If you or someone you know is anti-Islam, Why?

[Anonymous]

What is this? A strip joint that wants to safeguard the religion of Muslim man by sparing them booze and lap dances?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"The peaceful minority is irrelevant."

It's a peaceful majority, but yes they have made themselves irrelevant by not denouncing the fundamentalists who have hijacked their religion and their culture.

Sigh. The moderator is going to come on and tell you it's pointless to expect peaceful Muslims to demonstrate or otherwise protest IS because (a) IS doesn't care what other Muslims, or you, think, and (b) IS isn't under any central Islamic authority.

I actually posted in Feedback (after the moderator locked a thread about this) that IS does have to worry about public opinion, because it does need at least the tacit support of non-Wahhabi Sunnis in the area--IS only represented 10% of Mosul when it captured that city. He deleted my thread. Other points are that Saudi opinion matters because they are also Wahhabis and there are some questions about financial links. So I don't agree with the moderator that Muslims or anybody else should just sit on their hands.

I have actually met a few fanatical Muslims in the Seattle area many years ago. That area seems ripe with them. I can tell you many move back to their countries because they can not stand to be in the US or around moderate or liberal Muslims like me. They don't care one bit about what US Muslims think of them. They think we sold out to the US.

[Anonymous]

No one can point out in a concise way how Islam is peaceful. Hit the highlights please. I'd like it in a 10 commandments fashion if at all possible. And I do not mean this in a disrespectful manner. No one can seem to do this without going so DEEP into something that frankly, I would love to get a grasp of - I don't need 85 paragraphs of explanation.

What I do not seem to understand (and I am NOT the same poster whose thread was shut down earlier about "beheading", although I am Catholic) is how in 2014 a religion that claims to be a peaceful, loving religion can spawn such violence, hatred and warfare and such extremists.

For the record, I disagree with that beheading post being shut down.

While I do not agree with the poster comparing the beheadings to the pedophilia within the Catholic Church, I do agree with his or her questioning religious authorities to speak out about what is happening.

Yes, The Westboro Baptists are hate mongers and dreadful. Terrible, terrible people. Yet they simply protest and spew their vile viewpoints. To my knowledge they haven't killed anyone. They have not beheaded anyone. According to Wikipedia they have anywhere from 20-80 members.

According to CNN ISIS has approximately 31,500 members as of September 11th and is growing - they are armed - they have beheaded three people and have another on their agenda to kill next. This is of course only all we know about via YouTube. Who knows how many these monsters have raped and killed? Check the Twitter pages - there is a link at the end of my post. They like to brag about their savagery all in the name of Allah.

God Bless the WOMEN of the YPG and PKK. Did you know that they are a supreme threat to ISIS because Muslim men think they won't go to heaven if they are killed by a woman??!?! OH the hypocrisy!

To say that American Muslims view ISIS the same way that American Christians view Westboro as ISIS is patently WRONG when ISIS is actively recruiting members in the west. You can Google that. Heaven forbid a link to a conservative website is posted on DCUM.

It's already been noted that the executioner in the beheadings is from the UK. ISIS is growing and active and to ask someone of Muslim faith to speak out about it is not an insult. In fact, I am shocked that we haven't heard anything yet other that how wonderful Islam is.

Take a look at this link. Then look at who this person follows and his followers (the ones that are in English of course).

And there is the answer to your question WHY. I am sure my post will be deleted before Adhan.

https://twitter.com/Abuizzadeen1924

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one can point out in a concise way how Islam is peaceful. Hit the highlights please. I'd like it in a 10 commandments fashion if at all possible. And I do not mean this in a disrespectful manner. No one can seem to do this without going so DEEP into something that frankly, I would love to get a grasp of - I don't need 85 paragraphs of explanation.

My view only. Islam would consider itself a religion that brings inner peace between man and God and among Muslims. Apart from the initial conquest period of Islam--which was pretty much in line with the standard tribal warfare of the Arabian peninsula at the time, Islam had a pretty peaceful development, if we are focusing on the nonspiritual side. People very much preferred to devote themselves to making a living--Islam is very free enterprise friendly. Because of the large amount of strategic land initially conquered, the Islamic caliphates were rich and devoted much of the funds to stunning architecture, public works like sewers and hospitals, and learning. This was the period when Arabs made significant advances in science and medicine.

What I do not seem to understand (and I am NOT the same poster whose thread was shut down earlier about "beheading", although I am Catholic) is how in 2014 a religion that claims to be a peaceful, loving religion can spawn such violence, hatred and warfare and such extremists.

Arabs have a complex relationship with religion. Many are not religious in the sense of following the five pillars of Islam, all of which relate to religious practices, not belief (other than the first pillar, which sets down the one absolute belief of Islam: There is no god, but God and Muhammed is His prophet." However, almost everyone is raised to show utmost respect for pious people, including those who just claim to be.

Socially, it is very difficult to criticize religious people and their beliefs except among close friends. At the same time, you are dealing with societies that are not really democratic and where political speech is not really free. Given this, the one way of voicing dissent publicly of regimes was to do it through the guise of religious sermons, which governments are loath to shut down. Joining a mosque then can be a political outlet.

It does not help that religious eduction is nothing like what you experienced in Catholicism where you were educated in the various doctrines and the reasoning behind them and were encouraged to ask questions. Rather, religious education is first about memorizing the Koran. Then you learn about hadith--sayings of the prophet. There are thousands of these, many dubious, although there is a system for classifying those that are more reliable then others.

All of this is in seventh century Arabic. Like all languages, Arabic has moved on and many of the words are very obscure and can be interpreted in many ways. Islamic authorities and teachers are generally very poorly educated and are capable of coming up with completely inane interpretations, that they insist are absolutely correct and must be followed. They do not encourage questions; they wouldn't be able answer them to the satisfaction of any reasonably intelligent pupil.Their congregations, who have not been schooled in critical thinking but are bred to respect these teachers, accept everything they say blindly.

The situation is rife for cynical politicians who are then in a position to pretty easily manipulate these captive audiences for their own ends, which is usually enhancing their own power. We should also factor in the economic stress of many of these people. These same politicians (often funded with money from abroad) expand their sphere of influence by providing social services like clinics and, yes, even paying for weddings (an otherwise large but necessary cost in the Arab world that can put marriage out of reach for many men--groom pays), ingratiating themselves further with a vulnerable population.

Also bear in mind these young men feel disenfranchised, powerless, and poor. The politicians promise them they will be in power, receive pay, they will get wives (captives), or otherwise go to paradise if they fight. They can make up whatever they want and pass it off as something the prophet said to exhort them. Also, I believe the aspects about women are very appealing as well. The politicians shrewdly realize that these men feel themselves oppressed. What better for the oppressed to feel their power restored than to oppress someone with even fewer rights. That is why all the most oppressive initial rulings are also about women. They aren't even very Islamic.

I hope this was not to long but in sum this isn't about religion; it is about using religion as a political tool to co-opt vulnerable young men who will do the fighting you need done to come to power.

For the record, I disagree with that beheading post being shut down.

While I do not agree with the poster comparing the beheadings to the pedophilia within the Catholic Church, I do agree with his or her questioning religious authorities to speak out about what is happening.

Yes, The Westboro Baptists are hate mongers and dreadful. Terrible, terrible people. Yet they simply protest and spew their vile viewpoints. To my knowledge they haven't killed anyone. They have not beheaded anyone. According to Wikipedia they have anywhere from 20-80 members.

Westboro Baptist isn't a good comparison. The Klan in the twenties, which had at it's core white men who felt threatened economically by blacks and Catholic European immigrants, is a better one. They too committed their execrable acts with a cloak of religion--remember the crosses? The US federal government, however, was much stronger than the Iraqi government and was able to shut the Klan down. Lynching was their form of beheading.)

According to CNN ISIS has approximately 31,500 members as of September 11th and is growing - they are armed - they have beheaded three people and have another on their agenda to kill next. This is of course only all we know about via YouTube. Who knows how many these monsters have raped and killed? Check the Twitter pages - there is a link at the end of my post. They like to brag about their savagery all in the name of Allah.

God Bless the WOMEN of the YPG and PKK. Did you know that they are a supreme threat to ISIS because Muslim men think they won't go to heaven if they are killed by a woman??!?! OH the hypocrisy!

A man not being eligible for salvation because he was killed by a woman is an example of some of the made up Islam ISIS espouses.

To say that American Muslims view ISIS the same way that American Christians view Westboro as ISIS is patently WRONG when ISIS is actively recruiting members in the west. You can Google that. Heaven forbid a link to a conservative website is posted on DCUM.

It's already been noted that the executioner in the beheadings is from the UK. ISIS is growing and active and to ask someone of Muslim faith to speak out about it is not an insult. In fact, I am shocked that we haven't heard anything yet other that how wonderful Islam is.

Al Qaeda also attracted many from the west. These tended to be the dregs of society, men who even their mothers have a hard time loving. Basically thugs, with the occasional very naive person interested in adventure. ISIS is attracting the same dregs I too wish the Arab world in general would take a stronger stand against these thugs who have hijacked and distorted Islam to justify a power grab of Iraq.

Arab governments have not said much, because they have high unemployment among young men and the power and riches ISIS offers is very tempting to this pool of disenfranchised. They also silently resent the governments and the governments are afraid that criticizing ISIS could cause outbreaks of violence within their own boundaries. The smartest Muslims, the leaders of society, aren't really all that into religion. They can't speak up and say how unIslamic the group really is because they can't rebut all the thousands of hadith that will be hurled back at them justifying it. And the moderate religious people simply aren't that smart or courageous enough.

Still, the lack of intellectual and political courage here is disappointing.

Take a look at this link. Then look at who this person follows and his followers (the ones that are in English of course).

And there is the answer to your question WHY. I am sure my post will be deleted before Adhan.

https://twitter.com/Abuizzadeen1924

[Anonymous]

However recent events, starting with the 9/11 attack on the US by mostly Saudi nationals, proved that the Saudi dogma has not only created an environment hostile to peaceful coexistence in Arab and Muslim societies, but poses a dire threat to Western democratic values and way of life. Additionally, the West has become more informed that Islam is a value system which controls every aspect of its adherents’ lives, perceptions and actions, as opposed to a benign non-Muslim voluntary belief system which affects only peoples’ spirituality.

Despite the West’s increased awareness of Islam, its restrictive nature and its incompatibility with democratic values, Western governments continue to employ a diplomatic approach of compromise and appeasement toward Arab and other Muslim regimes. However, the repeated failures of this approach, which is interpreted as weakness by Arab regimes and extremists alike, have forced Western governments to use military might to defend their societies and values against increasing threats currently posed by rising Sunni Arab radicals and their sympathizers.

The use of brute force by Western governments may deal an immediate blow to terrorists like IS, but unless the root causes of Muslim terrorism are eradicated, military action will only address the symptoms. This strategy will allow lethal ideologues to revive their movements and continue their quest for the destruction of Western civilization. The root causes of Muslim Arab (and other Muslims’) violence and intolerance lie in their religious texts and in the manner that ruling autocracies use religion to suppress their populations and to perpetuate their absolute regimes.

Confronting and defeating lethal Arab ideologues, their breeders and financiers is not only in the West’s best interests, but more so in the best interest of the Arab people, especially the aspiring youth population, women, Christians, Muslim minorities and the rising numbers of liberal leaning groups.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:However recent events, starting with the 9/11 attack on the US by mostly Saudi nationals, proved that the Saudi dogma has not only created an environment hostile to peaceful coexistence in Arab and Muslim societies, but poses a dire threat to Western democratic values and way of life. Additionally, the West has become more informed that Islam is a value system which controls every aspect of its adherents’ lives, perceptions and actions, as opposed to a benign non-Muslim voluntary belief system which affects only peoples’ spirituality.

I posted this in response to your post in the Politics Forum, but I'll do the same here as well:

I am tempted to delete your post because it is obviously not your words. If you want to quote a source, please provide an acknowledgement of that source and, if possible, a link to it. Simply copying and pasting another's work in this manner is plagiarism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't know if she wants this but doubt it.

No men or children were affected. Seem to be only women. I doubt it is a disease. Seems like it only affects older women. I just don't understand why someone would do this voluntarily. There has to be extreme pressure to make someone want to dress all in black, from head to toe, covering the eyes except for slits, unable to see well, unable to move well. Isolated and segregated.

I just don't understand.

But why is it important that you understand it? It's not affecting you in any way. To you, it feels isolated and segregated. To her, it may feel protected and embraced. You are imposing your ideas of what is right on someone else's body. I see people to whose choice of clothing I object on a daily basis, but my ability to understand these choices is not a part of the picture.

Some Muslim women who wear the face covering wear it because they attract a lot of attention. I was at a mosque and a woman walked in and sat near us in the prayer area. She was covered from head to toe. She was the only woman who covered her face in a group of about 100. Since we were amongst women she too off her face veil. I couldn't believe my eyes. She was absolutely gorgeous with big, green eyes and long, brown hair. She was the type of woman that was so beautiful that even women would turn their heads to look at, sort of like a Paulina Porizkova except with green eyes. So -- I guess I don't blame her for wanting to avoid all that staring and attention. In Islam, we are supposed to dress modestyly to avoid attention.

I have never been to SA.

but this man has. Dr. Ali Alyami

Read his perspective

From - http://www.phyllis-chesler.com/699/american-muslim-hero-ali-alyami

America is my country. I am the father of an Iraq veteran Army officer. The women of my motherland, known as Saudi Arabia (most Saudis resent being called Saudis because that makes them the property of the ruling Saudi family), are among the most marginalized people on this planet. This does not mean Saudi women are weak or helpless. In fact, they are the most resilient people I know. Their misfortunes are the result of their government institutionalized discriminatory polices. Discrimination against Saudi women has very little to do with tradition and religion and more to do with politics and economics. Instead of meeting its obligations to all citizens, it has designated women as perpetual minors who must be fed and managed by their males relatives. In addition, it's easier for the ruling elites to divide people into gender, religious, regional and ethnic categories so they can turn people against each other and act as their problem solver and savior.

[Anonymous]

Anybody think this thread should be locked because it's just rehashing old arguments?

Anybody want to keep it open because you think it's still great?

Go over to the Which Islam thread and tell Jeff.

[Anonymous]

Quote from Winston Churchill - taken from the volume: Sir Winston Churchill; “The River War”, first edition, Volume II, pages 248-250, published by Longmans, Green & Company, 1899.

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as
dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many
countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce and insecurity of property
exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and
refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man
as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until
the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.


Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of
those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a
militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every
step, and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it (Islam)
has vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”

[Anonymous]

Can somebody please tell me why on earth Islam is being called "Mohammedanism"? It completely offensive to many Muslims as it implies we are followers of Muhammad first and we are not. If Churchill called Muslims Muhammedans then he was mistaken.