AAP drama

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our AAP center experience has been amazing and absolutely life changing for our DC. My other DC isn’t in AAP and doesn’t need it. They are happy and there isn’t some kind of smart / dumb type of animosity in our house.

Inevitably, my guess is the SB will probably move to dismantle the center system as LLIV is finally up and running everywhere. And even more, my guess is that LLIV will probably be moved to the cluster model in most places due to the segregation like optics of separate classes which really aren’t any better than separate schools if we look at it through an equity lens.

Given all the issues present in many low SES/ middle SES elementary schools, the cluster model will likely result in poorer outcomes for those kids.

I’m just happy my DC will have received a top notch elementary/MS education before the AAP system is changed. Sorry some kids said some mean things though.

Could you explain how your center experience has been life changing? My kid attended an AAP center and was still underwhelmed by everything. He felt like he learned more in 3 hours of AoPS math and language arts classes than he did in an entire week of school. My kid's center was at best mildly accelerated and largely still filled with the station model for math, reading groups that never saw the teacher, lots of busywork, and lots of powerpoint presentations. I know that not all centers are the same, and I'm curious about what your center did differently to make the experience life changing for your kid.

NP. My first DC's center school experience was also life changing, a bit less dramatic for my second DC. The academics are a part of it, more the ELA and S/SS than Advanced Math since the teachers have generally only been so-so math teachers. The focus on critical thinking in the AAP curriculum has been targeted towards DC's weaknesses and has helped him learn and think. More importantly, the cohort and the teachers' comfort, familiarity with GT students who will question and correct errors and think out of the box.

My older DC found a group of kids who accepted and did not belittle his intelligence and quirks, unlike his GE classes. My younger DC found a group of kids who are very similar to him, playing pretend, writing fan fic, terrified of fire alarms, etc.

The center school model is unusual and a relic from a time when GT was considered important. It isn't anymore and FCPS is trying to dismantle it. There are a lot of people in the administration who are hostile to it and they are doing their best to get rid of it. OP's opinion is the majority opinion.

For the bolded, really?! At which school are kids belittling another kid's intelligence and quirks in the 2nd grade? Statistically, there were even another 4 or 5 AAP kids within your kid's 2nd grade classroom, and there should have been several kids above grade level. In FCPS, if anything kids are belittled for being "dumb" - not for being "too smart."

Also, you don't think gen ed kids play pretend or write fan fic? WTH?

DS has a friend that is smart and could careless about school. He is in Advanced Math and LIII but is not curious and has no external motivation to learn about a subject outside of what he has to at school. There are plenty of smart kids just like him. He was in-pool for LIV and had poor GBRS and HOPE scores (his parents applied this year.) There is no doubt that he is smart he is not motivated. His parents know this and applied for LIV again because they know he will do fine in it but he does the bare minimum at school and at home. Statistically, he is that kid you are talking about but he doesn't show it no matter who goads or prods him.

Kids are picked on for being smart and quirky. It happens all the time. The book worm, the kid always raising their hand, the kid who wants more math. Most of the kids could care less but there are kids who will use another kids intelligence and curiosity to target them.

I know kids from our neighborhood who moved to the Center due to bullying in the classroom, mainly because they stood out for their intelligence and other kids were ostracizing them for that reason. I can think of 3 off the top of my head who moved for that reason. The three kids, none were in my kids class but I spoke to their parents as we were deciding on moving to the Center or staying, all said that the kids just fit in better at the Center. They loved it there and have friends from the program still.

I know of one in my sons class who was loudly announcing he was going to the Center in 4th grade because he was smart and heard plenty of kids commenting that they were glad he was leaving. DS told me that he had issues in the classroom because of how he acted towards the other kids and his interests. I am not sure if his issues were that he was quirky or if he thought he was smarter then the others well before leaving for the Center and the other kids ignored him. No one seemed to be sad when he left. I saw him at a party the next year and his Mom said that he was struggling socially at the Center so I suspect it was personality more then anything else.

Again, I'm really curious about where this is happening. My kids attended a Title I ES. There were still quite a lot of bookworms, kids always raising their hands, and kids who loved math in every classroom. It wasn't some sort of weird thing that would cause a kid to be ostracized. The nerdy, AAP bound kids + the bright, nerdy kids who didn't get in were like 30% of the grade. Maybe boy vs. girl dynamics are different. Maybe things are different in an even lower SES school that places very few kids in AAP. Otherwise, at any school placing 15% or more of the grade into AAP, the whole idea of kids being picked on for nerdiness seems weird to me.

Just because you don't see it in your current class doesn't mean 1) It isn't happening. It could be happening but your kid is not reporting it because does not impact your kid. 2) It isn't happening in different classrooms.

DS reports nothing about what is happening at school, I hear a lot when he is car pooling with kids and there are kids who are struggling. My DS doesn't discuss it but other kids do. I have had to tell other kids that their words were not kind during that ride. Lack of hearing about it doesn't mean it is not happening.

The kid I know who left in 4th grade was someone I had never heard about before. I heard DS's friends discussing him bragging about leaving for the Center when they were hanging out. They were not kind in what they had to say about the kid.

There is more happening then you hear. And there is more happening then your kid might hear.

I don't disagree with you, but I am confused. Are you saying that you heard kids making fun of other kids for being too smart or for being bookworms? Or are the kids making fun of those who they think aren't as smart? Your second anecdote suggests that the 4th grade kid was being a jerk about other kids not being smart enough, and your DS's friends were mocking the kid for being an arrogant jerk.

PP's post suggested that kids were being like, "OMG. Look at Larla reading books over there. What a huge nerd. I don't hang out with weird nerds who raise their hands in class and read books." I'm having a hard time imagining anything like this, since even my kids' Title I school had plenty of kids who read voraciously, participated in class, and were above grade level.

I'm not trying to be aggressive about this. It seems implausible to me that a kid would be so alienated in the regular classroom, but when they move to the center alongside 5 other kids who were in that same classroom with them and 25 other kids from their school that they saw in specials and recess, they suddenly fit in perfectly.

When you draw a line to create two groups of people for different treatment, both groups are pressured to hate the other group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our AAP center experience has been amazing and absolutely life changing for our DC. My other DC isn’t in AAP and doesn’t need it. They are happy and there isn’t some kind of smart / dumb type of animosity in our house.

Inevitably, my guess is the SB will probably move to dismantle the center system as LLIV is finally up and running everywhere. And even more, my guess is that LLIV will probably be moved to the cluster model in most places due to the segregation like optics of separate classes which really aren’t any better than separate schools if we look at it through an equity lens.

Given all the issues present in many low SES/ middle SES elementary schools, the cluster model will likely result in poorer outcomes for those kids.

I’m just happy my DC will have received a top notch elementary/MS education before the AAP system is changed. Sorry some kids said some mean things though.

Could you explain how your center experience has been life changing? My kid attended an AAP center and was still underwhelmed by everything. He felt like he learned more in 3 hours of AoPS math and language arts classes than he did in an entire week of school. My kid's center was at best mildly accelerated and largely still filled with the station model for math, reading groups that never saw the teacher, lots of busywork, and lots of powerpoint presentations. I know that not all centers are the same, and I'm curious about what your center did differently to make the experience life changing for your kid.

Likely, they either have a truly gifted child which isn't representative of most kids in AAP, or they were at a lower SES school and used it as a get away ticket

I'm the quoted PP, and I have a truly gifted child. He was bored out of his mind at the center and still didn't feel like he fit in with the other kids. At best, it was life changing in a negative way.

Depends so much on the center. I have a truly gifted kid and our center had quite a few truly gifted kids so it was a great cohort. In fact, my son really did not have good friends until 3rd grade. Personally, I think reverting back to the old GT system would be the best thing to do. Give these truly gifted kids an appropriate cohort, but make it small enough that it is not upsetting (less upsetting?) to the kids and parents who are not in it.

lol what is a truly gifted kid

Not sure, but no one is throwing chairs in DCs center school classroom. And most kids pay attention and do the work.

Call it gifted. Call it above average. Call it watered down. I don’t care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This sounds very unreal.

NP. I assure you, this is absolutely real. The same scenario happened with my child back in 2nd grade too. What made it even worse was that he attended a center school already and so had to see these mean kids for the rest of his elementary years ... Being told as a SEVEN year old that you're either "smarter" than other kids, or "not as smart" is incredibly damaging. The truth is, the vast majority of these kids are identical in ability. Only a very few at either end of the spectrum are so different that they need a specialized curriculum. ... He says to this day that nothing ever made him feel as bad as those kids who were chosen for AAP...

Completely real. OP, My heart is broken for your son! NP, It sounds like he had the resilience to get through this, so congrats on parenting well done. We moved here when my son was in 5th grade and he didn't get in that year. It was a HUGE hit to his confidence and really impacted his entire view of himself. We learned that what AAP vs. NonAAP would truly mean, wasn't extra enrichment, but that some kids walk into school every day being told they are smart and capable, the others are labeled as "not as smart and not as capable." The lunch soccer games are AAP vs. Non-AAP. Every. Single. Day. And if you follow the threads here, you'll know that it's largely based on a subjective eval of cover letters and work samples. The kids are 7! FCPS, How is this any way to raise a next generation of leaders?? FCPS and particularly center schools do nothing to counter the message all the kids receive every single day.

OP, Hang in there. You didn't fail your son, FCPS did. If anything, talk to your principal. They should get out in front of this w/ second graders every spring (but they don't!) and they should be reinforcing positive messages through elementary. On the upside... it is fortunate that it sounds like your son is not at a center school. Fall will be much easier without that constant reminder.

The majority get in through test scores and are smarter but the parent referrals and principal picks invites helicopter parents and teacher's pets into the program and these are the elements of the program most likely to have kids that feel like they are better than others. It's ironic that the kids who act like they are better are the ones that didn't get in because they were better. The really smart kids either have an attitude well before AAP or don't. They didn't need AAP to tell them they were smart.

The problem is that this is no longer necessarily true. The AAP equity report showed that GBRS was 4 times more important than test scores for AAP selection. This also meshes with my experience, where quite a lot of kids with CogAT scores in the 120s but high GBRS got in. Several of these kids were not even in the LII math pullout or highest reading group with my DD, who got rejected with much higher scores.

I agree on the second point. The most obnoxious child and parent were from a girl who prepped like crazy for CogAT, still got only a 120, but was a massive teacher's pet. The mom was a frequent classroom volunteer, and the girl was one of those who had the super expensive, cute matchy clothes. The child bullied mine for "not being smart," and the mom went on at great length about how her child wasn't a good test taker, but the AAP committee really saw through that and realized that her daughter was gifted and special.

Wait. WHAT!?!?! GBRS is 4 times more important than tests?!?!? Since when? This is basically teacher recommendation isn't it? Doesn't this just encourage the worst kind of parental behavior and helicopter parenting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This sounds very unreal.

NP. I assure you, this is absolutely real. The same scenario happened with my child back in 2nd grade too. What made it even worse was that he attended a center school already and so had to see these mean kids for the rest of his elementary years ... Being told as a SEVEN year old that you're either "smarter" than other kids, or "not as smart" is incredibly damaging. The truth is, the vast majority of these kids are identical in ability. Only a very few at either end of the spectrum are so different that they need a specialized curriculum. ... He says to this day that nothing ever made him feel as bad as those kids who were chosen for AAP...

Completely real. OP, My heart is broken for your son! NP, It sounds like he had the resilience to get through this, so congrats on parenting well done. We moved here when my son was in 5th grade and he didn't get in that year. It was a HUGE hit to his confidence and really impacted his entire view of himself. We learned that what AAP vs. NonAAP would truly mean, wasn't extra enrichment, but that some kids walk into school every day being told they are smart and capable, the others are labeled as "not as smart and not as capable." The lunch soccer games are AAP vs. Non-AAP. Every. Single. Day. And if you follow the threads here, you'll know that it's largely based on a subjective eval of cover letters and work samples. The kids are 7! FCPS, How is this any way to raise a next generation of leaders?? FCPS and particularly center schools do nothing to counter the message all the kids receive every single day.

OP, Hang in there. You didn't fail your son, FCPS did. If anything, talk to your principal. They should get out in front of this w/ second graders every spring (but they don't!) and they should be reinforcing positive messages through elementary. On the upside... it is fortunate that it sounds like your son is not at a center school. Fall will be much easier without that constant reminder.

The majority get in through test scores and are smarter but the parent referrals and principal picks invites helicopter parents and teacher's pets into the program and these are the elements of the program most likely to have kids that feel like they are better than others. It's ironic that the kids who act like they are better are the ones that didn't get in because they were better. The really smart kids either have an attitude well before AAP or don't. They didn't need AAP to tell them they were smart.

The problem is that this is no longer necessarily true. The AAP equity report showed that GBRS was 4 times more important than test scores for AAP selection. This also meshes with my experience, where quite a lot of kids with CogAT scores in the 120s but high GBRS got in. Several of these kids were not even in the LII math pullout or highest reading group with my DD, who got rejected with much higher scores.

I agree on the second point. The most obnoxious child and parent were from a girl who prepped like crazy for CogAT, still got only a 120, but was a massive teacher's pet. The mom was a frequent classroom volunteer, and the girl was one of those who had the super expensive, cute matchy clothes. The child bullied mine for "not being smart," and the mom went on at great length about how her child wasn't a good test taker, but the AAP committee really saw through that and realized that her daughter was gifted and special.

Wait. WHAT!?!?! GBRS is 4 times more important than tests?!?!? Since when? This is basically teacher recommendation isn't it? Doesn't this just encourage the worst kind of parental behavior and helicopter parenting?

There was a report that was released in 2020 that showed that for the same CoGAT score, a kid with a higher GBRS was 50% more likely to get in. Not sure about 4x more important than tests, but that GBRS is the biggest factor has been known for 4 years and repeated widely on this board. Whether it encourages bad parent behavior is probably largely teacher dependent. Pretty sure my rising 3rd grader's teacher would have given a worse GBRS if I bugged her more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This sounds very unreal.

NP. I assure you, this is absolutely real. The same scenario happened with my child back in 2nd grade too. What made it even worse was that he attended a center school already and so had to see these mean kids for the rest of his elementary years ... Being told as a SEVEN year old that you're either "smarter" than other kids, or "not as smart" is incredibly damaging. The truth is, the vast majority of these kids are identical in ability. Only a very few at either end of the spectrum are so different that they need a specialized curriculum. ... He says to this day that nothing ever made him feel as bad as those kids who were chosen for AAP...

Completely real. OP, My heart is broken for your son! NP, It sounds like he had the resilience to get through this, so congrats on parenting well done. We moved here when my son was in 5th grade and he didn't get in that year. It was a HUGE hit to his confidence and really impacted his entire view of himself. We learned that what AAP vs. NonAAP would truly mean, wasn't extra enrichment, but that some kids walk into school every day being told they are smart and capable, the others are labeled as "not as smart and not as capable." The lunch soccer games are AAP vs. Non-AAP. Every. Single. Day. And if you follow the threads here, you'll know that it's largely based on a subjective eval of cover letters and work samples. The kids are 7! FCPS, How is this any way to raise a next generation of leaders?? FCPS and particularly center schools do nothing to counter the message all the kids receive every single day.

OP, Hang in there. You didn't fail your son, FCPS did. If anything, talk to your principal. They should get out in front of this w/ second graders every spring (but they don't!) and they should be reinforcing positive messages through elementary. On the upside... it is fortunate that it sounds like your son is not at a center school. Fall will be much easier without that constant reminder.

The majority get in through test scores and are smarter but the parent referrals and principal picks invites helicopter parents and teacher's pets into the program and these are the elements of the program most likely to have kids that feel like they are better than others. It's ironic that the kids who act like they are better are the ones that didn't get in because they were better. The really smart kids either have an attitude well before AAP or don't. They didn't need AAP to tell them they were smart.

The problem is that this is no longer necessarily true. The AAP equity report showed that GBRS was 4 times more important than test scores for AAP selection. This also meshes with my experience, where quite a lot of kids with CogAT scores in the 120s but high GBRS got in. Several of these kids were not even in the LII math pullout or highest reading group with my DD, who got rejected with much higher scores.

I agree on the second point. The most obnoxious child and parent were from a girl who prepped like crazy for CogAT, still got only a 120, but was a massive teacher's pet. The mom was a frequent classroom volunteer, and the girl was one of those who had the super expensive, cute matchy clothes. The child bullied mine for "not being smart," and the mom went on at great length about how her child wasn't a good test taker, but the AAP committee really saw through that and realized that her daughter was gifted and special.

Wait. WHAT!?!?! GBRS is 4 times more important than tests?!?!? Since when? This is basically teacher recommendation isn't it? Doesn't this just encourage the worst kind of parental behavior and helicopter parenting?

The problem with the Cogat is twofold: parents prepping have really skewed the norms and the wrong students are scoring highly on it and the right students aren't. So the solution is to discount it.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

This sounds very unreal.[/quote]

NP. I assure you, this is absolutely real. The same scenario happened with my child back in 2nd grade too. What made it even worse was that he attended a center school already and so had to see these mean kids for the rest of his elementary years ... Being told as a SEVEN year old that you're either "smarter" than other kids, or "not as smart" is incredibly damaging. The truth is, the vast majority of these kids are identical in ability. Only a very few at either end of the spectrum are so different that they need a specialized curriculum. ... He says to this day that nothing ever made him feel as bad as those kids who were chosen for AAP...[/quote]

Completely real. OP, My heart is broken for your son! NP, It sounds like he had the resilience to get through this, so congrats on parenting well done. We moved here when my son was in 5th grade and he didn't get in that year. It was a HUGE hit to his confidence and really impacted his entire view of himself. We learned that what AAP vs. NonAAP would truly mean, wasn't extra enrichment, but that some kids walk into school every day being told they are smart and capable, the others are labeled as "not as smart and not as capable." The lunch soccer games are AAP vs. Non-AAP. Every. Single. Day. And if you follow the threads here, you'll know that it's largely based on a subjective eval of cover letters and work samples. The kids are 7! FCPS, How is this any way to raise a next generation of leaders?? FCPS and particularly center schools do nothing to counter the message all the kids receive every single day.

OP, Hang in there. You didn't fail your son, FCPS did. If anything, talk to your principal. They should get out in front of this w/ second graders every spring (but they don't!) and they should be reinforcing positive messages through elementary. On the upside... it is fortunate that it sounds like your son is not at a center school. Fall will be much easier without that constant reminder. [/quote]

[b]The majority get in through test scores and are smarter[/b] but the parent referrals and principal picks invites helicopter parents and teacher's pets into the program and these are the elements of the program most likely to have kids that feel like they are better than others. It's ironic that the kids who act like they are better are the ones that didn't get in because they were better. The really smart kids either have an attitude well before AAP or don't. They didn't need AAP to tell them they were smart.[/quote]

The problem is that this is no longer necessarily true. The AAP equity report showed that GBRS was 4 times more important than test scores for AAP selection. This also meshes with my experience, where quite a lot of kids with CogAT scores in the 120s but high GBRS got in. Several of these kids were not even in the LII math pullout or highest reading group with my DD, who got rejected with much higher scores.

I agree on the second point. The most obnoxious child and parent were from a girl who prepped like crazy for CogAT, still got only a 120, but was a massive teacher's pet. The mom was a frequent classroom volunteer, and the girl was one of those who had the super expensive, cute matchy clothes. The child bullied mine for "not being smart," and the mom went on at great length about how her child wasn't a good test taker, but the AAP committee really saw through that and realized that her daughter was gifted and special. [/quote]

Wait. WHAT!?!?! GBRS is 4 times more important than tests?!?!? Since when? This is basically teacher recommendation isn't it? Doesn't this just encourage the worst kind of parental behavior and helicopter parenting?[/quote]

There was a report that was released in 2020 that showed that for the same CoGAT score, a kid with a higher GBRS was 50% more likely to get in. Not sure about 4x more important than tests, but that GBRS is the biggest factor has been known for 4 years and repeated widely on this board. Whether it encourages bad parent behavior is probably largely teacher dependent. Pretty sure my rising 3rd grader's teacher would have given a worse GBRS if I bugged her more.[/quote]

Oops. The report does show that race is the strongest factor, followed by GBRS. It shows that if all other things are equal, CogAT Q and NNAT don't move the needle at all toward acceptance or rejection. I recommend reading the full report. https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BPLQKV69B096/$file/FCPS%20final%20report%2005.05.20.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This sounds very unreal.

NP. I assure you, this is absolutely real. The same scenario happened with my child back in 2nd grade too. What made it even worse was that he attended a center school already and so had to see these mean kids for the rest of his elementary years ... Being told as a SEVEN year old that you're either "smarter" than other kids, or "not as smart" is incredibly damaging. The truth is, the vast majority of these kids are identical in ability. Only a very few at either end of the spectrum are so different that they need a specialized curriculum. ... He says to this day that nothing ever made him feel as bad as those kids who were chosen for AAP...

Completely real. OP, My heart is broken for your son! NP, It sounds like he had the resilience to get through this, so congrats on parenting well done. We moved here when my son was in 5th grade and he didn't get in that year. It was a HUGE hit to his confidence and really impacted his entire view of himself. We learned that what AAP vs. NonAAP would truly mean, wasn't extra enrichment, but that some kids walk into school every day being told they are smart and capable, the others are labeled as "not as smart and not as capable." The lunch soccer games are AAP vs. Non-AAP. Every. Single. Day. And if you follow the threads here, you'll know that it's largely based on a subjective eval of cover letters and work samples. The kids are 7! FCPS, How is this any way to raise a next generation of leaders?? FCPS and particularly center schools do nothing to counter the message all the kids receive every single day.

OP, Hang in there. You didn't fail your son, FCPS did. If anything, talk to your principal. They should get out in front of this w/ second graders every spring (but they don't!) and they should be reinforcing positive messages through elementary. On the upside... it is fortunate that it sounds like your son is not at a center school. Fall will be much easier without that constant reminder.

The majority get in through test scores and are smarter but the parent referrals and principal picks invites helicopter parents and teacher's pets into the program and these are the elements of the program most likely to have kids that feel like they are better than others. It's ironic that the kids who act like they are better are the ones that didn't get in because they were better. The really smart kids either have an attitude well before AAP or don't. They didn't need AAP to tell them they were smart.

The problem is that this is no longer necessarily true. The AAP equity report showed that GBRS was 4 times more important than test scores for AAP selection. This also meshes with my experience, where quite a lot of kids with CogAT scores in the 120s but high GBRS got in. Several of these kids were not even in the LII math pullout or highest reading group with my DD, who got rejected with much higher scores.

I agree on the second point. The most obnoxious child and parent were from a girl who prepped like crazy for CogAT, still got only a 120, but was a massive teacher's pet. The mom was a frequent classroom volunteer, and the girl was one of those who had the super expensive, cute matchy clothes. The child bullied mine for "not being smart," and the mom went on at great length about how her child wasn't a good test taker, but the AAP committee really saw through that and realized that her daughter was gifted and special.

Wait. WHAT!?!?! GBRS is 4 times more important than tests?!?!? Since when? This is basically teacher recommendation isn't it? Doesn't this just encourage the worst kind of parental behavior and helicopter parenting?

There was a report that was released in 2020 that showed that for the same CoGAT score, a kid with a higher GBRS was 50% more likely to get in. Not sure about 4x more important than tests, but that GBRS is the biggest factor has been known for 4 years and repeated widely on this board. Whether it encourages bad parent behavior is probably largely teacher dependent. Pretty sure my rising 3rd grader's teacher would have given a worse GBRS if I bugged her more.

Oops. The report does show that race is the strongest factor, followed by GBRS. It shows that if all other things are equal, CogAT Q and NNAT don't move the needle at all toward acceptance or rejection. I recommend reading the full report. https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.n...eport%2005.05.20.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This sounds very unreal.

NP. I assure you, this is absolutely real. The same scenario happened with my child back in 2nd grade too. What made it even worse was that he attended a center school already and so had to see these mean kids for the rest of his elementary years ... Being told as a SEVEN year old that you're either "smarter" than other kids, or "not as smart" is incredibly damaging. The truth is, the vast majority of these kids are identical in ability. Only a very few at either end of the spectrum are so different that they need a specialized curriculum. ... He says to this day that nothing ever made him feel as bad as those kids who were chosen for AAP...

Completely real. OP, My heart is broken for your son! NP, It sounds like he had the resilience to get through this, so congrats on parenting well done. We moved here when my son was in 5th grade and he didn't get in that year. It was a HUGE hit to his confidence and really impacted his entire view of himself. We learned that what AAP vs. NonAAP would truly mean, wasn't extra enrichment, but that some kids walk into school every day being told they are smart and capable, the others are labeled as "not as smart and not as capable." The lunch soccer games are AAP vs. Non-AAP. Every. Single. Day. And if you follow the threads here, you'll know that it's largely based on a subjective eval of cover letters and work samples. The kids are 7! FCPS, How is this any way to raise a next generation of leaders?? FCPS and particularly center schools do nothing to counter the message all the kids receive every single day.

OP, Hang in there. You didn't fail your son, FCPS did. If anything, talk to your principal. They should get out in front of this w/ second graders every spring (but they don't!) and they should be reinforcing positive messages through elementary. On the upside... it is fortunate that it sounds like your son is not at a center school. Fall will be much easier without that constant reminder.

The majority get in through test scores and are smarter but the parent referrals and principal picks invites helicopter parents and teacher's pets into the program and these are the elements of the program most likely to have kids that feel like they are better than others. It's ironic that the kids who act like they are better are the ones that didn't get in because they were better. The really smart kids either have an attitude well before AAP or don't. They didn't need AAP to tell them they were smart.

The problem is that this is no longer necessarily true. The AAP equity report showed that GBRS was 4 times more important than test scores for AAP selection. This also meshes with my experience, where quite a lot of kids with CogAT scores in the 120s but high GBRS got in. Several of these kids were not even in the LII math pullout or highest reading group with my DD, who got rejected with much higher scores.

I agree on the second point. The most obnoxious child and parent were from a girl who prepped like crazy for CogAT, still got only a 120, but was a massive teacher's pet. The mom was a frequent classroom volunteer, and the girl was one of those who had the super expensive, cute matchy clothes. The child bullied mine for "not being smart," and the mom went on at great length about how her child wasn't a good test taker, but the AAP committee really saw through that and realized that her daughter was gifted and special.

Wait. WHAT!?!?! GBRS is 4 times more important than tests?!?!? Since when? This is basically teacher recommendation isn't it? Doesn't this just encourage the worst kind of parental behavior and helicopter parenting?

There was a report that was released in 2020 that showed that for the same CoGAT score, a kid with a higher GBRS was 50% more likely to get in. Not sure about 4x more important than tests, but that GBRS is the biggest factor has been known for 4 years and repeated widely on this board. Whether it encourages bad parent behavior is probably largely teacher dependent. Pretty sure my rising 3rd grader's teacher would have given a worse GBRS if I bugged her more.

Oops. The report does show that race is the strongest factor, followed by GBRS. It shows that if all other things are equal, CogAT Q and NNAT don't move the needle at all toward acceptance or rejection. I recommend reading the full report. https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.n...eport%2005.05.20.pdf

Sorry. I'll get the link to work one of these days. https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BPLQKV69B096/$file/FCPS%20final%20report%2005.05.20.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This sounds very unreal.

NP. I assure you, this is absolutely real. The same scenario happened with my child back in 2nd grade too. What made it even worse was that he attended a center school already and so had to see these mean kids for the rest of his elementary years ... Being told as a SEVEN year old that you're either "smarter" than other kids, or "not as smart" is incredibly damaging. The truth is, the vast majority of these kids are identical in ability. Only a very few at either end of the spectrum are so different that they need a specialized curriculum. ... He says to this day that nothing ever made him feel as bad as those kids who were chosen for AAP...

Completely real. OP, My heart is broken for your son! NP, It sounds like he had the resilience to get through this, so congrats on parenting well done. We moved here when my son was in 5th grade and he didn't get in that year. It was a HUGE hit to his confidence and really impacted his entire view of himself. We learned that what AAP vs. NonAAP would truly mean, wasn't extra enrichment, but that some kids walk into school every day being told they are smart and capable, the others are labeled as "not as smart and not as capable." The lunch soccer games are AAP vs. Non-AAP. Every. Single. Day. And if you follow the threads here, you'll know that it's largely based on a subjective eval of cover letters and work samples. The kids are 7! FCPS, How is this any way to raise a next generation of leaders?? FCPS and particularly center schools do nothing to counter the message all the kids receive every single day.

OP, Hang in there. You didn't fail your son, FCPS did. If anything, talk to your principal. They should get out in front of this w/ second graders every spring (but they don't!) and they should be reinforcing positive messages through elementary. On the upside... it is fortunate that it sounds like your son is not at a center school. Fall will be much easier without that constant reminder.

The majority get in through test scores and are smarter but the parent referrals and principal picks invites helicopter parents and teacher's pets into the program and these are the elements of the program most likely to have kids that feel like they are better than others. It's ironic that the kids who act like they are better are the ones that didn't get in because they were better. The really smart kids either have an attitude well before AAP or don't. They didn't need AAP to tell them they were smart.

The problem is that this is no longer necessarily true. The AAP equity report showed that GBRS was 4 times more important than test scores for AAP selection. This also meshes with my experience, where quite a lot of kids with CogAT scores in the 120s but high GBRS got in. Several of these kids were not even in the LII math pullout or highest reading group with my DD, who got rejected with much higher scores.

I agree on the second point. The most obnoxious child and parent were from a girl who prepped like crazy for CogAT, still got only a 120, but was a massive teacher's pet. The mom was a frequent classroom volunteer, and the girl was one of those who had the super expensive, cute matchy clothes. The child bullied mine for "not being smart," and the mom went on at great length about how her child wasn't a good test taker, but the AAP committee really saw through that and realized that her daughter was gifted and special.

Wait. WHAT!?!?! GBRS is 4 times more important than tests?!?!? Since when? This is basically teacher recommendation isn't it? Doesn't this just encourage the worst kind of parental behavior and helicopter parenting?

The problem with the Cogat is twofold: parents prepping have really skewed the norms and the wrong students are scoring highly on it and the right students aren't. So the solution is to discount it.

Who are the right students and who are the right students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This sounds very unreal.

NP. I assure you, this is absolutely real. The same scenario happened with my child back in 2nd grade too. What made it even worse was that he attended a center school already and so had to see these mean kids for the rest of his elementary years ... Being told as a SEVEN year old that you're either "smarter" than other kids, or "not as smart" is incredibly damaging. The truth is, the vast majority of these kids are identical in ability. Only a very few at either end of the spectrum are so different that they need a specialized curriculum. ... He says to this day that nothing ever made him feel as bad as those kids who were chosen for AAP...

Completely real. OP, My heart is broken for your son! NP, It sounds like he had the resilience to get through this, so congrats on parenting well done. We moved here when my son was in 5th grade and he didn't get in that year. It was a HUGE hit to his confidence and really impacted his entire view of himself. We learned that what AAP vs. NonAAP would truly mean, wasn't extra enrichment, but that some kids walk into school every day being told they are smart and capable, the others are labeled as "not as smart and not as capable." The lunch soccer games are AAP vs. Non-AAP. Every. Single. Day. And if you follow the threads here, you'll know that it's largely based on a subjective eval of cover letters and work samples. The kids are 7! FCPS, How is this any way to raise a next generation of leaders?? FCPS and particularly center schools do nothing to counter the message all the kids receive every single day.

OP, Hang in there. You didn't fail your son, FCPS did. If anything, talk to your principal. They should get out in front of this w/ second graders every spring (but they don't!) and they should be reinforcing positive messages through elementary. On the upside... it is fortunate that it sounds like your son is not at a center school. Fall will be much easier without that constant reminder.

The majority get in through test scores and are smarter but the parent referrals and principal picks invites helicopter parents and teacher's pets into the program and these are the elements of the program most likely to have kids that feel like they are better than others. It's ironic that the kids who act like they are better are the ones that didn't get in because they were better. The really smart kids either have an attitude well before AAP or don't. They didn't need AAP to tell them they were smart.

The problem is that this is no longer necessarily true. The AAP equity report showed that GBRS was 4 times more important than test scores for AAP selection. This also meshes with my experience, where quite a lot of kids with CogAT scores in the 120s but high GBRS got in. Several of these kids were not even in the LII math pullout or highest reading group with my DD, who got rejected with much higher scores.

I agree on the second point. The most obnoxious child and parent were from a girl who prepped like crazy for CogAT, still got only a 120, but was a massive teacher's pet. The mom was a frequent classroom volunteer, and the girl was one of those who had the super expensive, cute matchy clothes. The child bullied mine for "not being smart," and the mom went on at great length about how her child wasn't a good test taker, but the AAP committee really saw through that and realized that her daughter was gifted and special.

Wait. WHAT!?!?! GBRS is 4 times more important than tests?!?!? Since when? This is basically teacher recommendation isn't it? Doesn't this just encourage the worst kind of parental behavior and helicopter parenting?

The problem with the Cogat is twofold: parents prepping have really skewed the norms and the wrong students are scoring highly on it and the right students aren't. So the solution is to discount it.

Who are the right students and who are the right students?

Wrong students = Asian and white students

Right students = URMs (under represented minorities aka minorities excluding Asians)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I failed as a parent today! My child (2nd grader) came home crying today because apparently three of her friends are switching schools to go to an AAP center next year. I’m happy with my child’ performance and school, and didn’t even consider pushing for this. But she’s been crying for over an hour about how she is “stupid” and will have no friends next year. She doesn’t even want to see these girls tomorrow because they told her they aren’t friends with her anymore. I had absolutely on idea this is something kids talk about- this is my first kid. Have other parents experienced this ?

This sounds very unreal.

+1. Op, are you sure this is for real? Unless your kids' friends are jerks (in which case why would you encourage these friendships) I would take this with a HUGE grain of salt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Local Level 4 Teacher here. My school has one AAP class per year and my team is strong with a ton of experience. It irritates me that kids can get a great education at their neighborhood school but can choose to go elsewhere cause of the label of going to the center. Going to a center does not mean your child is getting a more elite education. I looked into some VGA data and was surprised that many Local Level 4s outperformed in midwinter testing than the centers. Next year every child is getting the same basal instruction regardless of level. 5th grade AAP will be getting the 5th grade basal and 6th grade will be using 6th grade. I am all for AAP but the center program is a waste of resources.

I agree that centers are a waste of resources - as is the associated busing. FCPS talks a big game about "equity" but allowing certain kids (AAP) to choose between their base school or the center while GE kids have no such choice is the very definition of INequity. Boggles my mind that it's still going on.

AAP here and couldn't agree with these comments more. Please just end the busing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Aren't you all tired of beating this drum about getting rid of AAP/AAP centers? In every post possible these people run over to dump on the program. Well guess what, even if they scrapped AAP and did flexible groups based on ability instead, the kids would still be able to tell who is in the "smart" group and who isn't and comment on it.

I don't agree. Flexible groups could be moved in/out of over time and kids could be grouped differently for different subjects. Homerooms/ specials would be a complete mix. The fully segregated class system that FCPS has implemented, based on completely subjective measures of 7 year olds does more harm than good. The parents of the 50% of kids who get in don't complain and the other 50% of parents are completely dismissed as bitter. So it persists. But that doesn't make it a good way to educate, even if it helps a lot of kids/ parents feel superior.

[Anonymous]

We moved from a very diverse general ed program to a high SES general ed program and THAT has made a huge difference. It's really not about advanced/gifted vs. general ed, it's about the background of the children.

I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion around AAP mamas, but it's 100% true.

Mom of Gen Ed kid whose education/scores improved significantly just by this move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I failed as a parent today! My child (2nd grader) came home crying today because apparently three of her friends are switching schools to go to an AAP center next year. I’m happy with my child’ performance and school, and didn’t even consider pushing for this. But she’s been crying for over an hour about how she is “stupid” and will have no friends next year. She doesn’t even want to see these girls tomorrow because they told her they aren’t friends with her anymore. I had absolutely on idea this is something kids talk about- this is my first kid. Have other parents experienced this ?

Awww, I dislike this. As a parent of a little girl who got in (luckily for us) and we switched to a center school; we purposely did not inform her about the process and the plan to switch schools. Obviously 2nd graders do not have to social maturity to understand the consequences of informing classmates they are leaving and to possibly be seen as a braggart. Secondly, we did not inform her of the significant possibility she would not have been accepted, thereby avoiding unnecessary drama altogether.

As far as we were aware at the time, kids did not seem to discuss it at our school. Usually if kids are talking about it, they are just parroting what their parents have to say about it... so its best to not say much. Alas, that is not the reality we live in and being a parent does not automatically grant one the powers to utter wise words to their offspring all the time.

The good news is, is that kids are resilient and get over it fairly quickly and stuff like this is forgotten about, especially if the parents do not make a big deal out of it!

She'll be fine and this is just another opportunity to learn how life works. After all, the only thing that is constant is change.