Have the teachers gotten worse over the years?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Obviously, there are good teachers and bad teachers now, and there were good teachers and bad teachers then.

But an argument I've heard that supports your theory is that back in the day, teaching was one of only a few acceptable career paths for smart women. Nowadays, there are million career paths for smart women. So presumably, at least some women who would have been teachers if they were born in 1945 are instead running companies or working as high level executives, lawyers, doctors, etc.

+1

I think this is true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they’re taking their sick leave as mental health days. You aren’t our employer so it isn’t your business.

I’m not your employer. But fraud with public funds is everyone’s business and mental health issues in people responsible for children should certainly concern us all.

So you’re concerned about teachers’ mental health now? Or should we all just suck it up so your kid doesn’t have to have a sub for the day? Which is it?

If you are experiencing mental health concerns so profound you cannot go about daily tasks such as your job, your doctor should be made aware and you should have no trouble getting documentation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So taking contracted sick leave is fraud? I took a sick day last week after a student attacked me and then their parent came after me in the parking lot after school. Mental heath days fall under sick days and my employer doesn’t require doctor’s notes. In fact my principal told me to take the day off. I don’t need your permission.

No one thinks you need my permission.

Other teachers in the thread are saying they’re taking their sick leave as personal time, and justifying it because they’re not happy with the regulations around it being paid out.

Fraud is trashy. And just as criminal as your students’ parent in the parking lot.

No, but you’re suggesting teachers get doctor’s notes for every sick day, that we need to prove to others that our sick leave is warranted. You’re taking a couple of people upthread and generalizing the entire profession as if now, you know what scammers we are.

The rare time I see teachers use their entire allotment of leave is usually the first three years with their own child, because of their illnesses. If you think your district allots too much paid sick leave, take it up with the school board.

Yes this is common in situations where there is reason to suspect fraud. The absenteeism rates of teachers suggests there may well be fraud taking place. Fraud with public money is a crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they’re taking their sick leave as mental health days. You aren’t our employer so it isn’t your business.

I’m not your employer. But fraud with public funds is everyone’s business and mental health issues in people responsible for children should certainly concern us all.

You’re embarrassing yourself, dear.

[Anonymous]

I am a teacher. Any one can teach. Your are given a curriculum, the answers, worksheets, the test, etc. literally, any one with the material can teach. So no, it’s not the teachers. But, it is also not just one thing. The devices were meant for distance learning, but yet they continued it. Take the devices away! Do you all even understand how much money it cost to purchase and repair these devices?!? They are a huge distraction. Kids have access to spell check, copy and pasting, ai, etc. they don’t need to learn the basics any more. Also, pre k in public schools are not as widely spread as it used to be. Most of those kids can’t afford quality daycare. Therefor, they come into K not knowing the basics and without a foundation to grow from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Up the thread a teacher already admitted to lying about sick leave because it’s not paid out generously enough for her (despite being comparably paid out to other public jobs) If teachers take the 1-3 personal days per contract and any sick days had a doctors note than I wouldn’t see a problem.

Treating professional like they work at McDonalds and need a doctors note every time they get laryngitis, flu, covid, etc. is so typical of the micromanagement the general public feels is appropriate. That’s making people waste a medical professional’s time when generally, self care at home is adequate.

You are taking the word of a couple of internet whack jobs who crow about exploiting their leave as gospel for the whole profession. Have some common sense.

They’re talking about committing fraud with taxdollars. Screwing over the McDonald’s CEO is not my concern, screwing over taxpayers is everyones concern. Particularly since the kind of teacher who accepts a job knowing the conditions of employment and then steals from taxpayers really doesn’t belong in a room with children.

I sincerely hope this is a troll. If not, seek help.

Using contracted leave isn't fraud. Anyone who uses more leave than is allotted takes that leave without pay. Nobody is stealing from the taxpayers. Full stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Up the thread a teacher already admitted to lying about sick leave because it’s not paid out generously enough for her (despite being comparably paid out to other public jobs) If teachers take the 1-3 personal days per contract and any sick days had a doctors note than I wouldn’t see a problem.

Treating professional like they work at McDonalds and need a doctors note every time they get laryngitis, flu, covid, etc. is so typical of the micromanagement the general public feels is appropriate. That’s making people waste a medical professional’s time when generally, self care at home is adequate.

You are taking the word of a couple of internet whack jobs who crow about exploiting their leave as gospel for the whole profession. Have some common sense.

They’re talking about committing fraud with taxdollars. Screwing over the McDonald’s CEO is not my concern, screwing over taxpayers is everyones concern. Particularly since the kind of teacher who accepts a job knowing the conditions of employment and then steals from taxpayers really doesn’t belong in a room with children.

I sincerely hope this is a troll. If not, seek help.

Using contracted leave isn't fraud. Anyone who uses more leave than is allotted takes that leave without pay. Nobody is stealing from the taxpayers. Full stop.

The poster described using sickleave inappropriately because it would not be paid out to her satisfaction upon retirement— despite the fact that those payout terms are the same for other public employees. Using sick leave for reasons other than being sick or caring for someone who is under certain circumstances is fraud. I’m sorry that upsets you, because I’m sure you’d like to consider yourself someone who is ethical and honest.

[Anonymous]

In some ways, they are better, with more guardrails in place- no blurred boundaries or sex with students or “hanging out” with students.
I wonder though if the good teachers are flocking to cyber charters or privates.

[Anonymous]

It’s all about the mismatch of expectations. When the expectation was an extremely secure job, with a fixed benefit pension, good public health benefits, and summers and breaks off, the teachers were able to present as solid professionals.

Now the expectations seem to have shifted and teachers want weeks off outside of breaks for off-season vacations, a week of catered lunch and presents, “workdays” throughout the calendar, and still all of the first paragraph benefits. On Reddit, they call this “choosing beggars” and its not a flattering or dignified archetype.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher. Any one can teach. Your are given a curriculum, the answers, worksheets, the test, etc. literally, any one with the material can teach. So no, it’s not the teachers. But, it is also not just one thing. The devices were meant for distance learning, but yet they continued it. Take the devices away! Do you all even understand how much money it cost to purchase and repair these devices?!? They are a huge distraction. Kids have access to spell check, copy and pasting, ai, etc. they don’t need to learn the basics any more. Also, pre k in public schools are not as widely spread as it used to be. Most of those kids can’t afford quality daycare. Therefor, they come into K not knowing the basics and without a foundation to grow from.

Yeah. Teachers are literally given curriculum to teach, premade slides, pre pre made worksheets, recycles quizzes and tests, much of the work is on computer which is auto graded. Kids play ed games and watch YouTube in class- so I’m not understanding what exactly the “overwhelming workload” teachers are constantly complaining about is? They aren’t even making their own lessons, materials or quizzes/tests. Perhaps older grade teachers have some essays to grade- but that isn’t most of the time or most teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher. Any one can teach. Your are given a curriculum, the answers, worksheets, the test, etc. literally, any one with the material can teach. So no, it’s not the teachers. But, it is also not just one thing. The devices were meant for distance learning, but yet they continued it. Take the devices away! Do you all even understand how much money it cost to purchase and repair these devices?!? They are a huge distraction. Kids have access to spell check, copy and pasting, ai, etc. they don’t need to learn the basics any more. Also, pre k in public schools are not as widely spread as it used to be. Most of those kids can’t afford quality daycare. Therefor, they come into K not knowing the basics and without a foundation to grow from.

Yeah. Teachers are literally given curriculum to teach, premade slides, pre pre made worksheets, recycles quizzes and tests, much of the work is on computer which is auto graded. Kids play ed games and watch YouTube in class- so I’m not understanding what exactly the “overwhelming workload” teachers are constantly complaining about is? They aren’t even making their own lessons, materials or quizzes/tests. Perhaps older grade teachers have some essays to grade- but that isn’t most of the time or most teachers.

“Anyone can be a teacher” is exactly the attitude we need to get away from. We fell into this thinking and thought all teachers were interchangeable and just warm bodies to babysit, and provided them with a set curriculum down to individual slides and week by week timelines. We shouldn’t want to have our kids in glorified daycare from K-8th grade. Those years are important. We should have high standards and expectations of our teachers.

We also need to get back to having high expectations from children AND also accepting that not every child will have straight A’s. The vast majority of children can learn how to read, write, and do basic math. Yes, they should be doing math drills in 2nd and 3rd grade. Yes, it may be boring, and yes, they may fail some of them.

Another part of the problem is when values education went out the window. Yes, there is right and wrong, and we can and should teach children about it. Being a good citizen, being a good person… those are things we should be teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher. Any one can teach. Your are given a curriculum, the answers, worksheets, the test, etc. literally, any one with the material can teach. So no, it’s not the teachers. But, it is also not just one thing. The devices were meant for distance learning, but yet they continued it. Take the devices away! Do you all even understand how much money it cost to purchase and repair these devices?!? They are a huge distraction. Kids have access to spell check, copy and pasting, ai, etc. they don’t need to learn the basics any more. Also, pre k in public schools are not as widely spread as it used to be. Most of those kids can’t afford quality daycare. Therefor, they come into K not knowing the basics and without a foundation to grow from.

Yeah. Teachers are literally given curriculum to teach, premade slides, pre pre made worksheets, recycles quizzes and tests, much of the work is on computer which is auto graded. Kids play ed games and watch YouTube in class- so I’m not understanding what exactly the “overwhelming workload” teachers are constantly complaining about is? They aren’t even making their own lessons, materials or quizzes/tests. Perhaps older grade teachers have some essays to grade- but that isn’t most of the time or most teachers.

“Anyone can be a teacher” is exactly the attitude we need to get away from. We fell into this thinking and thought all teachers were interchangeable and just warm bodies to babysit, and provided them with a set curriculum down to individual slides and week by week timelines. We shouldn’t want to have our kids in glorified daycare from K-8th grade. Those years are important. We should have high standards and expectations of our teachers.

We also need to get back to having high expectations from children AND also accepting that not every child will have straight A’s. The vast majority of children can learn how to read, write, and do basic math. Yes, they should be doing math drills in 2nd and 3rd grade. Yes, it may be boring, and yes, they may fail some of them.

Another part of the problem is when values education went out the window. Yes, there is right and wrong, and we can and should teach children about it. Being a good citizen, being a good person… those are things we should be teaching.

Well, this is what teaching has become and teachers have been complacent in letting it happen. Part of the role of the teachers union is to advocate for best practice in the classroom for optimal educational outcomes. This is the last priority and never even brought up

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher. Any one can teach. Your are given a curriculum, the answers, worksheets, the test, etc. literally, any one with the material can teach. So no, it’s not the teachers. But, it is also not just one thing. The devices were meant for distance learning, but yet they continued it. Take the devices away! Do you all even understand how much money it cost to purchase and repair these devices?!? They are a huge distraction. Kids have access to spell check, copy and pasting, ai, etc. they don’t need to learn the basics any more. Also, pre k in public schools are not as widely spread as it used to be. Most of those kids can’t afford quality daycare. Therefor, they come into K not knowing the basics and without a foundation to grow from.

Yeah. Teachers are literally given curriculum to teach, premade slides, pre pre made worksheets, recycles quizzes and tests, much of the work is on computer which is auto graded. Kids play ed games and watch YouTube in class- so I’m not understanding what exactly the “overwhelming workload” teachers are constantly complaining about is? They aren’t even making their own lessons, materials or quizzes/tests. Perhaps older grade teachers have some essays to grade- but that isn’t most of the time or most teachers.

“Anyone can be a teacher” is exactly the attitude we need to get away from. We fell into this thinking and thought all teachers were interchangeable and just warm bodies to babysit, and provided them with a set curriculum down to individual slides and week by week timelines. We shouldn’t want to have our kids in glorified daycare from K-8th grade. Those years are important. We should have high standards and expectations of our teachers.

We also need to get back to having high expectations from children AND also accepting that not every child will have straight A’s. The vast majority of children can learn how to read, write, and do basic math. Yes, they should be doing math drills in 2nd and 3rd grade. Yes, it may be boring, and yes, they may fail some of them.

Another part of the problem is when values education went out the window. Yes, there is right and wrong, and we can and should teach children about it. Being a good citizen, being a good person… those are things we should be teaching.

Why are you dismissing a teachers experience!?!?!?!?!!

/s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher. Any one can teach. Your are given a curriculum, the answers, worksheets, the test, etc. literally, any one with the material can teach. So no, it’s not the teachers. But, it is also not just one thing. The devices were meant for distance learning, but yet they continued it. Take the devices away! Do you all even understand how much money it cost to purchase and repair these devices?!? They are a huge distraction. Kids have access to spell check, copy and pasting, ai, etc. they don’t need to learn the basics any more. Also, pre k in public schools are not as widely spread as it used to be. Most of those kids can’t afford quality daycare. Therefor, they come into K not knowing the basics and without a foundation to grow from.

Yeah. Teachers are literally given curriculum to teach, premade slides, pre pre made worksheets, recycles quizzes and tests, much of the work is on computer which is auto graded. Kids play ed games and watch YouTube in class- so I’m not understanding what exactly the “overwhelming workload” teachers are constantly complaining about is? They aren’t even making their own lessons, materials or quizzes/tests. Perhaps older grade teachers have some essays to grade- but that isn’t most of the time or most teachers.

“Anyone can be a teacher” is exactly the attitude we need to get away from. We fell into this thinking and thought all teachers were interchangeable and just warm bodies to babysit, and provided them with a set curriculum down to individual slides and week by week timelines. We shouldn’t want to have our kids in glorified daycare from K-8th grade. Those years are important. We should have high standards and expectations of our teachers.

We also need to get back to having high expectations from children AND also accepting that not every child will have straight A’s. The vast majority of children can learn how to read, write, and do basic math. Yes, they should be doing math drills in 2nd and 3rd grade. Yes, it may be boring, and yes, they may fail some of them.

Another part of the problem is when values education went out the window. Yes, there is right and wrong, and we can and should teach children about it. Being a good citizen, being a good person… those are things we should be teaching.

Until this is real, the profession will not regain respect. Which means, actually firing bad teachers.

The reason for the flawed soundbyte/panic headlines about a shortage is so teachers can continue to avoid accountability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher. Any one can teach. Your are given a curriculum, the answers, worksheets, the test, etc. literally, any one with the material can teach. So no, it’s not the teachers. But, it is also not just one thing. The devices were meant for distance learning, but yet they continued it. Take the devices away! Do you all even understand how much money it cost to purchase and repair these devices?!? They are a huge distraction. Kids have access to spell check, copy and pasting, ai, etc. they don’t need to learn the basics any more. Also, pre k in public schools are not as widely spread as it used to be. Most of those kids can’t afford quality daycare. Therefor, they come into K not knowing the basics and without a foundation to grow from.

Yeah. Teachers are literally given curriculum to teach, premade slides, pre pre made worksheets, recycles quizzes and tests, much of the work is on computer which is auto graded. Kids play ed games and watch YouTube in class- so I’m not understanding what exactly the “overwhelming workload” teachers are constantly complaining about is? They aren’t even making their own lessons, materials or quizzes/tests. Perhaps older grade teachers have some essays to grade- but that isn’t most of the time or most teachers.

“Anyone can be a teacher” is exactly the attitude we need to get away from. We fell into this thinking and thought all teachers were interchangeable and just warm bodies to babysit, and provided them with a set curriculum down to individual slides and week by week timelines. We shouldn’t want to have our kids in glorified daycare from K-8th grade. Those years are important. We should have high standards and expectations of our teachers.

We also need to get back to having high expectations from children AND also accepting that not every child will have straight A’s. The vast majority of children can learn how to read, write, and do basic math. Yes, they should be doing math drills in 2nd and 3rd grade. Yes, it may be boring, and yes, they may fail some of them.

Another part of the problem is when values education went out the window. Yes, there is right and wrong, and we can and should teach children about it. Being a good citizen, being a good person… those are things we should be teaching.

The bolded is an idea I'm interested in, because I actually don't know what the answer is. On the one hand, we can have high standards and give teachers a lot of flexibility in meeting their student's needs, but that probably means having fewer teachers. Higher standards are harder to reach, increasing pay might attract more qualified teachers, but it also means less money available to hire MORE teachers which reduces class sizes.

I'm not actually sure which is better. Smaller classes with worse teachers or larger classes with better teachers?