The Hidden Burden on Middle-Class Families in Public Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s a liberal mindset that you have to sacrifice yourself and your children for the benefit of others. Sorry, but I “noped” out of that way of thinking years ago.

I went to public schools all my life and they were wonderful, but I had to send my kids to Catholic school to get a similar education for them.

We still pay taxes so the system gets money for schools we don’t use. That’s enough sacrifice from me.

Is it a liberal mindset though? Wouldn't a true liberal want mixed-income schools (as opposed to very wealthy/very poor schools), more resources for everyone, and the like? I consider myself somewhat progressive and the segregated schools in our district don't align with my values.

I was referring to the notion that parents have an obligation to send their kids to public schools, regardless of the current state of those schools, and should feel shame if they don’t.

I don’t believe anyone other than a very very small group of true believers actually thinks that let alone actually makes decisions based on it. I happen to believe public is better for my particular kid but that’s not because my “values” demand it. I do get annoyed when parents peel off for charters and privates but not so much due to values but because it seemed like they were just chasing the latest trend, especially with charters.

Private schools existed in 1606 in this land, so it is hardly the "latest trend."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm super bummed when people peel off for privates, when I thought their values aligned more with ours in being part of public school and the wider community. Whether they're super wealthy or not. We could afford private (it would be a stretch, but...) trying hard to put my money where my mouth is and keep my kids in public - and invest in public.

+1

We value our public schools and choose to send our kids to our local schools and invest our time in the school community.

We are all better off with good public schools. It’s a shame when people GAF.

My kids are not a charity. I’m not sacrificing their education to help another kid learn reading and math.

I just checked out an expensive private schools’ curriculum. It offers fewer electives and AP classes than our public does. I don’t feel like I’m sacrificing much, but I”m not the one out 60K each year.

the more students you have in a school the more courses you need to offer. Your kid won't be able to take more classes there than at a small school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s mind boggling to me why education in US is so subpar compared to poorer countries like India or Russia.

American teachers are as a majority very mediocre and are poorly educated themselves.

DC is a selective state public magnet school and they teach to level to get a 3 in AP classes. They had to do a special class in 9th grade on punctuation and in 10th grade on how to use the ruler and protractor. They’re teaching chemistry with open book for every quiz and test. DC barely has homework in high school because the teachers don’t want to grade it. The bar is so low.

You're kidding right? There are no special needs kids or IEPs in Russian or Indian schools, they don't go to school or are institutionalized. Kids are kicked out for misbehavior and dumped from school to school. There is one language and way fewer non native speakers and the society is more homogenous. Russia is passing legislation that kids and parents of Caucasian republic immigrants need to speak Russian to go to school. They funnel boys to the army at 18. In India there are school fees and you pick the school based on what you can afford and it's one of the few ways out of desperate poverty. Those too poor don't go to school at all.

If US education is so good, why is the country full of idiots?

Republicans keep defunding schools.

100% this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm super bummed when people peel off for privates, when I thought their values aligned more with ours in being part of public school and the wider community. Whether they're super wealthy or not. We could afford private (it would be a stretch, but...) trying hard to put my money where my mouth is and keep my kids in public - and invest in public.

+1

We value our public schools and choose to send our kids to our local schools and invest our time in the school community.

We are all better off with good public schools. It’s a shame when people GAF.

My kids are not a charity. I’m not sacrificing their education to help another kid learn reading and math.

I just checked out an expensive private schools’ curriculum. It offers fewer electives and AP classes than our public does. I don’t feel like I’m sacrificing much, but I”m not the one out 60K each year.

the more students you have in a school the more courses you need to offer. Your kid won't be able to take more classes there than at a small school.

Silly, I’m not talking about the sections of each course. I’m saying: There are more orchestra and band and chorus levels with higher performing kids in them. There are higher levels of AP physics at the public than the private and more AP languages offered at the public than the private. Social studies AP is fairly similar, but at the public, kids can take APs in Freshman year, but at the private they have to wait until 11th. Literally a better and higher level of education at the public than the private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My support of public schools is paying taxes. I did not attend public school nor do my children. Never thought about feeling any guilt.

I'm envious of my DD's private HS education. It's everything my public school was not. I wonder if she appreciates it lol.

I'm a product of fancy privates, and my kids go to well-regarded publics. I'm sure they'll be more successful. I lived in an unrealistic bubble for all my formative years.

Yeah my wife was privately educated and was a bit of a hot house flower when we met in college, and the early working years were hard for her. She definitely got "better" schooling, but we decided to stick with our average publics based on her experience.

The problem is the your average public now isn't on par with your average public 25-30 years ago.

Agreed!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My support of public schools is paying taxes. I did not attend public school nor do my children. Never thought about feeling any guilt.

I'm envious of my DD's private HS education. It's everything my public school was not. I wonder if she appreciates it lol.

I'm a product of fancy privates, and my kids go to well-regarded publics. I'm sure they'll be more successful. I lived in an unrealistic bubble for all my formative years.

Yeah my wife was privately educated and was a bit of a hot house flower when we met in college, and the early working years were hard for her. She definitely got "better" schooling, but we decided to stick with our average publics based on her experience.

The problem is the your average public now isn't on par with your average public 25-30 years ago.

Maybe the nice suburban school districts have declined, but MCPS is still light-years better than what I got in random public school districts forty years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s mind boggling to me why education in US is so subpar compared to poorer countries like India or Russia.

American teachers are as a majority very mediocre and are poorly educated themselves.

DC is a selective state public magnet school and they teach to level to get a 3 in AP classes. They had to do a special class in 9th grade on punctuation and in 10th grade on how to use the ruler and protractor. They’re teaching chemistry with open book for every quiz and test. DC barely has homework in high school because the teachers don’t want to grade it. The bar is so low.

You're kidding right? There are no special needs kids or IEPs in Russian or Indian schools, they don't go to school or are institutionalized. Kids are kicked out for misbehavior and dumped from school to school. There is one language and way fewer non native speakers and the society is more homogenous. Russia is passing legislation that kids and parents of Caucasian republic immigrants need to speak Russian to go to school. They funnel boys to the army at 18. In India there are school fees and you pick the school based on what you can afford and it's one of the few ways out of desperate poverty. Those too poor don't go to school at all.

If US education is so good, why is the country full of idiots?

Republicans keep defunding schools.

100% this.

Agree but Dems keep lowering ans eliminating standards. Schools also keep adding non-academic services and administration. I wonder what the ratio between classroom teachers to admin in FCPS is today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are correct OP. Some of the snarky, shaming voices are starting to quiet as the problem is accelerating. All of my friends who were public school teachers have now left within the last 5 years, because of the obvious problems you cite. Unless you are in a high income, segregated neighborhood, public schools are over.

This!

The FARMs rate has been trending up at almost every public school in the DC metro area. It’s becoming increasingly difficult to find a school under 20%. Fairfax county has gone from 10% in 1991 to 30% FARMs today. MOCO went from 13% to 41% in the same time period. Prince William county went from 10% to 43%. Prince George’s county went from 20% to 65%. Loudoun County went from 7%-23%. There is going to be a massive exodus of UMC, families to privates over the next decade because the number of places where school have higher manageable levels of economically deprived students is growing exponentially. Schools teach to the lowest common denominator and kids in your class don’t know how to read by the time they start kindergarten, kids with involved parents that do won’t learn anything for a couple years.

I kinda doubt most kids of any socioeconomic background can read when they start K. Where did you get that idea from?

I was able to read books in preschool and my spouse was reading when they were 3 years old. It’s absurd to me that a kid that is 5 or 6 is not able to read when they start kindergarten. Only kids that are stupid or have uninvolved parents don’t know how to read by this age.

It's not developmentally appropriate to sit your kid down and teach them to read that young. If they pick stuff up at storytime, fine, but kids are supposed to be playing outside and pretending at this age.

Only stupid parents don't know this.

When a kid is pestering you daily to teach them to read, it's time to teach them to read. If average children aren't ready early that's fine, and if your own child wasn't ready to learn his letters until 7 that's fine, they won't be crippled in life because they didn't start at 5. There are outliers. Only midwits refuse to acknowledge this.

It’s only very basic, unimaginative parents looking to virtue signal who emphasize learning to read at a young age (and have children who pick up that and “beg” to learn). I agree with PP that it’s not developmentally appropriate and there are so many better physical and imaginative things to do.

Signed, parent of two children who entered K not knowing how to read… and were at 2nd or 3rd grade reading level by the end of the year (and it only went up from there)

[Anonymous]

One time, at band camp, one parent virtue signaled claiming they must stay in public to support equity when in reality, they cannot afford private or are too cheap. That's the reality for sure.

This thread premise is an imaginary crisis or dilemma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are correct OP. Some of the snarky, shaming voices are starting to quiet as the problem is accelerating. All of my friends who were public school teachers have now left within the last 5 years, because of the obvious problems you cite. Unless you are in a high income, segregated neighborhood, public schools are over.

This!

The FARMs rate has been trending up at almost every public school in the DC metro area. It’s becoming increasingly difficult to find a school under 20%. Fairfax county has gone from 10% in 1991 to 30% FARMs today. MOCO went from 13% to 41% in the same time period. Prince William county went from 10% to 43%. Prince George’s county went from 20% to 65%. Loudoun County went from 7%-23%. There is going to be a massive exodus of UMC, families to privates over the next decade because the number of places where school have higher manageable levels of economically deprived students is growing exponentially. Schools teach to the lowest common denominator and kids in your class don’t know how to read by the time they start kindergarten, kids with involved parents that do won’t learn anything for a couple years.

I kinda doubt most kids of any socioeconomic background can read when they start K. Where did you get that idea from?

I was able to read books in preschool and my spouse was reading when they were 3 years old. It’s absurd to me that a kid that is 5 or 6 is not able to read when they start kindergarten. Only kids that are stupid or have uninvolved parents don’t know how to read by this age.

It's not developmentally appropriate to sit your kid down and teach them to read that young. If they pick stuff up at storytime, fine, but kids are supposed to be playing outside and pretending at this age.

Only stupid parents don't know this.

When a kid is pestering you daily to teach them to read, it's time to teach them to read. If average children aren't ready early that's fine, and if your own child wasn't ready to learn his letters until 7 that's fine, they won't be crippled in life because they didn't start at 5. There are outliers. Only midwits refuse to acknowledge this.

It’s only very basic, unimaginative parents looking to virtue signal who emphasize learning to read at a young age (and have children who pick up that and “beg” to learn). I agree with PP that it’s not developmentally appropriate and there are so many better physical and imaginative things to do.

Signed, parent of two children who entered K not knowing how to read… and were at 2nd or 3rd grade reading level by the end of the year (and it only went up from there)

DP. It’s only very clueless, unintelligent parents who buy into notions that reading is not “developmentally appropriate.” These are the same type of people who brought Lucy Calkins and Fountas and Pinnell to schools all over the country.

You don’t have to drill your 4 year old. But if they’re ready, they’re ready. Just because your kids weren’t doesn’t mean other kids aren’t. That’s the way development works at these ages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s mind boggling to me why education in US is so subpar compared to poorer countries like India or Russia.

American teachers are as a majority very mediocre and are poorly educated themselves.

DC is a selective state public magnet school and they teach to level to get a 3 in AP classes. They had to do a special class in 9th grade on punctuation and in 10th grade on how to use the ruler and protractor. They’re teaching chemistry with open book for every quiz and test. DC barely has homework in high school because the teachers don’t want to grade it. The bar is so low.

You're kidding right? There are no special needs kids or IEPs in Russian or Indian schools, they don't go to school or are institutionalized. Kids are kicked out for misbehavior and dumped from school to school. There is one language and way fewer non native speakers and the society is more homogenous. Russia is passing legislation that kids and parents of Caucasian republic immigrants need to speak Russian to go to school. They funnel boys to the army at 18. In India there are school fees and you pick the school based on what you can afford and it's one of the few ways out of desperate poverty. Those too poor don't go to school at all.

If US education is so good, why is the country full of idiots?

Republicans keep defunding schools.

100% this.

Agree but Dems keep lowering ans eliminating standards. Schools also keep adding non-academic services and administration. I wonder what the ratio between classroom teachers to admin in FCPS is today.

Is that how you pick college? Does your high schooler need to be “coddled” (borrowing that word from MAGA!) with smaller classes to pass APs? Mine doesn’t and is looking forward to an AP class as a Freshman. That is something privates don’t offer. AP classes aren’t run by dems or republicans. The test is the same regardless if you are in public or private. No one is dumbing down those tests and schools are offering harder and a wider array of AP classes than ever before. IF your kid is engaged in school and somewhat driven, public works great and has more offerings than private.

Maybe your comment is like DOGE- it sounds great to look into fraud and government waste, but when you get into it you have to release statements like “oh look there really isn’t fraud!” Or lie to people to claim there is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are correct OP. Some of the snarky, shaming voices are starting to quiet as the problem is accelerating. All of my friends who were public school teachers have now left within the last 5 years, because of the obvious problems you cite. Unless you are in a high income, segregated neighborhood, public schools are over.

This!

The FARMs rate has been trending up at almost every public school in the DC metro area. It’s becoming increasingly difficult to find a school under 20%. Fairfax county has gone from 10% in 1991 to 30% FARMs today. MOCO went from 13% to 41% in the same time period. Prince William county went from 10% to 43%. Prince George’s county went from 20% to 65%. Loudoun County went from 7%-23%. There is going to be a massive exodus of UMC, families to privates over the next decade because the number of places where school have higher manageable levels of economically deprived students is growing exponentially. Schools teach to the lowest common denominator and kids in your class don’t know how to read by the time they start kindergarten, kids with involved parents that do won’t learn anything for a couple years.

I kinda doubt most kids of any socioeconomic background can read when they start K. Where did you get that idea from?

I was able to read books in preschool and my spouse was reading when they were 3 years old. It’s absurd to me that a kid that is 5 or 6 is not able to read when they start kindergarten. Only kids that are stupid or have uninvolved parents don’t know how to read by this age.

It's not developmentally appropriate to sit your kid down and teach them to read that young. If they pick stuff up at storytime, fine, but kids are supposed to be playing outside and pretending at this age.

Only stupid parents don't know this.

When a kid is pestering you daily to teach them to read, it's time to teach them to read. If average children aren't ready early that's fine, and if your own child wasn't ready to learn his letters until 7 that's fine, they won't be crippled in life because they didn't start at 5. There are outliers. Only midwits refuse to acknowledge this.

Midwits is my new favorite word.

I still think you are a troll, but you are a funny troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm super bummed when people peel off for privates, when I thought their values aligned more with ours in being part of public school and the wider community. Whether they're super wealthy or not. We could afford private (it would be a stretch, but...) trying hard to put my money where my mouth is and keep my kids in public - and invest in public.

+1

We value our public schools and choose to send our kids to our local schools and invest our time in the school community.

We are all better off with good public schools. It’s a shame when people GAF.

My kids are not a charity. I’m not sacrificing their education to help another kid learn reading and math.

I just checked out an expensive private schools’ curriculum. It offers fewer electives and AP classes than our public does. I don’t feel like I’m sacrificing much, but I”m not the one out 60K each year.

the more students you have in a school the more courses you need to offer. Your kid won't be able to take more classes there than at a small school.

Silly, I’m not talking about the sections of each course. I’m saying: There are more orchestra and band and chorus levels with higher performing kids in them. There are higher levels of AP physics at the public than the private and more AP languages offered at the public than the private. Social studies AP is fairly similar, but at the public, kids can take APs in Freshman year, but at the private they have to wait until 11th. Literally a better and higher level of education at the public than the private.

You can get an excellent education/experience at a public high school with broad academic and extracurricular offerings, agreed. I think high school is where it makes most sense to switch from private to public, even though many folks prefer public until high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are correct OP. Some of the snarky, shaming voices are starting to quiet as the problem is accelerating. All of my friends who were public school teachers have now left within the last 5 years, because of the obvious problems you cite. Unless you are in a high income, segregated neighborhood, public schools are over.

This!

The FARMs rate has been trending up at almost every public school in the DC metro area. It’s becoming increasingly difficult to find a school under 20%. Fairfax county has gone from 10% in 1991 to 30% FARMs today. MOCO went from 13% to 41% in the same time period. Prince William county went from 10% to 43%. Prince George’s county went from 20% to 65%. Loudoun County went from 7%-23%. There is going to be a massive exodus of UMC, families to privates over the next decade because the number of places where school have higher manageable levels of economically deprived students is growing exponentially. Schools teach to the lowest common denominator and kids in your class don’t know how to read by the time they start kindergarten, kids with involved parents that do won’t learn anything for a couple years.

I kinda doubt most kids of any socioeconomic background can read when they start K. Where did you get that idea from?

Yeah, I don’t think the dumbing down of curriculum and moving away from best practices are the result of FARMS only. My district is 5% FARMS are it’s abandoned the science of reading, slowed elementary math curriculum by a whole grade level, and gotten rid of leveling/tracking. Don’t get me started on the district adopting Writers Workshop for 7 year olds.

Sooner or later it will sink in with more people that government school is government school no matter the makeup of the student body.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are correct OP. Some of the snarky, shaming voices are starting to quiet as the problem is accelerating. All of my friends who were public school teachers have now left within the last 5 years, because of the obvious problems you cite. Unless you are in a high income, segregated neighborhood, public schools are over.

This!

The FARMs rate has been trending up at almost every public school in the DC metro area. It’s becoming increasingly difficult to find a school under 20%. Fairfax county has gone from 10% in 1991 to 30% FARMs today. MOCO went from 13% to 41% in the same time period. Prince William county went from 10% to 43%. Prince George’s county went from 20% to 65%. Loudoun County went from 7%-23%. There is going to be a massive exodus of UMC, families to privates over the next decade because the number of places where school have higher manageable levels of economically deprived students is growing exponentially. Schools teach to the lowest common denominator and kids in your class don’t know how to read by the time they start kindergarten, kids with involved parents that do won’t learn anything for a couple years.

I kinda doubt most kids of any socioeconomic background can read when they start K. Where did you get that idea from?

I was able to read books in preschool and my spouse was reading when they were 3 years old. It’s absurd to me that a kid that is 5 or 6 is not able to read when they start kindergarten. Only kids that are stupid or have uninvolved parents don’t know how to read by this age.

It's not developmentally appropriate to sit your kid down and teach them to read that young. If they pick stuff up at storytime, fine, but kids are supposed to be playing outside and pretending at this age.

Only stupid parents don't know this.

When a kid is pestering you daily to teach them to read, it's time to teach them to read. If average children aren't ready early that's fine, and if your own child wasn't ready to learn his letters until 7 that's fine, they won't be crippled in life because they didn't start at 5. There are outliers. Only midwits refuse to acknowledge this.

It’s only very basic, unimaginative parents looking to virtue signal who emphasize learning to read at a young age (and have children who pick up that and “beg” to learn). I agree with PP that it’s not developmentally appropriate and there are so many better physical and imaginative things to do.

Signed, parent of two children who entered K not knowing how to read… and were at 2nd or 3rd grade reading level by the end of the year (and it only went up from there)

There you go again feeling inferior for no reason. Smh.