West Point or Air Force or Navy academies? Anyone with experiences to share?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP- only listen to the responses from people who actually went to an academy or did ROTC themselves of currently have a child doing either. All of these “my husband 20 yrs ago” my “close relative” ect. are pretty irrelevant and/or wrong.

Op here. Yes, thanks and agree. And to add, I am not a fan of this current admin but my dc isn’t going to make a career choice based on what books are in the USMA library. My military family members trend toward Dem but they all lived and survived under admins they didn’t love. And Ds is agnostic.

It’s not “the books”. It’s the embrace of white supremacy, dishonesty, and a narrow minded education. He can still be a doctor outside of the military. No other administration embraced the nazi salute, disappeared people, or ignored the courts.

Grads are being asked to encourage kids to join right now because there’s less interest. None of the grads I know feel they can, in good conscience, do this.

But since you don’t care, start with a medical exam. I hope your son has the personal strength to not follow illegal orders.

Honestly - get over yourself telling 18 year olds they are to blame for the current admin - you could say all the same you said here to everyone working at Big Law or any federal agency, FBI, DoJ, ICE, Homeland Security, DoD, SSA, IRS, or the Kennedy Center, or the Smithsonian. BTW, Trump will be out of office before OP's kid serves in the military.

Honestly, your thinking ability and reading comprehension are limited. I didn’t blame 18 year olds. I almost envy your naïveté.

And I admire your moral superiority! Telling OP she "doesn't care" about "white supremacy, dishonesty, and a narrow minded education" for inquiring about sending her kid to a service academy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is in Air Force ROTC. He is a freshman and it has been a good experience for him. Made most of his friends through AFROTC. He is not on scholarship. Students can apply for a (very competitive) scholarship freshman year, but if they don't get that, they can still join (they do get a few perks even without the scholarship, like selecting courses first each semester). Summer after sophomore year, they go through basic training, and if they get through that, they then officially commit to service and receive a scholarship ($18,000 year) for the remaining 2 years of school, plus a small stipend (I can't remember how much but maybe $400 a month?). It is a serious time commitment and playing a sport on top of that would be a really serious time commitment. My son looked at doing Corps of Cadets at VT and that seemed more extreme than he wanted so he went with ROTC. If your DC does ROTC I'd recommend making sure the detachment is located on campus (one detachment may serve several nearby schools, I think my son's AFROTC detachment has members from 5 colleges, but his campus is the home base, and where most of the activities occur).

My friend's son graduated USMA and is now in a top medical school. It is a great path because the military pays for medical school but be aware that they also only allow so many kids from each graduating class to choose to go to medical school, so the ability to apply is gated in some way.

Thanks for the response. Can you say a little more about the time commitment during the school year? I’ve heard mixed things. Relatives told me it’s just a fairly easy class a semester and then obviously time in the summer for boot camp. Is there a lot more than that during the school year? If ds did ROTC, he would not do a D1 school for his sport. He’d go to a D3 school with ROTC. The sports is a must, so we have to find a way to balance that as ds is dead set on continuing in college (and admittedly that’s an admission hook for him)

There is a military science class every semester (I get the impression it's pretty easy, but it is an additional thing to worry about if your DC is in a rigorous major like engineering, and it can mess up the kid's schedule. Like my DS has to push a required course for his major to the Spring because it is in conflict with his military science course). There is PT a couple of times a week, so they need to get up early. DS now gets up early every weekday and works out most mornings that he doesn't have PT just to stay on track. If your kid does a sport though, he would get his additional workouts through practice. There seems to be a fair amount of things they are doing on Saturdays that are several hours of commitment. This past weekend DS was actually in Atlanta (1000 miles from his school) for a ROTC conference. He also will go back to school early Sophomore year because he's been selected to assist with ROTC Orientation before classes begin. The basic training summer after Sophomore year is not that long, but could conflict with desired internships. Of DS's AFROTC friends I only know of one doing a varsity sport (Football) but there could be others. This is at a D3 school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is in Air Force ROTC. He is a freshman and it has been a good experience for him. Made most of his friends through AFROTC. He is not on scholarship. Students can apply for a (very competitive) scholarship freshman year, but if they don't get that, they can still join (they do get a few perks even without the scholarship, like selecting courses first each semester). Summer after sophomore year, they go through basic training, and if they get through that, they then officially commit to service and receive a scholarship ($18,000 year) for the remaining 2 years of school, plus a small stipend (I can't remember how much but maybe $400 a month?). It is a serious time commitment and playing a sport on top of that would be a really serious time commitment. My son looked at doing Corps of Cadets at VT and that seemed more extreme than he wanted so he went with ROTC. If your DC does ROTC I'd recommend making sure the detachment is located on campus (one detachment may serve several nearby schools, I think my son's AFROTC detachment has members from 5 colleges, but his campus is the home base, and where most of the activities occur).

My friend's son graduated USMA and is now in a top medical school. It is a great path because the military pays for medical school but be aware that they also only allow so many kids from each graduating class to choose to go to medical school, so the ability to apply is gated in some way.

Thanks for the response. Can you say a little more about the time commitment during the school year? I’ve heard mixed things. Relatives told me it’s just a fairly easy class a semester and then obviously time in the summer for boot camp. Is there a lot more than that during the school year? If ds did ROTC, he would not do a D1 school for his sport. He’d go to a D3 school with ROTC. The sports is a must, so we have to find a way to balance that as ds is dead set on continuing in college (and admittedly that’s an admission hook for him)

There is a military science class every semester (I get the impression it's pretty easy, but it is an additional thing to worry about if your DC is in a rigorous major like engineering, and it can mess up the kid's schedule. Like my DS has to push a required course for his major to the Spring because it is in conflict with his military science course). There is PT a couple of times a week, so they need to get up early. DS now gets up early every weekday and works out most mornings that he doesn't have PT just to stay on track. If your kid does a sport though, he would get his additional workouts through practice. There seems to be a fair amount of things they are doing on Saturdays that are several hours of commitment. This past weekend DS was actually in Atlanta (1000 miles from his school) for a ROTC conference. He also will go back to school early Sophomore year because he's been selected to assist with ROTC Orientation before classes begin. The basic training summer after Sophomore year is not that long, but could conflict with desired internships. Of DS's AFROTC friends I only know of one doing a varsity sport (Football) but there could be others. This is at a D3 school.

Thanks, this is very helpful info

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is in Air Force ROTC. He is a freshman and it has been a good experience for him. Made most of his friends through AFROTC. He is not on scholarship. Students can apply for a (very competitive) scholarship freshman year, but if they don't get that, they can still join (they do get a few perks even without the scholarship, like selecting courses first each semester). Summer after sophomore year, they go through basic training, and if they get through that, they then officially commit to service and receive a scholarship ($18,000 year) for the remaining 2 years of school, plus a small stipend (I can't remember how much but maybe $400 a month?). It is a serious time commitment and playing a sport on top of that would be a really serious time commitment. My son looked at doing Corps of Cadets at VT and that seemed more extreme than he wanted so he went with ROTC. If your DC does ROTC I'd recommend making sure the detachment is located on campus (one detachment may serve several nearby schools, I think my son's AFROTC detachment has members from 5 colleges, but his campus is the home base, and where most of the activities occur).

My friend's son graduated USMA and is now in a top medical school. It is a great path because the military pays for medical school but be aware that they also only allow so many kids from each graduating class to choose to go to medical school, so the ability to apply is gated in some way.

Thanks for the response. Can you say a little more about the time commitment during the school year? I’ve heard mixed things. Relatives told me it’s just a fairly easy class a semester and then obviously time in the summer for boot camp. Is there a lot more than that during the school year? If ds did ROTC, he would not do a D1 school for his sport. He’d go to a D3 school with ROTC. The sports is a must, so we have to find a way to balance that as ds is dead set on continuing in college (and admittedly that’s an admission hook for him)

DP, but I was on Army ROTC scholarship. I think it would doable with a D3 sport. Especially freshman and sophomore year, when the ROTC requirements aren’t as heavy. There is a class one day per week and a lab once per week. Neither are academic rigorous, but you do need to attend and participate. Then there is physical training that happens 3 mornings a week. If you are on scholarship, this is mandatory, however, I do think they would work with a student athlete. While you could miss every PT session, because it is part of your larger training/testing, I think it could be adjusted. There are very few weekend requirements, maybe once in fall, once in spring. Otherwise weekend activity and training is typically optional and part of rotc subset clubs. Junior year involves more time commitment because you are training for your summer evaluations. Not a huge amount more, but they will be less likely to let a student skip things junior year and maybe an extra weekend training. Then the summer before junior and senior year you go to a “advanced leadership course” where you are given various leadership roles and evaluated. That is about a month long. It is NOT basic training. Senior year you are given a leadership role within ROTC. Some roles are a large time commitment, some aren’t. Students that have difficult schedules/majors are typically given the lighter roles.

All in all, ROTC is ran by real people and they have the ability to be quite flexible, if they find it in their best interest. I had a very difficult major, but also an in demand future army role- and I was given a lot of flexibility. I imagine they would extend the same to a student athlete if they felt he/she was a great candidate and would serve the army well.

[Anonymous]

If the only reason he’s interested is because he’s being recruited, I strongly advise against.

Academies are not for everyone and it takes a lot of personal drive and inner strength to get through. You have to WANT it. It’s not just a free ride for a degree.

[Anonymous]

To OP -

My DS is an incoming Plebe at USNA. He did not apply to any other academies, but did receive a full tier 1 NROTC scholarship. He applied to, and was admitted, to one Ivy, one Ivy plus, and two public Ivies (take these titles with a grain of salt, but all are highly desirable dcum schools). That is all to say he had options.

He chose USNA because he wants the discipline, the suffering, the shared experience, the potentially better summer placements, and Annapolis. He wants to be an officer. He wants sea stories. He wants adventure. He isn’t a typical fraternity type that likes to socialize and party.

His large public high school regularly sends one kid/year to an academy. All are top students and hold leadership positions in and out of school. All are athletes, either the varsity or club level. None have been recruited athletes, so I can’t speak to that process.

I was told by another USNA mom that it isn’t just your son that goes to the academy. It is the entire family. This isn’t regular college. These kids are making big decisions at a young age and being pushed to their extremes mentally and physically. The worry will always be there. For my son, he will graduate and deploy under the next administration. That is still a long time away.

I would suggest watching the Army-Navy game 2017 intro online. If you or your child connect in any way to the complex emotions presented, then please proceed and do so with clear eyes and a goal to wrap up the application over the summer. If this video doesn’t pull at you, then this isn’t the right path. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Sibling went to USNA. Spouse and I did Army ROTC. During my time, there were a handful of athletes (D1). ROTC was accommodating because class was at night. PT was waived for athletes, but they needed to do everything else.

3 kids in ROTC (Army X 2 and AF). There are D1 athletes in ROTC. Flexibility depends on the detachment. Class attendance also depends on the detachment. One of my kids needed to miss academic class for ROTC and one of my kids could miss ROTC for academic class. Crosstown programs are not a big deal for my kids- but likely depends on distance and requirements of detachment.

Best of luck to your son!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The service academies have around a 33% dropout rate and outcomes for droup outs are not great. Look to your left look to your right one of you won't be here at graduation.

If your child is a borderline case it's better they don't go and become a dropout. After sophomore year you owe big $$$ if you don't finish as well.

The academies are a great place to be from there's no denying that. If you're on this forum debating which one has the better undergraduate experience you are approaching this from entirely the wrong mindset.

This, exactly. I dated a guy at USNA and it was brutal. He was an ideal candidate, but after plebe summer he looked absolutely cowed. I couldn’t believe how mean the other students were to the underclassmen. He didn’t get any demerits one week, so they just made them up. If your student is at all hesitant, do ROTC. I’d never let my child do USNA, just based on what I saw and was told.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The service academies have around a 33% dropout rate and outcomes for droup outs are not great. Look to your left look to your right one of you won't be here at graduation.

If your child is a borderline case it's better they don't go and become a dropout. After sophomore year you owe big $$$ if you don't finish as well.

The academies are a great place to be from there's no denying that. If you're on this forum debating which one has the better undergraduate experience you are approaching this from entirely the wrong mindset.

This, exactly. I dated a guy at USNA and it was brutal. He was an ideal candidate, but after plebe summer he looked absolutely cowed. I couldn’t believe how mean the other students were to the underclassmen.

If you can’t handle that, how are you going to handle combat? Tell the enemy “stop being so mean, you’re hurting my feelings”? 🙄

Military academies should be tough to weed out weaklings like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:USNA consistently produces the highest earners, if that matters. It's a top notch education, and the alumni connections are insane. (DH is an academy grad). They hire each other like nothing I've ever seen, not even w/the Ivies.

He graduated in the late 90s, served as a Marine Officer, got out, went to a FAANG and is now a CEO at another tech company.


It's a good path to med school, they'll pay for everything. Have several friends that did that, and did their residencies and time in service at Bethesda Naval Hospital.

I would take a lot of what you're going to get on here with a grain of salt. DCUM really skews weirdly that way.

This is interesting, thank you for responding with real world experience (unlike others who clearly don’t). As a very focused athlete and strong student from a strict high school environment, my dc is not worried about the discipline and the lifestyle, but he IS worried about being called for active combat, as I’m sure many are when entering this field. I don’t have an answer to that really. None of my relatives who were in the military (officers, not enlisted) came particularly near active combat, but maybe they just got lucky, idk. And I appreciate that’s part of the deal.

If he is worried about combat, go AirForce or Navy.

The ary combat is real combat. Navy is ships and air force is often from a distance in a safe location

[Anonymous]

I hope your son has the personal strength to not follow illegal orders.

What are these illegal orders you are performatively outraged about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:USNA consistently produces the highest earners, if that matters. It's a top notch education, and the alumni connections are insane. (DH is an academy grad). They hire each other like nothing I've ever seen, not even w/the Ivies.

He graduated in the late 90s, served as a Marine Officer, got out, went to a FAANG and is now a CEO at another tech company.


It's a good path to med school, they'll pay for everything. Have several friends that did that, and did their residencies and time in service at Bethesda Naval Hospital.

I would take a lot of what you're going to get on here with a grain of salt. DCUM really skews weirdly that way.

This is interesting, thank you for responding with real world experience (unlike others who clearly don’t). As a very focused athlete and strong student from a strict high school environment, my dc is not worried about the discipline and the lifestyle, but he IS worried about being called for active combat, as I’m sure many are when entering this field. I don’t have an answer to that really. None of my relatives who were in the military (officers, not enlisted) came particularly near active combat, but maybe they just got lucky, idk. And I appreciate that’s part of the deal.

If he is worried about combat, go AirForce or Navy.

The ary combat is real combat. Navy is ships and air force is often from a distance in a safe location

If we get in a shooting war with China in the next 5-10 years, which is not at all impossible, then the Air Force and Navy will not be safe, they will take very heavy casualties.

[Anonymous]

I did navy rotc and my spouse went to Annapolis. I actually think my “normal college” experience was tougher because i was trying maintain a navy standard while at a party school. Every weekend there was an opportunity for something bad to happen that could threaten my scholarship…should I leave this party with underage drinking before the cops come? …do I need to leave because someone is smoking pot even though it’s legal in the state but I get randomly drug tested? Stuff like that. The academy was more insulated and everyone was on the same program. They were all in it together. My spouse also developed lifelong friendships/bonds, whereas I did not.

Generally, it’s navy - army - Air Force for prestige, but I know af has a great academy to medical doctor program. At the end of the day it’s what experience you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:USNA consistently produces the highest earners, if that matters. It's a top notch education, and the alumni connections are insane. (DH is an academy grad). They hire each other like nothing I've ever seen, not even w/the Ivies.

He graduated in the late 90s, served as a Marine Officer, got out, went to a FAANG and is now a CEO at another tech company.


It's a good path to med school, they'll pay for everything. Have several friends that did that, and did their residencies and time in service at Bethesda Naval Hospital.

I would take a lot of what you're going to get on here with a grain of salt. DCUM really skews weirdly that way.

This is interesting, thank you for responding with real world experience (unlike others who clearly don’t). As a very focused athlete and strong student from a strict high school environment, my dc is not worried about the discipline and the lifestyle, but he IS worried about being called for active combat, as I’m sure many are when entering this field. I don’t have an answer to that really. None of my relatives who were in the military (officers, not enlisted) came particularly near active combat, but maybe they just got lucky, idk. And I appreciate that’s part of the deal.

If he is worried about combat, go AirForce or Navy.

The ary combat is real combat. Navy is ships and air force is often from a distance in a safe location

If he is worried about combat, he shouldn’t go into the military- any branch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP- only listen to the responses from people who actually went to an academy or did ROTC themselves of currently have a child doing either. All of these “my husband 20 yrs ago” my “close relative” ect. are pretty irrelevant and/or wrong.

Op here. Yes, thanks and agree. And to add, I am not a fan of this current admin but my dc isn’t going to make a career choice based on what books are in the USMA library. My military family members trend toward Dem but they all lived and survived under admins they didn’t love. And Ds is agnostic.

It’s not “the books”. It’s the embrace of white supremacy, dishonesty, and a narrow minded education. He can still be a doctor outside of the military. No other administration embraced the nazi salute, disappeared people, or ignored the courts.

Grads are being asked to encourage kids to join right now because there’s less interest. None of the grads I know feel they can, in good conscience, do this.

But since you don’t care, start with a medical exam. I hope your son has the personal strength to not follow illegal orders.

The issue of less interest was real but it was over the past 4 years and is already showing signs that it's resolving under the new administration. We are a USNA family who lives in ANP and have ties to admissions. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.