. The interview is the opposite of a checklist. It's a chance for a student to tell me their story.

Listen, reading through these threads it's clear that your child struggles academically and doesn't enjoy the challenge of understanding higher level material at this point in his/her life. Let your stressed out child play three sports and take regular track classes. He or she will have a happier high school experience and still have a happy and successful life. Let go of the idea that your child has to go to a top school or even UMD (which I personally think is a strong school), there are lots of great colleges out there.

I suspect you are one of the younger interviews. Some are a little more seasoned and see the big picture. NOT a checklist. You know when you are looking at a URM... there is a checklist... born in the country/born out, 1st generation vs 10th generation, what country, what race, etc. NOT a checklist...okay. You no longer have any credibility.

Sell the fear... "must not be able to handle it" and "won't go to a top school"... this is the fear that you sell to parents, so they can pay all that money into the SAT and AP industry. My child double majored at a top 25 school, in two sciences... and took Algebra freshman year. GASP! Why because I knew it didn't matter. He took 1 AP freshman year, 1 sophomore, 2 junior and 1 senior year.

Let go of the idea that kids can't be successful (or get in) unless they take 4APs a year. You are probably missing some very successful students with your very limited thinking. I would have been very happy if he had gone to Maryland, that was the message I always sent to him, not .... oh pity you won't even get into MD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does no one even consider the idea that kids take APs because they are genuinely interested in the subject and in a challenging class? There's this assumption floating around on this thread that academic high achievers are doing it solely to impress other people and gain admission to "top" colleges. Is that why the athletic kids are playing sports? Or maybe it's because they love the game and they love using their skills? Why doesn't anyone consider that as a motivation for the academically inclined?

Of course there are kids in APs only because they feel they have to be, but that's not everyone. And if your issue is "pressure" from the school or the community or whatever, well, have the courage of your convictions and resist if you really think it's not right for your kid.

Yes. That is why the OP wants to avoid W schools so when her child takes a few APs instead of a bunch that is part of the mission of the school not an outlier.

I will say that I see some kids that love sports, but many are being pushed too hard by their parents and they just are not that good. It is pathetic. It is very unhealthy for kids. With sports there are cuts, so kids that don't belong in a AP sport don't actually end up in an AP sport.

So, you think kids getting cut is healthy? I personally think sending the message "you are not good enough" is very damaging to kids psych. Kids should taught/learn how to overcome their shortcomings. Even the kids who find APs hard, can over come and do well if they try. They don't get automatic Ds/Fs even before the class starts.

Everybody eventually gets cut or is asked to go to a more appropriate league... do you play for the NFL? No, why because you can't.

You know that AP classes are full of kids who do not belong there, that is more damaging....or there are kids taking 4+APs out of fear not desire. That is also damaging. Few kids are allowed to play 2 varsity sports in 1 season, because there is not enough time and there are conflicts. The same idea should be applied to APS classes, okay if you want to take 2 but 3, 4, 5 every year. A child should have to show both ability and desire.... and ability does not mean sleeping 4-5 hours a night for 4 years straight.

[Anonymous]

There was an opinion piece I read a few days ago by a college student who dubbed the American college application process as the "Hunger Games" - cut throat, kill or be killed kind of environment. This student chose to go to a UK university (cheaper, graduate in 3 yrs). I'm thinking of suggesting this to my kids as they also have dual UK citizenship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does no one even consider the idea that kids take APs because they are genuinely interested in the subject and in a challenging class? There's this assumption floating around on this thread that academic high achievers are doing it solely to impress other people and gain admission to "top" colleges. Is that why the athletic kids are playing sports? Or maybe it's because they love the game and they love using their skills? Why doesn't anyone consider that as a motivation for the academically inclined?

Of course there are kids in APs only because they feel they have to be, but that's not everyone. And if your issue is "pressure" from the school or the community or whatever, well, have the courage of your convictions and resist if you really think it's not right for your kid.

Yes. That is why the OP wants to avoid W schools so when her child takes a few APs instead of a bunch that is part of the mission of the school not an outlier.

I will say that I see some kids that love sports, but many are being pushed too hard by their parents and they just are not that good. It is pathetic. It is very unhealthy for kids. With sports there are cuts, so kids that don't belong in a AP sport don't actually end up in an AP sport.

So the question then, is whether you are choosing a high school cluster based on "big fish small pond," or "small fish big pond." Different people will come to different conclusions about that. For some families, they are willing to take the "risk" of being a small fish in a big pond because the opportunities for an outstanding high school education are more important to them than the risk that their kid might not "stand out" enough.

For us the "risk" of being at a W school is more than outweighed by the rewards. Not everyone's choice.

I agree. But the OP said she does not want a W school, so why are people trying to convince her to send her children to one?

Enjoy your W school and hopefully you won't regret it. Best of Luck.

[Anonymous]

This whole discussion of W schools and APs got started because OP was asking for what many of us view as the impossible -- high expectations but no stress.

I'm not trying to convince her to move to a W cluster -- I've been saying as many ways as I can that that is not right for everyone. But I also think it is folly to believe that there can be high expectations in any facet of life without the accompanying stress. The question is how much and what kind of stress can you handle.

Some folks on this thread have been very emphatic that they think their kids are suffering from too much academic stress. I'm sure that's true. Some of us think it's going fine for our kids. People draw that line in different places. But any time you are pushed or challenged, it is going to feel stressful. And when it gets to be too much, parents can and should draw the line to protect their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does no one even consider the idea that kids take APs because they are genuinely interested in the subject and in a challenging class? There's this assumption floating around on this thread that academic high achievers are doing it solely to impress other people and gain admission to "top" colleges. Is that why the athletic kids are playing sports? Or maybe it's because they love the game and they love using their skills? Why doesn't anyone consider that as a motivation for the academically inclined?

Of course there are kids in APs only because they feel they have to be, but that's not everyone. And if your issue is "pressure" from the school or the community or whatever, well, have the courage of your convictions and resist if you really think it's not right for your kid.

Yes. That is why the OP wants to avoid W schools so when her child takes a few APs instead of a bunch that is part of the mission of the school not an outlier.

I will say that I see some kids that love sports, but many are being pushed too hard by their parents and they just are not that good. It is pathetic. It is very unhealthy for kids. With sports there are cuts, so kids that don't belong in a AP sport don't actually end up in an AP sport.

So the question then, is whether you are choosing a high school cluster based on "big fish small pond," or "small fish big pond." Different people will come to different conclusions about that. For some families, they are willing to take the "risk" of being a small fish in a big pond because the opportunities for an outstanding high school education are more important to them than the risk that their kid might not "stand out" enough.

For us the "risk" of being at a W school is more than outweighed by the rewards. Not everyone's choice.

I agree. But the OP said she does not want a W school, so why are people trying to convince her to send her children to one?

Enjoy your W school and hopefully you won't regret it. Best of Luck.

No one is. No one cares what OP does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I agree. But the OP said she does not want a W school, so why are people trying to convince her to send her children to one?

Enjoy your W school and hopefully you won't regret it. Best of Luck.

No one is. No one cares what OP does.

But people seem quite defensive about either decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I agree. But the OP said she does not want a W school, so why are people trying to convince her to send her children to one?

Enjoy your W school and hopefully you won't regret it. Best of Luck.

No one is. No one cares what OP does.

But people seem quite defensive about either decision.

True, but that's understandable. Because we all want to believe our own decision was/is the "right" decision. People have hard time accepting two right answers - they feel only one can be right. DCUM, particularly posts like this, is full of "I'm right, you are wrong" posts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No one is. No one cares what OP does.

If you don't care, don't respond. OP is asking for advice, if you don't care (or don't have anything more productive to do than bashing other people's experiences and thoughtful suggestions), then don't reply. Simple as that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No one is. No one cares what OP does.

If you don't care, don't respond. OP is asking for advice, if you don't care (or don't have anything more productive to do than bashing other people's experiences and thoughtful suggestions), then don't reply. Simple as that.

OP hasn't responded since page 1 or so. I think she is gone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This whole discussion of W schools and APs got started because OP was asking for what many of us view as the impossible -- high expectations but no stress.

I'm not trying to convince her to move to a W cluster -- I've been saying as many ways as I can that that is not right for everyone. But I also think it is folly to believe that there can be high expectations in any facet of life without the accompanying stress. The question is how much and what kind of stress can you handle.

Some folks on this thread have been very emphatic that they think their kids are suffering from too much academic stress. I'm sure that's true. Some of us think it's going fine for our kids. People draw that line in different places. But any time you are pushed or challenged, it is going to feel stressful. And when it gets to be too much, parents can and should draw the line to protect their kids.

I agree. OP said no in the subject but clarified in her opening question that she really meant too much not none at all... " Is there a way to achieve excellence without too much homework/stress? Looking for a school cluster is balanced. "

I agree that it is a parents job to draw the line. Some can in any setting, other prefer to be with like minded kids/families when going through the HS years. They prefer being in an atmosphere of work hard and keep a healthy amount of stress in your life and learn how to deal with healthy stress.... and find a few things that you love to do (besides drinking and drugs).

Other believe that if you are not in the best and hardest classes their child is a failure and they would prefer not be be around a lot of that. Also the whole looking down on kids that go to non-flagship state schools is more prevalent is wealthy schools. You may want more for your child ... okay, but modeling to them that it is okay to talk down to or be rude to kids that don't have those desires or abilities is toxic. Even the interviewer talked with disdain about UMD, geez imagine what he says about Towson or UMBC.

Here is a little essay that was shared with counselors at school to help them understand what kids are deal with.

https://www.theodysseyonline.com/stop-putting-down-my-university

[Anonymous]

OP, we chose RM cluster for the same reason. I figure if the kids turn out to be "high achieving" and want rigor, they can be in the IB program. If they turn out to be "average" kids (gasp), they can choose to the normal classes. Or, they can do both: take some average classes and some IB/AP classes. They can mix it up. The school is large and diverse, and I figure that my kids will be able to find others in such a large school that are like them. GL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think sometimes it is hard for parents whose kids struggle with academics to understand that it isn't the same for all kids. Just like your son/daughter can play multiple varsity sports as a sophomore with no problem, other people's sons and daughters can handle multiple APs with little stress. They don't necessarily need to spend hours on homework, because they "get it", just like some kids in sports don't need private coaching/expensive summer camps/etc because they have that natural ability. Every child has their strengths and interests --- they might not be yours.

The post about how colleges disregard kids who take 4+ APs a years is ridiculous. The strongest schools take the kids that take the most challenging classes. Admission stats show this. Even anecdotally, I do interviewing for both a large top 25 state school (not UVA) and an ivy, this is one of the main criteria (the out of state applicants are tying to get into the honors program or a merit scholarship). If I know that at the child's HS the typical for the top students is multiple APs, the applicant is not going to stand a chance unless they are the child of an alum or extraordinary in some other way (rarely sports - that's a different route and handled primarily by coaches).

This is why parents want schools they don't stress APs because colleges pit kids from the same school against each other to get into top schools. It creates a cut throat environment. If it is typical for kids to take 4Aps at your school, you better take 5 APs. You are fooling yourself if you think most kids are not stressed in this environment. You are also naive if you don't know that most those kids have tutors and take on toxic stress to get through it. There may be some that aren't but the majority are... And why do they to it because of people like you. Admissions officers have little time to really get to know a student, so they triage, and good kids are dumped... Just because you don't have a good way to measure success.

Now you have thousands of kids taking tons of APs ... Why... To impress you. And guess what many still don't .... They end up in the same college they would have ended up if they took just a few APs with a much better high school experience.

So really the problem is not just the counsellors at top HSs pushing kids into APs for ranking. YOU are more of a problem with our society today, preying off the fear of kids and parents that if they don't pour money into AP testing they won't appear to be "good enough" .... It pays the bills though, SAT prep, AP exams, .... so who cares if a few kids kill themselves in the process.

I'm guessing this is the PP. I'm not an Admissions Counselor, never said I was, I said I do interviews. The interview is the opposite of a checklist. It's a chance for a student to tell me their story.

Listen, reading through these threads it's clear that your child struggles academically and doesn't enjoy the challenge of understanding higher level material at this point in his/her life. Let your stressed out child play three sports and take regular track classes. He or she will have a happier high school experience and still have a happy and successful life. Let go of the idea that your child has to go to a top school or even UMD (which I personally think is a strong school), there are lots of great colleges out there.

I suspect you are one of the younger interviews. Some are a little more seasoned and see the big picture. NOT a checklist. You know when you are looking at a URM... there is a checklist... born in the country/born out, 1st generation vs 10th generation, what country, what race, etc. NOT a checklist...okay. You no longer have any credibility.

Sell the fear... "must not be able to handle it" and "won't go to a top school"... this is the fear that you sell to parents, so they can pay all that money into the SAT and AP industry. My child double majored at a top 25 school, in two sciences... and took Algebra freshman year. GASP! Why because I knew it didn't matter. He took 1 AP freshman year, 1 sophomore, 2 junior and 1 senior year.

Let go of the idea that kids can't be successful (or get in) unless they take 4APs a year. You are probably missing some very successful students with your very limited thinking. I would have been very happy if he had gone to Maryland, that was the message I always sent to him, not .... oh pity you won't even get into MD.

This is reassuring. So your child got into a top school and handled a challenging field of study despite taking just (!) 5 AP classes in high school and taking Algebra 1 in 9th grade. This sounds sane. I am wondering whether there was something else about your child that would have made his/her college so interested. Did he get a really high SAT score, was he an athlete? Was there another hook? So when you say "big picture" do you mean that there was something else about your child that impressed the college. Don't get me wrong, I think that 5 AP classes is awesome but the conventional wisdom is that colleges compare your child to other children in the same school so if my child takes 5 APs when all the other high performing kids are taking 10 APs this would be held against my child. I keep hearing that colleges want students to take on the most challenging path open to them in high school. In other words, would your child's sensible AP load be a successful strategy for any child? My kid is in a magnet HS and I am a little freaked out by how high the bar is to get the label of "high achiever".

[Anonymous]

^I think she said he played lacrosse. No way in hell he got into top 25 w/ 5 aps w/o a hook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^I think she said he played lacrosse. No way in hell he got into top 25 w/ 5 aps w/o a hook.

+1