Bethesda Row after the Purple Line Opens?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Purple Lime will be studied for decades as a case study for how not to do transit. It won’t even be faster than existing bus service between several stops.
https://twitter.com/sodiumPen/status/1773353262353146257#m

As a comment says just below that one, "A better comparison is SS library -> UMD campus will be 23.9 min on PL, and at this very moment is 41 min on Google Transit. Or Bethesda -> UMD campus will be 36.3 min, and is 82 min at this moment. The Purple Line will be very much worth it."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Flood the zone with police, patrol aggressively, and let the criminals know that they will not be welcome.

The police should be defunded.

They have been.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Purple Lime will be studied for decades as a case study for how not to do transit. It won’t even be faster than existing bus service between several stops.
https://twitter.com/sodiumPen/status/1773353262353146257#m

As a comment says just below that one, "A better comparison is SS library -> UMD campus will be 23.9 min on PL, and at this very moment is 41 min on Google Transit. Or Bethesda -> UMD campus will be 36.3 min, and is 82 min at this moment. The Purple Line will be very much worth it."

“Better comparisons” are apparently the comparisons that you prefer to imagine.

[Anonymous]

11 billion dollars for a train as slow as a bus!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:11 billion dollars for a train as slow as a bus!

I mean, it's not.

But yes, the Purple Line should have cost much, much, much less. And it would have cost much, much, much less, if not for

1. the ICC
2. Robert Ehrlich's delays
3. lobbying by the Columbia Country Club and the Town of Chevy Chase
4. frivolous lawsuits by Chevy Chase residents
5. an objectively terrible judge who sat on one of the frivolous lawsuits
6. Larry Hogan's gross mismanagement

Opponents of the Purple Line have only themselves to blame for the high cost of the Purple Line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Purple Line will be slower than existing rail service from Silver Spring to College Park. You think that because it’s not a bus that makes it okay and not a colossal waste of money?

For all of the most obvious use cases, it will either be the same or slower than existing transit. What’s the point of this thing?

The most obvious use case, in fact the original use case, is Bethesda-Silver Spring. 8.9 minutes on the Purple Line, 21 minutes (or more, depending on traffic) on the J2 bus.

11 Billion dollars to take a few thousand people per day 4 miles 12 minutes faster.

Just wait 'til you hear about highway projects!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Purple Line will be slower than existing rail service from Silver Spring to College Park. You think that because it’s not a bus that makes it okay and not a colossal waste of money?

For all of the most obvious use cases, it will either be the same or slower than existing transit. What’s the point of this thing?

The most obvious use case, in fact the original use case, is Bethesda-Silver Spring. 8.9 minutes on the Purple Line, 21 minutes (or more, depending on traffic) on the J2 bus.

11 Billion dollars to take a few thousand people per day 4 miles 12 minutes faster.

Just wait 'til you hear about highway projects!

Actually, there is a highway project nearby that provides a great competitor.

MD-200 aka the ICC is 29 miles, cost $2.4 billion to build, serves 35 million vehicles per year and generates over $60 million per year in revenue which means that the capital costs will be paid off in 20 years.

There will never be a transit project that is anywhere close to this successful.

So please tell me more about highway projects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Purple Line will be slower than existing rail service from Silver Spring to College Park. You think that because it’s not a bus that makes it okay and not a colossal waste of money?

For all of the most obvious use cases, it will either be the same or slower than existing transit. What’s the point of this thing?

The most obvious use case, in fact the original use case, is Bethesda-Silver Spring. 8.9 minutes on the Purple Line, 21 minutes (or more, depending on traffic) on the J2 bus.

11 Billion dollars to take a few thousand people per day 4 miles 12 minutes faster.

Just wait 'til you hear about highway projects!

Actually, there is a highway project nearby that provides a great competitor.

MD-200 aka the ICC is 29 miles, cost $2.4 billion to build, serves 35 million vehicles per year and generates over $60 million per year in revenue which means that the capital costs will be paid off in 20 years.

There will never be a transit project that is anywhere close to this successful.

So please tell me more about highway projects.

Well, yes, if "success" for you means more vehicle miles traveled, more crashes, more deaths, and more debt for the state of Maryland. That's not how I measure success, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Purple Line will be slower than existing rail service from Silver Spring to College Park. You think that because it’s not a bus that makes it okay and not a colossal waste of money?

For all of the most obvious use cases, it will either be the same or slower than existing transit. What’s the point of this thing?

The most obvious use case, in fact the original use case, is Bethesda-Silver Spring. 8.9 minutes on the Purple Line, 21 minutes (or more, depending on traffic) on the J2 bus.

11 Billion dollars to take a few thousand people per day 4 miles 12 minutes faster.

Just wait 'til you hear about highway projects!

Actually, there is a highway project nearby that provides a great competitor.

MD-200 aka the ICC is 29 miles, cost $2.4 billion to build, serves 35 million vehicles per year and generates over $60 million per year in revenue which means that the capital costs will be paid off in 20 years.

There will never be a transit project that is anywhere close to this successful.

So please tell me more about highway projects.

Well, yes, if "success" for you means more vehicle miles traveled, more crashes, more deaths, and more debt for the state of Maryland. That's not how I measure success, though.

Nice goalpost moving. However, since you made the claim, please provide data that the ICC is less safe than alternatives on a per trip or per mile travelled basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Purple Line will be slower than existing rail service from Silver Spring to College Park. You think that because it’s not a bus that makes it okay and not a colossal waste of money?

For all of the most obvious use cases, it will either be the same or slower than existing transit. What’s the point of this thing?

The most obvious use case, in fact the original use case, is Bethesda-Silver Spring. 8.9 minutes on the Purple Line, 21 minutes (or more, depending on traffic) on the J2 bus.

11 Billion dollars to take a few thousand people per day 4 miles 12 minutes faster.

Just wait 'til you hear about highway projects!

Actually, there is a highway project nearby that provides a great competitor.

MD-200 aka the ICC is 29 miles, cost $2.4 billion to build, serves 35 million vehicles per year and generates over $60 million per year in revenue which means that the capital costs will be paid off in 20 years.

There will never be a transit project that is anywhere close to this successful.

So please tell me more about highway projects.

There are people in my friend group that are anti rail transit and pro highway. But I always point out that DC would be a much less attractive and livable city if the spaghetti network of freeways was built over the city, demolishing the historic rowhouse neighborhoods and towns like Takoma Park that we all enjoy today. Instead we have Metro, while not perfect it has brought numerous economic benefits to the city, including the revitalization and beautification of commercial streets like 14th.

Over the long term perhaps the Purple Line will revitalize communities like Langley Park. Already the historic neon Flower Theater Marquee was restored in anticipation of the Purple Line. I don’t expect fast suburb to suburb RER type service (Paris), but it will still serve as a vital connection between neighborhoods along the route, spurring economic development.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Purple Line will be slower than existing rail service from Silver Spring to College Park. You think that because it’s not a bus that makes it okay and not a colossal waste of money?

For all of the most obvious use cases, it will either be the same or slower than existing transit. What’s the point of this thing?

The most obvious use case, in fact the original use case, is Bethesda-Silver Spring. 8.9 minutes on the Purple Line, 21 minutes (or more, depending on traffic) on the J2 bus.

11 Billion dollars to take a few thousand people per day 4 miles 12 minutes faster.

Just wait 'til you hear about highway projects!

Actually, there is a highway project nearby that provides a great competitor.

MD-200 aka the ICC is 29 miles, cost $2.4 billion to build, serves 35 million vehicles per year and generates over $60 million per year in revenue which means that the capital costs will be paid off in 20 years.

There will never be a transit project that is anywhere close to this successful.

So please tell me more about highway projects.

Well, yes, if "success" for you means more vehicle miles traveled, more crashes, more deaths, and more debt for the state of Maryland. That's not how I measure success, though.

Nice goalpost moving. However, since you made the claim, please provide data that the ICC is less safe than alternatives on a per trip or per mile travelled basis.

“Over the last 10 years, passenger vehicle death rate per 100,000,000 passenger miles was over 20 times higher than for buses, 17 times higher than for passenger trains, and 595 times higher than for scheduled airlines.”

https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/home-and-community/safety-topics/deaths-by-transportation-mode/


I mean, duh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Purple Line will be slower than existing rail service from Silver Spring to College Park. You think that because it’s not a bus that makes it okay and not a colossal waste of money?

For all of the most obvious use cases, it will either be the same or slower than existing transit. What’s the point of this thing?

The most obvious use case, in fact the original use case, is Bethesda-Silver Spring. 8.9 minutes on the Purple Line, 21 minutes (or more, depending on traffic) on the J2 bus.

11 Billion dollars to take a few thousand people per day 4 miles 12 minutes faster.

Just wait 'til you hear about highway projects!

Actually, there is a highway project nearby that provides a great competitor.

MD-200 aka the ICC is 29 miles, cost $2.4 billion to build, serves 35 million vehicles per year and generates over $60 million per year in revenue which means that the capital costs will be paid off in 20 years.

There will never be a transit project that is anywhere close to this successful.

So please tell me more about highway projects.

Well, yes, if "success" for you means more vehicle miles traveled, more crashes, more deaths, and more debt for the state of Maryland. That's not how I measure success, though.

Nice goalpost moving. However, since you made the claim, please provide data that the ICC is less safe than alternatives on a per trip or per mile travelled basis.

“Over the last 10 years, passenger vehicle death rate per 100,000,000 passenger miles was over 20 times higher than for buses, 17 times higher than for passenger trains, and 595 times higher than for scheduled airlines.”

https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/home-and-community/safety-topics/deaths-by-transportation-mode/


I mean, duh.

That’s not the ICC. Try again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Purple Line will be slower than existing rail service from Silver Spring to College Park. You think that because it’s not a bus that makes it okay and not a colossal waste of money?

For all of the most obvious use cases, it will either be the same or slower than existing transit. What’s the point of this thing?

The most obvious use case, in fact the original use case, is Bethesda-Silver Spring. 8.9 minutes on the Purple Line, 21 minutes (or more, depending on traffic) on the J2 bus.

11 Billion dollars to take a few thousand people per day 4 miles 12 minutes faster.

Just wait 'til you hear about highway projects!

Actually, there is a highway project nearby that provides a great competitor.

MD-200 aka the ICC is 29 miles, cost $2.4 billion to build, serves 35 million vehicles per year and generates over $60 million per year in revenue which means that the capital costs will be paid off in 20 years.

There will never be a transit project that is anywhere close to this successful.

So please tell me more about highway projects.

There are people in my friend group that are anti rail transit and pro highway. But I always point out that DC would be a much less attractive and livable city if the spaghetti network of freeways was built over the city, demolishing the historic rowhouse neighborhoods and towns like Takoma Park that we all enjoy today. Instead we have Metro, while not perfect it has brought numerous economic benefits to the city, including the revitalization and beautification of commercial streets like 14th.

Over the long term perhaps the Purple Line will revitalize communities like Langley Park. Already the historic neon Flower Theater Marquee was restored in anticipation of the Purple Line. I don’t expect fast suburb to suburb RER type service (Paris), but it will still serve as a vital connection between neighborhoods along the route, spurring economic development.

The purple line had limited transit utility because it’s slower and less convenient than driving. So it’s unlikely that it will transform anywhere significantly. However, the best case for Purple Line transformation is probably downtown Silver Spring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Purple Line will be slower than existing rail service from Silver Spring to College Park. You think that because it’s not a bus that makes it okay and not a colossal waste of money?

For all of the most obvious use cases, it will either be the same or slower than existing transit. What’s the point of this thing?

The most obvious use case, in fact the original use case, is Bethesda-Silver Spring. 8.9 minutes on the Purple Line, 21 minutes (or more, depending on traffic) on the J2 bus.

11 Billion dollars to take a few thousand people per day 4 miles 12 minutes faster.

Just wait 'til you hear about highway projects!

Actually, there is a highway project nearby that provides a great competitor.

MD-200 aka the ICC is 29 miles, cost $2.4 billion to build, serves 35 million vehicles per year and generates over $60 million per year in revenue which means that the capital costs will be paid off in 20 years.

There will never be a transit project that is anywhere close to this successful.

So please tell me more about highway projects.

There are people in my friend group that are anti rail transit and pro highway. But I always point out that DC would be a much less attractive and livable city if the spaghetti network of freeways was built over the city, demolishing the historic rowhouse neighborhoods and towns like Takoma Park that we all enjoy today. Instead we have Metro, while not perfect it has brought numerous economic benefits to the city, including the revitalization and beautification of commercial streets like 14th.

Over the long term perhaps the Purple Line will revitalize communities like Langley Park. Already the historic neon Flower Theater Marquee was restored in anticipation of the Purple Line. I don’t expect fast suburb to suburb RER type service (Paris), but it will still serve as a vital connection between neighborhoods along the route, spurring economic development.

The purple line had limited transit utility because it’s slower and less convenient than driving. So it’s unlikely that it will transform anywhere significantly. However, the best case for Purple Line transformation is probably downtown Silver Spring.

UMD students will probably ride it to the Green Line Metro station (or maybe as far as the Amtrak station at New Carrollton). It’ll probably help Silver Spring, especially since it runs in its own right of way between Bethesda and Silver Spring. Since so much money is going into the Purple Line project, I do hope we’ll see some economic benefits.

I’m glad DC’s metro was built as a subway and not some other slower, surface mode. While there are no express trains or tracks, it is still convenient and useful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:11 billion dollars for a train as slow as a bus!

I mean, it's not.

But yes, the Purple Line should have cost much, much, much less. And it would have cost much, much, much less, if not for

1. the ICC
2. Robert Ehrlich's delays
3. lobbying by the Columbia Country Club and the Town of Chevy Chase
4. frivolous lawsuits by Chevy Chase residents
5. an objectively terrible judge who sat on one of the frivolous lawsuits
6. Larry Hogan's gross mismanagement

Opponents of the Purple Line have only themselves to blame for the high cost of the Purple Line.

The Purple Line has several at grade crossings. So yes, it’s just a glorified bus that is a waste of dedicated right of way.

Blaming the ICC, which is the model for highway projects, for the Purple Line cost escalation is hilarious.

I note that you leave out O’Malley, MDOT and proponents who also have a lot to answer for.

- Extending the Purple Line to New Carrollton for no obvious reason is a massive waste of money that proponents demanded. It should have never extended beyond College Park. Billions upon billions wasted on superfluous land acquisition, track, additional stations, moving utilities, and additional rolling stock for no obvious reason. Additionally, the number of stations in PG County is ludicrous and significantly increases travel times.

- Using a bogus ridership projections to justify light rail over BRT due to increased O&M for buses at those ludicrous levels of utilization is another major factor that has delayed the project and escalated costs. Ridership projections never supported the additional capital cost for light rail until O’Malley and MDOT asked the consultants to take another look and miraculously new projections were produced that were ludicrous on their face and to this day neither the raw data nor model have been released because MDOT claims that it’s proprietary. They claim, with a straight face, that it will net 75,000 per day that won’t cannibalize existing transit ridership.

Whatever costs you attribute to “NIMBYs” delays and project management don’t hold a candle to cost escalation that Maryland political corruption added to the project.