Disney primarily for the wealthy? NYT Article

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:We had a Disney week and had fun, but see no need to do that again. The ratio of price to planning work was very off

For any other trip/experience, the extra money, extra organizing and hoops would have resulted in some superior and seamless experience however with Disney it’s just getting you to enjoyable level

I find that any trip takes SO much planning these days. We went to UK and France this summer and I couldn’t believe the amount of preplanning I had to do and really didn’t enjoy it. Same with national park trips with lots of stops. I am familiar with Disney so those trips are actually easier for me, but unless you are just going to the beach most trips require a lot of research and planning if you want to see “the good stuff” - whatever that means for where you decide to go.

I like theme park trips because I know where we will be all day, what we will eat, where the parking is etc. When I price out a day of meals and activities from other vacations Disney isn’t always more expensive either

Exactly and when we went to Europe this summer all the tickets and tours I had to buy for sightseeing really added up! And the hotel prices were outrageous because I needed two rooms for 4 people. It easily cost as much as Disney.

Oh, a trip for four people to another continent cost as much as going to a theme park in Florida? Crazy

There are people on this very thread saying Europe is cheaper than Disney. That’s not true for most and Orlando is much easier for many reasons. I don’t go to Europe for 4 nights, I will go to Florida if that’s all the time I have

I've priced it many times, and 10 days in Europe is always cheaper or similar in cost to 4-5 days at Disney. That makes Europe cheaper. The extra cost for plane tickets is obliterated by the cost of park tickets, hotels, and extras.

Also, when we go to Europe, we always find a lot of stuff to do that is free or close to it but really rewarding. Having a picnic in Paris with a view of the Eiffel Tower was like a top 5 travel moment for my kids and it cost us like $20. When we were in Copenhagen, we bough the Copenhagen Card which gets you access to a ton of museums, boat tours, plus pays for all your train travel around the region. I think the card as like $100 per person for 5 days. And only DH and I had to buy them -- if an adult gets one, the kids get one free. So for $200 we did a canal tour of Copenhagen, visited two castles, went to the Viking museum, traveled outside the city to a couple small towns in Denmark where we did a boat tour on a lake, went to the zoo, went to the children's museum, etc. Also in Copenhagen, we went to Tivoli Gardens like three times, road all the rides, saw a concert, went out to dinner there multiple times, and spent, tops $250 on all of that because Tivoli is insanely family friendly and you can get in cheap without buying a ride pass, or you can get a ride pass for everything for like $65 or something, I can't remember. It was all so inexpensive. And it's a gorgeous amusement park with beautiful landscaping, great restaurants, etc. Not as big as Disney but our kids had a blast and it's less crowded with a more relaxed atmosphere and fewer lines. I'd go there again in a heartbeat. I will never go to Disney again.

Disney is just not good value. You are buying nostalgia and this corner of American culture that Disney cornered the market on. Your money does not actually buy you a superior experience or fun. For a lot of people it's worth it to get the photos and to buy their kids what many now consider to be a childhood rite of passage for Americans. But objectively, there are a million other vacations that give you more actual entertainment for your money. Everything from national parks to Caribbean beaches to European cities. Disney feels like an elaborate marketing delusion.

You're not traveling or accounting for a family of 5. I would need 2 hotel rooms in Europe. Disney can accommodate a family of 5 in one room. Accommodations alone are much more expensive in Europe for larger families.

You can get a two bedroom apartment in most European cities for less than a large hotel room on property at Disney.

Also some European chains have rooms that will accommodate a family of 5. In Copenhagen (which really is an incredibly family-friendly city, I highly recommend it) the Scandic chain has large rooms that can accommodate a family of 5.

Other than London and Paris, I've found accommodations in Europe to be vastly more affordable than in the US. Depending on timing you can also often benefit from a favorable exchange rate.

Listen disney is expensive and there are plenty of reasons it might not be up people's alley but acting like you could easily pull off a 10 day trip to europe at the same cost of a four day trip to disney is just absurd. And like pointless they are entirely different experiences and both can be done on a trim budget or lux budget and somewhere in between.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This whole thread is gross!

All of these so-called vacations to Disney and Europe are only made possible for your family as a direct result of your unearned white privilege.

Both disney and europe are filled with plenty of non white people, get out a bit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We had a Disney week and had fun, but see no need to do that again. The ratio of price to planning work was very off

For any other trip/experience, the extra money, extra organizing and hoops would have resulted in some superior and seamless experience however with Disney it’s just getting you to enjoyable level

I find that any trip takes SO much planning these days. We went to UK and France this summer and I couldn’t believe the amount of preplanning I had to do and really didn’t enjoy it. Same with national park trips with lots of stops. I am familiar with Disney so those trips are actually easier for me, but unless you are just going to the beach most trips require a lot of research and planning if you want to see “the good stuff” - whatever that means for where you decide to go.

I like theme park trips because I know where we will be all day, what we will eat, where the parking is etc. When I price out a day of meals and activities from other vacations Disney isn’t always more expensive either

Exactly and when we went to Europe this summer all the tickets and tours I had to buy for sightseeing really added up! And the hotel prices were outrageous because I needed two rooms for 4 people. It easily cost as much as Disney.

Oh, a trip for four people to another continent cost as much as going to a theme park in Florida? Crazy

There are people on this very thread saying Europe is cheaper than Disney. That’s not true for most and Orlando is much easier for many reasons. I don’t go to Europe for 4 nights, I will go to Florida if that’s all the time I have

I've priced it many times, and 10 days in Europe is always cheaper or similar in cost to 4-5 days at Disney. That makes Europe cheaper. The extra cost for plane tickets is obliterated by the cost of park tickets, hotels, and extras.

Also, when we go to Europe, we always find a lot of stuff to do that is free or close to it but really rewarding. Having a picnic in Paris with a view of the Eiffel Tower was like a top 5 travel moment for my kids and it cost us like $20. When we were in Copenhagen, we bough the Copenhagen Card which gets you access to a ton of museums, boat tours, plus pays for all your train travel around the region. I think the card as like $100 per person for 5 days. And only DH and I had to buy them -- if an adult gets one, the kids get one free. So for $200 we did a canal tour of Copenhagen, visited two castles, went to the Viking museum, traveled outside the city to a couple small towns in Denmark where we did a boat tour on a lake, went to the zoo, went to the children's museum, etc. Also in Copenhagen, we went to Tivoli Gardens like three times, road all the rides, saw a concert, went out to dinner there multiple times, and spent, tops $250 on all of that because Tivoli is insanely family friendly and you can get in cheap without buying a ride pass, or you can get a ride pass for everything for like $65 or something, I can't remember. It was all so inexpensive. And it's a gorgeous amusement park with beautiful landscaping, great restaurants, etc. Not as big as Disney but our kids had a blast and it's less crowded with a more relaxed atmosphere and fewer lines. I'd go there again in a heartbeat. I will never go to Disney again.

Disney is just not good value. You are buying nostalgia and this corner of American culture that Disney cornered the market on. Your money does not actually buy you a superior experience or fun. For a lot of people it's worth it to get the photos and to buy their kids what many now consider to be a childhood rite of passage for Americans. But objectively, there are a million other vacations that give you more actual entertainment for your money. Everything from national parks to Caribbean beaches to European cities. Disney feels like an elaborate marketing delusion.

You're not traveling or accounting for a family of 5. I would need 2 hotel rooms in Europe. Disney can accommodate a family of 5 in one room. Accommodations alone are much more expensive in Europe for larger families.

You can get a two bedroom apartment in most European cities for less than a large hotel room on property at Disney.

Also some European chains have rooms that will accommodate a family of 5. In Copenhagen (which really is an incredibly family-friendly city, I highly recommend it) the Scandic chain has large rooms that can accommodate a family of 5.

Other than London and Paris, I've found accommodations in Europe to be vastly more affordable than in the US. Depending on timing you can also often benefit from a favorable exchange rate.

Listen disney is expensive and there are plenty of reasons it might not be up people's alley but acting like you could easily pull off a 10 day trip to europe at the same cost of a four day trip to disney is just absurd. And like pointless they are entirely different experiences and both can be done on a trim budget or lux budget and somewhere in between.

Without more detail I think PP is not disclosing that they used miles and Marriott (Bonvoy) points or something similar to pull it off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can go to London, stay in nicer accommodations, eat better food, not wait in lines, take your kids to large play places and slides, and see some real Norman castles for less money. Or go take your kid hiking and lake swimming for far less.

Having grown up in Orlando I really did used to have a fondness for the parks. But the magic just isn't there anymore.

Does London have GoG and Space Mountain

Space Mountain is a standard coaster that's just in the dark and they blow air at you. It's really not that special. The best coaster in Orlando isn't even at Disney.

If you have no soul then no, Disney is not the place for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can go to London, stay in nicer accommodations, eat better food, not wait in lines, take your kids to large play places and slides, and see some real Norman castles for less money. Or go take your kid hiking and lake swimming for far less.

Having grown up in Orlando I really did used to have a fondness for the parks. But the magic just isn't there anymore.

Does London have GoG and Space Mountain

Space Mountain is a standard coaster that's just in the dark and they blow air at you. It's really not that special. The best coaster in Orlando isn't even at Disney.

If you have no soul then no, Disney is not the place for you.

The older I get the less I want to be on wild coaster anyway. Even the teacups are becoming too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm always a little perplexed by these posters that are like "Disney was so much better when I was a kid! I don't want to wait in these long lines!" But you can still go on the SAME rides you went on as a kid with basically no lines. No one is waiting in long lines for Carousel of Progress or Figment Journey into Imagination. Even Dumbo has pretty short lines. There are a few exceptions -- Peter Pan because it's a terribly designed loading process; Space Mountain for reasons not known to man. But generally, the older rides have basically no wait times so you can still go and have that same 1980s experience!

Nope. I went in the 80s with my parents and again in the 00s with my kids, the experience was very different.

In the 80s, the focus was on theming. There was so much imagination and detailed charm that it dazzled. In the 00s, the focus was more on thrills, with a sprinkling of theming on top. I was so excited that they had returned to the Figment theme for the Imagination Pavilion that I hyped it up and dragged my kids there. They had significantly shortened the ride and greatly reduced the details, with an overemphasis on black lights and glow in the dark paint. It felt more like a cheesy funhouse fair ride than a magical Disney experience. The ImageWorks was just an empty room that had been closed off. When we left the pavilion, I was depressed and my family was confused why I’d made them waste their time. Meanwhile they’d added roller coasters and other thrill based rides, but if that’s what I wanted I could get them from any local amusement park with cheaper admission tickets, shorter lines, and without having to travel and stay in a hotel.

Also, when we went in the 80s, it was utterly pristine. Surely any place that had that many visitors daily must be magical for there to be not a stray piece of litter, not a speck of gum, not a trace of dust anywhere. Fastforward to the 2000s, and not only was there the expected detritus of a crowd, but the rides themselves showed a lack of care. There was dust on the animatronic figures costumes and a lot of the older rides just seemed run-down.

Now, in addition to hiking up the basic admission prices, unless you are willing to pay extra for lightning passes, you are basically a second-class visitor, whose line waits are prolonged because you have to make way for the elites who won’t wait their turns.

Basically, people are paying more for less. With Disney becoming more like a standard theme park than a magical world, it’s a lot less appealing to pay more, wait in longer lines, and be reminded that your wait is lengthened because you’re a second class visitor. The feeling is less that the park is there to give you joy than that you’re there to give it profit.

This I agree with. copy and paste and send to the Disney board. We like all the run down stuff (like Carousel of Progress) but Disney is clearly getting left in the dust on theming other than the Starwars stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can go to London, stay in nicer accommodations, eat better food, not wait in lines, take your kids to large play places and slides, and see some real Norman castles for less money. Or go take your kid hiking and lake swimming for far less.

Having grown up in Orlando I really did used to have a fondness for the parks. But the magic just isn't there anymore.

Does London have GoG and Space Mountain

Space Mountain is a standard coaster that's just in the dark and they blow air at you. It's really not that special. The best coaster in Orlando isn't even at Disney.

Velocicoaster or Hagrid’s?

I've done Stardust Racers several times and it's a real contender for best in Orlando. It's just non-stop fun and the dueling loop is just amazing.

I can’t wait! how long was the line or did you get express pass?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I remember going to Disney as a kid and having a great time. There was no real pre-planning. We just showed up and hopped from ride to ride. Even paper lightning lanes didn't really change our flow.

I've gone twice with my kids in modern times and didn't enjoy either. We're in the upper income bracket and paid for the perks and still didn't have fun.

The first time the kids were little and we splurged for Polynesian to be on the monorail and close to MK. The parks had FP+. There ended up being a glitch in the tech system and we had tons and tons of trouble accessing the FP system, leading to us waiting in hour plus long lines several times a day to try to get it fixed. It was awful and we still had to zig zag the park with little kids to make ride times. We were so stressed and it wasn't fun at all. There was also a bunch of maintenance going on, presumably because we were there in the off season, so pre-booked FPs would be lost and we'd arrive at rides to find they were down, plus all the other lines were longer because big attractions weren't running. Plus I'd booked and paid a fortune for a couple of character meals, only to find out my toddler was terrified of the characters and would scream her head off if they even came into the room. We had to give up on those very, very expensive meals altogether. The whole experience was miserable.

We went back a few years later after the Lightning Lanes opened. I did a ton of research this time and knew all the tricks. But we arrived on a day with a major lightning storm that took out most of the rides at MK for most of the week. That same storm had people camping out at their table at Cinderella's table so we waited 4 hours for our reservation with hungry kids in pouring rain because the people ahead of us weren't leaving. The whole place was in chaos. Then we'd booked another specialty meal at a restaurant and the kitchen caught on fire and we lost half a park day waiting to recover our belongings after being evacuated for a fire. We tried to get dinner in Epcot World showcase one night and all of the lines were so long from a festival that we eventually went back to our hotel room and ordered a pizza. There was just no reasonable way to get food with the insane lines. I could go on, but the entire trip was a series of disasters from a broken Disney bus that left us stranded for two hours on a park road to waiting an hour in line to have the ride go down when we were up next.

Disney didn't make any of this right for us. The level of service was so so low for the cost. The parks were so so crowded. I'm slightly intrigued about the new Premiere Pass and not having to be on a schedule and being more able to work around ride closures, but I'm not sure I can be convinced. We just paid so much on the prior trips for shitty experiences and stress. The Disney adults can have Disney. We'll go elsewhere.

Sounds like you definitely had bad luck but a lot of that was chosing activities that weren’t a good fit - the expensive sit down meals. Disney isn’t a place to enjoy eating. You get quick service meals and have frequent snack breaks. You plan for the high capacity/low line attractions to fill gaps. You don’t spend dumb money on Polynesian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We had a Disney week and had fun, but see no need to do that again. The ratio of price to planning work was very off

For any other trip/experience, the extra money, extra organizing and hoops would have resulted in some superior and seamless experience however with Disney it’s just getting you to enjoyable level

And kids prefer a Disney vacation over a European one! My kids have traveled all over the country and world, and Disney is still their top vacation spot…Hawaii is a close second.
I find that any trip takes SO much planning these days. We went to UK and France this summer and I couldn’t believe the amount of preplanning I had to do and really didn’t enjoy it. Same with national park trips with lots of stops. I am familiar with Disney so those trips are actually easier for me, but unless you are just going to the beach most trips require a lot of research and planning if you want to see “the good stuff” - whatever that means for where you decide to go.

I like theme park trips because I know where we will be all day, what we will eat, where the parking is etc. When I price out a day of meals and activities from other vacations Disney isn’t always more expensive either

Exactly and when we went to Europe this summer all the tickets and tours I had to buy for sightseeing really added up! And the hotel prices were outrageous because I needed two rooms for 4 people. It easily cost as much as Disney.

Oh, a trip for four people to another continent cost as much as going to a theme park in Florida? Crazy

There are people on this very thread saying Europe is cheaper than Disney. That’s not true for most and Orlando is much easier for many reasons. I don’t go to Europe for 4 nights, I will go to Florida if that’s all the time I have

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can go to London, stay in nicer accommodations, eat better food, not wait in lines, take your kids to large play places and slides, and see some real Norman castles for less money. Or go take your kid hiking and lake swimming for far less.

Having grown up in Orlando I really did used to have a fondness for the parks. But the magic just isn't there anymore.

Does London have GoG and Space Mountain

Space Mountain is a standard coaster that's just in the dark and they blow air at you. It's really not that special. The best coaster in Orlando isn't even at Disney.

If you have no soul then no, Disney is not the place for you.

The older I get the less I want to be on wild coaster anyway. Even the teacups are becoming too much.

You may be surprised that some of the bigger and newer coasters feel less “wild” even if they go faster and have bigger drops.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can go to London, stay in nicer accommodations, eat better food, not wait in lines, take your kids to large play places and slides, and see some real Norman castles for less money. Or go take your kid hiking and lake swimming for far less.

Having grown up in Orlando I really did used to have a fondness for the parks. But the magic just isn't there anymore.

Does London have GoG and Space Mountain

Space Mountain is a standard coaster that's just in the dark and they blow air at you. It's really not that special. The best coaster in Orlando isn't even at Disney.

If you have no soul then no, Disney is not the place for you.

The older I get the less I want to be on wild coaster anyway. Even the teacups are becoming too much.

You may be surprised that some of the bigger and newer coasters feel less “wild” even if they go faster and have bigger drops.

Going faster with bigger drops isn't really going to change my mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can go to London, stay in nicer accommodations, eat better food, not wait in lines, take your kids to large play places and slides, and see some real Norman castles for less money. Or go take your kid hiking and lake swimming for far less.

Having grown up in Orlando I really did used to have a fondness for the parks. But the magic just isn't there anymore.

Does London have GoG and Space Mountain

Space Mountain is a standard coaster that's just in the dark and they blow air at you. It's really not that special. The best coaster in Orlando isn't even at Disney.

If you have no soul then no, Disney is not the place for you.

The older I get the less I want to be on wild coaster anyway. Even the teacups are becoming too much.

You may be surprised that some of the bigger and newer coasters feel less “wild” even if they go faster and have bigger drops.

Going faster with bigger drops isn't really going to change my mind.

Do it!! for reals, Space Mountain in the dark is much scarier than the “hyper coaster” I just went on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can go to London, stay in nicer accommodations, eat better food, not wait in lines, take your kids to large play places and slides, and see some real Norman castles for less money. Or go take your kid hiking and lake swimming for far less.

Having grown up in Orlando I really did used to have a fondness for the parks. But the magic just isn't there anymore.

Does London have GoG and Space Mountain

Space Mountain is a standard coaster that's just in the dark and they blow air at you. It's really not that special. The best coaster in Orlando isn't even at Disney.

Velocicoaster or Hagrid’s?

I've done Stardust Racers several times and it's a real contender for best in Orlando. It's just non-stop fun and the dueling loop is just amazing.

I can’t wait! how long was the line or did you get express pass?

I was last at Epic Universe not long after the official open, I think first week of June. We didn't do any special passes.

At the time, wait times were relatively low for most rides, except Ministry for which we did single rider. Ministry was 45 mins in single rider, and Donkey Kong was 30 mins after a late ride opening.

On Stardust Racers, there was almost no line before the lockers. And very little line after the lockers. Monsters Unleashed had no line at all. I know though it's different now.

We rode the front, back, and middle on Stardust. Back is the best for experiencing the racing aspect, which is the real treat on that ride. Front you lose a bit of the thrill.

[Anonymous]

Most people I know who are obsessed with Disney are not super wealthy. In fact, many of them are in debt, but obsessed with posting pictures on social media of their lives. They think the height of luxury is 4 days at Disney over spring break and then a week at Fenwick Island, and they live in the same town they grew up in in Towson or something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can go to London, stay in nicer accommodations, eat better food, not wait in lines, take your kids to large play places and slides, and see some real Norman castles for less money. Or go take your kid hiking and lake swimming for far less.

Having grown up in Orlando I really did used to have a fondness for the parks. But the magic just isn't there anymore.

Does London have GoG and Space Mountain

Space Mountain is a standard coaster that's just in the dark and they blow air at you. It's really not that special. The best coaster in Orlando isn't even at Disney.

Velocicoaster or Hagrid’s?

I've done Stardust Racers several times and it's a real contender for best in Orlando. It's just non-stop fun and the dueling loop is just amazing.

I can’t wait! how long was the line or did you get express pass?

I was last at Epic Universe not long after the official open, I think first week of June. We didn't do any special passes.

At the time, wait times were relatively low for most rides, except Ministry for which we did single rider. Ministry was 45 mins in single rider, and Donkey Kong was 30 mins after a late ride opening.

On Stardust Racers, there was almost no line before the lockers. And very little line after the lockers. Monsters Unleashed had no line at all. I know though it's different now.

We rode the front, back, and middle on Stardust. Back is the best for experiencing the racing aspect, which is the real treat on that ride. Front you lose a bit of the thrill.

Thanks sounds like a great trip!