What can regular people do to help prevent Trump's election?

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Stop demonizing people you disagree with. Someone can disagree with you without being heartless and evil or ignorant and stupid. Two opposing sides can sincerely want the best for both America the country and the individual people within it, and just disagree on what that is.

Most people who are pro-life don’t hate women.

Most people who are concerned about illegal immigration aren’t racist.

Most people who own a gun aren’t psychopaths on the verge of a massacre.

The whole gender thing is fairly new. For millenia, most of the world associated sex and gender. Suddenly, within the past decade, there is only one “correct” way to view gender and it runs contrary to the way people long expected society to run. Anytime society swings from one extreme to another, there’s a tendency for it to go too far. It might be healthy for society to be questioning these changes and challenge everyone’s assumptions of their positions, regardless of what their positions are. If someone doesn’t think it makes sense for someone biologically male to compete in women’s sports or doesn’t want to have to keep stating their pronouns, it doesn’t mean that they hate transgendered people.

There are lots of issues, most of which involve a lot of middle ground and gray areas.

Even if you can’t come to an agreement on one issue, there may be another where you can be allies. Conservatives aren’t inherently a hive-minded monolith any more than liberals are, they will disagree amongst themselves on different issues. Granted, the Trump cult (which is NOT conservative) seems to be incredibly effective at brainwashing, so it’s going to take extra effort to break through to them.

Finally, have the humility and honesty to consider the fact that you and/or the Democratic party might actually be wrong. Human nature is inherently fallible. None of us is perfect and we all are wrong sometimes. Just consider the outside possibility when discussing the issues that any given issue might be one on which you are not 100% right and they are not 100% wrong. There’s lots of gray areas and there’s a good chance both sides may simultaneously be a little bit right and a little bit wrong. If we listen to each other, both sides might learn from each other and be able to make a little progress.

At the very least, according to the maxim “Know your enemy”, you’ll know them a lot better if you let them tell you who they are rather than you trying to tell them who they are. [/quote]

Roe was middle ground compromise. It allowed the choice to be made privately by the woman involved. You could hold your views and live your life by your views and other women could hold their own views. No one was forcing their beliefs on another woman.

The abortion bans are draconian and show zero respect for my daughter's private beliefs and private division making. There is no middle ground and grey area with these abortion bans. They are absolutely anti woman.[/quote]

If Roe were the middle ground choice then its terms would be passed by state legislatures (not unelected judges who aren’t law makers). But the fact is it isn’t for many of the states. Some like NY want more relaxed restrictions than we had under Roe and some like S.C. want more restrictive. There isn’t a blanket opinion on this because the voters in the various states don’t agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stop demonizing people you disagree with. Someone can disagree with you without being heartless and evil or ignorant and stupid. Two opposing sides can sincerely want the best for both America the country and the individual people within it, and just disagree on what that is.

Most people who are pro-life don’t hate women.

Most people who are concerned about illegal immigration aren’t racist.

Most people who own a gun aren’t psychopaths on the verge of a massacre.

The whole gender thing is fairly new. For millenia, most of the world associated sex and gender. Suddenly, within the past decade, there is only one “correct” way to view gender and it runs contrary to the way people long expected society to run. Anytime society swings from one extreme to another, there’s a tendency for it to go too far. It might be healthy for society to be questioning these changes and challenge everyone’s assumptions of their positions, regardless of what their positions are. If someone doesn’t think it makes sense for someone biologically male to compete in women’s sports or doesn’t want to have to keep stating their pronouns, it doesn’t mean that they hate transgendered people.

There are lots of issues, most of which involve a lot of middle ground and gray areas.

Even if you can’t come to an agreement on one issue, there may be another where you can be allies. Conservatives aren’t inherently a hive-minded monolith any more than liberals are, they will disagree amongst themselves on different issues. Granted, the Trump cult (which is NOT conservative) seems to be incredibly effective at brainwashing, so it’s going to take extra effort to break through to them.

Finally, have the humility and honesty to consider the fact that you and/or the Democratic party might actually be wrong. Human nature is inherently fallible. None of us is perfect and we all are wrong sometimes. Just consider the outside possibility when discussing the issues that any given issue might be one on which you are not 100% right and they are not 100% wrong. There’s lots of gray areas and there’s a good chance both sides may simultaneously be a little bit right and a little bit wrong. If we listen to each other, both sides might learn from each other and be able to make a little progress.

At the very least, according to the maxim “Know your enemy”, you’ll know them a lot better if you let them tell you who they are rather than you trying to tell them who they are.

You aren't a monolithic bloc? Then SHOW it. PROVE it. Stand up against the parts of the agenda that you disagree with. Vote against it. Stop sending campaign contributions. Write articles, letters to the editor, and so on. Talk to your members of Congress and express your disagreement. We aren't seeing 99.9% of you do that. The media and the pundits aren't seeing you do that. The pollsters aren't seeing you do that. The party officials and consultants and candidates aren't seeing you do that. All we see is you agreeing, donating, voting, rubberstamping and going along with all things SCOTUS, and all things Trump. THEY clearly all see you as a monolithic bloc, too, given how they act, how they write policy, how they legislate, how they rule on court cases and so on. So it's not at all how "Democrats" see you - EVERYONE sees you that way.

You're going to have to do a lot more and do a lot better to actually have a hope of any credibility in your complaints here. A LOT MORE AND A LOT BETTER. Until we see it, you only keep making the Democrats' point.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Stop demonizing people you disagree with. Someone can disagree with you without being heartless and evil or ignorant and stupid. Two opposing sides can sincerely want the best for both America the country and the individual people within it, and just disagree on what that is.

Most people who are pro-life don’t hate women.

Most people who are concerned about illegal immigration aren’t racist.

Most people who own a gun aren’t psychopaths on the verge of a massacre.

The whole gender thing is fairly new. For millenia, most of the world associated sex and gender. Suddenly, within the past decade, there is only one “correct” way to view gender and it runs contrary to the way people long expected society to run. Anytime society swings from one extreme to another, there’s a tendency for it to go too far. It might be healthy for society to be questioning these changes and challenge everyone’s assumptions of their positions, regardless of what their positions are. If someone doesn’t think it makes sense for someone biologically male to compete in women’s sports or doesn’t want to have to keep stating their pronouns, it doesn’t mean that they hate transgendered people.

There are lots of issues, most of which involve a lot of middle ground and gray areas.

Even if you can’t come to an agreement on one issue, there may be another where you can be allies. Conservatives aren’t inherently a hive-minded monolith any more than liberals are, they will disagree amongst themselves on different issues. Granted, the Trump cult (which is NOT conservative) seems to be incredibly effective at brainwashing, so it’s going to take extra effort to break through to them.

Finally, have the humility and honesty to consider the fact that you and/or the Democratic party might actually be wrong. Human nature is inherently fallible. None of us is perfect and we all are wrong sometimes. Just consider the outside possibility when discussing the issues that any given issue might be one on which you are not 100% right and they are not 100% wrong. There’s lots of gray areas and there’s a good chance both sides may simultaneously be a little bit right and a little bit wrong. If we listen to each other, both sides might learn from each other and be able to make a little progress.

At the very least, according to the maxim “Know your enemy”, you’ll know them a lot better if you let them tell you who they are rather than you trying to tell them who they are. [/quote]

You aren't a monolithic bloc? Then SHOW it. PROVE it. Stand up against the parts of the agenda that you disagree with. We aren't seeing you do that. The media and the pundits aren't seeing you do that. The candidates aren't seeing you do that. All we see is you agreeing, donating, voting, rubberstamping and going along with all things SCOTUS, and all things Trump.

You're going to have to do a lot more and do a lot better to actually have a hope of any credibility in your complaints here. A LOT MORE AND A LOT BETTER.[/quote]

I’m the pp you’re responding to. You seem to have misunderstood my position. I am a conservative who is completely anti-Trump and anti-MAGA. I, like many other conservatives (Lincoln Project, for example), are doing everything we can to oppose this. We have come out publicly to denounce the threat Trump poses to democracy. We are voting Democratic ourselves, and trying to convince our friends and families who are still in the Republican camp to do likewise. The OP of this thread asked how people can help defeat Trump and we are trying to help you by telling how to stop pushing voters away.

If YOU really want to defeat Trump, then stop turning our help away along with potential voters you seem intent on alienating. Can we agree that the main goal this election is to preserve democracy this election so that in the future we will have the freedom to return to arguing over specific issues? If in the future stereotyping and name-calling is more important to you than winning votes, I won’t care, but right now I want us to defeat Trump. You already have the votes of people who agree with you, but we need the votes of those who don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop demonizing people you disagree with. Someone can disagree with you without being heartless and evil or ignorant and stupid. Two opposing sides can sincerely want the best for both America the country and the individual people within it, and just disagree on what that is.

Most people who are pro-life don’t hate women.

Most people who are concerned about illegal immigration aren’t racist.

Most people who own a gun aren’t psychopaths on the verge of a massacre.

The whole gender thing is fairly new. For millenia, most of the world associated sex and gender. Suddenly, within the past decade, there is only one “correct” way to view gender and it runs contrary to the way people long expected society to run. Anytime society swings from one extreme to another, there’s a tendency for it to go too far. It might be healthy for society to be questioning these changes and challenge everyone’s assumptions of their positions, regardless of what their positions are. If someone doesn’t think it makes sense for someone biologically male to compete in women’s sports or doesn’t want to have to keep stating their pronouns, it doesn’t mean that they hate transgendered people.

There are lots of issues, most of which involve a lot of middle ground and gray areas.

Even if you can’t come to an agreement on one issue, there may be another where you can be allies. Conservatives aren’t inherently a hive-minded monolith any more than liberals are, they will disagree amongst themselves on different issues. Granted, the Trump cult (which is NOT conservative) seems to be incredibly effective at brainwashing, so it’s going to take extra effort to break through to them.

Finally, have the humility and honesty to consider the fact that you and/or the Democratic party might actually be wrong. Human nature is inherently fallible. None of us is perfect and we all are wrong sometimes. Just consider the outside possibility when discussing the issues that any given issue might be one on which you are not 100% right and they are not 100% wrong. There’s lots of gray areas and there’s a good chance both sides may simultaneously be a little bit right and a little bit wrong. If we listen to each other, both sides might learn from each other and be able to make a little progress.

At the very least, according to the maxim “Know your enemy”, you’ll know them a lot better if you let them tell you who they are rather than you trying to tell them who they are.

You aren't a monolithic bloc? Then SHOW it. PROVE it. Stand up against the parts of the agenda that you disagree with. Vote against it. Stop sending campaign contributions. Write articles, letters to the editor, and so on. Talk to your members of Congress and express your disagreement. We aren't seeing 99.9% of you do that. The media and the pundits aren't seeing you do that. The pollsters aren't seeing you do that. The party officials and consultants and candidates aren't seeing you do that. All we see is you agreeing, donating, voting, rubberstamping and going along with all things SCOTUS, and all things Trump. THEY clearly all see you as a monolithic bloc, too, given how they act, how they write policy, how they legislate, how they rule on court cases and so on. So it's not at all how "Democrats" see you - EVERYONE sees you that way.

You're going to have to do a lot more and do a lot better to actually have a hope of any credibility in your complaints here. A LOT MORE AND A LOT BETTER. Until we see it, you only keep making the Democrats' point.

I’m the pp you’re responding to. You seem to have misunderstood my position. I am a conservative who is completely anti-Trump and anti-MAGA. I, like many other conservatives (Lincoln Project, for example), are doing everything we can to oppose this. We have come out publicly to denounce the threat Trump poses to democracy. We are voting Democratic ourselves, and trying to convince our friends and families who are still in the Republican camp to do likewise. The OP of this thread asked how people can help defeat Trump and we are trying to help you by telling how to stop pushing voters away.

If YOU really want to defeat Trump, then stop turning our help away along with potential voters you seem intent on alienating. Can we agree that the main goal this election is to preserve democracy this election so that in the future we will have the freedom to return to arguing over specific issues? If in the future stereotyping and name-calling is more important to you than winning votes, I won’t care, but right now I want us to defeat Trump. You already have the votes of people who agree with you, but we need the votes of those who don’t.

[Anonymous]

Lincoln Project and other anti-Trump Republicans seem to be in the extreme minority and are being completely ignored by your party bosses. They clearly don't care about your opinions and worse yet are outright demonizing you - they constantly trash and demonize and vilify the Lincoln Project and Liz Cheney and Kinzinger and anyone else who dares buck the almighty Trump. If you aren't the extreme minority then you need to start working even harder to rally more like-minded Republicans, because right now all we see is Trump completely steamrolling the GOP and anyone who's ever been a Republican - if you so much as sniffle at Trump they will brand you a traitor and suggest you be given a military tribunal like they did with Liz Cheney. That's what's at stake. You're either all-in with Trump or you might end up on some deranged list of "traitors" to be persecuted - sadly saying this stuff out loud isn't even hyperbolic or a parody anymore. I myself was a Republican for almost 30 years. I don't even recognize the deranged entity that the GOP has become now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lincoln Project and other anti-Trump Republicans seem to be in the extreme minority and are being completely ignored by your party bosses. They clearly don't care about your opinions and worse yet are outright demonizing you - they constantly trash and demonize and vilify the Lincoln Project and Liz Cheney and Kinzinger and anyone else who dares buck the almighty Trump. If you aren't the extreme minority then you need to start working even harder to rally more like-minded Republicans, because right now all we see is Trump completely steamrolling the GOP and anyone who's ever been a Republican - if you so much as sniffle at Trump they will brand you a traitor and suggest you be given a military tribunal like they did with Liz Cheney. That's what's at stake. You're either all-in with Trump or you might end up on some deranged list of "traitors" to be persecuted - sadly saying this stuff out loud isn't even hyperbolic or a parody anymore. I myself was a Republican for almost 30 years. I don't even recognize the deranged entity that the GOP has become now.

There's no room for dissent in the Party of Trump - https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/politics/trump-liz-cheney-military-tribunal/index.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lincoln Project and other anti-Trump Republicans seem to be in the extreme minority and are being completely ignored by your party bosses. They clearly don't care about your opinions and worse yet are outright demonizing you - they constantly trash and demonize and vilify the Lincoln Project and Liz Cheney and Kinzinger and anyone else who dares buck the almighty Trump. If you aren't the extreme minority then you need to start working even harder to rally more like-minded Republicans, because right now all we see is Trump completely steamrolling the GOP and anyone who's ever been a Republican - if you so much as sniffle at Trump they will brand you a traitor and suggest you be given a military tribunal like they did with Liz Cheney. That's what's at stake. You're either all-in with Trump or you might end up on some deranged list of "traitors" to be persecuted - sadly saying this stuff out loud isn't even hyperbolic or a parody anymore. I myself was a Republican for almost 30 years. I don't even recognize the deranged entity that the GOP has become now.

Doing The Work is reward enough!

Shouting at people you agree with there-their- job is to de-cult nameless faceless others is insane. Completely, totally insane and ineffective. Probably the most one can do is physically help to get D voters in need of assistance to the polls in swing states. The rest is noise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lincoln Project and other anti-Trump Republicans seem to be in the extreme minority and are being completely ignored by your party bosses. They clearly don't care about your opinions and worse yet are outright demonizing you - they constantly trash and demonize and vilify the Lincoln Project and Liz Cheney and Kinzinger and anyone else who dares buck the almighty Trump. If you aren't the extreme minority then you need to start working even harder to rally more like-minded Republicans, because right now all we see is Trump completely steamrolling the GOP and anyone who's ever been a Republican - if you so much as sniffle at Trump they will brand you a traitor and suggest you be given a military tribunal like they did with Liz Cheney. That's what's at stake. You're either all-in with Trump or you might end up on some deranged list of "traitors" to be persecuted - sadly saying this stuff out loud isn't even hyperbolic or a parody anymore. I myself was a Republican for almost 30 years. I don't even recognize the deranged entity that the GOP has become now.

Again, there seems to be a misunderstanding. Not all conservatives are Republicans. In fact, I would say many conservatives no longer consider themselves Republican because the party is no longer conservative, it’s not even a party - it’s a cult focused around the persona of Trump. The party bosses are not ours, any more than they are yours.

I am not posting as a Republican. I am posting as a conservative who is anti-Trump/anti-MAGA, both of which currently coincide with the GOP. I am trying to help defeat Trump. You’re preaching to the choir. I, too, am afraid that if we don’t stop Trump now, we probably will end up with the choice of surrendering America forever or being declared enemies of the state if we publicly oppose him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obama is the poison that brought us here.

But, according to Biden, he was the first clean and articulate black politician. Remember that?

Ouch. Kamala did call out Joe as a racist.

That's false. Kamala did not call Joe a "racist." https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-kamala-harris-call-joe-biden-racist-during-democratic-debate-1536791

All you MAGAs have is lie after lie after lie. That's because Trump falls shorts on "merits" - the only thing you like about him is that he hates immigrants and gays and liberals and and and and...

TROLL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lincoln Project and other anti-Trump Republicans seem to be in the extreme minority and are being completely ignored by your party bosses. They clearly don't care about your opinions and worse yet are outright demonizing you - they constantly trash and demonize and vilify the Lincoln Project and Liz Cheney and Kinzinger and anyone else who dares buck the almighty Trump. If you aren't the extreme minority then you need to start working even harder to rally more like-minded Republicans, because right now all we see is Trump completely steamrolling the GOP and anyone who's ever been a Republican - if you so much as sniffle at Trump they will brand you a traitor and suggest you be given a military tribunal like they did with Liz Cheney. That's what's at stake. You're either all-in with Trump or you might end up on some deranged list of "traitors" to be persecuted - sadly saying this stuff out loud isn't even hyperbolic or a parody anymore. I myself was a Republican for almost 30 years. I don't even recognize the deranged entity that the GOP has become now.

Again, there seems to be a misunderstanding. Not all conservatives are Republicans. In fact, I would say many conservatives no longer consider themselves Republican because the party is no longer conservative, it’s not even a party - it’s a cult focused around the persona of Trump. The party bosses are not ours, any more than they are yours.

I am not posting as a Republican. I am posting as a conservative who is anti-Trump/anti-MAGA, both of which currently coincide with the GOP. I am trying to help defeat Trump. You’re preaching to the choir. I, too, am afraid that if we don’t stop Trump now, we probably will end up with the choice of surrendering America forever or being declared enemies of the state if we publicly oppose him.

Too late now. Your statement is online. Forever.. Yeah, kinda dumb isn't it? its ok,

[Anonymous]

Democrats here apparently still aren’t aware that China is now expanding its military bases in Cuba. Right this minute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lincoln Project and other anti-Trump Republicans seem to be in the extreme minority and are being completely ignored by your party bosses. They clearly don't care about your opinions and worse yet are outright demonizing you - they constantly trash and demonize and vilify the Lincoln Project and Liz Cheney and Kinzinger and anyone else who dares buck the almighty Trump. If you aren't the extreme minority then you need to start working even harder to rally more like-minded Republicans, because right now all we see is Trump completely steamrolling the GOP and anyone who's ever been a Republican - if you so much as sniffle at Trump they will brand you a traitor and suggest you be given a military tribunal like they did with Liz Cheney. That's what's at stake. You're either all-in with Trump or you might end up on some deranged list of "traitors" to be persecuted - sadly saying this stuff out loud isn't even hyperbolic or a parody anymore. I myself was a Republican for almost 30 years. I don't even recognize the deranged entity that the GOP has become now.

Again, there seems to be a misunderstanding. Not all conservatives are Republicans. In fact, I would say many conservatives no longer consider themselves Republican because the party is no longer conservative, it’s not even a party - it’s a cult focused around the persona of Trump. The party bosses are not ours, any more than they are yours.

I am not posting as a Republican. I am posting as a conservative who is anti-Trump/anti-MAGA, both of which currently coincide with the GOP. I am trying to help defeat Trump. You’re preaching to the choir. I, too, am afraid that if we don’t stop Trump now, we probably will end up with the choice of surrendering America forever or being declared enemies of the state if we publicly oppose him.

Too late now. Your statement is online. Forever.. Yeah, kinda dumb isn't it? its ok,

You couldn’t repel people from the Dems more if you were trying! Are you trying?

[Anonymous]

vote blue blue blue, people. It’s only July. The people decide who is President, not the pundits on TV.

[Anonymous]

Why should we vote for more fentanyl, 20:31?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obama is the poison that brought us here.

But, according to Biden, he was the first clean and articulate black politician. Remember that?

Ouch. Kamala did call out Joe as a racist.

That's false. Kamala did not call Joe a "racist." https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-kamala-harris-call-joe-biden-racist-during-democratic-debate-1536791

All you MAGAs have is lie after lie after lie. That's because Trump falls shorts on "merits" - the only thing you like about him is that he hates immigrants and gays and liberals and and and and...

TROLL

Truth hurts, eh?