"AAP is not a gifted program"

[Anonymous]

This entire artificial construct that "gifted" children's needs couldn't be met in a non-AAP classroom is ridiculous.

Hordes of illegals are not an artificial construct.

[Anonymous]

Most of the "outsized share" is for testing all students, not the actual implementation of AAP. We could be like Palo Alto and scrap testing because of lack of funds, but continue with AAP.

No we couldn't because of VA state mandates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than Montgomery County which spends considerably more per child than FCPS and doesn't teach advanced math in general ed, what other school systems are teaching advanced instruction better than FCPS?

What do you mean Montgomery County doesn't teach advanced math in General Ed? Any student has the option of starting advanced math at the Compacted 4/5 level without regard to entry into HGC (highly gifted center).

How is this better than Fairfax? FCPS allows for all children to access basic grade level standards 1 grade above starting in kindergarten. They also teach basic and extended math standards for the grade above starting in 3rd for AAP. The general ed program is already at the level of MCPS, but starts 4 years earlier.

They do? I didn't know that.

Our non center elementary school offers the exact same accelerated math as the center school starting in third grade. Abour 25% of the kids in my child's grade are taking the accelerated math. If they pass the Iowa and SOLs they will also be able to take algebra in 7th just like the center kids. Fcps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a child in AAP. And before anyone starts with the "you didn't have to enroll her if you think base schools are fine" our center is in our base school.

This entire artificial construct that "gifted" children's needs couldn't be met in a non-AAP classroom is ridiculous. If AAP didn't exist, I guarantee schools would adjust as need to be accommodate the more advanced learners. Thousands of really terrific school districts across the country do just that. It's a fact.

Of course removing top-performing kids from base schools will change the base schools. But it's ludicrous for parents not to recognize those schools would also change if AAP kids moved back.

The people who defend AAP are trying to protect their ability to overtly show their child is "gifted."

I think it can change the schools for the better.

At the base school, my kid and others got to rise to the top when the AAP kids left.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than Montgomery County which spends considerably more per child than FCPS and doesn't teach advanced math in general ed, what other school systems are teaching advanced instruction better than FCPS?

What do you mean Montgomery County doesn't teach advanced math in General Ed? Any student has the option of starting advanced math at the Compacted 4/5 level without regard to entry into HGC (highly gifted center).

How is this better than Fairfax? FCPS allows for all children to access basic grade level standards 1 grade above starting in kindergarten. They also teach basic and extended math standards for the grade above starting in 3rd for AAP. The general ed program is already at the level of MCPS, but starts 4 years earlier.

They do? I didn't know that.

Yes. It's right here. If a particular school doesn't because of staffing or a principal decision, parents can contact their school board rep. Typically K doesn't offer much advanced math instruction from the teacher (usually it's an advanced math computer game or something), but I haven't heard of any issues from 1st grade on with advanced math instruction. http://www.fcps.edu/is/math/elementary/

This was a few years ago now, but my child and three others were being pulled out for advanced math in both K and first grade. In second grade they pre-tested all the kids before each chapter and put them into different groupings. My child, the three others from K and first grade, and a small group of other kids were always in the most advanced group and were working ahead all year. It's possible a parent might not know their child was working ahead, although I seem to recall being told about it at the teachers conference. So, yes, they've been doing this for a while.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you find this fascinating, stick around, because IT NEVER ENDS. How many electrons go to their deaths in the service of tippety tappy posters convinced they know what's best for other people's children.

NP here. I agree that parents typically know what's best for their own children, or think they do. But public schools are designed to serve all children, not just your own. Given the limited resources FCPS has, the fact that an outsized share of those resources are going to provide a more advanced education predominantly for children from high income families is worth discussing.

It's already been proposed that bussing to centers if your school has a robust LLIV program will be eliminated. That is the only cost that is extra beyond the testing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This entire artificial construct that "gifted" children's needs couldn't be met in a non-AAP classroom is ridiculous.

Hordes of illegals are not an artificial construct.

The truth emerges. You don't want your kids around "those" people.

But let me guess, you voted D.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are kidding yourself if you think our kids are getting an advanced education in AAP. The stuff they are doing is nowhere near as creative as the average public school in Minnesota. I had the privelege of attending an American school overseas, and learned the hard way that America is ridiculously behind the rest of the world when it comes to education.

FCPS has watered down the AAP program so it is almost just regular school with more homework. The ONLY real difference is possible exposure to more advanced math, if that happens to be your child's area.

- signed parent of two AAP students who is not impressed

My sister lives in Colorado, and at her middle school (West) in the Cherry Creek School district, there are sixth graders walking over to the nearby high school (Cherry Creek) for Calculus.

People who think AAP is the premier gifted program in the country are deluding themselves.

I don't think people think that, but either way, this group of super gifted children is not what this thread is about. The focus is on the kids who are in the gifted program, but don't need to be there. Not how gifted is FCPS's gifted program. Start another thread for that if you want.

I think "how gifted" FCPS's program is and discussing kids who "don't need to be there" are related. The fact it is so large means that it captures kids who truly, at the end of the day, are bright but not gifted.

I contend that if FCPS parents want to claim it's one of the best school districts in the state, or country, that logically has to encompass a wider base than just the AAP centers. It's ridiculous that people are asserting that their run-of-the-mill bright children are incapable of being educated in the mainstream.

I agree completely. Well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a child in AAP. And before anyone starts with the "you didn't have to enroll her if you think base schools are fine" our center is in our base school.

This entire artificial construct that "gifted" children's needs couldn't be met in a non-AAP classroom is ridiculous. If AAP didn't exist, I guarantee schools would adjust as need to be accommodate the more advanced learners. Thousands of really terrific school districts across the country do just that. It's a fact.

Of course removing top-performing kids from base schools will change the base schools. But it's ludicrous for parents not to recognize those schools would also change if AAP kids moved back.

The people who defend AAP are trying to protect their ability to overtly show their child is "gifted."

Our experience is exactly the same - our base school is the center. Your description of it being an "an artificial construct" is right on the money. Nearly half the kids (3-6) are in AAP. It's really become such a joke. Lake Wobegon, VA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This entire artificial construct that "gifted" children's needs couldn't be met in a non-AAP classroom is ridiculous.

Tell FCPS that. Maybe they've stopped, but they used to send out a letter that said, "The program is for children whose needs cannot be met in the regular classroom."

Oh wow, it's hilarious that they're still making that claim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This entire artificial construct that "gifted" children's needs couldn't be met in a non-AAP classroom is ridiculous.

Tell FCPS that. Maybe they've stopped, but they used to send out a letter that said, "The program is for children whose needs cannot be met in the regular classroom."

Oh wow, it's hilarious that they're still making that claim.

Even funnier than that, actually. The exact language cites can't be met in "GENERAL ED." It's laughable parents are screaming that their AAP kids can't be moved back to a base school. No one says the kids would go back into GENERAL ED. The kids in Level III aren't in GENERAL ED.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child in AAP. And before anyone starts with the "you didn't have to enroll her if you think base schools are fine" our center is in our base school.

This entire artificial construct that "gifted" children's needs couldn't be met in a non-AAP classroom is ridiculous. If AAP didn't exist, I guarantee schools would adjust as need to be accommodate the more advanced learners. Thousands of really terrific school districts across the country do just that. It's a fact.

Of course removing top-performing kids from base schools will change the base schools. But it's ludicrous for parents not to recognize those schools would also change if AAP kids moved back.

The people who defend AAP are trying to protect their ability to overtly show their child is "gifted."

Our experience is exactly the same - our base school is the center. Your description of it being an "an artificial construct" is right on the money. Nearly half the kids (3-6) are in AAP. It's really become such a joke. Lake Wobegon, VA.

Half the 3-6 graders are in AAP? You center school only has students from the base school? Our center school has students from 6 other schools.

[Anonymous]

Someone mentioned the Cherry Creek School District in Colorado earlier. That's a good comparison for size, demographics, differences across the district, etc.

The district offers a self-contained gifted school, for which students must apply but don't need to be referred.
http://challenge.cherrycreekschools.org/Pages/default.aspx

You'd think the bulk of the students would come from the wealthier parts of the district, but they don't. Most of the kids draw from the schools where the overall demographics or caliber aren't great.

Why not a system like this? Some of the FCPS elementary schools are absolutely outstanding. It's crazy to think a smart child's needs "couldn't be me" in that environment. And leave an option where those who choose can self select to apply, for whatever reason.

And the Challenge School does not provide transportation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Someone mentioned the Cherry Creek School District in Colorado earlier. That's a good comparison for size, demographics, differences across the district, etc.

The district offers a self-contained gifted school, for which students must apply but don't need to be referred.
http://challenge.cherrycreekschools.org/Pages/default.aspx

You'd think the bulk of the students would come from the wealthier parts of the district, but they don't. Most of the kids draw from the schools where the overall demographics or caliber aren't great.

Why not a system like this? Some of the FCPS elementary schools are absolutely outstanding. It's crazy to think a smart child's needs "couldn't be me" in that environment. And leave an option where those who choose can self select to apply, for whatever reason.

And the Challenge School does not provide transportation.

There are thousands of school districts and thousands of implementations of some sort of program. To read this thread, all of those implementations are better than how FCPS is doing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you find this fascinating, stick around, because IT NEVER ENDS. How many electrons go to their deaths in the service of tippety tappy posters convinced they know what's best for other people's children.

NP here. I agree that parents typically know what's best for their own children, or think they do. But public schools are designed to serve all children, not just your own. Given the limited resources FCPS has, the fact that an outsized share of those resources are going to provide a more advanced education predominantly for children from high income families is worth discussing.

+ 1000
As an FCPS taxpayer, I thank you.