If you or someone you know is anti-Islam, Why?

[Muslima]

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:
I don't have a Version of Islam. There is One version of Islam that all muslims share, the one that was revealed to Prophet Muhammad saw 1400 years ago. Not a single dot was changed/added to it. Muslims will have differing opinions on some things of course but we are blessed as a community in that we have our original book and have had it for 1400 years unchanged and the complete record of the life of our prophet. If anyone comes and says, "This or that is Islam," we can easily check and verify whether or not it's true. If it doesn't come from the Qur'an or Hadith, then it can't be Islam. So we must use those two sources to explain what Islam really is. Sincere people seek to learn and practice the truth and Allah guides those who seek him. Anything else is opinion.

I think the people arguing with you have made their point- a religion is reflected by its adherents.

Your response here indicates that you aren't really taking this seriously. Really, you'd call the disagreements between different sects of Islam "differing opinions?" Isn't that a bit of an understatement? Aren't there several civil wars being fought right now, at this moment, that contradict this? You really think people haven't managed to interpret the Quran and Hadith differently? And maybe you need to have a bit of self-reflection: couldn't it be possible that this narrow, legalistic, "everything you'll ever need to know is HERE! In this book!" form of thinking could perhaps be part of the PROBLEM in the Islamic world? Especially since you can find basically anything you want in said book???

I think the people arguing with you have made their point- a religion is reflected by its adherents.

a haha!!! Yes, adherents, key word, meaning those who follow its teachings, not all Muslims do this. The Prophet Muhammad saw was described as "the walking Quran" in other words, he didn't just read and recite the Quran, he lived it.

Really, you'd call the disagreements between different sects of Islam "differing opinions?" Isn't that a bit of an understatement? Aren't there several civil wars being fought right now, at this moment, that contradict this?

Not me, that legislation was made by scholars. Islam has a Jurisprudence. The broad meaning of Islamic rulings is broken up into three fundamental categories:

1. Theology; what is obligatory for a Muslim to believe about Allah, his angels, books, messengers and the Day of Judgment.

2. Ethics; the positive traits that a Muslim must obtain and the negative traits that he must stay away from.

3. Actions; the actions that a Muslim must perform.

Fiqh, in its specific meaning and what is discussed in books of fiqh, includes everything that has to do with all aspects of man's life. Everything that is studied today including foundational laws, city management, family relations, individual actions, management, politics, etc is found in the different sections of fiqh.

And maybe you need to have a bit of self-reflection: couldn't it be possible that this narrow, legalistic, "everything you'll ever need to know is HERE! In this book!" form of thinking could perhaps be part of the PROBLEM in the Islamic world? Especially since you can find basically anything you want in said book???

During the prophet Muhammad saw's last sermon, he said :" I leave behind me two things, the Qur'an and my example, the Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray". It is the Muslim's belief that Islam has provided guidance in every sphere of life, from individual cleanliness, rules of trade, to the structure and politics of the society. They don't separate it from from social, political, or economic life, since religion provides moral guidance for every action that a person takes....

[Muslima]

Anonymous wrote:Shias pray 3 times per day and Sunnis pray 5 - not all Muslims pray the same way.

All Muslims pray 5 prayers. The Shi’a acknowledge five daily prayers. However, they are allowed to pray them in three distinct times, not five; (BTW, though Sunnis have 5 distinct prayer times, they combine prayers too sometimes, i-e, lets say you a re at work or in the metro when it's time to pray & you wait till you get home to pray and it's already the time for the other prayer, you can combine them)

[Anonymous]

Muslima:

Members of all religions say that at heart their religion is perfect. We all hope people will judge our religion by its inherent truth and beauty. The problem we all have is that many of the followers are so flawed.

As Gandhi said of Christianity: I like Christ, but have problems with many Christians (paraphrase).

We can only judge other religions by what we see. Right now we see a lot of bad things going on in the name of religion: Yazadis stuck on a mountain top dying of dehydration because Muslims view them as devil worshippers, Catholic clerics involved in the cover up of child abuse, Buddhists (that most pacific of faiths!) involved in attrocities in Sri Lanka and Burma, and on and on.

We all live with this contradiction. The best thing to do is to own up to it. The world is full of contradiction. Africans were brought here in chains and forced to become Christians, but then many years later, the religion of the slave holders gave them the courage and imagery and sense of self worth needed to bring about integration.

Peace to you sister - it will never be resolved in this life time.

[Muslima]

Anonymous wrote:Muslima:

Members of all religions say that at heart their religion is perfect. We all hope people will judge our religion by its inherent truth and beauty. The problem we all have is that many of the followers are so flawed.

As Gandhi said of Christianity: I like Christ, but have problems with many Christians (paraphrase).

We can only judge other religions by what we see. Right now we see a lot of bad things going on in the name of religion: Yazadis stuck on a mountain top dying of dehydration because Muslims view them as devil worshippers, Catholic clerics involved in the cover up of child abuse, Buddhists (that most pacific of faiths!) involved in attrocities in Sri Lanka and Burma, and on and on.

We all live with this contradiction. The best thing to do is to own up to it. The world is full of contradiction. Africans were brought here in chains and forced to become Christians, but then many years later, the religion of the slave holders gave them the courage and imagery and sense of self worth needed to bring about integration.

Peace to you sister - it will never be resolved in this life time.

I agree! Peace be upon you too

[Anonymous]

Muslima wrote:
Fiqh, in its specific meaning and what is discussed in books of fiqh, includes everything that has to do with all aspects of man's life. Everything that is studied today including foundational laws, city management, family relations, individual actions, management, politics, etc is found in the different sections of fiqh.

...

During the prophet Muhammad saw's last sermon, he said :" I leave behind me two things, the Qur'an and my example, the Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray". It is the Muslim's belief that Islam has provided guidance in every sphere of life, from individual cleanliness, rules of trade, to the structure and politics of the society. They don't separate it from from social, political, or economic life, since religion provides moral guidance for every action that a person takes....

First of all, you didn't really respond to the pp's point, Muslima. Second, your response is a lot scarier than anything the pp asked you about. Do you not see how a religion that has specific guidelines on every aspect of life would just never be appealing to some people? And if I were to live in a democratic society with a Muslim majority, why WOULDN'T they vote into law these "rules" of their religion, since the religion does have guidelines on every aspect of life? This is something that right wing nuts are yelling about all the time, and you seem to be saying that their concerns are actually justified!! And, as we all know, a political system based on religion is just never going to work, no matter how awesome that religion is. We have seen it tried so so many times.

[Anonymous]

During the prophet Muhammad saw's last sermon, he said :" I leave behind me two things, the Qur'an and my example, the Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray". It is the Muslim's belief that Islam has provided guidance in every sphere of life, from individual cleanliness, rules of trade, to the structure and politics of the society. They don't separate it from from social, political, or economic life, since religion provides moral guidance for every action that a person takes....

[Muslima]

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:
Fiqh, in its specific meaning and what is discussed in books of fiqh, includes everything that has to do with all aspects of man's life. Everything that is studied today including foundational laws, city management, family relations, individual actions, management, politics, etc is found in the different sections of fiqh.

...

During the prophet Muhammad saw's last sermon, he said :" I leave behind me two things, the Qur'an and my example, the Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray". It is the Muslim's belief that Islam has provided guidance in every sphere of life, from individual cleanliness, rules of trade, to the structure and politics of the society. They don't separate it from from social, political, or economic life, since religion provides moral guidance for every action that a person takes....

First of all, you didn't really respond to the pp's point, Muslima. Second, your response is a lot scarier than anything the pp asked you about. Do you not see how a religion that has specific guidelines on every aspect of life would just never be appealing to some people? And if I were to live in a democratic society with a Muslim majority, why WOULDN'T they vote into law these "rules" of their religion, since the religion does have guidelines on every aspect of life? This is something that right wing nuts are yelling about all the time, and you seem to be saying that their concerns are actually justified!! And, as we all know, a political system based on religion is just never going to work, no matter how awesome that religion is. We have seen it tried so so many times.

It doesn't have to appeal to you. It appeals to the people who follow said religion and that is why they choose that religion for themselves. But let me clear something else, as far as Non-Muslims living under Islamic law, I guess what you don't know is that under Islamic Law, other faith communities have be governed by their own Law. There is freedom of religion under Islamic law you know, people are free to practise their faith, including religious law. Additionally, all Islamic obligations that do apply to Muslims are not applied to them.

Now, it is the belief of Muslims that Islam is the perfect way of life, I guess that's why anyone would choose a religion. Does it mean that we want to apply shariah law all over the world? Heck no, I don't believe shariah law can be applied or should be applied everywhere, and that is the difference between a regular muslim and those right wingers you're talking about ....

[Anonymous]

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:
Fiqh, in its specific meaning and what is discussed in books of fiqh, includes everything that has to do with all aspects of man's life. Everything that is studied today including foundational laws, city management, family relations, individual actions, management, politics, etc is found in the different sections of fiqh.

...

During the prophet Muhammad saw's last sermon, he said :" I leave behind me two things, the Qur'an and my example, the Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray". It is the Muslim's belief that Islam has provided guidance in every sphere of life, from individual cleanliness, rules of trade, to the structure and politics of the society. They don't separate it from from social, political, or economic life, since religion provides moral guidance for every action that a person takes....

First of all, you didn't really respond to the pp's point, Muslima. Second, your response is a lot scarier than anything the pp asked you about. Do you not see how a religion that has specific guidelines on every aspect of life would just never be appealing to some people? And if I were to live in a democratic society with a Muslim majority, why WOULDN'T they vote into law these "rules" of their religion, since the religion does have guidelines on every aspect of life? This is something that right wing nuts are yelling about all the time, and you seem to be saying that their concerns are actually justified!! And, as we all know, a political system based on religion is just never going to work, no matter how awesome that religion is. We have seen it tried so so many times.

It doesn't have to appeal to you. It appeals to the people who follow said religion and that is why they choose that religion for themselves. But let me clear something else, as far as Non-Muslims living under Islamic law, I guess what you don't know is that under Islamic Law, other faith communities have be governed by their own Law. There is freedom of religion under Islamic law you know, people are free to practise their faith, including religious law. Additionally, all Islamic obligations that do apply to Muslims are not applied to them.

Now, it is the belief of Muslims that Islam is the perfect way of life, I guess that's why anyone would choose a religion. Does it mean that we want to apply shariah law all over the world? Heck no, I don't believe shariah law can be applied or should be applied everywhere, and that is the difference between a regular muslim and those right wingers you're talking about ....

You just don't get it. You call Islam "perfect" and then you make it sound like a disaster.

Different laws for different people? NOT PERFECT!

Further, do you believe that Shariah law should be applied anywhere? And where would that be?

[Muslima]

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:
Fiqh, in its specific meaning and what is discussed in books of fiqh, includes everything that has to do with all aspects of man's life. Everything that is studied today including foundational laws, city management, family relations, individual actions, management, politics, etc is found in the different sections of fiqh.

...

During the prophet Muhammad saw's last sermon, he said :" I leave behind me two things, the Qur'an and my example, the Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray". It is the Muslim's belief that Islam has provided guidance in every sphere of life, from individual cleanliness, rules of trade, to the structure and politics of the society. They don't separate it from from social, political, or economic life, since religion provides moral guidance for every action that a person takes....

First of all, you didn't really respond to the pp's point, Muslima. Second, your response is a lot scarier than anything the pp asked you about. Do you not see how a religion that has specific guidelines on every aspect of life would just never be appealing to some people? And if I were to live in a democratic society with a Muslim majority, why WOULDN'T they vote into law these "rules" of their religion, since the religion does have guidelines on every aspect of life? This is something that right wing nuts are yelling about all the time, and you seem to be saying that their concerns are actually justified!! And, as we all know, a political system based on religion is just never going to work, no matter how awesome that religion is. We have seen it tried so so many times.

It doesn't have to appeal to you. It appeals to the people who follow said religion and that is why they choose that religion for themselves. But let me clear something else, as far as Non-Muslims living under Islamic law, I guess what you don't know is that under Islamic Law, other faith communities have be governed by their own Law. There is freedom of religion under Islamic law you know, people are free to practise their faith, including religious law. Additionally, all Islamic obligations that do apply to Muslims are not applied to them.

Now, it is the belief of Muslims that Islam is the perfect way of life, I guess that's why anyone would choose a religion. Does it mean that we want to apply shariah law all over the world? Heck no, I don't believe shariah law can be applied or should be applied everywhere, and that is the difference between a regular muslim and those right wingers you're talking about ....

You just don't get it. You call Islam "perfect" and then you make it sound like a disaster.

Different laws for different people? NOT PERFECT!

Further, do you believe that Shariah law should be applied anywhere? And where would that be?

I believe it is perfect, that's why I choose to be a Muslim.Yes different laws for different people is totally Perfect in my book when we are talking about Shariah Law, why would a Chrisitan want to be ruled under a law they dont believe it? Muslims and Non-Muslims are equal in front of the law when it concerns general matters, but when it comes to religious matters that would follow Islamic law, the non-muslims would be judged by their own law, not the islamic one! Shariah Law can be applied anywhere people choose it for themselves.

[Anonymous]

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:
Fiqh, in its specific meaning and what is discussed in books of fiqh, includes everything that has to do with all aspects of man's life. Everything that is studied today including foundational laws, city management, family relations, individual actions, management, politics, etc is found in the different sections of fiqh.

...

During the prophet Muhammad saw's last sermon, he said :" I leave behind me two things, the Qur'an and my example, the Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray". It is the Muslim's belief that Islam has provided guidance in every sphere of life, from individual cleanliness, rules of trade, to the structure and politics of the society. They don't separate it from from social, political, or economic life, since religion provides moral guidance for every action that a person takes....

First of all, you didn't really respond to the pp's point, Muslima. Second, your response is a lot scarier than anything the pp asked you about. Do you not see how a religion that has specific guidelines on every aspect of life would just never be appealing to some people? And if I were to live in a democratic society with a Muslim majority, why WOULDN'T they vote into law these "rules" of their religion, since the religion does have guidelines on every aspect of life? This is something that right wing nuts are yelling about all the time, and you seem to be saying that their concerns are actually justified!! And, as we all know, a political system based on religion is just never going to work, no matter how awesome that religion is. We have seen it tried so so many times.

It doesn't have to appeal to you. It appeals to the people who follow said religion and that is why they choose that religion for themselves. But let me clear something else, as far as Non-Muslims living under Islamic law, I guess what you don't know is that under Islamic Law, other faith communities have be governed by their own Law. There is freedom of religion under Islamic law you know, people are free to practise their faith, including religious law. Additionally, all Islamic obligations that do apply to Muslims are not applied to them.

Now, it is the belief of Muslims that Islam is the perfect way of life, I guess that's why anyone would choose a religion. Does it mean that we want to apply shariah law all over the world? Heck no, I don't believe shariah law can be applied or should be applied everywhere, and that is the difference between a regular muslim and those right wingers you're talking about ....

You just don't get it. You call Islam "perfect" and then you make it sound like a disaster.

Different laws for different people? NOT PERFECT!

Further, do you believe that Shariah law should be applied anywhere? And where would that be?

I believe it is perfect, that's why I choose to be a Muslim.Yes different laws for different people is totally Perfect in my book when we are talking about Shariah Law, why would a Chrisitan want to be ruled under a law they dont believe it? Muslims and Non-Muslims are equal in front of the law when it concerns general matters, but when it comes to religious matters that would follow Islamic law, the non-muslims would be judged by their own law, not the islamic one! Shariah Law can be applied anywhere people choose it for themselves.

Qu'ran 9:29 wrote:Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

Jizya is a kind of "protection" tax. The same tax the Islamic State is demanding that Christians pay or face death. They are being good Muslims doing exactly what the Qu'ran tells them to do. Non-Muslims must be "humbled".

[Muslima]

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:
Fiqh, in its specific meaning and what is discussed in books of fiqh, includes everything that has to do with all aspects of man's life. Everything that is studied today including foundational laws, city management, family relations, individual actions, management, politics, etc is found in the different sections of fiqh.

...

During the prophet Muhammad saw's last sermon, he said :" I leave behind me two things, the Qur'an and my example, the Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray". It is the Muslim's belief that Islam has provided guidance in every sphere of life, from individual cleanliness, rules of trade, to the structure and politics of the society. They don't separate it from from social, political, or economic life, since religion provides moral guidance for every action that a person takes....

First of all, you didn't really respond to the pp's point, Muslima. Second, your response is a lot scarier than anything the pp asked you about. Do you not see how a religion that has specific guidelines on every aspect of life would just never be appealing to some people? And if I were to live in a democratic society with a Muslim majority, why WOULDN'T they vote into law these "rules" of their religion, since the religion does have guidelines on every aspect of life? This is something that right wing nuts are yelling about all the time, and you seem to be saying that their concerns are actually justified!! And, as we all know, a political system based on religion is just never going to work, no matter how awesome that religion is. We have seen it tried so so many times.

It doesn't have to appeal to you. It appeals to the people who follow said religion and that is why they choose that religion for themselves. But let me clear something else, as far as Non-Muslims living under Islamic law, I guess what you don't know is that under Islamic Law, other faith communities have be governed by their own Law. There is freedom of religion under Islamic law you know, people are free to practise their faith, including religious law. Additionally, all Islamic obligations that do apply to Muslims are not applied to them.

Now, it is the belief of Muslims that Islam is the perfect way of life, I guess that's why anyone would choose a religion. Does it mean that we want to apply shariah law all over the world? Heck no, I don't believe shariah law can be applied or should be applied everywhere, and that is the difference between a regular muslim and those right wingers you're talking about ....

You just don't get it. You call Islam "perfect" and then you make it sound like a disaster.

Different laws for different people? NOT PERFECT!

Further, do you believe that Shariah law should be applied anywhere? And where would that be?

I believe it is perfect, that's why I choose to be a Muslim.Yes different laws for different people is totally Perfect in my book when we are talking about Shariah Law, why would a Chrisitan want to be ruled under a law they dont believe it? Muslims and Non-Muslims are equal in front of the law when it concerns general matters, but when it comes to religious matters that would follow Islamic law, the non-muslims would be judged by their own law, not the islamic one! Shariah Law can be applied anywhere people choose it for themselves.

Qu'ran 9:29 wrote:Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

Jizya is a kind of "protection" tax. The same tax the Islamic State is demanding that Christians pay or face death. They are being good Muslims doing exactly what the Qu'ran tells them to do. Non-Muslims must be "humbled".

Non Muslims have to pay Jizya because they are exempt from paying Zakat which is the tax that Muslims are obligated to pay. For those who don't know, the Jizya is a tax imposed on the Christians and Jews living under the protection of the Islamic state. However, it is not imposed on all Christians and Jews. It is only imposed on the men who have attained puberty. So therefore it is not imposed on the women and children.

The Jizya tax guarantees the Christians and Jews complete protection under the Islamic state. If an enemy country attacks the Islamic country, the Islamic country has a duty to defend the Christians and Jews and the Christians and Jews are not obliged to fight while the Muslims are! The Jizya is a tax levied on non-Muslims in lieu of military service which is compulsory for Muslims but not for non-Muslims. The amount of Jizya is much less than the Zakat, which is levied on Muslims only. The non-Muslims paying Jizya are exempt from compulsory military service in a Muslim State but were entitled to full protection.

Muslims also have to pay a yearly tax called Zakat that the Christians & Jews do not pay. Zakat is binding on property, and jewellery. Zakat should also be paid in the form of food as well. The Jizya is not binding on the property of the Christians and Jews.

So ye, Jizya actually brings equality. Since the Muslims are obliged to pay Zakah, then why cant non-Muslims pay Jizya? That brings equality between the two.

[Anonymous]

Muslima, under Shariah, would a Muslim be allowed to convert to Christianity and leave Islam?

[Anonymous]

Here are the differences between Jizya and Zakat, according to Wikipedia:

Zakat
obligatory upon Muslims
net worth of assets must exceed the Nisab (excess money for personal need) for Zakat to be obligatory
only payable on assets continuously owned over one lunar year that are in excess of the Nisab
the amount of Zakat paid is fixed and specified by Sharee'ah
paid only by the owner of the assets himself/herself
refusal to pay Zakat has no specific punishment by Sharee'ah law in life; punishment is delayed to the end time[35]
should be paid seeking God's pleasure [Qur'an 30:39]


Jizya
obligatory upon Dhimmis
required even if the Dhimmi's wealth or property does not exceed Nisab
paid according to a contract, but usually paid yearly regardless of Nisab
the amount paid is not fixed or specified by Sharee'ah, but is at least one gold Dinar with no maximum amount [32][33]
paid by all able-bodied adult males of military age and affording power[34]
refusal to pay Jizya is considered a breach of The Dhimma contract; as a consequence the Dhimmi's blood (life) and assets would become permissible[36]
is a tax on non-Muslims.[37]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakat


Once again, what Muslims *claim* about Islam is different from what is actually practiced around the world. Jizya has often been used as an excuse to confiscate Christian and minority property in an unfair way.

Separating people into different groups under the law is, and always will be, a lousy idea. Ever heard of "separate but equal?" Segregation laws? And guess what, people enforcing those laws always had some rationale that it was "fair" or "better for everyone." This type of system invites inequality, discrimination, and worse. This, by itself, should be enough to convince a person that Islam is not perfect. No religion should be dictating laws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Muslima, under Shariah, would a Muslim be allowed to convert to Christianity and leave Islam?

Here is the wikipedia article about an Iranian American citizen who converted from Islam to Christianity who is in jail for doing that in Iran:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saeed_Abedini

He also has a website run by his Iranian origin wife who lives in the US with their children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here are the differences between Jizya and Zakat, according to Wikipedia:

Zakat
obligatory upon Muslims
net worth of assets must exceed the Nisab (excess money for personal need) for Zakat to be obligatory
only payable on assets continuously owned over one lunar year that are in excess of the Nisab
the amount of Zakat paid is fixed and specified by Sharee'ah
paid only by the owner of the assets himself/herself
refusal to pay Zakat has no specific punishment by Sharee'ah law in life; punishment is delayed to the end time[35]
should be paid seeking God's pleasure [Qur'an 30:39]


Jizya
obligatory upon Dhimmis
required even if the Dhimmi's wealth or property does not exceed Nisab
paid according to a contract, but usually paid yearly regardless of Nisab
the amount paid is not fixed or specified by Sharee'ah, but is at least one gold Dinar with no maximum amount [32][33]
paid by all able-bodied adult males of military age and affording power[34]
refusal to pay Jizya is considered a breach of The Dhimma contract; as a consequence the Dhimmi's blood (life) and assets would become permissible[36]
is a tax on non-Muslims.[37]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakat


Once again, what Muslims *claim* about Islam is different from what is actually practiced around the world. Jizya has often been used as an excuse to confiscate Christian and minority property in an unfair way.

Separating people into different groups under the law is, and always will be, a lousy idea. Ever heard of "separate but equal?" Segregation laws? And guess what, people enforcing those laws always had some rationale that it was "fair" or "better for everyone." This type of system invites inequality, discrimination, and worse. This, by itself, should be enough to convince a person that Islam is not perfect. No religion should be dictating laws.

I don't even know where to begin.

So I'll just type.

I couldn't even get through the Quaran "guidelines" above. WHO has time to familiarize him/herself with those rules anyway? If you have that much time, then spend it with your kids or with your friends or with your spouse!

omg, folks! It's amazing to me just HOW MUCH people want to be told what to do every second of their lives!

Who doesn't see that?

Religion is control over the masses, and it's the power behind these so-called governments.

yikes! Get me off this thread! My head's spinning.