Low gpa strong SAT with strong math focus

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was 2 years ago but my similar stat kid (3.3 GPA 1560 SAT) was rejected by every reach and target they applied to, including CMU, Hopkins, UVA, VaTech, and Purdue. Please talk to a college counselor and apply to at least three true safeties.

You misunderstood what is special about OP. SAT score is a small part of OP’s profile, and can be ignored. It’s the level of raw math talent OP possesses that makes her stand out. So yes your -dissimilar- kid was rejected at the above institutions. But not OP.

I don’t think it’s likely Stanford would take this kid. I think it’s even less likely any ivy would look at her application. But she has a real chance at CMU Hopkins Purdue. OP is not interested in lac, if she was, I would recommend Wellesley. These are institutions that are more willing to look beyond the numbers (though the standard is higher in terms of substance).

And many of us feel your advice is just bad. You are free to continue to give it and we are free to continue to point out it isn't connected to reality, particularly local reality.

BTW, I went to Hopkins and still work with current undergrads there. It isn't an option for a candidate in the bottom half of their class.

Why wouldn't it be an option for one of the top ~1000 or so female US students in mathematics. JHU doesn't even have a language requirement for their bachelor's degree, so some Cs in those subjects say very little about her ability to succeed at JHU.

Because she is also getting Bs in other classes and ranks in the bottom half of her class. That's a warning sign to most schools. Kid has ability but doesn't use it most of the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was 2 years ago but my similar stat kid (3.3 GPA 1560 SAT) was rejected by every reach and target they applied to, including CMU, Hopkins, UVA, VaTech, and Purdue. Please talk to a college counselor and apply to at least three true safeties.

You misunderstood what is special about OP. SAT score is a small part of OP’s profile, and can be ignored. It’s the level of raw math talent OP possesses that makes her stand out. So yes your -dissimilar- kid was rejected at the above institutions. But not OP.

I don’t think it’s likely Stanford would take this kid. I think it’s even less likely any ivy would look at her application. But she has a real chance at CMU Hopkins Purdue. OP is not interested in lac, if she was, I would recommend Wellesley. These are institutions that are more willing to look beyond the numbers (though the standard is higher in terms of substance).

And many of us feel your advice is just bad. You are free to continue to give it and we are free to continue to point out it isn't connected to reality, particularly local reality.

BTW, I went to Hopkins and still work with current undergrads there. It isn't an option for a candidate in the bottom half of their class.

Why wouldn't it be an option for one of the top ~1000 or so female US students in mathematics. JHU doesn't even have a language requirement for their bachelor's degree, so some Cs in those subjects say very little about her ability to succeed at JHU.

Because she is also getting Bs in other classes and ranks in the bottom half of her class. That's a warning sign to most schools. Kid has ability but doesn't use it most of the time.

Too busy publishing research!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was 2 years ago but my similar stat kid (3.3 GPA 1560 SAT) was rejected by every reach and target they applied to, including CMU, Hopkins, UVA, VaTech, and Purdue. Please talk to a college counselor and apply to at least three true safeties.

You misunderstood what is special about OP. SAT score is a small part of OP’s profile, and can be ignored. It’s the level of raw math talent OP possesses that makes her stand out. So yes your -dissimilar- kid was rejected at the above institutions. But not OP.

I don’t think it’s likely Stanford would take this kid. I think it’s even less likely any ivy would look at her application. But she has a real chance at CMU Hopkins Purdue. OP is not interested in lac, if she was, I would recommend Wellesley. These are institutions that are more willing to look beyond the numbers (though the standard is higher in terms of substance).

And many of us feel your advice is just bad. You are free to continue to give it and we are free to continue to point out it isn't connected to reality, particularly local reality.

BTW, I went to Hopkins and still work with current undergrads there. It isn't an option for a candidate in the bottom half of their class.

Why wouldn't it be an option for one of the top ~1000 or so female US students in mathematics. JHU doesn't even have a language requirement for their bachelor's degree, so some Cs in those subjects say very little about her ability to succeed at JHU.

Because she is also getting Bs in other classes and ranks in the bottom half of her class. That's a warning sign to most schools. Kid has ability but doesn't use it most of the time.

Too busy publishing research!

Far too many other kids with top notch stats and interesting ecs. No need to gamble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was 2 years ago but my similar stat kid (3.3 GPA 1560 SAT) was rejected by every reach and target they applied to, including CMU, Hopkins, UVA, VaTech, and Purdue. Please talk to a college counselor and apply to at least three true safeties.

You misunderstood what is special about OP. SAT score is a small part of OP’s profile, and can be ignored. It’s the level of raw math talent OP possesses that makes her stand out. So yes your -dissimilar- kid was rejected at the above institutions. But not OP.

I don’t think it’s likely Stanford would take this kid. I think it’s even less likely any ivy would look at her application. But she has a real chance at CMU Hopkins Purdue. OP is not interested in lac, if she was, I would recommend Wellesley. These are institutions that are more willing to look beyond the numbers (though the standard is higher in terms of substance).

And many of us feel your advice is just bad. You are free to continue to give it and we are free to continue to point out it isn't connected to reality, particularly local reality.

BTW, I went to Hopkins and still work with current undergrads there. It isn't an option for a candidate in the bottom half of their class.

Why wouldn't it be an option for one of the top ~1000 or so female US students in mathematics. JHU doesn't even have a language requirement for their bachelor's degree, so some Cs in those subjects say very little about her ability to succeed at JHU.

Because she is also getting Bs in other classes and ranks in the bottom half of her class. That's a warning sign to most schools. Kid has ability but doesn't use it most of the time.

Too busy publishing research!

Far too many other kids with top notch stats and interesting ecs. No need to gamble.

I actually think the published research for this kid is not an advantage but a red flag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was 2 years ago but my similar stat kid (3.3 GPA 1560 SAT) was rejected by every reach and target they applied to, including CMU, Hopkins, UVA, VaTech, and Purdue. Please talk to a college counselor and apply to at least three true safeties.

You misunderstood what is special about OP. SAT score is a small part of OP’s profile, and can be ignored. It’s the level of raw math talent OP possesses that makes her stand out. So yes your -dissimilar- kid was rejected at the above institutions. But not OP.

I don’t think it’s likely Stanford would take this kid. I think it’s even less likely any ivy would look at her application. But she has a real chance at CMU Hopkins Purdue. OP is not interested in lac, if she was, I would recommend Wellesley. These are institutions that are more willing to look beyond the numbers (though the standard is higher in terms of substance).

Here is a sumac kid, now at cmu as a freshman.
https://www.linkedin.com/mwlite/profile/in/raunakmondal1
- speaks 4 languages (so already higher than Op’s kid in language)
- high sat
- math awards
- volunteering
- coca cola semi finalist
-16 APs

OP: how does this kid stack up to yours?

They're obviously more accomplished, but considering OP's gender and the fact that they're applying to math rather than CS, this doesn't prove CMU is out of the question.

Also, cherry picking an exceptional student says nothing about the floor, only the ceiling. Ankan Bhattacharya was a US IMO member who went to OSU. Does that mean OSU is out of OP's DD's league as well?

No one will know more than the private school counselor which OP hasnt even asked yet. That said, a kid in the bottom half of any class is unlikely to get into most top schools, inc CMU.

And I didn’t cherry pick the example-kid. I googled Linkedin sumac (and maybe cmu but not sure) and this was the first kid who popped up.

Let me give you an example:

My kid was recruiting but is also a very high stats/whole package type of kid. When recruiting, kid had a preread over the summer at a time when no one else in kid’s year was applying (apps not open yet) BUT when preread results were shared with kid, coach said admissions said you have an incredibly high GPA for your HS. That means that kid is not just compared against kids applying that year to that school but to what they have historically seen from that school.

Unless OP has directly heard from the private HS that unhooked HS kids are accepted to top schools like x, y and z, I think it would be highly unlikely OP’s kid gets in

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was 2 years ago but my similar stat kid (3.3 GPA 1560 SAT) was rejected by every reach and target they applied to, including CMU, Hopkins, UVA, VaTech, and Purdue. Please talk to a college counselor and apply to at least three true safeties.

You misunderstood what is special about OP. SAT score is a small part of OP’s profile, and can be ignored. It’s the level of raw math talent OP possesses that makes her stand out. So yes your -dissimilar- kid was rejected at the above institutions. But not OP.

I don’t think it’s likely Stanford would take this kid. I think it’s even less likely any ivy would look at her application. But she has a real chance at CMU Hopkins Purdue. OP is not interested in lac, if she was, I would recommend Wellesley. These are institutions that are more willing to look beyond the numbers (though the standard is higher in terms of substance).

Here is a sumac kid, now at cmu as a freshman.
https://www.linkedin.com/mwlite/profile/in/raunakmondal1
- speaks 4 languages (so already higher than Op’s kid in language)
- high sat
- math awards
- volunteering
- coca cola semi finalist
-16 APs

OP: how does this kid stack up to yours?

They're obviously more accomplished, but considering OP's gender and the fact that they're applying to math rather than CS, this doesn't prove CMU is out of the question.

Also, cherry picking an exceptional student says nothing about the floor, only the ceiling. Ankan Bhattacharya was a US IMO member who went to OSU. Does that mean OSU is out of OP's DD's league as well?

No one will know more than the private school counselor which OP hasnt even asked yet. That said, a kid in the bottom half of any class is unlikely to get into most top schools, inc CMU.

And I didn’t cherry pick the example-kid. I googled Linkedin sumac (and maybe cmu but not sure) and this was the first kid who popped up.

Let me give you an example:

My kid was recruiting but is also a very high stats/whole package type of kid. When recruiting, kid had a preread over the summer at a time when no one else in kid’s year was applying (apps not open yet) BUT when preread results were shared with kid, coach said admissions said you have an incredibly high GPA for your HS. That means that kid is not just compared against kids applying that year to that school but to what they have historically seen from that school.

Unless OP has directly heard from the private HS that unhooked HS kids are accepted to top schools like x, y and z, I think it would be highly unlikely OP’s kid gets in

+1 The AO's definitely compare candidates longitudinally from the HS you apply from. Even at high school that don't rank, many top private high schools don't, AO's are able to figure out where kids fit by doing this. They have tons more data than parents can see from Naviance. Also agree with comments that the middling GPA with SAT and published research is more of a negative than a positive. Sounds like a super smart kid who chooses in certain classes not to apply themselves. I don't think this profile is what they mean by "pointy."

[Anonymous]

There are ways to augment this profile with professional counseling help. This is exactly the kind of case that requires professional guidance.

Only hire someone who has been an admissions officer in competitive selective schools in the recent past with great testimonials.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are ways to augment this profile with professional counseling help. This is exactly the kind of case that requires professional guidance.

Only hire someone who has been an admissions officer in competitive selective schools in the recent past with great testimonials.

If the kid is a junior, which I suspect if the SAT is done, there is very little to be done at this point (grades are set, class selection done, research and SAT done, math ECs set, etc.) The malleable part is the selection of the colleges to apply to but other than that, a counselor can't magic want away the lower grades, being in the bottom half of the school, and the disparate nature between the lower grades and higher ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are ways to augment this profile with professional counseling help. This is exactly the kind of case that requires professional guidance.

Only hire someone who has been an admissions officer in competitive selective schools in the recent past with great testimonials.

If the kid is a junior, which I suspect if the SAT is done, there is very little to be done at this point (grades are set, class selection done, research and SAT done, math ECs set, etc.) The malleable part is the selection of the colleges to apply to but other than that, a counselor can't magic want away the lower grades, being in the bottom half of the school, and the disparate nature between the lower grades and higher ones.

Yeah but this is a pretty unique case and a top counselor may have good advice about how to package everything and which colleges are more likely to look past some bad grades in subjects OP's DD will likely never take again. In some ways Brown makes perfect sense but I doubt that is a possibility (their loss).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are ways to augment this profile with professional counseling help. This is exactly the kind of case that requires professional guidance.

Only hire someone who has been an admissions officer in competitive selective schools in the recent past with great testimonials.

If the kid is a junior, which I suspect if the SAT is done, there is very little to be done at this point (grades are set, class selection done, research and SAT done, math ECs set, etc.) The malleable part is the selection of the colleges to apply to but other than that, a counselor can't magic want away the lower grades, being in the bottom half of the school, and the disparate nature between the lower grades and higher ones.

Yeah but this is a pretty unique case and a top counselor may have good advice about how to package everything and which colleges are more likely to look past some bad grades in subjects OP's DD will likely never take again. In some ways Brown makes perfect sense but I doubt that is a possibility (their loss).

There is no way to package this in unique way…only focus on schools to apply to. How could Brown make perfect sense other than kid can take more classes the kid likes…but class rank and gpa are problematic…as are ability to adapt to different classes. Brown wants kids to dabble and this kid definitely appears to work at what she likes.

[Anonymous]

I also have a strong math kid from a top private in a big city. He's also very un-balanced:
- top STEM grades but mid humanities grades (ranges from B- to A-).
- been to two summer camps from this group: ROSS/PROMYS/SuMAC/HCSSiM/SSP/BWSI/Simons - and won an award/recognition at one of these)
- 1550+ SAT (800M) - taken during fall of 10th grade. AP Calc BC score 5 (taken end of 10th grade)
- 3.8 GPA
- participated in research program during summer (but no published paper)
- took two college math classes (not dual enrollment, in actual college classes) and got 4.0 in both

He was rejected from Princeton early this round.

My kid is very strong in math, but everywhere/everyone I looked/asked, I was told yes, your child is very good in math, but there are many other kids that are also just as strong in math and have As in writing. And they also have amazing ECs, and amazing volunteers hours, and competition math acclodes, etc etc etc. You get the idea.

OP: your child's best advantage is that she's a girl; but her GPA will really hurt her. Making it to ROSS/PROMYS is great, but by no means a "sure in," even for a girl (I think the only ones nowadays close to that level are RSI and MIT Primes).

Where was her research published? Was she First Author? I think these can potentially give her an edge (ie first author, published in a recognized journal, etc).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also have a strong math kid from a top private in a big city. He's also very un-balanced:
- top STEM grades but mid humanities grades (ranges from B- to A-).
- been to two summer camps from this group: ROSS/PROMYS/SuMAC/HCSSiM/SSP/BWSI/Simons - and won an award/recognition at one of these)
- 1550+ SAT (800M) - taken during fall of 10th grade. AP Calc BC score 5 (taken end of 10th grade)
- 3.8 GPA
- participated in research program during summer (but no published paper)
- took two college math classes (not dual enrollment, in actual college classes) and got 4.0 in both

He was rejected from Princeton early this round.

My kid is very strong in math, but everywhere/everyone I looked/asked, I was told yes, your child is very good in math, but there are many other kids that are also just as strong in math and have As in writing. And they also have amazing ECs, and amazing volunteers hours, and competition math acclodes, etc etc etc. You get the idea.

OP: your child's best advantage is that she's a girl; but her GPA will really hurt her. Making it to ROSS/PROMYS is great, but by no means a "sure in," even for a girl (I think the only ones nowadays close to that level are RSI and MIT Primes).

Where was her research published? Was she First Author? I think these can potentially give her an edge (ie first author, published in a recognized journal, etc).

Is a 3.8 bottom half of your kid’s senior class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also have a strong math kid from a top private in a big city. He's also very un-balanced:
- top STEM grades but mid humanities grades (ranges from B- to A-).
- been to two summer camps from this group: ROSS/PROMYS/SuMAC/HCSSiM/SSP/BWSI/Simons - and won an award/recognition at one of these)
- 1550+ SAT (800M) - taken during fall of 10th grade. AP Calc BC score 5 (taken end of 10th grade)
- 3.8 GPA
- participated in research program during summer (but no published paper)
- took two college math classes (not dual enrollment, in actual college classes) and got 4.0 in both

He was rejected from Princeton early this round.

My kid is very strong in math, but everywhere/everyone I looked/asked, I was told yes, your child is very good in math, but there are many other kids that are also just as strong in math and have As in writing. And they also have amazing ECs, and amazing volunteers hours, and competition math acclodes, etc etc etc. You get the idea.

OP: your child's best advantage is that she's a girl; but her GPA will really hurt her. Making it to ROSS/PROMYS is great, but by no means a "sure in," even for a girl (I think the only ones nowadays close to that level are RSI and MIT Primes).

Where was her research published? Was she First Author? I think these can potentially give her an edge (ie first author, published in a recognized journal, etc).

Is a 3.8 bottom half of your kid’s senior class?

No - I don't know where that lands exactly, but definitely in the top 50% at our school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also have a strong math kid from a top private in a big city. He's also very un-balanced:
- top STEM grades but mid humanities grades (ranges from B- to A-).
- been to two summer camps from this group: ROSS/PROMYS/SuMAC/HCSSiM/SSP/BWSI/Simons - and won an award/recognition at one of these)
- 1550+ SAT (800M) - taken during fall of 10th grade. AP Calc BC score 5 (taken end of 10th grade)
- 3.8 GPA
- participated in research program during summer (but no published paper)
- took two college math classes (not dual enrollment, in actual college classes) and got 4.0 in both

He was rejected from Princeton early this round.

My kid is very strong in math, but everywhere/everyone I looked/asked, I was told yes, your child is very good in math, but there are many other kids that are also just as strong in math and have As in writing. And they also have amazing ECs, and amazing volunteers hours, and competition math acclodes, etc etc etc. You get the idea.

OP: your child's best advantage is that she's a girl; but her GPA will really hurt her. Making it to ROSS/PROMYS is great, but by no means a "sure in," even for a girl (I think the only ones nowadays close to that level are RSI and MIT Primes).

Where was her research published? Was she First Author? I think these can potentially give her an edge (ie first author, published in a recognized journal, etc).

Thanks for sharing.

Is it this year? HYP is tough for even the perfect resume. Good luck in the RD round.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also have a strong math kid from a top private in a big city. He's also very un-balanced:
- top STEM grades but mid humanities grades (ranges from B- to A-).
- been to two summer camps from this group: ROSS/PROMYS/SuMAC/HCSSiM/SSP/BWSI/Simons - and won an award/recognition at one of these)
- 1550+ SAT (800M) - taken during fall of 10th grade. AP Calc BC score 5 (taken end of 10th grade)
- 3.8 GPA
- participated in research program during summer (but no published paper)
- took two college math classes (not dual enrollment, in actual college classes) and got 4.0 in both

He was rejected from Princeton early this round.

My kid is very strong in math, but everywhere/everyone I looked/asked, I was told yes, your child is very good in math, but there are many other kids that are also just as strong in math and have As in writing. And they also have amazing ECs, and amazing volunteers hours, and competition math acclodes, etc etc etc. You get the idea.

OP: your child's best advantage is that she's a girl; but her GPA will really hurt her. Making it to ROSS/PROMYS is great, but by no means a "sure in," even for a girl (I think the only ones nowadays close to that level are RSI and MIT Primes).

Where was her research published? Was she First Author? I think these can potentially give her an edge (ie first author, published in a recognized journal, etc).

Thanks for sharing.

Is it this year? HYP is tough for even the perfect resume. Good luck in the RD round.

yes, this year. That was a really tough rejection (I know nothing is guaranteed, but we thought he really had a small chance - at least being deferred). And thank you!