what's the difference btw William & Mary and Wake?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Wake has lots of rich kids. W&M prob less so.

Wake has better ROI and can compete outside of regional placement for jobs. It will get closer to top 25 in a few years.

Wak is nowhere near being a top 25

Dp, but why this again. When us news decides to eliminate the dei factors it’s used for the last year or two, Wake will likely be back on the T30, just as it was for over 25 straight years.

But we all know they won't, and since Wake isn't really looking to grow research they'll continue to be punished

So will William and Mary, the schools excel based on class size and having full professors teachers. The research factors are less than 5 percent of score and focus only on overall number of citations. Schools the size of Wake or William and Mary simply can’t compete with the the large flagships on this criteria, they don’t have the same raw numbers of faculty.

W&M is certainly trying to grow research now that it's R1. Will obviously never be able to compete with flagships but it can probably catch up to bigger research privates

Doubtful, it doesn’t even have a medical school.

There are plenty of bigger research schools without a med school. You can still do health related research without one - I imagine the new bioengineering program they're adding will ramp up with that pretty quickly.

My student is premed. She could go to Wake, where she can take classes with medical schools faculty, works in labs with her professors at a school that has well over $300 million in biomedical funding, and shadow her professors at Wake Med.

Or she could go to William and Mary, which has no medical school and a total of $81 million in research funding, nearly all of which is not biomedical.

Thank you for this wonderful straw man argument that had absolutely nothing to do with the previous comment

Not remotely a straw man. It just shows how superficial your understanding of research is. William and Mary being R1 had very little value to my family when their total amount of research is still small and there is little in the area of interest to my student. If my kid was interested in marine science or education, William and Mary would be a better choice for them given its research strength in those area. For a premed kid, Wake offers significantly better research opportunities in their area of interest. Unlike total number of citations in scientific journals, these are inquiries families should be considering because they will have a direct impact on their kid’s academic experience.

It's a strawman because I was talking about the US news rankings and you're going on a whole side argument about personal value. Great! But who asked? I'm not a fan of the new ranking weights but Wake has made it pretty clear they aren't going to try to improve on them. https://about.wfu.edu/wake-forest-and-rankings/

That web page doesn’t support your statement at all. It is a great summary of wake’s strengths though.

Nature magazine, the preeminent peer reviewed scientific journal, ranks Wake 143rd for its research efforts and William and Mary 287th.

And like every other university, Wake continues to work on growing its research efforts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovation_Quarter

Wake Forest has never made decisions or determined University strategy based on chasing rankings such as those from U.S. News. We do not intend to start now.

seems pretty point and blank to me.

If you're going to keep deliberately ignoring/misinterpreting what I've said I'm really just wasting my time. I'm not talking about now, I'm talking about the future. And a different future requires many years of planning and thought and strategy. Pulling out current rankings like that somehow undermines that is just you being disingenuous.

You suggested that only William and Mary is interested in growing its research efforts. Wake, like nearly every other university in the country, has been doing that for decades and continues to do so, and is not focused on research for purposes of U.S. News ranking improvement. I suspect that William and Mary’s increased focus on research also has zilch to do with the U.S. News rankings and instead has more substantive underpinnings. Your arguments are literally nonsense.

Again another misread! Yikes lady. Can't find anything online about Wake looking to significantly boost research or try to go R1 or expand heavily outside of just the med scholl. If you have some stuff that counters that please send it our way, but this gaslighting is just ridiculous.

Wake, as an institution, has more than three times the research funding of William anns Mary and a research ranking more than 140 places ahead, according to the preeminent science journal. I gave you an entire wiki article about Winston Salem’s innovation corridor and Wake’s role in it. I previously mentioned that Wake has a brand new research faculty dedicated to undergraduate and medical school research and that there is fantastic opportunities for science undergrads to take classes with and work in labs run by medical school professors.

And if you ran a simple google search, here’s what else you would learn:

Key Research Growth & Investments
School of Medicine Expansion: The School of Medicine and Advocate Health are driving major research initiatives, highlighted by a new $ 100 million campaign to support studies in Alzheimer's, regenerative medicine, and diabetes.
Translational Focus: A new translational eye and vision research center has been launched, connecting researchers across the Advocate Health system.
Infrastructure Investment: The university is investing over $1 million in upgrading laboratory and learning spaces, with further campus master planning underway to support increased research activities.
Research Areas: Key focus areas include Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, cardiovascular disease, neurosciences, and regenerative medicine.
Academic Upgrades: The university is planning a capital campaign set to culminate in 2034 to fund academic innovation and research, following a period of modest strategic undergraduate enrollment growth

I’m not the one gaslighting.

DP: thank you for the AI summary really great research there 🙄

Well, pp said she was unable to find nothing anything at all about Wake’s research efforts. Apparently a basic file AI search is beyond her capabilities.

Yeah because AI is a really reliable source and never ever hallucinates and makes things up.

Which of the bullet points do you think is false exactly? Honestly, the responses get more idiotic by the page.

You think it's idiotic that people don't blindly trust AI? Get a grip you lunatic. Doesn't reflect well on you that you blindly believe whatever it spits out.

Gon, point out what you think is incorrect. You can’t and resort to insults instead. A sure sign of a losing argument.

You called my response idiotic first. And why would I do your own research for you? I don't just blindly trust what AI spits out without being able to read the sources. The burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim.

You are the one calling it false. Prove it. You can’t even identify a specific claim that is false.

When did I say it was "false"? I said it was unsourced. Big difference! I don't believe anything is true without a source. I'm not going to waste my time doing the research you couldn't be bothered to do.

Yes I know , even a simple google search is beyond you or reading specific web pages that I have embedded in my responses.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Wake has lots of rich kids. W&M prob less so.

Wake has better ROI and can compete outside of regional placement for jobs. It will get closer to top 25 in a few years.

Wak is nowhere near being a top 25

Dp, but why this again. When us news decides to eliminate the dei factors it’s used for the last year or two, Wake will likely be back on the T30, just as it was for over 25 straight years.

But we all know they won't, and since Wake isn't really looking to grow research they'll continue to be punished

So will William and Mary, the schools excel based on class size and having full professors teachers. The research factors are less than 5 percent of score and focus only on overall number of citations. Schools the size of Wake or William and Mary simply can’t compete with the the large flagships on this criteria, they don’t have the same raw numbers of faculty.

W&M is certainly trying to grow research now that it's R1. Will obviously never be able to compete with flagships but it can probably catch up to bigger research privates

Doubtful, it doesn’t even have a medical school.

There are plenty of bigger research schools without a med school. You can still do health related research without one - I imagine the new bioengineering program they're adding will ramp up with that pretty quickly.

My student is premed. She could go to Wake, where she can take classes with medical schools faculty, works in labs with her professors at a school that has well over $300 million in biomedical funding, and shadow her professors at Wake Med.

Or she could go to William and Mary, which has no medical school and a total of $81 million in research funding, nearly all of which is not biomedical.

Thank you for this wonderful straw man argument that had absolutely nothing to do with the previous comment

Not remotely a straw man. It just shows how superficial your understanding of research is. William and Mary being R1 had very little value to my family when their total amount of research is still small and there is little in the area of interest to my student. If my kid was interested in marine science or education, William and Mary would be a better choice for them given its research strength in those area. For a premed kid, Wake offers significantly better research opportunities in their area of interest. Unlike total number of citations in scientific journals, these are inquiries families should be considering because they will have a direct impact on their kid’s academic experience.

It's a strawman because I was talking about the US news rankings and you're going on a whole side argument about personal value. Great! But who asked? I'm not a fan of the new ranking weights but Wake has made it pretty clear they aren't going to try to improve on them. https://about.wfu.edu/wake-forest-and-rankings/

That web page doesn’t support your statement at all. It is a great summary of wake’s strengths though.

Nature magazine, the preeminent peer reviewed scientific journal, ranks Wake 143rd for its research efforts and William and Mary 287th.

And like every other university, Wake continues to work on growing its research efforts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovation_Quarter

Wake Forest has never made decisions or determined University strategy based on chasing rankings such as those from U.S. News. We do not intend to start now.

seems pretty point and blank to me.

If you're going to keep deliberately ignoring/misinterpreting what I've said I'm really just wasting my time. I'm not talking about now, I'm talking about the future. And a different future requires many years of planning and thought and strategy. Pulling out current rankings like that somehow undermines that is just you being disingenuous.

You suggested that only William and Mary is interested in growing its research efforts. Wake, like nearly every other university in the country, has been doing that for decades and continues to do so, and is not focused on research for purposes of U.S. News ranking improvement. I suspect that William and Mary’s increased focus on research also has zilch to do with the U.S. News rankings and instead has more substantive underpinnings. Your arguments are literally nonsense.

Again another misread! Yikes lady. Can't find anything online about Wake looking to significantly boost research or try to go R1 or expand heavily outside of just the med scholl. If you have some stuff that counters that please send it our way, but this gaslighting is just ridiculous.

Wake, as an institution, has more than three times the research funding of William anns Mary and a research ranking more than 140 places ahead, according to the preeminent science journal. I gave you an entire wiki article about Winston Salem’s innovation corridor and Wake’s role in it. I previously mentioned that Wake has a brand new research faculty dedicated to undergraduate and medical school research and that there is fantastic opportunities for science undergrads to take classes with and work in labs run by medical school professors.

And if you ran a simple google search, here’s what else you would learn:

Key Research Growth & Investments
School of Medicine Expansion: The School of Medicine and Advocate Health are driving major research initiatives, highlighted by a new $ 100 million campaign to support studies in Alzheimer's, regenerative medicine, and diabetes.
Translational Focus: A new translational eye and vision research center has been launched, connecting researchers across the Advocate Health system.
Infrastructure Investment: The university is investing over $1 million in upgrading laboratory and learning spaces, with further campus master planning underway to support increased research activities.
Research Areas: Key focus areas include Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, cardiovascular disease, neurosciences, and regenerative medicine.
Academic Upgrades: The university is planning a capital campaign set to culminate in 2034 to fund academic innovation and research, following a period of modest strategic undergraduate enrollment growth

I’m not the one gaslighting.

DP: thank you for the AI summary really great research there 🙄

Well, pp said she was unable to find nothing anything at all about Wake’s research efforts. Apparently a basic file AI search is beyond her capabilities.

Yeah because AI is a really reliable source and never ever hallucinates and makes things up.

Which of the bullet points do you think is false exactly? Honestly, the responses get more idiotic by the page.

You think it's idiotic that people don't blindly trust AI? Get a grip you lunatic. Doesn't reflect well on you that you blindly believe whatever it spits out.

Gon, point out what you think is incorrect. You can’t and resort to insults instead. A sure sign of a losing argument.

You called my response idiotic first. And why would I do your own research for you? I don't just blindly trust what AI spits out without being able to read the sources. The burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim.

You are the one calling it false. Prove it. You can’t even identify a specific claim that is false.

When did I say it was "false"? I said it was unsourced. Big difference! I don't believe anything is true without a source. I'm not going to waste my time doing the research you couldn't be bothered to do.

Yes I know , even a simple google search is beyond you or reading specific web pages that I have embedded in my responses.

The Google AI overview is a joke. I've done plenty of Google searches and excluding the AI generated nonsense I haven't found a whole lot which is exactly why I was asking.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/2024/05/31/1093019/why-are-googles-ai-overviews-results-so-bad/amp/

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Wake has lots of rich kids. W&M prob less so.

Wake has better ROI and can compete outside of regional placement for jobs. It will get closer to top 25 in a few years.

Wak is nowhere near being a top 25

Dp, but why this again. When us news decides to eliminate the dei factors it’s used for the last year or two, Wake will likely be back on the T30, just as it was for over 25 straight years.

But we all know they won't, and since Wake isn't really looking to grow research they'll continue to be punished

So will William and Mary, the schools excel based on class size and having full professors teachers. The research factors are less than 5 percent of score and focus only on overall number of citations. Schools the size of Wake or William and Mary simply can’t compete with the the large flagships on this criteria, they don’t have the same raw numbers of faculty.

W&M is certainly trying to grow research now that it's R1. Will obviously never be able to compete with flagships but it can probably catch up to bigger research privates

Doubtful, it doesn’t even have a medical school.

There are plenty of bigger research schools without a med school. You can still do health related research without one - I imagine the new bioengineering program they're adding will ramp up with that pretty quickly.

My student is premed. She could go to Wake, where she can take classes with medical schools faculty, works in labs with her professors at a school that has well over $300 million in biomedical funding, and shadow her professors at Wake Med.

Or she could go to William and Mary, which has no medical school and a total of $81 million in research funding, nearly all of which is not biomedical.

Thank you for this wonderful straw man argument that had absolutely nothing to do with the previous comment

Not remotely a straw man. It just shows how superficial your understanding of research is. William and Mary being R1 had very little value to my family when their total amount of research is still small and there is little in the area of interest to my student. If my kid was interested in marine science or education, William and Mary would be a better choice for them given its research strength in those area. For a premed kid, Wake offers significantly better research opportunities in their area of interest. Unlike total number of citations in scientific journals, these are inquiries families should be considering because they will have a direct impact on their kid’s academic experience.

It's a strawman because I was talking about the US news rankings and you're going on a whole side argument about personal value. Great! But who asked? I'm not a fan of the new ranking weights but Wake has made it pretty clear they aren't going to try to improve on them. https://about.wfu.edu/wake-forest-and-rankings/

That web page doesn’t support your statement at all. It is a great summary of wake’s strengths though.

Nature magazine, the preeminent peer reviewed scientific journal, ranks Wake 143rd for its research efforts and William and Mary 287th.

And like every other university, Wake continues to work on growing its research efforts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovation_Quarter

Wake Forest has never made decisions or determined University strategy based on chasing rankings such as those from U.S. News. We do not intend to start now.

seems pretty point and blank to me.

If you're going to keep deliberately ignoring/misinterpreting what I've said I'm really just wasting my time. I'm not talking about now, I'm talking about the future. And a different future requires many years of planning and thought and strategy. Pulling out current rankings like that somehow undermines that is just you being disingenuous.

You suggested that only William and Mary is interested in growing its research efforts. Wake, like nearly every other university in the country, has been doing that for decades and continues to do so, and is not focused on research for purposes of U.S. News ranking improvement. I suspect that William and Mary’s increased focus on research also has zilch to do with the U.S. News rankings and instead has more substantive underpinnings. Your arguments are literally nonsense.

Again another misread! Yikes lady. Can't find anything online about Wake looking to significantly boost research or try to go R1 or expand heavily outside of just the med scholl. If you have some stuff that counters that please send it our way, but this gaslighting is just ridiculous.

Wake, as an institution, has more than three times the research funding of William anns Mary and a research ranking more than 140 places ahead, according to the preeminent science journal. I gave you an entire wiki article about Winston Salem’s innovation corridor and Wake’s role in it. I previously mentioned that Wake has a brand new research faculty dedicated to undergraduate and medical school research and that there is fantastic opportunities for science undergrads to take classes with and work in labs run by medical school professors.

And if you ran a simple google search, here’s what else you would learn:

Key Research Growth & Investments
School of Medicine Expansion: The School of Medicine and Advocate Health are driving major research initiatives, highlighted by a new $ 100 million campaign to support studies in Alzheimer's, regenerative medicine, and diabetes.
Translational Focus: A new translational eye and vision research center has been launched, connecting researchers across the Advocate Health system.
Infrastructure Investment: The university is investing over $1 million in upgrading laboratory and learning spaces, with further campus master planning underway to support increased research activities.
Research Areas: Key focus areas include Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, cardiovascular disease, neurosciences, and regenerative medicine.
Academic Upgrades: The university is planning a capital campaign set to culminate in 2034 to fund academic innovation and research, following a period of modest strategic undergraduate enrollment growth

I’m not the one gaslighting.

DP: thank you for the AI summary really great research there 🙄

Well, pp said she was unable to find nothing anything at all about Wake’s research efforts. Apparently a basic file AI search is beyond her capabilities.

Yeah because AI is a really reliable source and never ever hallucinates and makes things up.

Which of the bullet points do you think is false exactly? Honestly, the responses get more idiotic by the page.

You think it's idiotic that people don't blindly trust AI? Get a grip you lunatic. Doesn't reflect well on you that you blindly believe whatever it spits out.

Gon, point out what you think is incorrect. You can’t and resort to insults instead. A sure sign of a losing argument.

You called my response idiotic first. And why would I do your own research for you? I don't just blindly trust what AI spits out without being able to read the sources. The burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim.

You are the one calling it false. Prove it. You can’t even identify a specific claim that is false.

When did I say it was "false"? I said it was unsourced. Big difference! I don't believe anything is true without a source. I'm not going to waste my time doing the research you couldn't be bothered to do.

Yes I know , even a simple google search is beyond you or reading specific web pages that I have embedded in my responses.

Lol I did my own Google search.

"who has more ambitious plans for research growth - w&m or wake forest? you have to pick one"

Since you trust AI overview so much let's see what it has to say!

William & Mary has the more ambitious plans for research growth.
While both institutions are high-quality, W&M's 2025 ascension to R1 status (Doctoral Universities – Very High Research Activity) without a medical school marks a major, intentional, and rapid shift in research ambition.
W&M News
W&M News
+1
Why William & Mary (W&M):
Targeted R1 Status: W&M recently achieved R1 status, a landmark goal that places it among the top research universities in the nation. This demonstrates a specific, successful, and ambitious push to increase grant funding and doctoral production.
Ambitious 2026 Vision: The "Vision 2026" plan specifically focuses on expanding its reach, educating for impact, and fostering interdisciplinary collaboration in key areas such as data, water, and democracy.
Undergraduate Focus in R1: W&M has designed a unique model where R1-level research is integrated with undergraduate education, making research opportunities available to students as freshmen.
William & Mary
William & Mary
+3
Wake Forest Comparison:
Medical Focus: Wake Forest has strong research, but its growth is highly tied to its medical school and its partnership with Atrium Health, which is a different, more specialized, and traditional trajectory.
Liberal Arts Foundation: Wake Forest's "Strategic Framework" (leading to 2034) focuses on building upon its strength as a "teacher-scholar" institution, which is a more balanced approach between teaching and research.
Wake Forest University School of Medicine
Wake Forest University School of Medicine
+3
W&M is actively disrupting its identity as a smaller liberal arts college to assert itself as a research powerhouse, making its current trajectory more ambitious.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wake has lots of rich kids. W&M prob less so.

Wake has better ROI and can compete outside of regional placement for jobs. It will get closer to top 25 in a few years.

Wak is nowhere near being a top 25

Dp, but why this again. When us news decides to eliminate the dei factors it’s used for the last year or two, Wake will likely be back on the T30, just as it was for over 25 straight years.

But we all know they won't, and since Wake isn't really looking to grow research they'll continue to be punished

So will William and Mary, the schools excel based on class size and having full professors teachers. The research factors are less than 5 percent of score and focus only on overall number of citations. Schools the size of Wake or William and Mary simply can’t compete with the the large flagships on this criteria, they don’t have the same raw numbers of faculty.

W&M is certainly trying to grow research now that it's R1. Will obviously never be able to compete with flagships but it can probably catch up to bigger research privates

Doubtful, it doesn’t even have a medical school.

There are plenty of bigger research schools without a med school. You can still do health related research without one - I imagine the new bioengineering program they're adding will ramp up with that pretty quickly.

My student is premed. She could go to Wake, where she can take classes with medical schools faculty, works in labs with her professors at a school that has well over $300 million in biomedical funding, and shadow her professors at Wake Med.

Or she could go to William and Mary, which has no medical school and a total of $81 million in research funding, nearly all of which is not biomedical.

Thank you for this wonderful straw man argument that had absolutely nothing to do with the previous comment

Not remotely a straw man. It just shows how superficial your understanding of research is. William and Mary being R1 had very little value to my family when their total amount of research is still small and there is little in the area of interest to my student. If my kid was interested in marine science or education, William and Mary would be a better choice for them given its research strength in those area. For a premed kid, Wake offers significantly better research opportunities in their area of interest. Unlike total number of citations in scientific journals, these are inquiries families should be considering because they will have a direct impact on their kid’s academic experience.

It's a strawman because I was talking about the US news rankings and you're going on a whole side argument about personal value. Great! But who asked? I'm not a fan of the new ranking weights but Wake has made it pretty clear they aren't going to try to improve on them. https://about.wfu.edu/wake-forest-and-rankings/

That web page doesn’t support your statement at all. It is a great summary of wake’s strengths though.

Nature magazine, the preeminent peer reviewed scientific journal, ranks Wake 143rd for its research efforts and William and Mary 287th.

And like every other university, Wake continues to work on growing its research efforts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovation_Quarter

Wake Forest has never made decisions or determined University strategy based on chasing rankings such as those from U.S. News. We do not intend to start now.

seems pretty point and blank to me.

If you're going to keep deliberately ignoring/misinterpreting what I've said I'm really just wasting my time. I'm not talking about now, I'm talking about the future. And a different future requires many years of planning and thought and strategy. Pulling out current rankings like that somehow undermines that is just you being disingenuous.

You suggested that only William and Mary is interested in growing its research efforts. Wake, like nearly every other university in the country, has been doing that for decades and continues to do so, and is not focused on research for purposes of U.S. News ranking improvement. I suspect that William and Mary’s increased focus on research also has zilch to do with the U.S. News rankings and instead has more substantive underpinnings. Your arguments are literally nonsense.

Again another misread! Yikes lady. Can't find anything online about Wake looking to significantly boost research or try to go R1 or expand heavily outside of just the med scholl. If you have some stuff that counters that please send it our way, but this gaslighting is just ridiculous.

Wake, as an institution, has more than three times the research funding of William anns Mary and a research ranking more than 140 places ahead, according to the preeminent science journal. I gave you an entire wiki article about Winston Salem’s innovation corridor and Wake’s role in it. I previously mentioned that Wake has a brand new research faculty dedicated to undergraduate and medical school research and that there is fantastic opportunities for science undergrads to take classes with and work in labs run by medical school professors.

And if you ran a simple google search, here’s what else you would learn:

Key Research Growth & Investments
School of Medicine Expansion: The School of Medicine and Advocate Health are driving major research initiatives, highlighted by a new $ 100 million campaign to support studies in Alzheimer's, regenerative medicine, and diabetes.
Translational Focus: A new translational eye and vision research center has been launched, connecting researchers across the Advocate Health system.
Infrastructure Investment: The university is investing over $1 million in upgrading laboratory and learning spaces, with further campus master planning underway to support increased research activities.
Research Areas: Key focus areas include Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, cardiovascular disease, neurosciences, and regenerative medicine.
Academic Upgrades: The university is planning a capital campaign set to culminate in 2034 to fund academic innovation and research, following a period of modest strategic undergraduate enrollment growth

I’m not the one gaslighting.

DP: thank you for the AI summary really great research there 🙄

Well, pp said she was unable to find nothing anything at all about Wake’s research efforts. Apparently a basic file AI search is beyond her capabilities.

Yeah because AI is a really reliable source and never ever hallucinates and makes things up.

Which of the bullet points do you think is false exactly? Honestly, the responses get more idiotic by the page.

You think it's idiotic that people don't blindly trust AI? Get a grip you lunatic. Doesn't reflect well on you that you blindly believe whatever it spits out.

Gon, point out what you think is incorrect. You can’t and resort to insults instead. A sure sign of a losing argument.

You called my response idiotic first. And why would I do your own research for you? I don't just blindly trust what AI spits out without being able to read the sources. The burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim.

You are the one calling it false. Prove it. You can’t even identify a specific claim that is false.

When did I say it was "false"? I said it was unsourced. Big difference! I don't believe anything is true without a source. I'm not going to waste my time doing the research you couldn't be bothered to do.

Yes I know , even a simple google search is beyond you or reading specific web pages that I have embedded in my responses.

Lol I did my own Google search.

"who has more ambitious plans for research growth - w&m or wake forest? you have to pick one"

Since you trust AI overview so much let's see what it has to say!

William & Mary has the more ambitious plans for research growth.
While both institutions are high-quality, W&M's 2025 ascension to R1 status (Doctoral Universities – Very High Research Activity) without a medical school marks a major, intentional, and rapid shift in research ambition.
W&M News
W&M News
+1
Why William & Mary (W&M):
Targeted R1 Status: W&M recently achieved R1 status, a landmark goal that places it among the top research universities in the nation. This demonstrates a specific, successful, and ambitious push to increase grant funding and doctoral production.
Ambitious 2026 Vision: The "Vision 2026" plan specifically focuses on expanding its reach, educating for impact, and fostering interdisciplinary collaboration in key areas such as data, water, and democracy.
Undergraduate Focus in R1: W&M has designed a unique model where R1-level research is integrated with undergraduate education, making research opportunities available to students as freshmen.
William & Mary
William & Mary
+3
Wake Forest Comparison:
Medical Focus: Wake Forest has strong research, but its growth is highly tied to its medical school and its partnership with Atrium Health, which is a different, more specialized, and traditional trajectory.
Liberal Arts Foundation: Wake Forest's "Strategic Framework" (leading to 2034) focuses on building upon its strength as a "teacher-scholar" institution, which is a more balanced approach between teaching and research.
Wake Forest University School of Medicine
Wake Forest University School of Medicine
+3
W&M is actively disrupting its identity as a smaller liberal arts college to assert itself as a research powerhouse, making its current trajectory more ambitious.

DP: this is hilarious

[Anonymous]

Zero-sum-gaming this is dumb. Can you both move on?

[Anonymous]

Describe the strengths of the research programs at William and Mary and Wake Forest. Which program has more money for basic science research.

**Research Strengths of William & Mary:**
1. **Interdisciplinary Research:** William & Mary is known for its strong emphasis on interdisciplinary research, particularly at the intersection of sciences, humanities, and social sciences. The faculty often collaborate across disciplines, fostering innovative approaches to complex problems.
2. **Focus Areas:** The university has developed notable strengths in environmental science, marine science, and psychological sciences. Its proximity to the Chesapeake Bay and the Virginia coast enhances its capabilities in marine and environmental research.
3. **Undergraduate Research Opportunities:** William & Mary prioritizes undergraduate involvement in research, providing students with opportunities to engage in meaningful projects, often alongside faculty members, which fosters a strong research culture.
4. **Historic and Cultural Research:** Given its history as one of the oldest universities in the United States, William & Mary also excels in the fields of American history, colonial studies, and public policy.
**Research Strengths of Wake Forest University:**
1. **Biomedical Research:** Wake Forest is particularly strong in biomedical research, particularly in the School of Medicine. The university has made significant contributions in areas like regenerative medicine, cancer research, and public health.
2. **Clinical Research:** The Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center is a vital part of the university's research infrastructure, facilitating substantial clinical trials and enhancing the academic community’s focus on translational research that bridges laboratory discoveries to patient care.
3. **Innovations in Health Sciences:** Wake Forest leads in research on health disparities, aging, and obesity, underscoring its commitment to addressing pressing societal health challenges through innovative research.
4. **Collaboration with Industry:** The university actively collaborates with industries, fostering partnerships that support applied research and the commercialization of discoveries, enhancing its impact on both local and global scales.
**Funding for Basic Science Research:**
In terms of overall funding for basic science research, Wake Forest University typically has more significant financial resources compared to William & Mary. Wake Forest's substantial investments in biomedical and clinical research, along with its affiliated medical center, lead to higher funding levels, particularly from national institutes like the National Institutes of Health (NIH).
Contrastingly, while William & Mary has a strong reputation for undergraduate research and interdisciplinary studies, its funding levels for basic science research are usually lower due to its focus on liberal arts and its size compared to larger research institutions. Therefore, if you are looking at overall funding and emphasis on basic science research, Wake Forest University generally leads.

[Anonymous]

In a nutshell, the area of research matters just as much of dollars. UVA, VCU and VaTech are the public schools for basic science research in Virginia. William and Mary is excellent for public policy, marine sciences, and other humanities. You have to look at the type of research the dollars are supporting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Describe the strengths of the research programs at William and Mary and Wake Forest. Which program has more money for basic science research.

**Research Strengths of William & Mary:**
1. **Interdisciplinary Research:** William & Mary is known for its strong emphasis on interdisciplinary research, particularly at the intersection of sciences, humanities, and social sciences. The faculty often collaborate across disciplines, fostering innovative approaches to complex problems.
2. **Focus Areas:** The university has developed notable strengths in environmental science, marine science, and psychological sciences. Its proximity to the Chesapeake Bay and the Virginia coast enhances its capabilities in marine and environmental research.
3. **Undergraduate Research Opportunities:** William & Mary prioritizes undergraduate involvement in research, providing students with opportunities to engage in meaningful projects, often alongside faculty members, which fosters a strong research culture.
4. **Historic and Cultural Research:** Given its history as one of the oldest universities in the United States, William & Mary also excels in the fields of American history, colonial studies, and public policy.
**Research Strengths of Wake Forest University:**
1. **Biomedical Research:** Wake Forest is particularly strong in biomedical research, particularly in the School of Medicine. The university has made significant contributions in areas like regenerative medicine, cancer research, and public health.
2. **Clinical Research:** The Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center is a vital part of the university's research infrastructure, facilitating substantial clinical trials and enhancing the academic community’s focus on translational research that bridges laboratory discoveries to patient care.
3. **Innovations in Health Sciences:** Wake Forest leads in research on health disparities, aging, and obesity, underscoring its commitment to addressing pressing societal health challenges through innovative research.
4. **Collaboration with Industry:** The university actively collaborates with industries, fostering partnerships that support applied research and the commercialization of discoveries, enhancing its impact on both local and global scales.
**Funding for Basic Science Research:**
In terms of overall funding for basic science research, Wake Forest University typically has more significant financial resources compared to William & Mary. Wake Forest's substantial investments in biomedical and clinical research, along with its affiliated medical center, lead to higher funding levels, particularly from national institutes like the National Institutes of Health (NIH).
Contrastingly, while William & Mary has a strong reputation for undergraduate research and interdisciplinary studies, its funding levels for basic science research are usually lower due to its focus on liberal arts and its size compared to larger research institutions. Therefore, if you are looking at overall funding and emphasis on basic science research, Wake Forest University generally leads.

It's just frankly bad faith to obsessively continue to try reframing this to an argument about current strengths and current funding. Nobody is arguing Wake that wake doesn't have significantly more money right now. That has not once been said or even implied. My whole point (which I've started multiple times) is they're planning to diversify and change that.

If you look at the massive new school of computing facility which just opened or the health sciences building they're actively planning you cannot possibly convince yourself that the end goal isn't to diversify.

[Anonymous]

W&M has better academic reputation. Wake used to be fairly small, years ago, kind of a choice for kids who couldn’t get into UNC, NC State, Duke. It may be doing better now but W&M has been around so much longer, I feel it has a better/larger reputation. Wake not a bad option and maybe more fun but less prestige.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Describe the strengths of the research programs at William and Mary and Wake Forest. Which program has more money for basic science research.

**Research Strengths of William & Mary:**
1. **Interdisciplinary Research:** William & Mary is known for its strong emphasis on interdisciplinary research, particularly at the intersection of sciences, humanities, and social sciences. The faculty often collaborate across disciplines, fostering innovative approaches to complex problems.
2. **Focus Areas:** The university has developed notable strengths in environmental science, marine science, and psychological sciences. Its proximity to the Chesapeake Bay and the Virginia coast enhances its capabilities in marine and environmental research.
3. **Undergraduate Research Opportunities:** William & Mary prioritizes undergraduate involvement in research, providing students with opportunities to engage in meaningful projects, often alongside faculty members, which fosters a strong research culture.
4. **Historic and Cultural Research:** Given its history as one of the oldest universities in the United States, William & Mary also excels in the fields of American history, colonial studies, and public policy.
**Research Strengths of Wake Forest University:**
1. **Biomedical Research:** Wake Forest is particularly strong in biomedical research, particularly in the School of Medicine. The university has made significant contributions in areas like regenerative medicine, cancer research, and public health.
2. **Clinical Research:** The Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center is a vital part of the university's research infrastructure, facilitating substantial clinical trials and enhancing the academic community’s focus on translational research that bridges laboratory discoveries to patient care.
3. **Innovations in Health Sciences:** Wake Forest leads in research on health disparities, aging, and obesity, underscoring its commitment to addressing pressing societal health challenges through innovative research.
4. **Collaboration with Industry:** The university actively collaborates with industries, fostering partnerships that support applied research and the commercialization of discoveries, enhancing its impact on both local and global scales.
**Funding for Basic Science Research:**
In terms of overall funding for basic science research, Wake Forest University typically has more significant financial resources compared to William & Mary. Wake Forest's substantial investments in biomedical and clinical research, along with its affiliated medical center, lead to higher funding levels, particularly from national institutes like the National Institutes of Health (NIH).
Contrastingly, while William & Mary has a strong reputation for undergraduate research and interdisciplinary studies, its funding levels for basic science research are usually lower due to its focus on liberal arts and its size compared to larger research institutions. Therefore, if you are looking at overall funding and emphasis on basic science research, Wake Forest University generally leads.

It's just frankly bad faith to obsessively continue to try reframing this to an argument about current strengths and current funding. Nobody is arguing Wake that wake doesn't have significantly more money right now. That has not once been said or even implied. My whole point (which I've started multiple times) is they're planning to diversify and change that.

If you look at the massive new school of computing facility which just opened or the health sciences building they're actively planning you cannot possibly convince yourself that the end goal isn't to diversify.

It’s just bad faith to conclude that William and Mary is the only school doing this. They all do constantly. Princeton just rebuilt a quarter of its campus. Wake has a 2034 project to guide its growth. https://prod.wp.cdn.aws.wfu.edu/sites/472/2023/08/Strategic-Framework.pdf. Wake is also in the midst of the Grounds construction project which is a hundred acre mixed use project that will add student housing, retail and restaurants right next to campus and will be completed in 2027. Every single dorm was either built or completely renovated within the last decade. Administrative departments are being moved to the Grounds to deer more room for academic buildings on campus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:W&M has better academic reputation. Wake used to be fairly small, years ago, kind of a choice for kids who couldn’t get into UNC, NC State, Duke. It may be doing better now but W&M has been around so much longer, I feel it has a better/larger reputation. Wake not a bad option and maybe more fun but less prestige.

You are entitled to your own subjective opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Describe the strengths of the research programs at William and Mary and Wake Forest. Which program has more money for basic science research.

**Research Strengths of William & Mary:**
1. **Interdisciplinary Research:** William & Mary is known for its strong emphasis on interdisciplinary research, particularly at the intersection of sciences, humanities, and social sciences. The faculty often collaborate across disciplines, fostering innovative approaches to complex problems.
2. **Focus Areas:** The university has developed notable strengths in environmental science, marine science, and psychological sciences. Its proximity to the Chesapeake Bay and the Virginia coast enhances its capabilities in marine and environmental research.
3. **Undergraduate Research Opportunities:** William & Mary prioritizes undergraduate involvement in research, providing students with opportunities to engage in meaningful projects, often alongside faculty members, which fosters a strong research culture.
4. **Historic and Cultural Research:** Given its history as one of the oldest universities in the United States, William & Mary also excels in the fields of American history, colonial studies, and public policy.
**Research Strengths of Wake Forest University:**
1. **Biomedical Research:** Wake Forest is particularly strong in biomedical research, particularly in the School of Medicine. The university has made significant contributions in areas like regenerative medicine, cancer research, and public health.
2. **Clinical Research:** The Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center is a vital part of the university's research infrastructure, facilitating substantial clinical trials and enhancing the academic community’s focus on translational research that bridges laboratory discoveries to patient care.
3. **Innovations in Health Sciences:** Wake Forest leads in research on health disparities, aging, and obesity, underscoring its commitment to addressing pressing societal health challenges through innovative research.
4. **Collaboration with Industry:** The university actively collaborates with industries, fostering partnerships that support applied research and the commercialization of discoveries, enhancing its impact on both local and global scales.
**Funding for Basic Science Research:**
In terms of overall funding for basic science research, Wake Forest University typically has more significant financial resources compared to William & Mary. Wake Forest's substantial investments in biomedical and clinical research, along with its affiliated medical center, lead to higher funding levels, particularly from national institutes like the National Institutes of Health (NIH).
Contrastingly, while William & Mary has a strong reputation for undergraduate research and interdisciplinary studies, its funding levels for basic science research are usually lower due to its focus on liberal arts and its size compared to larger research institutions. Therefore, if you are looking at overall funding and emphasis on basic science research, Wake Forest University generally leads.

It's just frankly bad faith to obsessively continue to try reframing this to an argument about current strengths and current funding. Nobody is arguing Wake that wake doesn't have significantly more money right now. That has not once been said or even implied. My whole point (which I've started multiple times) is they're planning to diversify and change that.

If you look at the massive new school of computing facility which just opened or the health sciences building they're actively planning you cannot possibly convince yourself that the end goal isn't to diversify.

It’s just bad faith to conclude that William and Mary is the only school doing this. They all do constantly. Princeton just rebuilt a quarter of its campus. Wake has a 2034 project to guide its growth. https://prod.wp.cdn.aws.wfu.edu/sites/472/2023/08/Strategic-Framework.pdf. Wake is also in the midst of the Grounds construction project which is a hundred acre mixed use project that will add student housing, retail and restaurants right next to campus and will be completed in 2027. Every single dorm was either built or completely renovated within the last decade. Administrative departments are being moved to the Grounds to deer more room for academic buildings on campus.

Better link. https://framework.wfu.edu/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Wake has lots of rich kids. W&M prob less so.

Wake has better ROI and can compete outside of regional placement for jobs. It will get closer to top 25 in a few years.

Wak is nowhere near being a top 25

Dp, but why this again. When us news decides to eliminate the dei factors it’s used for the last year or two, Wake will likely be back on the T30, just as it was for over 25 straight years.

But we all know they won't, and since Wake isn't really looking to grow research they'll continue to be punished

So will William and Mary, the schools excel based on class size and having full professors teachers. The research factors are less than 5 percent of score and focus only on overall number of citations. Schools the size of Wake or William and Mary simply can’t compete with the the large flagships on this criteria, they don’t have the same raw numbers of faculty.

W&M is certainly trying to grow research now that it's R1. Will obviously never be able to compete with flagships but it can probably catch up to bigger research privates

Doubtful, it doesn’t even have a medical school.

There are plenty of bigger research schools without a med school. You can still do health related research without one - I imagine the new bioengineering program they're adding will ramp up with that pretty quickly.

My student is premed. She could go to Wake, where she can take classes with medical schools faculty, works in labs with her professors at a school that has well over $300 million in biomedical funding, and shadow her professors at Wake Med.

Or she could go to William and Mary, which has no medical school and a total of $81 million in research funding, nearly all of which is not biomedical.

This is hilarious if you think the difference in medical school admissions would change because you did research at Wake rather than WM.

You couldn’t do the same research at William and Mary. I assume students have to do it over the summer at another institution, or do outcomes research instead of basic science. Similarly, Wake students would have to go elsewhere to do the marine sciences research offered at William and Mary. It’s always better if research can be done at home institution because students can continue over multiple semesters as opposed to a shorter summer experience. Part of the reason Emory is very popular for premed students is that it it has its own medical school and is right next to the CDC, offering additional internship experiences.

You have failed to understand my point - that’s not what’s getting your kid into medical school.

[Anonymous]

Record number of applications again this year for Wake, acceptance rate down to 18 percent. https://admissions.wfu.edu/2026/03/an-update-from-admissions-032026/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Describe the strengths of the research programs at William and Mary and Wake Forest. Which program has more money for basic science research.

**Research Strengths of William & Mary:**
1. **Interdisciplinary Research:** William & Mary is known for its strong emphasis on interdisciplinary research, particularly at the intersection of sciences, humanities, and social sciences. The faculty often collaborate across disciplines, fostering innovative approaches to complex problems.
2. **Focus Areas:** The university has developed notable strengths in environmental science, marine science, and psychological sciences. Its proximity to the Chesapeake Bay and the Virginia coast enhances its capabilities in marine and environmental research.
3. **Undergraduate Research Opportunities:** William & Mary prioritizes undergraduate involvement in research, providing students with opportunities to engage in meaningful projects, often alongside faculty members, which fosters a strong research culture.
4. **Historic and Cultural Research:** Given its history as one of the oldest universities in the United States, William & Mary also excels in the fields of American history, colonial studies, and public policy.
**Research Strengths of Wake Forest University:**
1. **Biomedical Research:** Wake Forest is particularly strong in biomedical research, particularly in the School of Medicine. The university has made significant contributions in areas like regenerative medicine, cancer research, and public health.
2. **Clinical Research:** The Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center is a vital part of the university's research infrastructure, facilitating substantial clinical trials and enhancing the academic community’s focus on translational research that bridges laboratory discoveries to patient care.
3. **Innovations in Health Sciences:** Wake Forest leads in research on health disparities, aging, and obesity, underscoring its commitment to addressing pressing societal health challenges through innovative research.
4. **Collaboration with Industry:** The university actively collaborates with industries, fostering partnerships that support applied research and the commercialization of discoveries, enhancing its impact on both local and global scales.
**Funding for Basic Science Research:**
In terms of overall funding for basic science research, Wake Forest University typically has more significant financial resources compared to William & Mary. Wake Forest's substantial investments in biomedical and clinical research, along with its affiliated medical center, lead to higher funding levels, particularly from national institutes like the National Institutes of Health (NIH).
Contrastingly, while William & Mary has a strong reputation for undergraduate research and interdisciplinary studies, its funding levels for basic science research are usually lower due to its focus on liberal arts and its size compared to larger research institutions. Therefore, if you are looking at overall funding and emphasis on basic science research, Wake Forest University generally leads.

It's just frankly bad faith to obsessively continue to try reframing this to an argument about current strengths and current funding. Nobody is arguing Wake that wake doesn't have significantly more money right now. That has not once been said or even implied. My whole point (which I've started multiple times) is they're planning to diversify and change that.

If you look at the massive new school of computing facility which just opened or the health sciences building they're actively planning you cannot possibly convince yourself that the end goal isn't to diversify.

It’s just bad faith to conclude that William and Mary is the only school doing this. They all do constantly. Princeton just rebuilt a quarter of its campus. Wake has a 2034 project to guide its growth. https://prod.wp.cdn.aws.wfu.edu/sites/472/2023/08/Strategic-Framework.pdf. Wake is also in the midst of the Grounds construction project which is a hundred acre mixed use project that will add student housing, retail and restaurants right next to campus and will be completed in 2027. Every single dorm was either built or completely renovated within the last decade. Administrative departments are being moved to the Grounds to deer more room for academic buildings on campus.

Show me where I claimed that please