Low gpa strong SAT with strong math focus

[Anonymous]

In my experience from poking around Reddit College boards for a few years, it's doesn't seem like Ivies get too excited about competitive math kids or super advanced math kids. They can make math majors out of most kids who matriculate at their school. I have a daughter at an Ivy who is double majoring in math and many kids in the math department came to school having only taken Calc AB in high school (because this is all many high schools offer) and so they started with Calculus II (or even Calc I) in college and now 2 years later are doing very well as a math major.

Colleges really only need the math geniuses at the PhD level and they will import an entire class of these from other institutions when the time comes. They really don't need their own undergrads to be math whizzes. Colleges admit kids who are going to add to the campus and community. Doing math 3 years up doesn't really do this.

[Anonymous]

I agree with this, unfortunately. A pure math student needs to be one in a million to really have a lasting impact on campus and as an alum. Most schools would generally prefer to have someone either more creative or commercial, hoping they enhance the community now or donate a building in 20 years. I think some of the STEM and math camps do the same disservice as sports clubs/camps, by implying your kid has a talent that is in demand, when really, at the next level the schools just don't care unless the kid is a profound, genius-level talent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my experience from poking around Reddit College boards for a few years, it's doesn't seem like Ivies get too excited about competitive math kids or super advanced math kids. They can make math majors out of most kids who matriculate at their school. I have a daughter at an Ivy who is double majoring in math and many kids in the math department came to school having only taken Calc AB in high school (because this is all many high schools offer) and so they started with Calculus II (or even Calc I) in college and now 2 years later are doing very well as a math major.

Colleges really only need the math geniuses at the PhD level and they will import an entire class of these from other institutions when the time comes. They really don't need their own undergrads to be math whizzes. Colleges admit kids who are going to add to the campus and community. Doing math 3 years up doesn't really do this.

Tough love. Math is the easiest thing to excel at because it doesn't require special connections (except money for math camp, but colleges know enough to not be impressed by that). But it's also the least interesting thing because no one needs a human calculator, and math research (not "I wrote an expository paper at camp") is the hardest subject to do real esearch in. So there are a few superstars who do something interesting in math research in HS and go to Harvard or MIT, then the obvious tippy top HS math people who go to MIT, and then a lot of people who are stellar at math but that's just a checkbox for "likes math" and still needs the usual GPA, EC, leadership well-rounded stuff that math specialists are usually not competitive at due to brain type.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with this, unfortunately. A pure math student needs to be one in a million to really have a lasting impact on campus and as an alum. Most schools would generally prefer to have someone either more creative or commercial, hoping they enhance the community now or donate a building in 20 years. I think some of the STEM and math camps do the same disservice as sports clubs/camps, by implying your kid has a talent that is in demand, when really, at the next level the schools just don't care unless the kid is a profound, genius-level talent.

+++

But I don't think the math camps promote themselves the way sports clubs do. The math camps are run by mathematicians who want to have fun with kids during the summer, and share some joy with kids who are very isolated at home because math is so lonely. They aren't promoted as a hack to college admissions.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This was 2 years ago but my similar stat kid (3.3 GPA 1560 SAT) was rejected by every reach and target they applied to, including CMU, Hopkins, UVA, VaTech, and Purdue. Please talk to a college counselor and apply to at least three true safeties.

You misunderstood what is special about OP. SAT score is a small part of OP’s profile, and can be ignored. It’s the level of raw math talent OP possesses that makes her stand out. So yes your -dissimilar- kid was rejected at the above institutions. But not OP.

I don’t think it’s likely Stanford would take this kid. I think it’s even less likely any ivy would look at her application. But she has a real chance at CMU Hopkins Purdue. OP is not interested in lac, if she was, I would recommend Wellesley. These are institutions that are more willing to look beyond the numbers (though the standard is higher in terms of substance).

And many of us feel your advice is just bad. You are free to continue to give it and we are free to continue to point out it isn't connected to reality, particularly local reality.

BTW, I went to Hopkins and still work with current undergrads there. It isn't an option for a candidate in the bottom half of their class.

Why wouldn't it be an option for one of the top ~1000 or so female US students in mathematics. JHU doesn't even have a language requirement for their bachelor's degree, so some Cs in those subjects say very little about her ability to succeed at JHU.

Because she is also getting Bs in other classes and ranks in the bottom half of her class. That's a warning sign to most schools. Kid has ability but doesn't use it most of the time.

Too busy publishing research!

Far too many other kids with top notch stats and interesting ecs. No need to gamble.

I actually think the published research for this kid is not an advantage but a red flag.

If a high school junior already presented a paper at a legit math conference, she'd be talking to professors for admissions advice, not DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:(2016 grad) I had similar stats and similar hooks.

If she has several APs with mostly 5s and you're fine being full pay, look to the UK. I was a CS+Math applicant and didn't do well on Oxford's admissions test (which is offered at the British school in DC), but I got a conditional offer from Imperial where they had me take Cambridge's admissions test in the spring, and unconditional offers from Warwick, Edinburgh, and UCL. You can't apply to both Oxford and Cambridge in the same cycle.

The UK schools other than St. Andrews are through UCAS, which is a common application system that's much simpler than the common app. It asks for a 500 word-ish "why this major" essay and a recc from your guidance counselor and nothing else. When I applied you could only apply to 5 unis.

I focused on small schools in the US and had luck with Case Western in the EA round. For various reasons I didn't do a regular admission round that year and ended up applying to SLACs without engineering programs a couple years later. I ended up attending St. Olaf (which is on the larger end of SLACs) and loved my time there and especially the math department. It's a smaller college but has one of the largest undergraduate pure math programs in the country. Would make a great safety. I'd also suggest Carleton and Grinnell if she's willing to look at any SLACs, but those are probably reaches.

If she's committed to a large school, I think your best bet is large state universities that have great research reputations but 50% acceptance rates. University of Washington, University of Minnesota, University of Wisconsin, Ohio State, the UCs besides UCLA and Berkeley, University of Utah, UC Boulder etc. Math doesn't tend to have the kind of separate admissions process that engineering programs or CS often have.

College admissions are about ten times more competitive now than ten years ago. It’s nice you took the time to write this, but it’s completely useless.

Your approach is problematic nowadays.

In 2016, yes your case worked for UCs and other state us. UCs have been test blind for several years now, and they don't even look at test scores for the most part.

I am surprised that you never tried stem heavy schools like CMU and JHU. A hook like OP's would not be overlooked there.

OP said that she is not interested in LACs.

lol that you think Hopkins is accepting this kid. No wonder so many posters here are shocked when their kid is rejected, they are living in lalaland.

Why wouldn't they accept one of the top female math students in the US?

Top female math students are so rare that know one knows the story for them. Also, unless international admissions dries up due to Trump/Miller, international students mop the floor with American math students, girls who do math aren't as rare internationally.

[Anonymous]

A top female math student means she is taking graduate math classes while in high school. Or that caliber.

Even IMO golds are no longer guarantees to MIT nowadays.

ROSS/PROMYS is no way near a "top female math" student in the US.

I was told taking multi-var calc or linear alg is no big deal nowadays. very common among math-focused kids.

That research? Maybe. need more details on that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also have a strong math kid from a top private in a big city. He's also very un-balanced:
- top STEM grades but mid humanities grades (ranges from B- to A-).
- been to two summer camps from this group: ROSS/PROMYS/SuMAC/HCSSiM/SSP/BWSI/Simons - and won an award/recognition at one of these)
- 1550+ SAT (800M) - taken during fall of 10th grade. AP Calc BC score 5 (taken end of 10th grade)
- 3.8 GPA
- participated in research program during summer (but no published paper)
- took two college math classes (not dual enrollment, in actual college classes) and got 4.0 in both

He was rejected from Princeton early this round.

My kid is very strong in math, but everywhere/everyone I looked/asked, I was told yes, your child is very good in math, but there are many other kids that are also just as strong in math and have As in writing. And they also have amazing ECs, and amazing volunteers hours, and competition math acclodes, etc etc etc. You get the idea.

OP: your child's best advantage is that she's a girl; but her GPA will really hurt her. Making it to ROSS/PROMYS is great, but by no means a "sure in," even for a girl (I think the only ones nowadays close to that level are RSI and MIT Primes).

Where was her research published? Was she First Author? I think these can potentially give her an edge (ie first author, published in a recognized journal, etc).

Is a 3.8 bottom half of your kid’s senior class?

No - I don't know where that lands exactly, but definitely in the top 50% at our school

This is a huge difference then for OP to see. Good luck

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:(2016 grad) I had similar stats and similar hooks.

If she has several APs with mostly 5s and you're fine being full pay, look to the UK. I was a CS+Math applicant and didn't do well on Oxford's admissions test (which is offered at the British school in DC), but I got a conditional offer from Imperial where they had me take Cambridge's admissions test in the spring, and unconditional offers from Warwick, Edinburgh, and UCL. You can't apply to both Oxford and Cambridge in the same cycle.

The UK schools other than St. Andrews are through UCAS, which is a common application system that's much simpler than the common app. It asks for a 500 word-ish "why this major" essay and a recc from your guidance counselor and nothing else. When I applied you could only apply to 5 unis.

I focused on small schools in the US and had luck with Case Western in the EA round. For various reasons I didn't do a regular admission round that year and ended up applying to SLACs without engineering programs a couple years later. I ended up attending St. Olaf (which is on the larger end of SLACs) and loved my time there and especially the math department. It's a smaller college but has one of the largest undergraduate pure math programs in the country. Would make a great safety. I'd also suggest Carleton and Grinnell if she's willing to look at any SLACs, but those are probably reaches.

If she's committed to a large school, I think your best bet is large state universities that have great research reputations but 50% acceptance rates. University of Washington, University of Minnesota, University of Wisconsin, Ohio State, the UCs besides UCLA and Berkeley, University of Utah, UC Boulder etc. Math doesn't tend to have the kind of separate admissions process that engineering programs or CS often have.

College admissions are about ten times more competitive now than ten years ago. It’s nice you took the time to write this, but it’s completely useless.

Your approach is problematic nowadays.

In 2016, yes your case worked for UCs and other state us. UCs have been test blind for several years now, and they don't even look at test scores for the most part.

I am surprised that you never tried stem heavy schools like CMU and JHU. A hook like OP's would not be overlooked there.

OP said that she is not interested in LACs.

lol that you think Hopkins is accepting this kid. No wonder so many posters here are shocked when their kid is rejected, they are living in lalaland.

Why wouldn't they accept one of the top female math students in the US?

Top female math students are so rare that know one knows the story for them. Also, unless international admissions dries up due to Trump/Miller, international students mop the floor with American math students, girls who do math aren't as rare internationally.

I don't really believe this. Go on Reddit. Internationals by the hundreds talk endlessly about their math competitions (so many olympiads etc) and then report that they got a 780 on the math SAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:(2016 grad) I had similar stats and similar hooks.

If she has several APs with mostly 5s and you're fine being full pay, look to the UK. I was a CS+Math applicant and didn't do well on Oxford's admissions test (which is offered at the British school in DC), but I got a conditional offer from Imperial where they had me take Cambridge's admissions test in the spring, and unconditional offers from Warwick, Edinburgh, and UCL. You can't apply to both Oxford and Cambridge in the same cycle.

The UK schools other than St. Andrews are through UCAS, which is a common application system that's much simpler than the common app. It asks for a 500 word-ish "why this major" essay and a recc from your guidance counselor and nothing else. When I applied you could only apply to 5 unis.

I focused on small schools in the US and had luck with Case Western in the EA round. For various reasons I didn't do a regular admission round that year and ended up applying to SLACs without engineering programs a couple years later. I ended up attending St. Olaf (which is on the larger end of SLACs) and loved my time there and especially the math department. It's a smaller college but has one of the largest undergraduate pure math programs in the country. Would make a great safety. I'd also suggest Carleton and Grinnell if she's willing to look at any SLACs, but those are probably reaches.

If she's committed to a large school, I think your best bet is large state universities that have great research reputations but 50% acceptance rates. University of Washington, University of Minnesota, University of Wisconsin, Ohio State, the UCs besides UCLA and Berkeley, University of Utah, UC Boulder etc. Math doesn't tend to have the kind of separate admissions process that engineering programs or CS often have.

College admissions are about ten times more competitive now than ten years ago. It’s nice you took the time to write this, but it’s completely useless.

Your approach is problematic nowadays.

In 2016, yes your case worked for UCs and other state us. UCs have been test blind for several years now, and they don't even look at test scores for the most part.

I am surprised that you never tried stem heavy schools like CMU and JHU. A hook like OP's would not be overlooked there.

OP said that she is not interested in LACs.

lol that you think Hopkins is accepting this kid. No wonder so many posters here are shocked when their kid is rejected, they are living in lalaland.

Why wouldn't they accept one of the top female math students in the US?

Top female math students are so rare that know one knows the story for them. Also, unless international admissions dries up due to Trump/Miller, international students mop the floor with American math students, girls who do math aren't as rare internationally.

Very true. Girls at this level of math are very rare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are ways to augment this profile with professional counseling help. This is exactly the kind of case that requires professional guidance.

Only hire someone who has been an admissions officer in competitive selective schools in the recent past with great testimonials.

Good idea!

[Anonymous]

I am hoping OP would come back next year to share the results. This is an interesting case with highly uneven applicant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am hoping OP would come back next year to share the results. This is an interesting case with highly uneven applicant.

I will try my best to remember to post the results. I wish there was a way to pin posts to remind myself. I appreciate all the diverse comments I recieved. I know in the long run everything will work out. So thank you to everyone who responded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am hoping OP would come back next year to share the results. This is an interesting case with highly uneven applicant.

I will try my best to remember to post the results. I wish there was a way to pin posts to remind myself. I appreciate all the diverse comments I recieved. I know in the long run everything will work out. So thank you to everyone who responded.

Best wishes!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What kind of colleges should a student who has a gpa of 3.4 from a private school with 1550 SAT but strong math EC (multiple prestigious math camps and published research paper) and advanced math classes have a good shot at. She does not want to apply to LAC.

Need more info.

Why is her GPA low? Which grades were low? What are her grades in her math classes? Are those As?