Another choice school in N Arlington?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10:18 - you missed my point. I'm saying that if you populated a school solely with the same exact population of kids in the under-performing schools in Arlington, that school would be similarly under-performing. Those kids would come to the new school with the same challenges they brought to their old school. The scores at Jamestown and Discovery and others are higher than the schools with high FARMS and ESL because those kids are coming to school every day with fewer outside challenges. ATS has a mix of those kids - some with outside challenges, some without.

I'm saying that it's generally not the underprivileged kids' parents complaining on this forum. It's the parents who bought into Carlin Springs or Randolph or Barcroft hoping they could choice into ATS or Campbell or ASFS and then got upset because they couldn't.

Nobody is forcing anyone to live in Arlington. I decided against living in DC because I couldn't afford a house or rowhouse in a good school district and didn't want to have to deal with charter lotteries. I moved from Fairfax because the commute was too long. People make decisions like this every day - to live in Arlington or Fairfax or Alexandria or Falls Church (or MD or DC.) The school decision should absolutely factor into where you buy. Why get mad when someone makes it a big factor?

I didn't miss your point but you are wrong. Getting into aps and vpi is a time consuming process that might be a challenge if English is not your first language or if you work very long hours and don't SAH.

If you populate ATS with VPI and those who apply but are not from N. ARL schools, I guarantee that scores will stay up. Why? Great teachers, great environment, expectation that they'd do it and, stay with me, their parents will demand it. Just because a parent needs free lunch for the kid and affordable housing does not mean they will not push them for higher scores.

So the parents of VPI and South Arlington students cannot demand this at any other school except ATS?

No, I think every child in the country should be getting this things and I think that every parent should demand them. But I think some people in this discussion are trying to have it both ways. (And forgive me if I'm referring to completely different posters.) Some people claim that there's nothing special about ATS and that the only reason people want to go there is the cachet of having won a lottery so it can "make them feel special." Isn't it possible that they are doing something important there in terms of their style, hiring, administration, approach, etc. that is leading to their success? If anything, wouldn't it be best to figure out how their approach could be translated to other schools? There is always a lot of criticism of ATS on this board and a lot of misinformation about "stifling kids' creativity" and "too much discipline" but clearly something there is working. Yes, they have a very involved community of parents and I think that's huge factor, but it's not the only one.

I have to say I'm also confused by the argument about moving it somewhere else. With the county schools so overcrowded, do you seriously think there is anywhere they could put it where someone in that neighborhood wouldn't complain that it should be used as a neighborhood school?

[Anonymous]

Could it possibly be that a more traditional school is actually better for kids in early elementary?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Call me someone "trying to be a liberal" but we also like the ethnic and socioeconomic diversity. We are minority and so are our kids. We toured the neighborhood school and quickly realized that our kids would be almost the only people who look like them in their classrooms. We also heard nightmarish stories from our neighbors about competition starting early for certain types of clothes, vacations, etc at the neighborhood school. We liked the atmosphere at ATS better.

So you claim to "like" ethnic and socioeconomic diversity, and yet you apparently moved into one of the most wealthy and most white neighbors in North Arlington. And then you were shocked to find out that there weren't many minorities at your local elementary school? Sorry, that doesn't entitle anyone from North Arlington to have access to an alternative choice program (and I am saying that as a North Arlington parent).

She could have solved it by moving into Key/ASF boundary. ASF has the same Socio/racial diversity and you can buy into the zone in N Arl.

+100

Higher FARMs than ATS. Much racial diversity. Some neighborhood feeders are very white; others hugely diverse.

[Anonymous]

I'm am very suspicious of the projected APS seat deficit numbers. Especially in south Arlington. The county wants to hold fast to an antiquated trend of the most students being produced from Sfh's. The recent trends are from multi family dwellings, and I don't think that's an outlier. They have also been very loud and proud about trying to encourage 3-4 bedroom units. They supposedly want families...
This entire situation is infuriating. They had these projections 10 years ago. They just decided to ignore them.
Past county board members have had the audacity to say things like, "'well, we'll just have to stay crowded a little longer " when they couldn't be bothered to make a decision and actually do their jobs. I swear if I hear one of them say " victims of our own success " one. More. Time.
No. We're not. We're the beneficiaries of a great location. Quit smugly congratulating yourselves over what? Realizing we needed an underground subway? Well, no shit...
So north Arlington is busting at the seams and taking up all of the air in the room. We can't even have a real conversation about the completely fucked up demographics, because north Arlington is a total shit show.
Meanwhile, " liberal" and " progressive" Arlington is completely dropping the ball with the schools in the south.
Middle class south Arlington families have got to start sending their kids to the neighborhood schools, especially the "bad"'ones. It should be a priority of the SB and CB to help that along. They've done nothing but make it worse. 10-20 % of farms kids need to be choicing out of those schools. Get them out and put immersion into the randolf, Barcroft, and Carlin Springs. Knock on doors in nauck or wherever and talk to pre k parents about the local school. Allay their fears. It's what Michelle Rhee did. Their kids get immersion. The immigrant kids get better ( more reflective ) test scores - neighborhood schools south of 50 start getting better ratings. More middle class families stay, demographics improve and you start to see real diversity in those schools.



WHERE IS A SCHOOL BOARD CANDIDATE THAT WILL EVEN TALK ABOUT THIS?

[Anonymous]

Perhaps I'm beating a dead horse here (although I am an NP), but why shouldn't South Arlington parents get to complain about their weaker (vis a vis North Arlington) schools just because they chose to buy south of Route 50 in order to make their house budget stretch further? I absolutely grant you that they made a trade off when buying their home (and schools would inevitably have been part of the equation), so they should not be surprised about the school disparity. But once they have bought homes in South Arlington, they have every right to make a fuss about the schools and advocate in any way they can to improve the quality of the schools. This is precisely how areas gentrify. You should always understand the status quo, but you don't have to accept it. You can work to change it.

On another note, I do agree with PPs who are frustrated with the School Board and County Board members who don't seem willing to engage in a thoughtful - and granted, a difficult - discussion about the future of the whole County's schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps I'm beating a dead horse here (although I am an NP), but why shouldn't South Arlington parents get to complain about their weaker (vis a vis North Arlington) schools just because they chose to buy south of Route 50 in order to make their house budget stretch further? I absolutely grant you that they made a trade off when buying their home (and schools would inevitably have been part of the equation), so they should not be surprised about the school disparity. But once they have bought homes in South Arlington, they have every right to make a fuss about the schools and advocate in any way they can to improve the quality of the schools. This is precisely how areas gentrify. You should always understand the status quo, but you don't have to accept it. You can work to change it.

On another note, I do agree with PPs who are frustrated with the School Board and County Board members who don't seem willing to engage in a thoughtful - and granted, a difficult - discussion about the future of the whole County's schools.

Sincerely-- did I miss something? Where did anyone say that parents in S. Arlington don't get to complain about their school? Apologies if I missed it in this long thread. I think the only thing close to that comment is the objection to the idea that parents in N. Arlington either shouldn't be allowed to apply for a lottery school or should be "deeply ashamed" for having done so. I don't think anyone thinks that S. Arlington should just suck up whatever happens at their schools. A PP did point out, in response to a mocking retort doubting his/her desire for diversity that we all chose our homes' location and there are certain things we prioritized in doing so. That's not the same as saying that people in S. Arlington can't or shouldn't agitate for county attention, for high performing teachers and administrators, for involved parents, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10:16,
your post makes me want to avoid all white ATS parents forever in case I come across you and your racism.

Do you really think your white kids pull up the brown kids scores? No. They VPI parents and others who get their kids into ATS jumped through the same hoops you did. Furthermore, they are likely over educated for the jobs they have here if they are migrants.

I now feel a little ill.

Speaking as a white person who bought a house in south Arlington, I'm going to throw up if one more white person in north Arlington tells me that I did so because I wanted a nicer house than I could afford in north Arlington. I can't believe people who have paid a real estate premium of hundreds of thousands of dollars to ensure that they are districted for a neighborhood school that draws exclusively from an extremely affluent demographic have the nerve to criticize anyone else.

Well, as a white person in North Arlington, I guess we have nausea in common. If one more South Arlington person tells me that I paid a premium to buy my house so I "could be districted for a neighborhood school that draws exclusively from an extremely affluent demographic" I will be sick. You have no idea who I am, why I chose my house, what it cost, what my income is, or anything else about me for that matter. If I state that I wanted my kids to go to ATS in part for the diversity, and to avoid some of the "extremely affluent" kids, how does that square with your negative, bigoted assumptions about me or my priorities for my kids?

I'm a white South Arlingtonian. If another white North Arlingtonian tells me that I live in S. Arlington because I can't afford to live in N. Arlington I am going to be sick. You don't know what our HHI is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm am very suspicious of the projected APS seat deficit numbers. Especially in south Arlington. The county wants to hold fast to an antiquated trend of the most students being produced from Sfh's. The recent trends are from multi family dwellings, and I don't think that's an outlier. They have also been very loud and proud about trying to encourage 3-4 bedroom units. They supposedly want families...
This entire situation is infuriating. They had these projections 10 years ago. They just decided to ignore them.
Past county board members have had the audacity to say things like, "'well, we'll just have to stay crowded a little longer " when they couldn't be bothered to make a decision and actually do their jobs. I swear if I hear one of them say " victims of our own success " one. More. Time.
No. We're not. We're the beneficiaries of a great location. Quit smugly congratulating yourselves over what? Realizing we needed an underground subway? Well, no shit...
So north Arlington is busting at the seams and taking up all of the air in the room. We can't even have a real conversation about the completely fucked up demographics, because north Arlington is a total shit show.
Meanwhile, " liberal" and " progressive" Arlington is completely dropping the ball with the schools in the south.
Middle class south Arlington families have got to start sending their kids to the neighborhood schools, especially the "bad"'ones. It should be a priority of the SB and CB to help that along. They've done nothing but make it worse. 10-20 % of farms kids need to be choicing out of those schools. Get them out and put immersion into the randolf, Barcroft, and Carlin Springs. Knock on doors in nauck or wherever and talk to pre k parents about the local school. Allay their fears. It's what Michelle Rhee did. Their kids get immersion. The immigrant kids get better ( more reflective ) test scores - neighborhood schools south of 50 start getting better ratings. More middle class families stay, demographics improve and you start to see real diversity in those schools.



WHERE IS A SCHOOL BOARD CANDIDATE THAT WILL EVEN TALK ABOUT THIS?

But middle class families in south Arlington shouldn't be the ones with responsibility for helping improve the schools. I live in south Arlington and it is frustrating to have a very small number of involved parents at our school a) stuck with all the work and b) still feel like it's not enough, yet see that PTAs in north Arlington have budgets 5x the size of ours and the support to pull off all kinds of events (tuckahoe garden tour, anyone?) And its unreasonable to ask someone to give up the opportunity to go to a diverse choice program to stick with a neighborhood school that is 70 or 80 percent Spanish speaking and poverty--everyone in that school is entitled to try and choice out.

Why can't the solution be to redraw boundaries or make more schools choice schools do there is a more even mix of families in each school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Civil War? So , let's make it a fully integrated choice school for the entire county.

Except it is basically on the border of McLean--I live in south Arlington and my kids did a summer camp there and it was a real PITA to get back and forth. Places like ATS and H-B are inconvenient but not that hard to get to. Madison is a real schlep from the quarter of the county south of Columbia Pike.

Not saying it shouldn't be used for something, but a countywide choice school is not the answer--no moving ATS or Montessori there, especially if one of the goals of choice is to increase diversity.

There just isn't space in the middle of the county. Unless the county starts tearing out park land to build schools or invoking eminent domain there just aren't any/many options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10:16,
your post makes me want to avoid all white ATS parents forever in case I come across you and your racism.

Do you really think your white kids pull up the brown kids scores? No. They VPI parents and others who get their kids into ATS jumped through the same hoops you did. Furthermore, they are likely over educated for the jobs they have here if they are migrants.

I now feel a little ill.

Speaking as a white person who bought a house in south Arlington, I'm going to throw up if one more white person in north Arlington tells me that I did so because I wanted a nicer house than I could afford in north Arlington. I can't believe people who have paid a real estate premium of hundreds of thousands of dollars to ensure that they are districted for a neighborhood school that draws exclusively from an extremely affluent demographic have the nerve to criticize anyone else.

Well, as a white person in North Arlington, I guess we have nausea in common. If one more South Arlington person tells me that I paid a premium to buy my house so I "could be districted for a neighborhood school that draws exclusively from an extremely affluent demographic" I will be sick. You have no idea who I am, why I chose my house, what it cost, what my income is, or anything else about me for that matter. If I state that I wanted my kids to go to ATS in part for the diversity, and to avoid some of the "extremely affluent" kids, how does that square with your negative, bigoted assumptions about me or my priorities for my kids?

I'm a white South Arlingtonian. If another white North Arlingtonian tells me that I live in S. Arlington because I can't afford to live in N. Arlington I am going to be sick. You don't know what our HHI is.

Right? It strains the bounds of credulity for a lot of folks, but that says more about them than it does about me.

[Anonymous]

According to the most recent stats on the APS website, the top 5 schools feeding into ATS are Glebe (59 kids); Ashlawn (56 kids); Abington (41 kids); McKinley (38 kids); and Tuckahoe (33 kids)-- that is 47% of the student body. The bottom 5 schools feeding into ATS are Hoffman (13 kids); Long Branch (12 kids); Key (12 kids); Randolph (11 kids); and Drew (10 kids)-- that is 12% of the student body. Except for Abington, it is not attracting a meaningful number of kids from South Arlington. It should go back on the table as a neighborhood school along with Reed, and we should just figure out how to redraw the school boundaries to maximize diversity if that is what everyone wants. Or sink more money into choice immersion programs, which do offer something different than a typical neighborhood elementary program. The only major educational value of the ATS program over Ashlawn or McKinley is that the fact that it is a smaller school. And we can't afford that luxury in the current situation. It shouldn't be up to a lottery to decide whether your kid gets into a 480 student school vs. a 725 student school.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I basically agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wish there was a like button!

I wish there was a get me out of N Arlington button.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm am very suspicious of the projected APS seat deficit numbers. Especially in south Arlington. The county wants to hold fast to an antiquated trend of the most students being produced from Sfh's. The recent trends are from multi family dwellings, and I don't think that's an outlier. They have also been very loud and proud about trying to encourage 3-4 bedroom units. They supposedly want families...
This entire situation is infuriating. They had these projections 10 years ago. They just decided to ignore them.
Past county board members have had the audacity to say things like, "'well, we'll just have to stay crowded a little longer " when they couldn't be bothered to make a decision and actually do their jobs. I swear if I hear one of them say " victims of our own success " one. More. Time.
No. We're not. We're the beneficiaries of a great location. Quit smugly congratulating yourselves over what? Realizing we needed an underground subway? Well, no shit...
So north Arlington is busting at the seams and taking up all of the air in the room. We can't even have a real conversation about the completely fucked up demographics, because north Arlington is a total shit show.
Meanwhile, " liberal" and " progressive" Arlington is completely dropping the ball with the schools in the south.
Middle class south Arlington families have got to start sending their kids to the neighborhood schools, especially the "bad"'ones. It should be a priority of the SB and CB to help that along. They've done nothing but make it worse. 10-20 % of farms kids need to be choicing out of those schools. Get them out and put immersion into the randolf, Barcroft, and Carlin Springs. Knock on doors in nauck or wherever and talk to pre k parents about the local school. Allay their fears. It's what Michelle Rhee did. Their kids get immersion. The immigrant kids get better ( more reflective ) test scores - neighborhood schools south of 50 start getting better ratings. More middle class families stay, demographics improve and you start to see real diversity in those schools.



WHERE IS A SCHOOL BOARD CANDIDATE THAT WILL EVEN TALK ABOUT THIS?

But middle class families in south Arlington shouldn't be the ones with responsibility for helping improve the schools. I live in south Arlington and it is frustrating to have a very small number of involved parents at our school a) stuck with all the work and b) still feel like it's not enough, yet see that PTAs in north Arlington have budgets 5x the size of ours and the support to pull off all kinds of events (tuckahoe garden tour, anyone?) And its unreasonable to ask someone to give up the opportunity to go to a diverse choice program to stick with a neighborhood school that is 70 or 80 percent Spanish speaking and poverty--everyone in that school is entitled to try and choice out.

Why can't the solution be to redraw boundaries or make more schools choice schools do there is a more even mix of families in each school?

I hear ya' barkin' big dog. I really do...
That's my point about the SB getting involved. There seems to be a ridiculous amount of self congratulating in this county.
"Our schools are AMAZING! "
"you get an iPad and you get an iPad. EVERYBODY GETS AND IPAD!!!!"
We spend a fortune per student, and there is no acknowledgment between SB and County Board that housing policy is school policy. They will literally not go there. Just for funsies, we should all go to the next CB meeting and hog the slots. Each of us can give a little speech about that.

I know that redrawing boundaries sounds great. Maybe there is a way to do that on the south side to help redistribute a little better. The Henry people won't like that. They have a perfect, if tenuous balance. I suspect you add 5 % and that blue ribbon slips away...
And if we read through this thread- we see north Arlington is full. Like super full. If we want diverse schools, not overloaded with poverty - a percentage of farms kids need to be sent to Jamestown, tuckahoe...
I don't see how that happens when those schools don't have enough seats for the neighborhood kids.

It's total bullshit that middle class south Arlington families are expected to just toe the line. The county didn't plan accordingly and in fact the plans they did make totally screwed over schools that middle class families in south Arlington had bought into and worked hard to improve.

But If I put on my tin foil hat of for a second...

if those schools improve too much, property values go up along with them. It gets harder to keep affordable housing in those areas. Maybe it's just easier for the county to keep everything as is. That includes north Arlington. If they sit in their hands long enough, we'll all just move or pull our kids out. Problem solved.

[Anonymous]

I think the next choice school should be named Choice Elementary. It's mascot could be the Fighting Nerds.