Another choice school in N Arlington?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


I wrote the post about the different reasons a south Arlington child would benefit from being placed at ATS. I don't know about deep shame, but they should at least take a moment to recognize that their privledged child has taken the place of child who has little resources and options. Even if all Arlington schools are good, we know there is a difference. That's why there is such extreme over crowding in certain zipcodes. Your child will not suffer from being taught in a trailer, or switching elementary school buildings at some point. A disadvantaged child will suffer from not being exposed to a strong peer group. Plenty of research supports that. Certainly, not all of ATS can or should be poor. It needs a blend, but if an affluent parent is considering the program, it should really be about what their family could bring to that program, not the other way around.

Does this include affluent parents in south Arlington?

Someone needs to provide the "strong peer group." And that strong peer group is a necessary part of the equation, so who is taking what from whom?

Yes. One important reason for the existence of choice schools is (or should be) to draw more advantaged children to schools that would otherwise be filled with disadvantaged children. ATS fails to meet this standard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


I wrote the post about the different reasons a south Arlington child would benefit from being placed at ATS. I don't know about deep shame, but they should at least take a moment to recognize that their privledged child has taken the place of child who has little resources and options. Even if all Arlington schools are good, we know there is a difference. That's why there is such extreme over crowding in certain zipcodes. Your child will not suffer from being taught in a trailer, or switching elementary school buildings at some point. A disadvantaged child will suffer from not being exposed to a strong peer group. Plenty of research supports that. Certainly, not all of ATS can or should be poor. It needs a blend, but if an affluent parent is considering the program, it should really be about what their family could bring to that program, not the other way around.

Does this include affluent parents in south Arlington?

Someone needs to provide the "strong peer group." And that strong peer group is a necessary part of the equation, so who is taking what from whom?

Yes. One important reason for the existence of choice schools is (or should be) to draw more advantaged children to schools that would otherwise be filled with disadvantaged children. ATS fails to meet this standard.

FARMS rate across APS is 30%. Rate at the choice elementaries is as follows:

ATS 17%
ASFS 19% (you could argue this is not a choice school the way others are)
Claremont 37%
Drew 54% (although this includes 1/3 of school in graded program)
Key 43%

So the immersion programs and the choice program located in south Arlington seem to have more socioeconomic diversity (using FARMS as a proxy).

In terms of racial diversity, APS elementaries are about 50% white and ASFS and ATS are about the same, while Claremont, Key, and Drew are all a third or less white.

ATS is, however, much more diverse than the nearby overcrowded elementary schools: McKinley (75% white, 5% FARMS), Glebe (64% white, 15% FARMS), and Ashlawn (63% white, 17% FARMS).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


I wrote the post about the different reasons a south Arlington child would benefit from being placed at ATS. I don't know about deep shame, but they should at least take a moment to recognize that their privledged child has taken the place of child who has little resources and options. Even if all Arlington schools are good, we know there is a difference. That's why there is such extreme over crowding in certain zipcodes. Your child will not suffer from being taught in a trailer, or switching elementary school buildings at some point. A disadvantaged child will suffer from not being exposed to a strong peer group. Plenty of research supports that. Certainly, not all of ATS can or should be poor. It needs a blend, but if an affluent parent is considering the program, it should really be about what their family could bring to that program, not the other way around.

Does this include affluent parents in south Arlington?

Someone needs to provide the "strong peer group." And that strong peer group is a necessary part of the equation, so who is taking what from whom?

Yes. One important reason for the existence of choice schools is (or should be) to draw more advantaged children to schools that would otherwise be filled with disadvantaged children. ATS fails to meet this standard.

But ATS is moving in the right direction, and will have greater SES diversity and will be more diverse than nearly every neighborhood school in north Arlington when the second VPI classroom opens up. Can we at least recognize and applaud that? And it's clear to me, just from reading this thread, that diversity for diversity's sake is a worthy goal. So many misconceptions and prejudices abound, on every side. Want to know how we end that? By desegregating our schools and neighborhoods. Everyone has something of value to contribute to our community, but our kids won't ever come to understand that if they grow up and are educated in segregated environments. Want to foster mistrust and intolerance and bigotry? Then by all means, let's keep plodding down the same path we're on.

I say this as someone who is perfectly happy with our Title 1 school in south Arlington that is probably not considered a top performing school by most.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


I wrote the post about the different reasons a south Arlington child would benefit from being placed at ATS. I don't know about deep shame, but they should at least take a moment to recognize that their privledged child has taken the place of child who has little resources and options. Even if all Arlington schools are good, we know there is a difference. That's why there is such extreme over crowding in certain zipcodes. Your child will not suffer from being taught in a trailer, or switching elementary school buildings at some point. A disadvantaged child will suffer from not being exposed to a strong peer group. Plenty of research supports that. Certainly, not all of ATS can or should be poor. It needs a blend, but if an affluent parent is considering the program, it should really be about what their family could bring to that program, not the other way around.

Does this include affluent parents in south Arlington?

Someone needs to provide the "strong peer group." And that strong peer group is a necessary part of the equation, so who is taking what from whom?

Yes. One important reason for the existence of choice schools is (or should be) to draw more advantaged children to schools that would otherwise be filled with disadvantaged children. ATS fails to meet this standard.

But ATS is moving in the right direction, and will have greater SES diversity and will be more diverse than nearly every neighborhood school in north Arlington when the second VPI classroom opens up. Can we at least recognize and applaud that? And it's clear to me, just from reading this thread, that diversity for diversity's sake is a worthy goal. So many misconceptions and prejudices abound, on every side. Want to know how we end that? By desegregating our schools and neighborhoods. Everyone has something of value to contribute to our community, but our kids won't ever come to understand that if they grow up and are educated in segregated environments. Want to foster mistrust and intolerance and bigotry? Then by all means, let's keep plodding down the same path we're on.

I say this as someone who is perfectly happy with our Title 1 school in south Arlington that is probably not considered a top performing school by most.

The additional VPI classroom is a wonderful change. I would also like to add that Patrick Henry in south Arlington is Approx 50% Farms and they are doing fantastic. ATS does need to have a majority of upper middle class kids to be a success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10:16,
your post makes me want to avoid all white ATS parents forever in case I come across you and your racism.

Do you really think your white kids pull up the brown kids scores? No. They VPI parents and others who get their kids into ATS jumped through the same hoops you did. Furthermore, they are likely over educated for the jobs they have here if they are migrants.

I now feel a little ill.

Speaking as a white person who bought a house in south Arlington, I'm going to throw up if one more white person in north Arlington tells me that I did so because I wanted a nicer house than I could afford in north Arlington. I can't believe people who have paid a real estate premium of hundreds of thousands of dollars to ensure that they are districted for a neighborhood school that draws exclusively from an extremely affluent demographic have the nerve to criticize anyone else.

Well, as a white person in North Arlington, I guess we have nausea in common. If one more South Arlington person tells me that I paid a premium to buy my house so I "could be districted for a neighborhood school that draws exclusively from an extremely affluent demographic" I will be sick. You have no idea who I am, why I chose my house, what it cost, what my income is, or anything else about me for that matter. If I state that I wanted my kids to go to ATS in part for the diversity, and to avoid some of the "extremely affluent" kids, how does that square with your negative, bigoted assumptions about me or my priorities for my kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10:16,
your post makes me want to avoid all white ATS parents forever in case I come across you and your racism.

Do you really think your white kids pull up the brown kids scores? No. They VPI parents and others who get their kids into ATS jumped through the same hoops you did. Furthermore, they are likely over educated for the jobs they have here if they are migrants.

I now feel a little ill.

Speaking as a white person who bought a house in south Arlington, I'm going to throw up if one more white person in north Arlington tells me that I did so because I wanted a nicer house than I could afford in north Arlington. I can't believe people who have paid a real estate premium of hundreds of thousands of dollars to ensure that they are districted for a neighborhood school that draws exclusively from an extremely affluent demographic have the nerve to criticize anyone else.

Well, as a white person in North Arlington, I guess we have nausea in common. If one more South Arlington person tells me that I paid a premium to buy my house so I "could be districted for a neighborhood school that draws exclusively from an extremely affluent demographic" I will be sick. You have no idea who I am, why I chose my house, what it cost, what my income is, or anything else about me for that matter. If I state that I wanted my kids to go to ATS in part for the diversity, and to avoid some of the "extremely affluent" kids, how does that square with your negative, bigoted assumptions about me or my priorities for my kids?

I wasn't making assumptions, I and the person copied in my original post were replying to a post where someone said:

I bought in 2011 and looked at some seriously awesome houses in various South Arlington neighborhoods. But when I saw that a school was 70% Hispanic and 60% FARMS, I assumed those numbers would not decrease. Those houses were more affordable because the schools were considered lesser. So instead I bought a lesser house in a better school district, assuming I would use our home ES.

[Anonymous]

^^and that quote is flat-out racist, and sickening.

[Anonymous]

10:18 - you missed my point. I'm saying that if you populated a school solely with the same exact population of kids in the under-performing schools in Arlington, that school would be similarly under-performing. Those kids would come to the new school with the same challenges they brought to their old school. The scores at Jamestown and Discovery and others are higher than the schools with high FARMS and ESL because those kids are coming to school every day with fewer outside challenges. ATS has a mix of those kids - some with outside challenges, some without.

I'm saying that it's generally not the underprivileged kids' parents complaining on this forum. It's the parents who bought into Carlin Springs or Randolph or Barcroft hoping they could choice into ATS or Campbell or ASFS and then got upset because they couldn't.

Nobody is forcing anyone to live in Arlington. I decided against living in DC because I couldn't afford a house or rowhouse in a good school district and didn't want to have to deal with charter lotteries. I moved from Fairfax because the commute was too long. People make decisions like this every day - to live in Arlington or Fairfax or Alexandria or Falls Church (or MD or DC.) The school decision should absolutely factor into where you buy. Why get mad when someone makes it a big factor?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:10:18 - you missed my point. I'm saying that if you populated a school solely with the same exact population of kids in the under-performing schools in Arlington, that school would be similarly under-performing. Those kids would come to the new school with the same challenges they brought to their old school. The scores at Jamestown and Discovery and others are higher than the schools with high FARMS and ESL because those kids are coming to school every day with fewer outside challenges. ATS has a mix of those kids - some with outside challenges, some without.

I'm saying that it's generally not the underprivileged kids' parents complaining on this forum. It's the parents who bought into Carlin Springs or Randolph or Barcroft hoping they could choice into ATS or Campbell or ASFS and then got upset because they couldn't.

Nobody is forcing anyone to live in Arlington. I decided against living in DC because I couldn't afford a house or rowhouse in a good school district and didn't want to have to deal with charter lotteries. I moved from Fairfax because the commute was too long. People make decisions like this every day - to live in Arlington or Fairfax or Alexandria or Falls Church (or MD or DC.) The school decision should absolutely factor into where you buy. Why get mad when someone makes it a big factor?

I didn't miss your point but you are wrong. Getting into aps and vpi is a time consuming process that might be a challenge if English is not your first language or if you work very long hours and don't SAH.

If you populate ATS with VPI and those who apply but are not from N. ARL schools, I guarantee that scores will stay up. Why? Great teachers, great environment, expectation that they'd do it and, stay with me, their parents will demand it. Just because a parent needs free lunch for the kid and affordable housing does not mean they will not push them for higher scores.

[Anonymous]

Also can we all get on the same page, that if you can afford to buy a home in Arlington - you are affluent. Starter homes at 600k not for most people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I didn't miss your point but you are wrong. Getting into aps and vpi is a time consuming process that might be a challenge if English is not your first language or if you work very long hours and don't SAH.

If you populate ATS with VPI and those who apply but are not from N. ARL schools, I guarantee that scores will stay up. Why? Great teachers, great environment, expectation that they'd do it and, stay with me, their parents will demand it. Just because a parent needs free lunch for the kid and affordable housing does not mean they will not push them for higher scores.

I just applied to VPI at ATS and I am curious what you find time consuming about the process? I filled out a 2 page application, and dropped it off at the Syphax Center- but I could have dropped it at any school, or even mailed it in. The application was also in Spanish. http://www.apsva.us/site/Default.aspx?PageID=2183

[Anonymous]

13:21 - but again, you are saying that people from South Arlington are somehow more worthy of a choice school than people from North Arlington. A two-income family with a high HHI should be included but a one-income family with a not-large HHI should be excluded? Quite a few of the families I know from South Arlington with kids at ATS have plenty of money. What about minority families who live in North Arlington? Would their kids be allowed to apply if they didn't want their kids going to the 3% non-white school near their house?

Perhaps a better way to make sure kids get a leg-up is to continue to expand the VPI program. Make sure more underprivileged kids have a good preschool/pre-K and they can then build on that foundation in later years.

[Anonymous]

13:28 - good luck to you!! The program is terrific.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:10:18 - you missed my point. I'm saying that if you populated a school solely with the same exact population of kids in the under-performing schools in Arlington, that school would be similarly under-performing. Those kids would come to the new school with the same challenges they brought to their old school. The scores at Jamestown and Discovery and others are higher than the schools with high FARMS and ESL because those kids are coming to school every day with fewer outside challenges. ATS has a mix of those kids - some with outside challenges, some without.

I'm saying that it's generally not the underprivileged kids' parents complaining on this forum. It's the parents who bought into Carlin Springs or Randolph or Barcroft hoping they could choice into ATS or Campbell or ASFS and then got upset because they couldn't.

Nobody is forcing anyone to live in Arlington. I decided against living in DC because I couldn't afford a house or rowhouse in a good school district and didn't want to have to deal with charter lotteries. I moved from Fairfax because the commute was too long. People make decisions like this every day - to live in Arlington or Fairfax or Alexandria or Falls Church (or MD or DC.) The school decision should absolutely factor into where you buy. Why get mad when someone makes it a big factor?

Well, of course it's not them complaining on this forum. They're busy working, and don't have the time I have to dick around on a site like this. Just because I was lucky enough to be born into a more financially secure life doesn't mean I can't opine about someone else's circumstance, nor does it mean that I only care about my kid or my life. I just don't like to turn a blind eye to inequity when it's right in my damn face. YMMV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10:18 - you missed my point. I'm saying that if you populated a school solely with the same exact population of kids in the under-performing schools in Arlington, that school would be similarly under-performing. Those kids would come to the new school with the same challenges they brought to their old school. The scores at Jamestown and Discovery and others are higher than the schools with high FARMS and ESL because those kids are coming to school every day with fewer outside challenges. ATS has a mix of those kids - some with outside challenges, some without.

I'm saying that it's generally not the underprivileged kids' parents complaining on this forum. It's the parents who bought into Carlin Springs or Randolph or Barcroft hoping they could choice into ATS or Campbell or ASFS and then got upset because they couldn't.

Nobody is forcing anyone to live in Arlington. I decided against living in DC because I couldn't afford a house or rowhouse in a good school district and didn't want to have to deal with charter lotteries. I moved from Fairfax because the commute was too long. People make decisions like this every day - to live in Arlington or Fairfax or Alexandria or Falls Church (or MD or DC.) The school decision should absolutely factor into where you buy. Why get mad when someone makes it a big factor?

I didn't miss your point but you are wrong. Getting into aps and vpi is a time consuming process that might be a challenge if English is not your first language or if you work very long hours and don't SAH.

If you populate ATS with VPI and those who apply but are not from N. ARL schools, I guarantee that scores will stay up. Why? Great teachers, great environment, expectation that they'd do it and, stay with me, their parents will demand it. Just because a parent needs free lunch for the kid and affordable housing does not mean they will not push them for higher scores.

So the parents of VPI and South Arlington students cannot demand this at any other school except ATS?