Financial Value of SAHM Services

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Before the kids were in school, the value was equivalent to whatever full time child care costs. I stayed at home in large part because I couldn't earn more than $50,000 a year in my field that that's what we figured I'd have to make in order to actually take home enough money to justify working. I agree with PP, I'd be doing everything else anyway.

Now that the kids are in school, the only value is that DD doesn't have to quit dancing because I'm available to take her to class after school and DH gets to have the career of his dreams because he has someone else to do 100% of the parenting when he has to travel or is just swamped with work. So from DD and DH's perspective, my value is priceless. Real financial value? Not much.

From your child's perspective, that's just sad. I'd much rather want my dad around then know that my mom's value was only as good as the ability my father has to be absent from my life. Very sad.

[Anonymous]

The stay at home parent in my family (who happens to be the dad) has saved up to $24k in daycare or child care fees per year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP valued SAHM services at about $100,000. I agree with earlier posters that the actual value is much less. I'm a SAHM of 3 school-aged kids and I don't even carry life insurance because the financial cost of having the kids go to after-care is so low.

IMHO, the minimum HHI in which it makes sense for someone to stay at home is about $400k or more in the case where the partner staying home is highly educated. At least, that was my threshold, along with 3 kids.

(It wasn't like my spouse started making that number and I just quit. It was a much slower process where I slowly started cutting back my work hours and taking on more of the household work -- almost without noticing. I had become the "default parent" and a very stressed out one at that.)

You and your DH are making a big mistake in not having life insurance on you. Imagine that you drop dead of a brain aneurysm tomorrow. Who would take your place and do everything you do and for how much? How would your DH and children cope emotionally with your loss? My SIL died suddenly last year leaving two young children. That has necessitated hiring a full-time live-in nanny plus evening, weekend and childcare to cover all the hours SIL used to be available. The children are in therapy and that is another extra cost they didn't have before. How many years would DH be able to keep this up without additional financial help?

Finally! Someone mentions life insurance. I am a SAHM and DH and I purchased term life insurance for each of us based on our current roles. He has life insurance through work, but we don't feel it's enough to maintain our current modest lifestyle. If I died, DH would need a nanny, housekeeper, cook, etc. This is not to validate myself but to assess real dollars to services that might need to be replaced. I think we got insurance to sum about $80,000. I think. It was a few years ago. This is not a debate of SAHM va. WOHM vs. WAHM But to attribute real dollars to hiring situations.

That's not enough, pp. Unless you have family in the area to pick up the slack, you would go through $80,000 in a few years just in childcare costs. We have $500,000 on me and double on DH.

Then it's whatever the interest would be at $80,000/year. We did this with a financial planner and insurance agent, and it made sense at the time. its not an amount we would run through in a year. Thank you for your concern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP valued SAHM services at about $100,000. I agree with earlier posters that the actual value is much less. I'm a SAHM of 3 school-aged kids and I don't even carry life insurance because the financial cost of having the kids go to after-care is so low.

IMHO, the minimum HHI in which it makes sense for someone to stay at home is about $400k or more in the case where the partner staying home is highly educated. At least, that was my threshold, along with 3 kids.

(It wasn't like my spouse started making that number and I just quit. It was a much slower process where I slowly started cutting back my work hours and taking on more of the household work -- almost without noticing. I had become the "default parent" and a very stressed out one at that.)

You and your DH are making a big mistake in not having life insurance on you. Imagine that you drop dead of a brain aneurysm tomorrow. Who would take your place and do everything you do and for how much? How would your DH and children cope emotionally with your loss? My SIL died suddenly last year leaving two young children. That has necessitated hiring a full-time live-in nanny plus evening, weekend and childcare to cover all the hours SIL used to be available. The children are in therapy and that is another extra cost they didn't have before. How many years would DH be able to keep this up without additional financial help?

Finally! Someone mentions life insurance. I am a SAHM and DH and I purchased term life insurance for each of us based on our current roles. He has life insurance through work, but we don't feel it's enough to maintain our current modest lifestyle. If I died, DH would need a nanny, housekeeper, cook, etc. This is not to validate myself but to assess real dollars to services that might need to be replaced. I think we got insurance to sum about $80,000. I think. It was a few years ago. This is not a debate of SAHM va. WOHM vs. WAHM But to attribute real dollars to hiring situations.

That's not enough, pp. Unless you have family in the area to pick up the slack, you would go through $80,000 in a few years just in childcare costs. We have $500,000 on me and double on DH.

Then it's whatever the interest would be at $80,000/year. We did this with a financial planner and insurance agent, and it made sense at the time. its not an amount we would run through in a year. Thank you for your concern.

Pp said several years, not one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, I was raised by a SAHM and barely remember anything before pre-K. I doubt I would have been damaged by daycare.

+1. I don't remember anything before 7 with my sahm. But afterwards she was priceless and I want to be there for my child too. Which is why I got off the fast track and planning to get off work at 3pm when school starts. 6am-3pm hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, having just been divorced -- I can at least tell you how the court values your SAHM services economically: $0.00!! Married 22 years and worked for many before becoming SAHM. Even though I stayed home to raise the family and made many sacrifices to put DH's job first, I get no credit for that. Alimony is not the norm anymore as long as you are considered capable of working. So despite having made six figures before I quit working and only being able to get a job making $40K now because my skills are no longer relevant, I get nothing.

I was never a proponent of pre-nups before, but I will make sure that my daughters have some sort of pre-nup or post-nup if they ever decide to be SAHMs. I don't regret staying home -- it was wonderful for me and for my kids. However, if I had it to do over, I would continue working at least part-time to maintain my skills and contacts.

That law is ridiculous. Earning potential goes down dramatically even after a few years out!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The OP asked at what HHI does it make sense to be a SAHM. I think that depends on the individual situation.

My DH makes $155,000, which is technically enough for me to be a SAHM to my 3 kids as I had once hoped. However, there are a couple of reasons why I still work.

First, my mom had a high-powered career and she always really valued her financial independence, even though my parents have a good solid marriage. I currently make a slightly higher salary than my DH ($165,000 plus bonus) and I am able to get a solid 401(k) plus invest. I feel secure financially and know I’m not dependent on anyone, even though I love my husband. When I was a child, I missed my mom a lot when she was working long hours, and so I dreamed of being a SAHM for at least a period of time to be there more fully for my kids. But I realize that I am more at peace when I am earning my own money, just in case anything happened to my marriage (which I don’t anticipate).

Second, my husband has a mild drinking issue (which he disputes), and I worry that he may not be able to hold onto his job for another 20 years (we’re in our early 40’s).

Third, and this is unique to my marriage and may not apply to others, my DH and I seem to get along better when I work too. The marriage seems more balanced. For example, now that I make more than he does (compared to when I worked part-time), he completely understands the need to relieve the nanny at 6pm sharp (rather than assuming I will do it since I was only part-time.)

I think it’s a nice thing for the kids to have a SAHM if the SAHM is at peace with her place and if the marriage is strong. But if that is not 100 percent there, then I think it's best for the mom to WOHM.

In your case staying at home would negatively impact the family's standard of living because you both earn nearly the same. It generally makes a little more sense to have one partner stay at home when the stay-at-home spouse's income does not cover the cost of outside childcare.

I don't see many professionals marrying people whose income would barely cover childcare though, at least not in the 45 years and under crowd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a silly question because it assumes a common denominator where there is none to be had. Let's take our collective heads out of the DCUM upper middle-class lifestyle for a second.

Not every SAHM lives in a 3,000 sqft house (vastly different cost to clean).

Not every SAHM cooks, and when they do, the quality is vastly different (won't pay as much for Burger King as you do for Citronelle).

Not every SAHM tutors, checks homework, takes kids to activities, stages enrichment headquarters at the kitchen table etc. (huge difference in cost)

Some SAHM do childcare like a high-end nanny would, and some do it like a cheapo home daycare would. Can't come up with a single number for those.

So the problem I have with this discussion is that everyone so far assumes that all services SAHM provides are of the personal tutor, Michelin-chef, Mary Poppins quality, and that is simply not the case. You cannot come up with a single rate to describe vastly different packages of services that different SAHM provide. You can come up with the barest lowest minimum and that's about it.

Similarly, there's no debate or angst about a mom who's not a high earner SAH. Nothing to discuss. SAH, or WOH if you prefer and your family at least breaks even. In my case, me working raises our HHI from 200K to 400K and makes a huge difference in our ability to get ahead financially.

I was actually a high earner, earning more than you currently earn over a decade ago in the medical field. However, it was only a drop in the bucket compared to what my significant other was earning, so together we made the decision that I would stay home to take care if the children. We have not regretted that decision even once in the past eleven years.

Ok sure, but statistically there aren't that many men making a million a year. And don't you miss having your own work, even if your family didn't need the money?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please, be nice to the previous poster earning $180,000/year for working 9:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. three days a week.

I am certain that the previous poster works just as hard as the immigrant mother with three children, working two "part-time" jobs for minimum wage.

This is the real reason people around here say that they can't imagine living anywhere else. Because in fact no other place would pay you so much for so few hours. Unless the previous poster is now going to tell us that the days at home with his or her children are actually spent working their job instead.

You are so jealous. Tangent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People - do what works for you and your family and stop judging everyone else!

I don't judge a parent for staying home but I do judge a parent who works 60+ hours a week, takes calls on family holidays, and can't even be bothered to let the dog out. Unless that was Michelle Obama posting before.

There are a ton of these jobs. My dh has one of them. His company understaffs routinely but it's common in his industry. He doesn't make six figures or a ton, for example he's not sacrificing time with family to earn 300k instead of 200k or something. The industry is that way, all in or you're fired. 60 hours the past seven years I've known him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP valued SAHM services at about $100,000. I agree with earlier posters that the actual value is much less. I'm a SAHM of 3 school-aged kids and I don't even carry life insurance because the financial cost of having the kids go to after-care is so low.

IMHO, the minimum HHI in which it makes sense for someone to stay at home is about $400k or more in the case where the partner staying home is highly educated. At least, that was my threshold, along with 3 kids.

(It wasn't like my spouse started making that number and I just quit. It was a much slower process where I slowly started cutting back my work hours and taking on more of the household work -- almost without noticing. I had become the "default parent" and a very stressed out one at that.)

You and your DH are making a big mistake in not having life insurance on you. Imagine that you drop dead of a brain aneurysm tomorrow. Who would take your place and do everything you do and for how much? How would your DH and children cope emotionally with your loss? My SIL died suddenly last year leaving two young children. That has necessitated hiring a full-time live-in nanny plus evening, weekend and childcare to cover all the hours SIL used to be available. The children are in therapy and that is another extra cost they didn't have before. How many years would DH be able to keep this up without additional financial help?

Finally! Someone mentions life insurance. I am a SAHM and DH and I purchased term life insurance for each of us based on our current roles. He has life insurance through work, but we don't feel it's enough to maintain our current modest lifestyle. If I died, DH would need a nanny, housekeeper, cook, etc. This is not to validate myself but to assess real dollars to services that might need to be replaced. I think we got insurance to sum about $80,000. I think. It was a few years ago. This is not a debate of SAHM va. WOHM vs. WAHM But to attribute real dollars to hiring situations.

It completely depends on your lifestyle. A man in our church was sadly widowed a few years ago. He has one preteen son. He has no nanny, housekeeper or cook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The stay at home parent in my family (who happens to be the dad) has saved up to $24k in daycare or child care fees per year.

But only half of that would be charged against his income. He could certainly clear more than $12K a year working full time, right? Plus, childcare costs go way down once the kids are in full time school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a silly question because it assumes a common denominator where there is none to be had. Let's take our collective heads out of the DCUM upper middle-class lifestyle for a second.

Not every SAHM lives in a 3,000 sqft house (vastly different cost to clean).

Not every SAHM cooks, and when they do, the quality is vastly different (won't pay as much for Burger King as you do for Citronelle).

Not every SAHM tutors, checks homework, takes kids to activities, stages enrichment headquarters at the kitchen table etc. (huge difference in cost)

Some SAHM do childcare like a high-end nanny would, and some do it like a cheapo home daycare would. Can't come up with a single number for those.

So the problem I have with this discussion is that everyone so far assumes that all services SAHM provides are of the personal tutor, Michelin-chef, Mary Poppins quality, and that is simply not the case. You cannot come up with a single rate to describe vastly different packages of services that different SAHM provide. You can come up with the barest lowest minimum and that's about it.

Similarly, there's no debate or angst about a mom who's not a high earner SAH. Nothing to discuss. SAH, or WOH if you prefer and your family at least breaks even. In my case, me working raises our HHI from 200K to 400K and makes a huge difference in our ability to get ahead financially.

I was actually a high earner, earning more than you currently earn over a decade ago in the medical field. However, it was only a drop in the bucket compared to what my significant other was earning, so together we made the decision that I would stay home to take care if the children. We have not regretted that decision even once in the past eleven years.

Ok sure, but statistically there aren't that many men making a million a year. And don't you miss having your own work, even if your family didn't need the money?

Another poster here. In our case, my significant other eventually earned enough income that the family could live on that. At that point I was able to ask myself what I really wanted to do, and solving big corporate problems did not hold a candle to dealing with the small, day-to-day triumphs, tribulations, and all things in between of my children's childhood. That was/is my personal decision, and I recognize and respect that 7/10 parents faced with the same circumstances might have decided differently.

[Anonymous]

So PP what are you going to do when your kids grow up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing. I choose not to work but if I did, I would still have to cook, clean, drive, bathe the kids, etc. the difference is I have far more time which I appreciate. If anything you compare it to a nanny who makes 1/3 of that. V

That's just it. There is nothing tangible that a SAHM does that is any different from any other parent. Everyone has to chaueffer their kids around, everyone has to go grocery shopping, everyone has to clean their house everyone has to make sure their young children are supervised.

The benefits of a SAHM are mostly intangible and very difficult to quanitfy economically. It's easy to quatify the 0-5 age day care because if a parent doesn't do it, then you have to pay someone else. And if one parent travels a lot or is out of the home a lot, then again, it's the supervision of the children that has to be done and can be quantified. The other stuff....everyone has to do it--SAHM and WOHP.

You have to pay someone else to do it until the kid is a teen -- unless you are ok with a latchkey kid who stays at home alone on school holidays, summer vacation, inservice days, snow days, and every school day between 3-5 or so.

This used to be fairly normal for most kids ages 13 and up. I don't get why it gives people the vapors these days, assuming the kid is ready.