Do you think Shepherd Elementary will become/is becoming more diverse?

[Anonymous]

Whoops--as circumstances *allow.*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am, however, just for the sake of argument here, pointing out that you could walk another block (in the case of Shepherd)--or have your child walk another block alone (I know, right? Horrors! Even though there is a crossing guard!!!) at any time during the year, even if it is not "walk your child to school day," and your child would probably live. I'm not saying you should do this if they are 3... but all you people with 3 year olds IB could probably walk the entire way, because the neighborhood, it's not that big and you're all in bound for it.

8 blocks each way is a long walk for a 3 year old. Also some of us work so adding 40 minutes to morning routine is not an option. I get where you're going with this, but why are you being so nasty about it?

Not PP but no one is saying walk 8 blocks. What I am saying is park two blocks away and walk your child in to school instead of double parking in front of the school. Also don't do a u-turn in the middle of 14th St during pick-up/drop-off time because it is illegal and dangerous!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am, however, just for the sake of argument here, pointing out that you could walk another block (in the case of Shepherd)--or have your child walk another block alone (I know, right? Horrors! Even though there is a crossing guard!!!) at any time during the year, even if it is not "walk your child to school day," and your child would probably live. I'm not saying you should do this if they are 3... but all you people with 3 year olds IB could probably walk the entire way, because the neighborhood, it's not that big and you're all in bound for it.

8 blocks each way is a long walk for a 3 year old. Also some of us work so adding 40 minutes to morning routine is not an option. I get where you're going with this, but why are you being so nasty about it?

Not PP but no one is saying walk 8 blocks. What I am saying is park two blocks away and walk your child in to school instead of double parking in front of the school. Also don't do a u-turn in the middle of 14th St during pick-up/drop-off time because it is illegal and dangerous!

Someone is saying it:
"but all you people with 3 year olds IB could probably walk the entire way, because the neighborhood, it's not that big and you're all in bound for it."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As more families with young children move into the Shepherd Park neighborhood, and as more IB families are considering attending Shepherd Elementary, do you think that the school will start to become more diverse? Based on its academic trajectory, Shepherd looks like a school that is already good and increasingly getting better, and I would like to seriously consider it as an option for our DC (we moved to the neighborhood not long after school began this past August). My only hesitation is the concern that the demographics of the school show a rather non-diverse environment, although I don't know how that breaks out by grade level. I wasn't originally concerned that DC might be an "only" in class (DC is white/Asian), but a recent conversation has me questioning my stance.

A good college friend was visiting this weekend, and as I was telling her about the school, she looked at the DCPS profile for the school and noticed the not-very-diverse demographics (79% black, 9% Hispanic/Latino, 4% white, 0% Asian, 8% multiple races). My friend, who is black, grew up in a very white town and was the only black child in her grade all throughout elementary school. She said that while she never experienced outright racism or overt exclusion, she always felt somewhat at a remove from the other kids, and felt increasingly alienated as she moved from K through the 6th grade. Occasional mean or insensitive comments were directed towards her, and she thinks that she was excluded from some social things because of being black. Based on our conversation, she obviously still feels some hurt from this experience and wonders what it would have been like to grow up in a more diverse school, not feeling like such an outsider. Obviously everybody's experiences are their own, but she told me to consider taking her experiences into account while deciding about DC's school.

I have absolutely no problem with DC being a minority in class, but I can definitely see why it would be more comfortable to not be a minority of just one or two. Based on several Shepherd open houses that I attended, it seems like a very diverse group is interested in the early childhood program. Do any current Shepherd parents or potential parents have insight? DC would be entering kindergarten.

The OP's original question is bolded and underlined above. The OP then goes on to cite the racial demographics and discuss skin color, so there can be no doubt that the OP's question is 100% about race. All of you who are whining about "why does every thread have to devolve into a race debate", please recognize that this thread began as one.

Now, to answer OP's question. OP, the other stat that you did not cite, but which has been referenced by many posters, is the in boundary percentage at Shepherd. It is 32% IB, 68% OOB. So the first answer to your question is, no, I don't believe that Shepherd will become more diverse (aka, less overwhelmingly black) anytime soon, because the majority of its students are OOB, and the majority of DCPS families are black, and I would assume that the OOB population at Shepherd would continue to be majority black.

Regarding the IB population, it is becoming more diverse, but more slowly than some other EOTP neighborhoods. Honestly I have never had a single (white) friend or colleague mention to me that they are considering a move to Shepherd Park. Maybe it's just who I know and I don't know why that is or what to make of it, but at least among the non-black people I know it is not considered. So that's the second half of the answer to your question, no, I don't think that Shepherd's IB population will become much less black anytime soon.

Now, I also want to comment on another issue that comes up in this thread and in many threads, and that is, the correct percentage by which to measure "diversity" when expressed as percentage of black students. I have always found this fascinating. Here are some candidates:

Blacks as a percentage of DC public school students: 86%?
Blacks as a percentage of DC residents: 48%
Blacks as a percentage of greater DC metro area: ???
Blacks as a percentage of the 10 largest American cities: ???
Blacks as a percentage of the United States of America: 13%
Blacks as a percentage of the whole world: ???

Which of these is correct? I think posters are free to choose whichever they like, but I don't see why you want to criticize each other's choices. It seems to me that any number between 13% and 86% can be supported. For example, there are those who grew up elsewhere who think that the US-wide demographics represent a good diverse mix, and others who insist that this is Chocolate City and anything less than half black is unrepresentative. For those who insist on the Chocolate City standard, that's understandable, but you could at least acknowledge that this was a temporary time in the city's history, spanning roughly 40 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As more families with young children move into the Shepherd Park neighborhood, and as more IB families are considering attending Shepherd Elementary, do you think that the school will start to become more diverse? Based on its academic trajectory, Shepherd looks like a school that is already good and increasingly getting better, and I would like to seriously consider it as an option for our DC (we moved to the neighborhood not long after school began this past August). My only hesitation is the concern that the demographics of the school show a rather non-diverse environment, although I don't know how that breaks out by grade level. I wasn't originally concerned that DC might be an "only" in class (DC is white/Asian), but a recent conversation has me questioning my stance.

A good college friend was visiting this weekend, and as I was telling her about the school, she looked at the DCPS profile for the school and noticed the not-very-diverse demographics (79% black, 9% Hispanic/Latino, 4% white, 0% Asian, 8% multiple races). My friend, who is black, grew up in a very white town and was the only black child in her grade all throughout elementary school. She said that while she never experienced outright racism or overt exclusion, she always felt somewhat at a remove from the other kids, and felt increasingly alienated as she moved from K through the 6th grade. Occasional mean or insensitive comments were directed towards her, and she thinks that she was excluded from some social things because of being black. Based on our conversation, she obviously still feels some hurt from this experience and wonders what it would have been like to grow up in a more diverse school, not feeling like such an outsider. Obviously everybody's experiences are their own, but she told me to consider taking her experiences into account while deciding about DC's school.

I have absolutely no problem with DC being a minority in class, but I can definitely see why it would be more comfortable to not be a minority of just one or two. Based on several Shepherd open houses that I attended, it seems like a very diverse group is interested in the early childhood program. Do any current Shepherd parents or potential parents have insight? DC would be entering kindergarten.

The OP's original question is bolded and underlined above. The OP then goes on to cite the racial demographics and discuss skin color, so there can be no doubt that the OP's question is 100% about race. All of you who are whining about "why does every thread have to devolve into a race debate", please recognize that this thread began as one.

Now, to answer OP's question. OP, the other stat that you did not cite, but which has been referenced by many posters, is the in boundary percentage at Shepherd. It is 32% IB, 68% OOB. So the first answer to your question is, no, I don't believe that Shepherd will become more diverse (aka, less overwhelmingly black) anytime soon, because the majority of its students are OOB, and the majority of DCPS families are black, and I would assume that the OOB population at Shepherd would continue to be majority black.

Regarding the IB population, it is becoming more diverse, but more slowly than some other EOTP neighborhoods. Honestly I have never had a single (white) friend or colleague mention to me that they are considering a move to Shepherd Park. Maybe it's just who I know and I don't know why that is or what to make of it, but at least among the non-black people I know it is not considered. So that's the second half of the answer to your question, no, I don't think that Shepherd's IB population will become much less black anytime soon.

Now, I also want to comment on another issue that comes up in this thread and in many threads, and that is, the correct percentage by which to measure "diversity" when expressed as percentage of black students. I have always found this fascinating. Here are some candidates:

Blacks as a percentage of DC public school students: 86%?
Blacks as a percentage of DC residents: 48%
Blacks as a percentage of greater DC metro area: ???
Blacks as a percentage of the 10 largest American cities: ???
Blacks as a percentage of the United States of America: 13%
Blacks as a percentage of the whole world: ???

Which of these is correct? I think posters are free to choose whichever they like, but I don't see why you want to criticize each other's choices. It seems to me that any number between 13% and 86% can be supported. For example, there are those who grew up elsewhere who think that the US-wide demographics represent a good diverse mix, and others who insist that this is Chocolate City and anything less than half black is unrepresentative. For those who insist on the Chocolate City standard, that's understandable, but you could at least acknowledge that this was a temporary time in the city's history, spanning roughly 40 years.

I am PP. This statement I made in bold above, I provided only anecdotal evidence but you could look at census data. Columbia Heights and Bloomingdale, for example, experienced dramatic black to white shifts over the 2000-2010 period, while Shepherd Park did not, IIUC.

[Anonymous]

Shepherd Park has always been diverse. I do think that, to be blunt: "more white folks are moving in and sending their kids to Shepherd,"--yes. Offensive and loaded as that statement is, it is still true. But one thing that being white and being one of those people can teach you, (and I hope this doesn't make me sound like more of an asshole), is that diversity can encompass lot more than skin color. A lot more. Anyone commuting to Shepherd from OOB is obviously dedicated to getting their kid the best education possible because it is a good school and they want their kids to succeed. It's a self-selecting group of concerned and dedicated parents--the very thing everyone seems to want.

[Anonymous]

Honestly I have never had a single (white) friend or colleague mention to me that they are considering a move to Shepherd Park. Maybe it's just who I know and I don't know why that is or what to make of it, but at least among the non-black people I know it is not considered. So that's the second half of the answer to your question, no, I don't think that Shepherd's IB population will become much less black anytime soon.

It's just you. Really. I know three families who've moved there in the last four years - all white.

You also have to take into consideration that WOTP housing stock is scarce and getting more so every year. Add boundary changes to the equation and it's not too far off to believe that people who are looking for a yard and a path to Deal will be looking in Shepherd Park.

What's mysterious to me is why PP and others seem offended by the possibility that more white parents would send their kids to a school that's doing pretty well by almost every measure. This aversion to people who drive from a different neighborhood is non-existent at HRCS. But mention an OOB population greater than 25% at a DCPS and all these bad-mouthers - who've never spent any time at the school in question - get busy at the keyboard.

I mean, you're not going to attend the school, so why do you even care enough to post about it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Honestly I have never had a single (white) friend or colleague mention to me that they are considering a move to Shepherd Park. Maybe it's just who I know and I don't know why that is or what to make of it, but at least among the non-black people I know it is not considered. So that's the second half of the answer to your question, no, I don't think that Shepherd's IB population will become much less black anytime soon.

It's just you. Really. I know three families who've moved there in the last four years - all white.

You also have to take into consideration that WOTP housing stock is scarce and getting more so every year. Add boundary changes to the equation and it's not too far off to believe that people who are looking for a yard and a path to Deal will be looking in Shepherd Park.

What's mysterious to me is why PP and others seem offended by the possibility that more white parents would send their kids to a school that's doing pretty well by almost every measure. This aversion to people who drive from a different neighborhood is non-existent at HRCS. But mention an OOB population greater than 25% at a DCPS and all these bad-mouthers - who've never spent any time at the school in question - get busy at the keyboard.

I mean, you're not going to attend the school, so why do you even care enough to post about it?

I know--I was also trying to figure out the PP's motivation for posting. I can't tell if he/she is a white poster who can't imagine white people would want to move there, someone who is trying to protect their property values on the other side of town, or what. What is clear is that he/she doesn't live in Shepherd Park.

On my particular block in Shepherd Park, there are 3 white families, 5 black families (including mine), and 1 interracial family. Some are long-time residents. Of the 4 families on the block who've moved here in recent years, 3 of whom have young children, 2 are white and 2 are black. I know many of these families, have been to their homes, kids know each other, etc.--it's a wonderfully friendly, progressive community. This account is admittedly anecdotal and I know others may have a different experience on their block, but it is probably more informed than the PP quoted here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Honestly I have never had a single (white) friend or colleague mention to me that they are considering a move to Shepherd Park. Maybe it's just who I know and I don't know why that is or what to make of it, but at least among the non-black people I know it is not considered. So that's the second half of the answer to your question, no, I don't think that Shepherd's IB population will become much less black anytime soon.

It's just you. Really. I know three families who've moved there in the last four years - all white.

You also have to take into consideration that WOTP housing stock is scarce and getting more so every year. Add boundary changes to the equation and it's not too far off to believe that people who are looking for a yard and a path to Deal will be looking in Shepherd Park.

What's mysterious to me is why PP and others seem offended by the possibility that more white parents would send their kids to a school that's doing pretty well by almost every measure. This aversion to people who drive from a different neighborhood is non-existent at HRCS. But mention an OOB population greater than 25% at a DCPS and all these bad-mouthers - who've never spent any time at the school in question - get busy at the keyboard.

I mean, you're not going to attend the school, so why do you even care enough to post about it?

I followed up with the census information. It is not just me. Yes, there is a slow demographic change in Shepherd park but no, there is not a rapid change that will significantly affect the school composition as there has been in other neighborhoods. SP appears to have a long-standing character that is slow to change, in contrast to Bloomingdale for example, which had a long standing character but then suddenly changed. Why this difference between neighborhoods? This is complicated I am sure, and above my pay grade, but I think my answer to OP's <<<actual question>>> was fair.

If you don't care about the racial composition of this or any school, or you prefer that this thread focus more on the quality of education at Shepherd, that's fine, but that's a departure from OP's question. And if you predict that SP will change more rapidly, as you seem to, then you are entitled to your opinion. I doubt it personally, but I've been wrong before.

One thing I did not do was express any opinion on whether IB/OOB (or black/white!) was desirable. You inferred that, or you are getting it from the posts of other people. The post you quoted was my first in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Honestly I have never had a single (white) friend or colleague mention to me that they are considering a move to Shepherd Park. Maybe it's just who I know and I don't know why that is or what to make of it, but at least among the non-black people I know it is not considered. So that's the second half of the answer to your question, no, I don't think that Shepherd's IB population will become much less black anytime soon.

It's just you. Really. I know three families who've moved there in the last four years - all white.

You also have to take into consideration that WOTP housing stock is scarce and getting more so every year. Add boundary changes to the equation and it's not too far off to believe that people who are looking for a yard and a path to Deal will be looking in Shepherd Park.

What's mysterious to me is why PP and others seem offended by the possibility that more white parents would send their kids to a school that's doing pretty well by almost every measure. This aversion to people who drive from a different neighborhood is non-existent at HRCS. But mention an OOB population greater than 25% at a DCPS and all these bad-mouthers - who've never spent any time at the school in question - get busy at the keyboard.

I mean, you're not going to attend the school, so why do you even care enough to post about it?

I did not take from the PPs statement that she was offended. My take away was that she was simply citing what she saw from her admittedly limited perspective.

On a separate note, as someone who is about to buy a home in Colonial Village just across from SP-- and who happens to be African American-- I think you will continue to see both blacks and whites moving to the area. My husband grew up in this neighborhood (and attended Shepherd) and many of his friends are still in the neighborhood or looking to move back. The African Americans in both Shepherd Pk and Colonial Village are well educated and have MUCH higher incomes than African Americans in other areas of the city that saw major (and quick) shifts from black to white. African Americans in SP/CV are not eager to sell. As a matter of fact, many are holding or passing the property to children.

Shepherd Pk is already diverse-- at least by DC standards. I believe it will continue to be.

[Anonymous]

"Regarding the IB population, it is becoming more diverse, but more slowly than some other EOTP neighborhoods. Honestly I have never had a single (white) friend or colleague mention to me that they are considering a move to Shepherd Park."

How are people supposed to evaluate the merit of this statement when we don't know where you live or work? Maybe you work somewhere difficult to get to from Shepherd Park, or maybe you don't even work in DC; we don't know. Maybe you live in MD or VA. Maybe you work for The Heritage Foundation. Just saying that just because you don't know people considering this area of DC means little without the appropriate context.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Regarding the IB population, it is becoming more diverse, but more slowly than some other EOTP neighborhoods. Honestly I have never had a single (white) friend or colleague mention to me that they are considering a move to Shepherd Park."

How are people supposed to evaluate the merit of this statement when we don't know where you live or work? Maybe you work somewhere difficult to get to from Shepherd Park, or maybe you don't even work in DC; we don't know. Maybe you live in MD or VA. Maybe you work for The Heritage Foundation. Just saying that just because you don't know people considering this area of DC means little without the appropriate context.

No the PP-- but she did write, "...Maybe it's just who I know and I don't know why that is or what to make of it..."

Clearly she understood that her perspective might be limited. I'm not sure why everyone keeps nitpicking that post.

[Anonymous]

PP mentioned it but it's also very important to note, houses rarely go on sale in SP. Last year there were about 20 sales. SP (the neighbhood) is extremely diverse and one of my favorites things about it. Diverse in every sense of the meaning. Same sex families, inter-racial families, multi-generational families, Jewish families, Jewish same sex families with adopted kids, many senior citizens, European families. There aren't many Hispanic families. With only 20 sales a year, my guess is the neighborhood will keep the current demographics for generations to come (and I hope it does). Makes sense that the high OOB population causes it to be more AA as the DCPS pool is largely AA. Shepherd students are bright and successful kids and I would have no qualms sending my white son even if he were an "only".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Regarding the IB population, it is becoming more diverse, but more slowly than some other EOTP neighborhoods. Honestly I have never had a single (white) friend or colleague mention to me that they are considering a move to Shepherd Park."

How are people supposed to evaluate the merit of this statement when we don't know where you live or work? Maybe you work somewhere difficult to get to from Shepherd Park, or maybe you don't even work in DC; we don't know. Maybe you live in MD or VA. Maybe you work for The Heritage Foundation. Just saying that just because you don't know people considering this area of DC means little without the appropriate context.

I'm PP you are quoting, and I am probably close to exiting this thread, although I have found it interesting.

SP is convenient to many DC-area work locations, including but not limited to downtown DC. Based on geography alone, you would think that it would be considered by a lot of people. Yet, a number of people I know have chosen to live in areas very near Shepherd Park (Takoma, Brightwood, Silver Spring), but non has chosen SP so far. Yes, context matters. I am not married to an African American who grew up in SP like the poster above. But demographic statistics are readily available so this needn't be another battle of the anecdotes. SP has a distinct, historically rooted character that it seems likely to retain. This is in contrast to some other historically black DC neighborhoods that are changing quickly. The PP above provided an explanation for this based on the differences between the black populations (higher income and wealth in SP than in some of the "gentrifying" neighborhoods).

Going back to OP's question, for these reasons and also the point I made about OOB above, my answer is no, I don't expect Shepherd Elementary to become much more diverse in the near future. "More diverse" being defined by OP in this thread as, less black. That's all I was saying. I could be wrong. Not sure why the conversation has to be so difficult. Anyway, Shepherd Elementary and Shepherd Park both seem attractive options, and I'm glad to see they have such strong support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As more families with young children move into the Shepherd Park neighborhood, and as more IB families are considering attending Shepherd Elementary, do you think that the school will start to become more diverse? Based on its academic trajectory, Shepherd looks like a school that is already good and increasingly getting better, and I would like to seriously consider it as an option for our DC (we moved to the neighborhood not long after school began this past August). My only hesitation is the concern that the demographics of the school show a rather non-diverse environment, although I don't know how that breaks out by grade level. I wasn't originally concerned that DC might be an "only" in class (DC is white/Asian), but a recent conversation has me questioning my stance.

A good college friend was visiting this weekend, and as I was telling her about the school, she looked at the DCPS profile for the school and noticed the not-very-diverse demographics (79% black, 9% Hispanic/Latino, 4% white, 0% Asian, 8% multiple races). My friend, who is black, grew up in a very white town and was the only black child in her grade all throughout elementary school. She said that while she never experienced outright racism or overt exclusion, she always felt somewhat at a remove from the other kids, and felt increasingly alienated as she moved from K through the 6th grade. Occasional mean or insensitive comments were directed towards her, and she thinks that she was excluded from some social things because of being black. Based on our conversation, she obviously still feels some hurt from this experience and wonders what it would have been like to grow up in a more diverse school, not feeling like such an outsider. Obviously everybody's experiences are their own, but she told me to consider taking her experiences into account while deciding about DC's school.

I have absolutely no problem with DC being a minority in class, but I can definitely see why it would be more comfortable to not be a minority of just one or two. Based on several Shepherd open houses that I attended, it seems like a very diverse group is interested in the early childhood program. Do any current Shepherd parents or potential parents have insight? DC would be entering kindergarten.

The OP's original question is bolded and underlined above. The OP then goes on to cite the racial demographics and discuss skin color, so there can be no doubt that the OP's question is 100% about race. All of you who are whining about "why does every thread have to devolve into a race debate", please recognize that this thread began as one.

Now, to answer OP's question. OP, the other stat that you did not cite, but which has been referenced by many posters, is the in boundary percentage at Shepherd. It is 32% IB, 68% OOB. So the first answer to your question is, no, I don't believe that Shepherd will become more diverse (aka, less overwhelmingly black) anytime soon, because the majority of its students are OOB, and the majority of DCPS families are black, and I would assume that the OOB population at Shepherd would continue to be majority black.

Regarding the IB population, it is becoming more diverse, but more slowly than some other EOTP neighborhoods. Honestly I have never had a single (white) friend or colleague mention to me that they are considering a move to Shepherd Park. Maybe it's just who I know and I don't know why that is or what to make of it, but at least among the non-black people I know it is not considered. So that's the second half of the answer to your question, no, I don't think that Shepherd's IB population will become much less black anytime soon.

Now, I also want to comment on another issue that comes up in this thread and in many threads, and that is, the correct percentage by which to measure "diversity" when expressed as percentage of black students. I have always found this fascinating. Here are some candidates:

Blacks as a percentage of DC public school students: 86%?
Blacks as a percentage of DC residents: 48%
Blacks as a percentage of greater DC metro area: ???
Blacks as a percentage of the 10 largest American cities: ???
Blacks as a percentage of the United States of America: 13%
Blacks as a percentage of the whole world: ???

Which of these is correct? I think posters are free to choose whichever they like, but I don't see why you want to criticize each other's choices. It seems to me that any number between 13% and 86% can be supported. For example, there are those who grew up elsewhere who think that the US-wide demographics represent a good diverse mix, and others who insist that this is Chocolate City and anything less than half black is unrepresentative. For those who insist on the Chocolate City standard, that's understandable, but you could at least acknowledge that this was a temporary time in the city's history, spanning roughly 40 years.

Very good points. You made me look up demographic data for Washington metropolitan area. Based on the 2010 census:
54% white
26% black
15% Hispanic
9% Asian

(Obviously some overlap)